While if find run selling cancerous, I think the cancerous party is the people buying the raid. I cannot fathom why you'd want to wear a skin/title that serves solely to show you've completed something that you haven't. Your suggestions are all horrible though. Just avoid guilds that sell runs, simple as that

beadabow wrote: »

Unfortunately for you, my friend, you have been running with a bad crowd. On a brighter note, your past experiences will help you to choose your friends more wisely in future. If I were in a guild or a group of people like that, I would not turn and walk away, I would run.

I have encountered genuinely good people in my playing experiences over the years, and nothing, I mean NOTHING in this game matters to me more than honesty, integrity, and good-hearted fun. I can be cordial with egotists, but that's about the extent of it. For all I care, they can have everything this game has to offer, but they will never have my respect or friendship. Only a few players can earn that.

Point in case, I just joined a guild a week ago, left it two nights ago after the first vet trial run (a five day membership, lol!). I could tell the chemistry wasn't there, and one of the players in the vet trial run obviously had some toxicity issues that, though not directed at me for that run, would eventually come my way if I remained in the guild. I have no time and no patience for that kind of behavior. And the fact that the the guild leader allowed that player to remain, despite guild ground rules of no bullying or swearing, told me their policies meant nothing, and were not enforced.

nordmarian wrote: »

1- Friends get split into different teams, or leave you behind;
3- People don't help each other any longer, let alone people less experienced or whom never done certain content before;
4- People aren't as willing to teach nor learn trials anymore;
5- People don't have patience anymore and leaves groups at first wipe or second, often causing tension or the whole group to disband, wasting others times;
6- People are less willing to do random raids and more oriented towards earning easy money;

I think part of your problem, from what I read in this thread, is that you have a bad rep (I'm not saying that it's fair or not, idk you nor the fact about this drama), which make people don't want to help you.

I still see open runs of vCR+, vSS, vAS+ and vMoL HM quite frequently within the guilds and discords channels I'm in. Some are farm runs and some are open prog runs. And they still filled with a mix of people who need nothing and just there for fun, and people who're trying to get 1st clear. HoF is harder to find because it's too damn long, most trash pulls are boring, and drop nothing worth the time.

But I have noticed, and also guilty myself, that people like to play with people around their skill "bracket". I'm not a raid lead but I do help people learn 4 man dungeons for one of my guilds sometimes. If a cp600 dps who pull 30k 6mil and hasn't beat vMA asks me to help with vFL HM, I would refuse. I don't want to waste 400 potions and 4 hours stuck in there and still can't clear it. But if he's a cp400 dps who pull 40k without MA/Master weapon, beat vMA multiple times with only 2-3 deaths, I would help him learn vFL HM. We might wipe 6-7 times, but I know he has dps and awareness to get it. I think the same apply to trials. People don't want to waste time with a clearly hopeless group.

How can you learn if better players don't want to play with you? Well in my case, I play with people in my "bracket". It took me 2 years, countless open runs that end in disaster, many prog groups that disbanded after 5 months because they couldn't clear the content and people just got tired or real-life issues and dropped out, to get where I am today. I'm not top 1% God Slayer yet, but at least I can sign up for vCR+3 or vAS+2 open run and people won't turn their back to me anymore. Even though those disasters and disbanded groups couldn't get me the achievements but they gave me the skills and experience.

It also has to do with building a "network", you know, knowing a guy who know a guy. I think it started to get better for me after a guy in one of my disbanded prog group think I did good in that group and inv me to a disc of "higher bracket". I ran with them a few times, then they, in turn, invited me to other discords... and so on.

People would help you if you are just 1 or 2 "levels" under their "bracket" but if you are somewhere 4-5 levels below then you have to work yourself up first.

nordmarian wrote: »

2- Friends get lured, tricked and deceived into joining such teams;
7- People get hungry for power, money and control;

I have never seen this problem. I think you are trying to make this sound worse. If I join a run without knowing its a carry run I join with my own reason, be it the loots (and I'll well damn keep those, unless the price they offer later is tempting enough), or experience or fun. I'm not "lured, tricked or deceived". I got what I expected from that run, and I didn't expected to be paid.

nordmarian wrote: »

8- People get to clear some content the easy way while others whom worked hard over the years are often left behind or forgotten;
10- Promote bragging and other negative behavior;
11- People lie about their content experience;
12- People trick and lure others into thinking they are better than others by buying carries in a new content as soon as it got released.

With log now, it's easy to see who's not up to the standard. And good luck finding your place in the endgame community when you have bad rep, as you yourself had made it cleared in this thread.

nordmarian wrote: »

14- People are less willing to complete for scores, learn, try or experiment new mechanics;
15- Often people get bored and leave the game after clearing some content for few thousands of times in a relatively short time;
16- Drive other people into leaving the raid scene after they obtain their carried loot and sooner or later out of the game;

Those who buy achievements just for the cosmetic (skin, tittle, pets...), if not buying, still don't care about score and learning mechanic. They are not into hardcore pve. They just want to roleplay, build houses, or pvp...
Those who buy achievement to get into groups still need to learn mech if they hope people to believe.
Those who brag: why would you care?
People leave game for all kind of reasons. Take too long to get gear -> tired -> leave. Get gear too quick -> bored -> leave. If they're burned out they will leave, getting gears faster or slower have very little to do with it, trust me. At least that's what happened to me and people I've seen over 6 years playing this game, and a few other MMOs before that.

for OP. M8, u have serious problems if a video game can trigger u such. Why do u care of cyberbulling or dramas beats me completly, your life does not depend at all from it. Or maybe it does?!. Maybe u should see a therapist.

chetter_hummin wrote: »

for OP. M8, u have serious problems if a video game can trigger u such. Why do u care of cyberbulling or dramas beats me completly, your life does not depend at all from it. Or maybe it does?!. Maybe u should see a therapist.

I don't want to sound hars but maybe this one is in a wheel chair.

nordmarian wrote: »

chetter_hummin wrote: »

for OP. M8, u have serious problems if a video game can trigger u such. Why do u care of cyberbulling or dramas beats me completly, your life does not depend at all from it. Or maybe it does?!. Maybe u should see a therapist.

I don't want to sound hars but maybe this one is in a wheel chair.

What does it have to do with the whole matter ?
When playing ESO we're all obviously sitting on chairs or sofas, wheels or not wheels.
If, following your own declarations, you're still re-hashing and psychologically suffering from stuff that happened more than THREE YEARS AGO, and still haven't found a way over or around it, then yes, you should consider other options, including help.

Raisin wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

Anyway, we should stop use "drama" word for anything, everytime ; stalked girls, girls who cannot play and have healthy relations, or just "normal" ones, with their guildies just because they're girls, girls needing to put herselves on offline mode to can play peacefully, is not a "drama" ; it's an issue.
Naming it as a drama is just fueling the feeling that, well, they're not really victims you know... everyone knows girls like dramas.. etc

Nordmarian, while mentioning an awful lot of things, never mentioned anything related to gender-specific harassment. You're adding that to the pot now, in a very sneaky way.

I'll not start a debate as to what deserves to be called a real issue vs. what deserves to be called "drama" in a trivial way, but I'll say this : in the context of an online video game, anyone who pretends to be prevented from playing by sexist behaviours is making it up. The game has enough blocking options, and there are more than enough nice guilds out there to play safely.

A LOT of posts in here have been deleted on this topic. The person you're quoting cleared up a lot of nord's claims earlier in the thread; they are a guild master that had to deal with this stuff and kicked Nord for their behavior. Nord themselves has argued that what they did to the girls in question wasn't harassment from their POV, and we don't know the truth, but that the issue itself happened was admitted by both parties a while ago. I wouldn't quote any posts in this thread from before a ZOS member posted, because half of the context is missing now.

Hmm, you're right I forgot that the thread has been reviewed. And I haven't read what was removed. My apologies.

Again derailing from topic:

Well maybe I'm also talking with some dudes too but they don't "trash talk" that much. Lets stop speculate on something you weren't directly involved. Truth is some individuals do tend to shout out loud when they feel harassed even by some minor incident, or don't like someone player skills, then talk you into the community. It would be much more helpful for this community that when they do met such people, they should point them into the right direction. If their attitude is less than desirable having a talk might help them improve, or explaining to them in a polite way that they are doing something wrong or that their guilds are focusing on raiding and not socializing and people don't like that. Not everyone was born in a MMO, some ppl are entirely new. Same goes for someone skills. Everyone shout loud and clear that X is bad but how many actually tried to help this X out?

It is well known that girls often tend to pick up guys and be nice to them in order to achieve something and once they get there they ditch them. Also in most of the cases if they don't get what they want they also tend to cause a lot of drama around.

The way I see it? This girl whom everyone accused me of stalking, might switched servers in order to sabotage our raiding community, learn our tactics and sell or give them to the competitors. Or she simply tried to use me and my connections to get the easy way up to the end game scene and as soon as she got what she wanted I got pushed behind in a more or less nice manner. She also broke my role playing experience with one character after she no longer continued to quest with me. And she made 2 guilds disband. Enough? I was told that she was using me but I did picked a fight with all those people because I didn't believed nor wanted to accept it. She probably was trash talking me everywhere among some of her friends!

And her friend whom also caused me drama wanted to be an GM in MY guild after we decided to merge our guilds. I backed off but he did went ahead with the guild merging process but only ended up with a similar name as I did not disbanded mine. He also tried to get the easy way and befriended GMs and Officers in multiple guilds for reason only him knew and he was sticking his nose where he didn't belonged. When me and him had to start some misunderstandings I was quickly removed from his community on several occasions despite my friends inviting me there for raids in which he wasn't even part of. He also removed me as a sub officer from a pve guild despite the fact an officer and a friend of mine invited me there, then I immediately got blocked by GM. Next he come into a raid guild I was into and when I told my GM that me and him got some bad history and I would prefer to not have him there, I was called names and pushed out. How do you find that one fair? Also those people went further and banned me in several trading guilds as well. Speaking about people taking things too personal and too far.

As for "playing the victim part" You want pictures? You guys make me sick!

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

beadabow wrote: »

Point in case, I just joined a guild a week ago, left it two nights ago after the first vet trial run (a five day membership, lol!). I could tell the chemistry wasn't there, and one of the players in the vet trial run obviously had some toxicity issues that, though not directed at me for that run, would eventually come my way if I remained in the guild. I have no time and no patience for that kind of behavior. And the fact that the the guild leader allowed that player to remain, despite guild ground rules of no bullying or swearing, told me their policies meant nothing, and were not enforced.

^^This.
You did the right thing, as the vast majority of healthy people would do.
Anyone who stays in such situation and prefers to complain about others rather than making the effort of finding a more suitable social environment for themselves are just drama queens who, to a certain extent, enjoy being victims.
Blaming "others", and beyond that, in-game mechanics is just another asset for more drama.

It gets rough when that moment comes later. Had some messy guild drama with a couple people last year because, we'd been raiding for them for five or six months, before we started getting inklings that something wasn't quite right.

So, congrats on dodging that bullet, @beadabow.

Imo they should just put all the skins on the store.

I won't deny that I dislike it as a practice, but I also get why people do it, especially as raiding isn't cheap when you are min-maxing. I am at a point where I just accept and tolerate it because it doesn't affect me. I run with a small guild whenever I raid, so when people have bought their achievements but don't have the skill it quickly comes out in the wash. If they want the cosmetics, I don't care. If they want it to get into top raid groups, they'll either sink or swim pretty fast.

nordmarian wrote: »

Lets stop speculate on something you weren't directly involved.

... then how about you stop indirectly involving us in your stories, by repeating it over and over in multiple threads ?
So you made enemies in the game ? So have I, so have we all. So you made friends in the game ? So have I, so have we all. So, some of those friends didn't remain your friends, some betrayed you, some became enemies, some ignored you ? While you made new friends ? So your gang/group/guild has evolved over time ? The atmosphere has changed ? For better ? For worse ? So your guild has merged/disbanded/was taken over ?
It has happened to me, too, it has happened to all of us. Online, in games, in real life. It happens in schools, in offices, in companies, in all kinds of groups. It's called socializing. It has its pros and its cons like everything else, and things are rarely granted or forever, like everything else in life.

Of course, competitive environments are more vulnerable to problems, but nonetheless, I 'm sure it happens in Second Life, Minecraft and The Sims, too.

You're only making things worse for yourself by making a fuss about it so publicly and after such a long time, and by blaming every possible game mechanic for it. People that you don't like or don't like you should be avoided, people whom you like or who like you should be taken care of, and you should keep an open mind for everyone in order to meet new people and make new friends. That's all it takes.

nordmarian wrote: »

It is well known that girls often tend to pick up guys and be nice to them in order to achieve something and once they get there they ditch them. Also in most of the cases if they don't get what they want they also tend to cause a lot of drama around.

... and you should avoid such sexist, blanket statements. Those won't get you neither friends nor sympathy.

You guys are aware that some of those so called trash lists are also situated in the public space right? Those are real people there with real names and real life whom they are targeted and being turned into a target. Naming and shaming in public is what made me end here first. And learn the story from all parties involved before taking a conclusion and judging someone. Just judging someone who said something bad about you whom just as well might do have something personal with you and not hearing or wanting to hear the other party involved story do leave me really cold. Sorry to say it.

Also using your influence in the community against someone who you had or have a personal problem is also called abuse of power.

nordmarian wrote: »

You guys are aware that some of those so called trash lists are also situated in the public space right? Those are real people there with real names and real life whom they are targeted and being turned into a target.

This is an unfounded conspiracy theory. There are no @IDs of players listed anywhere public for being named and shamed, let alone real names.