Veteran content Loot / Skin / Achievement Sales problem

drkfrontiers

I find this practice as unethical as the guy that spies on my drops during raids .. then sends me shame tells if I am going to be needing something...

nordmarian

It is also unethical to turn a threat into a personal attack towards someone, even towards OP instead of focusing ON the given facts and ON the topic.

anitajoneb17_ESO

nordmarian wrote: »

It is also unethical to turn a threat into a personal attack towards someone, even towards OP instead of focusing ON the given facts and ON the topic.

Facts ? What facts ? Your one-sided and very confused version of drama that happened years ago ?
Topic ? What topic ? The topic of ingame systems and possibilities that you pretend to be the cause of the so-called "facts"... ? And that you seem to be unable to consider under a different light or point of view but your own personal unhappy experience from years ago... ?

LadyNalcarya

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nordmarian wrote: »

chetter_hummin wrote: »

for OP. M8, u have serious problems if a video game can trigger u such. Why do u care of cyberbulling or dramas beats me completly, your life does not depend at all from it. Or maybe it does?!. Maybe u should see a therapist.

I don't want to sound hars but maybe this one is in a wheel chair.

What does it have to do with the whole matter ?
When playing ESO we're all obviously sitting on chairs or sofas, wheels or not wheels.
If, following your own declarations, you're still re-hashing and psychologically suffering from stuff that happened more than THREE YEARS AGO, and still haven't found a way over or around it, then yes, you should consider other options, including help.

This, pretty much.
There's no shame in seeking psychological help, especially if something is bothering you for years.
Making the game more grindy for everyone is not going to solve OP's problems, simply because they're rooted in his relationships with other players.

solasub

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

. The game has enough blocking options, and there are more than enough nice guilds out there to play safely.

yes indeed ; nice guilds kicking the player involved ; that is simple. If someone is complaining about unfair kicks, perhaps bringing some light about the real reason of kicks will avoid to spread lies and insults about "toxicity" of a community who only protected some women players after trying a lot of others solutions.

(or do you mean that those women should have left themselves their groups to join "another nice guilds"? so the harassed are the ones who need to leave? That is a quite strange point of view)

anitajoneb17_ESO

solasub wrote: »

(or do you mean that those women should have left themselves their groups to join "another nice guilds"? so the harassed are the ones who need to leave? That is a quite strange point of view)

No, what I'm saying is that IF you had not stepped up to clear the situation yourself as a GM, those players still could have and should have left for warmer sands.
I believe you did the right thing, but many GMs aren't any good at managing people or dealing with groups, would accuse the victims of being the troublemakers, priviledge their friends over any sense of justice, whatever. There are many reasons why a GM would not step up in such situations, and in such a case, the victims are still free to leave. Sure, it sounds unfair that "victims have to leave" but looking at the bigger picture, they'll be better off in a guild with a GM like you than with a GM that does nothing in such situations.

Noone is ever stuck in a harassment situation in a video game like they can be in real life with a job, a harassing colleague, a spouse who's become violent, stuff like that. I'm not minimizing what people may experience in an online gaming community, but imo comparing it to real harassment is actually minimizing real harassment situations where the victims are truly helpless. Noone is helpless in ESO, there's an easy way out. That's what I meant.

hasi

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

hasi wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I think it's really interesting that more people aren't upset by these title-and-loot selling runs. Basically people are trading gold for a title or special loot, right?

But if ZOS put those special loots in the Crown Store and made them giftable (so there's a way to get them through gold), I think there'd be complaints.
If they put the TITLEs in the Crown Store the forum would have a meltdown. And yet players are basically doing it.

Because Crown Store is straight up available to everyone. Someone, who just started the Game, could easily buy said Skin or Title etc. They'd lose in value by A LOT.

Also, why would anyone run Trials/Dungeons if they can simply straight up buy the Skin or whatever? At least now you need a good group, a group that put efforts in to be able to carry others.

I dunno. A purchase is still a purchase. Still sounds like a double-standard against ZOS, maybe because people don't like to see ZOS making money. It'd be like Maelstrom style pages -- either get them yourself, buy them off players (similar to getting a carry), or buy them from ZOS.

If you mean a title would lose MEANING yes for sure buying it would lose meaning. But that's what players are doing now.

Players buying Titles makes them lose meaning, yes, indeed. But having a handful of People being able to buy something via Gold and the possibility of everyone being able to buy every title/skin via Money/Crowns. There is quite a measure difference.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Paid carries are crap to me. I will never pay for an achivement carry, and don't allow it in groups I lead. However, ZOS will never be able to stamp out the problem. From the game's standpoint, you "earned" that titlte, even if you just subbed in on the last boss.

My issue with the raiding community is what you describe: toxicity. Some players get lucky and have someone teach them content, and stay in core groups. Others can't even get in if they are good, because of "reasons." (not L2P) I'm starting my own trials group (again) because the small raiding community here is overall, very toxic.

In before "well here's my story of how I was a complete noob and someone took me in"... that's great for you. Not everyone gets that chance. Even when we've been playing for 5 years.

Jem_Kindheart

solasub wrote: »

OMG yes, that is certainly not the whole story.....[...]......some of those kicks were brought by many girls players complains ; in every groups ; many times ; even after being warned.

I knew it had to be something like this. I've had significant experience with stalkers and sexual harassment in eso sadly, almost every time the abuser tries to reframe themselves as innocent. If you ignore them awhile they usually bugger off. I've still never even bothered reporting anyone, who has time for dat lol. Just a week ago some new join was in the guild for a couple hours and was already saying in guild chat how he wants to wrap fishnet stockings around my neck while doing other things lmao. He lasted about a day.

Back to the OP grievances, idk buddy, find new guilds, make new friends, change your @ name, start over with a clean slate and just do the things. Not harassing female players would help on this new chapter of your eso life. If you're a good tank, your abilities will speak for themselves. Or healer or dps or whatever. Show up to the raids and do the things lol. My healing speaks for itself, I don't even wear the skins lol 99% of the time. If you want to rp or erp, there's apparently guilds/places for that. No need to bring it into your trial raid life.

I've been here since beta too and really don't see this toxicity you describe often at alllllll. If ever, it's lil jokey jabs on runs maybe just in good humor. I don't think that's toxic. Maybe I have thick skin after being in the military but I just don't see it. There's definitely a need for higher performers to be allotted slots on higher end teams, that's the nature of it. In fact moreso for tanks and healers. You can have one or two trash dps, tanks and healers have to be very high performance, it's just not optional. Join a new more relaxed guild. If nothing else, I'd stop carrying this heavy backpack of long past drama around with you, that's not good for ya bud.

Dusk_Coven

hasi wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

It'd be like Maelstrom style pages -- either get them yourself, buy them off players (similar to getting a carry), or buy them from ZOS.

Players buying Titles makes them lose meaning, yes, indeed. But having a handful of People being able to buy something via Gold and the possibility of everyone being able to buy every title/skin via Money/Crowns. There is quite a measure difference.

ZOS hasn't sold titles yet, so that's moot for now. But Maelstrom style pages -- they are fine for ZOS to sell but skins from trials are not? Is that splitting hairs? Someone had to spend at least an hour of their life to grind out that one page but ZOS was selling them in the event store, which also basically means they were Crown-purchasable.
As for difficulty --if someone could grind out a bunch of Maelstrom pages, it means it was easy enough for them. Same as for these vet trial groups: It'd have to be basically a sure thing that came from doing it over and over.

In both cases, it's people unwilling or unable to do the content but wanting the same rewards. And in one case we let ZOS sell the rewards but we're gonna be upset if we let them do the other?

As for Titles -- is wearing a Maelstrom style you didn't personally earn not like wearing a title you didn't personally earn?

Still seems like ZOS is getting the double standard treatment based on precedents.

hasi

nordmarian wrote: »

It is well known that girls often tend to pick up guys and be nice to them in order to achieve something and once they get there they ditch them. Also in most of the cases if they don't get what they want they also tend to cause a lot of drama around.

Are you for real?
Honestly, I will keep myself out of further "personal" discussions like I did before, BUT you sound EXACTLY like my first ESO friend.

A man, who was 10 years older than I was, with me being underage. We came along pretty well at the start, until he decided to start arguments over my Playstyle etc. on a daily basis, later on adding insults, based on my origin and gender.

When I decided to leave him, he claimed that I had used him, stolen his stuff. He was salty and needy.
In private he created fake Accounts though, so he could text me, beg for forgiveness and stalk me.

Blocked and blocked.

Years later he asked me to help him out(again via an fake Account), as he apparently saw me ingame while I was AFK. Said he changed and that he needed X Role for a Skin Run. I said "No.", because I didn't have said Role and obviously would never help/play with such a Person again.
He showed his true side afterwards, saying exactly what you just said. "Girls can't achieve anything themselves, they need to manipulate men to get them what they want. You are all ***."

Funny. You might just be like him.🙃

solasub

nordmarian wrote: »

It is well known that girls often tend to pick up guys and be nice to them in order to achieve something and once they get there they ditch them. Also in most of the cases if they don't get what they want they also tend to cause a lot of drama around.

here we are ; the real face
Again, forum is not the place for it ; so many people had testimonies about how they had to react / protect many girls. There was not only one girl ; and even if ; You should really keep that Pandora box closed, for your own sake.
And yes, that's mostly the issue. A girl telling "hi" in a group chat 1) has no ambiguous behavior 2) most likely, is not in the purpose to trade you favors against imaginary needed help 3) will certainly harshly react when she will discover that you had in mind, and asking to get the favors you wait ; and cause "drama" in your weird point of view
She is just telling "hi!"

SquawkTheMajestic

I sell dungeon carries to help people get their monster sets, speed runs, achievements, and skins. And while you'll occasionally see some hater in zone chat or here on the forums, here is my experience as a guy who goes through every zone posting my 'pitch':

1) Many people, at least once a day, just message me to tell me they think what I'm doing is awesome. They like the entrepreneurial spirit, or they say what we're doing seems very valuable and helpful for people who couldn't get access. This sounds like a crafted statement from my PR team, but I get these messages all the time.

2) We have happy customers. People who are really excited for a certain build but know they aren't quite skilled enough to pull their own weight on a tough dungeon.

3) We have very TALENTED players who simply don't have access to a guild to build a reliable group, or they just want a guaranteed success rate by some guys who can work all the mechanics so they can just DPS and enjoy the dungeon.

4) People hire us for many reasons. Lots of pvpers who don't care about PVE and just want to finish their build. Some are traders with lots of money. They focused on that part of the game and we focused on another.

5) I do these runs for guildies without charging them. There isn't much difference in choosing to help guildmates by "carrying" them or choosing to help a stranger for some gold they have no problems parting with. If someone tells me the price sounds steep, I let them know it may not be the best use of their money, and give them some optional monster sets they can get more easily. I'm not looking to bleed anyone dry.

6) Last, but not least, I have never sold a run to a person who said "i wanted the achievement/pet/skin so i could pretend I worked for it and flex even though I'll know I never did anything to get it." In fact, most of them will refer other people to us, which means they have no problems saying "I know a few guys who will help you get your Zaan's in like 35 minutes!"

This battle isn't being fought in the real game. It's forum whining, and it's people who don't want to buy a carry and don't have the money who seem most upset by this. It's an obviously useful service, because we stay VERY busy and have to schedule people days in advance (especially with all the vDSA madness now!). OP is describing a really messed up situation where he was mistreated but decided to stay and let video game people be mean to him for years. This sounds like an odd choice, and either he wasn't treated very poorly or he made it clear he's happy with the trade-off. He made his choice, and every single day of his life he could have chosen to walk away and go join a different guild. Instead, he stayed for years and came here to cry to everyone who would listen. This game works great when people self-govern and play the kind of content they want. If you only want an achievement you feel like you truly earned, kudos to you. But consider this: Sometimes you queue up as dps for a DLC vet dungeon, and you know you got carried. Every now and then, a stellar tank comes on, the other DPS is doing twice your numbers, and while you might feel like you're better than all the people who simply paid for their runs, you almost never get to claim 100% of a group-based achievement in this game.

Basically, your individual opinions on carry services don't matter. As long as people want them and people are willing to do them, they're going to exist and I don't think that should be an issue. The first time I saw a guy advertising for them, I counted my pennies to see if I could afford a run. It seemed like a good exchange of my time/gold, the same way some people buy crowns and others sell them.

Be nice to folks. Lots of great people play this game.

hasi

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

hasi wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

It'd be like Maelstrom style pages -- either get them yourself, buy them off players (similar to getting a carry), or buy them from ZOS.

Players buying Titles makes them lose meaning, yes, indeed. But having a handful of People being able to buy something via Gold and the possibility of everyone being able to buy every title/skin via Money/Crowns. There is quite a measure difference.

ZOS hasn't sold titles yet, so that's moot for now. But Maelstrom style pages -- they are fine for ZOS to sell but skins from trials are not? Is that splitting hairs? Someone had to spend at least an hour of their life to grind out that one page but ZOS was selling them in the event store, which also basically means they were Crown-purchasable.
As for difficulty --if someone could grind out a bunch of Maelstrom pages, it means it was easy enough for them. Same as for these vet trial groups: It'd have to be basically a sure thing that came from doing it over and over.

In both cases, it's people unwilling or unable to do the content but wanting the same rewards. And in one case we let ZOS sell the rewards but we're gonna be upset if we let them do the other?

As for Titles -- is wearing a Maelstrom style you didn't personally earn not like wearing a title you didn't personally earn?

Still seems like ZOS is getting the double standard treatment based on precedents.

Maelstrom Style Pages wouldn't be the first, you know. Raid Motifs or Overland Motifs(from Dailies for example) are sold in the Crown Store too while being available ingame.

Also, I don't understand your arguments. A motif doesn't have the worth of a Skin or a Title. You are putting Trial Achievments, where People had to coordinate themselves for, communicate, practice for Ages, against Motifs, that you could earn via Event Activities.

And there were several Event Activities to get Maelstrom Style Pages, not just the one you limited them to.

CaffeinatedMayhem

SquawkTheMajestic wrote: »

5) I do these runs for guildies without charging them.

*spits out coffee* Then what do you call advertising your PAID runs in guild chat and Discord??? Only once have you said "I won't charge you guys" - in a private Discord channel, that most of the guild doesn't see. You also charge guildies for bites. I've seen you do it.

Jem_Kindheart

Heck, my guildies have a couple teams I'm on, we've gotten vSS and vMoL down to where we can bring in random guildies in for their very first time ever in those trials and get them cleared, sometimes two at a time. We wouldn't dream of charging guildies for that, and the road to get there was long and expensive lol. I think I spent 14 weeks trying to clear vSS the first time oof. Hodor would roll his eyes at that lol. The previous team spent months on vMoL. Not everyone has that time or will, or ability idk. Now, if someone else is just in the right place at the right time, and gets the clear without spending the time I or others did, I don't really care. It doesn't detract from me. If someone pays some other guild for it, idc either. Doesn't affect me and it's not my business.

There's tons of reasons, we have disabled players who maybe want the skin to look cool. Idk, I think most skins are uuuuuugly. Some are just roleplayers, fine. There's tons of reasons to buy runs.

I don't think it's unethical, but then again I can do the content. Buying runs at this point would just be to save time. In other people's cases, it's still not going to make a mediocre player suddenly amazing. That 1000 extra mag/stam from perfected is kinda big meh.

St_Anger

nordmarian wrote: »

- People who earned some achievements fair cannot be distinguished anymore from people who bought their ways towards top.

This can be a real problem in endgame raiding. If someone has no clue/dps it is pretty easy to see that they bought it, but often it is much harder to realize, because the people are not bad per se, but just not good enaugh to clear this content. So often it takes weeks or months until it is clear, that this person did not work their way through it and is just not good enaugh for the group they just joined.

But I don't share most of your experience, and to be honest, it sounds like you were mostly playing with a bunch of purpose community guys instead of friends.

LadyNalcarya

nordmarian wrote: »

It is well known that girls often tend to pick up guys and be nice to them in order to achieve something and once they get there they ditch them. Also in most of the cases if they don't get what they want they also tend to cause a lot of drama around.

Citation needed.
If that's what you think of your fellow guildmates, perhaps that might be the reason why they don't like you.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Elwendryll

Too specific options. I start reading some of them "This might be ok" and then it ends by "It should stop".

Your poll is biased because it heavily express your opinion.

Now, I think these practices are a bit shady. Whenever I see an advertisement in chat I feel a bit of disapproval. But, other than that, the disapproval is not toward the people selling the run. They are skilled enough to pull that off, they can do whatever they want.

I do, on the other hand, find it a bit dishonest to buy runs, because it's knowingly devaluing a reward by getting it without any form of merit. But I can totally understand people who would do that. The rewards are very cool, and not everyone has the skill or time to progress.

I think this practice is totally okay as long as all parties are willingly taking part in the exchange and there is no scam.

By the look of it, you were with a very toxic team. I don't have any similar experience and I have no idea how widespread this kind of mindset can be.

There is one thing I 100% agree on. The difficulty/length to reward ratio is not satisfying. The old trials lack perfected gears, and there is no real incentive to go farm let's say vHoF when you can get better AND perfected gear by just running vSS.

nordmarian

Are you for real?
Honestly, I will keep myself out of further "personal" discussions like I did before, BUT you sound EXACTLY like my first ESO friend.

A man, who was 10 years older than I was, with me being underage. We came along pretty well at the start, until he decided to start arguments over my Playstyle etc. on a daily basis, later on adding insults, based on my origin and gender.

When I decided to leave him, he claimed that I had used him, stolen his stuff. He was salty and needy.
In private he created fake Accounts though, so he could text me, beg for ...............

Sorry to hear that. I did wanted to say that some people, girls or even guys pretending to be girls, got close to me and tried to trick me into giving them favors. Gold carries etc. If i was neutral or distanced myself they threatened me or talked me or simply ignored me. Same if they get what they wanted they put you behind and then call you names.

Also please keep in mind that in an argument there are always multiple sides of the story. The parties involved ones and the outsiders. Most people i dealt with only hear one side of the story and stop there and judge. They dont bother hearing all parties involved. Nor the whole story.

Also keep in mind that some people accousing me are not entirely innocent in this. They were right i might did something bad but they also served me injustice. For ex. Being removed from a team u like after months of progression in vhof and vmol just day before they cleared it then bragging in my face wasnt mature. That came due to player skills. Leading communication. Attitude. And honezt mistakest. I did overreact but also appologized.
On short blames in team which werent constructive lead to a fight and when approached some people from the team to hear their side thy became ignorant, took sides or stated harassment.
After hundreds of pugging vmol you do tend to become lazy or not play corectly a hardmode mechanic. Being told but not shown isnt constructive.

And there is also a very sad outcome about this story which we dont want to talk about. But it did impacted my reputation very bad.
Nothing personal. To those accusing me.

And yes some conflicts can easily being avoided if all parties involved can work together for a sollution but as i said in one previous post some gm instead of preventing a fight from happening they ignored the facts and then attacked me and went further and banned me from guilds we didnt even shared but were allied.

nordmarian

All i did was to point out towards some flaws and people pointed out quick towards my attitude or reputation or skills. I would like to talk about that. And those directly involved in a fight with me, i have no one on my block list and i really dont mind putting that behind. Why you? Those who heard stories same. If not for me or you do it for those innocents caught in between. Peace.

LadyNalcarya

nordmarian wrote: »

And there is also a very sad outcome about this story which we dont want to talk about. But it did impacted my reputation very bad.
Nothing personal. To those accusing me.

And yes some conflicts can easily being avoided if all parties involved can work together for a sollution but as i said in one previous post some gm instead of preventing a fight from happening they ignored the facts and then attacked me and went further and banned me from guilds we didnt even shared but were allied.

Well, the whole topic is about your troubled relationships with your guild/guilds. All of this has very little to do with selling carry runs. Even if ZOS would start banning for that, those guilds still won't invite you back, right?
The best you can do is to move on and try to avoid making the same mistakes. And if really bothers you, try talking to a psychologist. I don't mean it as an insult of something, this could really help. The current situation is just bad, regardless of who's right and who's wrong: living in the past won't make it any better.

nordmarian

Lets just go to the first post there where I did stated some problems... I don't mind if people sell carries or not but I do mind if those few individuals (not everyone) are creating drama towards others in the therm of not playing together anymore. I gave few facts. Others also tried to complete with. I am well aware that there are 10k guilds out there you can choose for but that is not the subject of this topic however.

Can you guys agree that paid carry runs for various reasons also got a lot of undesirable effects? Letting aside the advantage of helping others such as pvp players for example. Thanks.

MyPrist

Dear topic starter. All that you write is your and only your opinion. It is far from truth.

I can show you, that there are a lot of other reasons why or may be why not thingth were like it is now.

If you want it.

Just do not think that thingth that you wright are the main reason, why all is so bad. I think main reason is in you. Not becouse people sell or do not sell something.

Be a better person, and all be fine.

Wolfkeks

This is one of the weirdest conversations I entered...

So here are my tips for your situation nordmarian:

1. If guildies harras you, leave the guild and find another one. Is this a satisfying solution? No, of course not. But there is little you can do about it sadly. People will not just change because someone tells them to. Change comes from within. So either block them and move on or report them to ZOS for that specific behavior.
2. This behavior has nothing to do with carries. I have people in one of my guild who also sell carries and they're pretty chill.They get paid so they can afford doing the new trials on hm and another person gets a skin. Win Win for them.
3. This has also nothing to do with running the content multiple times to get a skin/personality. If I get a rune fragment for a skin rng based a lot of people will simply get nothing out of the content anymore. Imagine working on getting the poly morph in vAS and the rng is already terrible. Then I would look for fragments and never leave the place because I can't get the fragments or quit it. The endgame community is already small.
4. If someone belittles you because he thinks you brought a carry while you actually worked your ass off to get it. Ignore them. The problem is with them and not with you. Heck you will always encounter people in life with this attitude. But leave their attitude with them. If they have a problem they are the problem. There are over 13,5 Million players in ESO... if I would listen to everyone's opinion on a skin i wear... well...
5. Please refrain from blaming a certain group of people if you want to have a healthy conversation here. Like:

It is well known that girls often tend to pick up guys and be nice to them in order to achieve something and once they get there they ditch them. Also in most of the cases if they don't get what they want they also tend to cause a lot of drama around.

And to answer your last question:
Can you guys agree that paid carry runs for various reasons also got a lot of undesirable effects?

Nope. I play in the endgame community and I don't really care if someones gets their skin, personality, pet or polymorph because they brought a run. I don't have anything to prove to other people only myself and m team and I can clear that content so let them do it.

nordmarian

@MyPrist if you have something to say go ahead i dont mind.

MyPrist

nordmarian wrote: »

@MyPrist if you have something to say go ahead i dont mind.

I think that there is no dlc hm dunguan, exept frost vault, that can not easely be done, by only 2 people. So selling or not selling some thing from paid run is not a big problem. I am not on that level to close hm fang lair solo for example, but i saw how people do that. But i can do it easely with two of our team i play with. Like all dunguan in game.

I tank all veteran dlc dunguon on dd, i tank all of that on tank on hm. So this content is not really hard. And there were even those, who played better than me and do it solo.

Who do not let you try it? They did it, are others so bad, that they can not learn how to do it? I think that they do not.

A lot of players like this like to play random dunguans, and only dlc.
Do you know why ? Becouse it is much harder, than make it with statick group. And if it is harder people can upgrade their skills and play even better untill they can solo it.

If you play it often enough it is not problem to close any of 4 players skin or achivment.

But you will be kicked from there group as soon as :
1) You try to kick any 1 other member from party, for no reason.
2) You ask some other player play like you like if they do not. Alkosh for tank ? Ok no problem. Go tank in alkosh i will go on my dd than ?
What a problem ? Have no tank ? By by than. I want to finish dunguan with fun, not do some freak wants me to do with no reason giving me nothing for it.
3) You learn others what to do, if they do not ask your opinion.

I know a lot of players like this, not enough but they are.
They do veteran dlc naked, do not look alcast. "Alcast ? What ? Who is it? Do not say me any tacticks, i do not want spoilers, i want and i can do it myself. I do not need spoilers ! " - it is like reading book or tv show for them.

And they L2P and become better and better.

But for some people here L2P is something rood and bad.

May be it is, if you play really bad and want do nothing. May be it it is not, if you really try to learn.

The same for trials, a lot if them can easely be made by 8 people.

If you are not toxick, try do yor best - what is the problem than?

Not all people play well. If they learn it is not a problem, if they do not - than they take place of some one that can, and it is no place for them.

It is not metter are you better then some one or not.

Are you better today then you were yesterday. Only this thing metters.

If you do not learn, if you are toxic - people will not play with you.

If you play really bad and try, it us funny to play with you - thouse who can do instance solo will help some day even if you can not do it yourself one day.

But if you do not try = do not get.

What is a problem to buy anything from trial or dlc dunguon if you do not like that content? No problem

I and a lot of players do it not becouse of it. It is just fun !

Some times harder with random groups but even more fun. If they are not toxic.

If they are - they better buy and i hope i will never see them in party again.

Sinolai

I like raids being different in length and in my opinion vHoF is the best raid in this game. You can do vHoF if you have that time or if you dont you can go to cloudrest instead.
I have run in a few "carry sales runs" myself too but I don't really recognize any of the problems you listed, apart from "It is unfair to profit from players less experienced or with less time available". I do feel a light sting on my chest, especially when I notice the carry is not that bad player but he just lacks a team that is on the same level with him.

Regardless, in the group where I have been running, money has always been shared equally, though organizer gets a small bonus (and I think that is fair). Getting paid for doing a raid is nice but despite that most of us still also play in some progressive group. Those who dont are the people who already cleared everything in their own progressive groups and now only join occasionally for their own enjoyment. In my experience, you can never avoid drama and there is always someone who you don't like or who don't like you in the team but if you can tolerate each others for 2-3 hours a couple of times a week everything will go fine. True that raiding too much sometimes result to burn out but that has happened to me and many others even when we didn't do carries - and yet, we still play this game.

nordmarian

Do you know why ? Becouse it is much harder, than make it with statick group. And if it is harder people can upgrade their skills and play even better untill they can solo it.

Doing content without being part of a static group is one problem I encountered way too often lately. What does it stop someone to simply join a group of friends and help them out? Or even zone. Pointing out towards I can earn x gold in 30 min is just wrong.
People no longer enjoying helping out of their hearts. I did cleared pretty much all content with few exceptions but If people ask my help even with some training runs in nHOF or vMOL If I'm free, I'm there.
Leaving a group only because someone invited you to another content during same time is also something I don't enjoy being part or caught off. Might have done it as well but at least I did excused myself or even tried to find a replacement.
Leaving a group after 1 2 or 3 wipes is also very impolite and toxic behavior.

We both agree that I am not talking about everyone, but those few individuals whom are being less friendly towards others are also dragging down others.

Often I called some well known and experienced guildies to help out with some training runs for example. Why they didn't helped their own guild mates? L2P? I agree someone isn't too skilled, point out in the right direction them, even if they don't ask for your opinion. Making fun of them is just so wrong.

anitajoneb17_ESO

nordmarian wrote: »

What does it stop someone to simply join a group of friends and help them out? Or even zone. .../... People no longer enjoying helping out of their hearts. .../... Why they didn't helped their own guild mates?

A lot of people simply abuse "being friends or guildies" and keep asking for help, which is most times a disguised demand for carries. Good players get tired of that, and I understand it.

I have good friends who are good players and play in the top tier raiding communities. They carry me for free every time I ask them to. Why ?
1/ Because they know that I keep it on the very very strict minimum (when I need the achievement for a dye or an achievement-gated item). Not for the sake of having an achievement or a title.
2/ Because they know that carrying me once does not mean that I'll bully them every other day or every other week for another carry, for myself, for friends, or for friends of friends (while I'm being bullied myself from my lower-level "friends" who want to benefit from my network in order to get carried themselves).
3/ Because they know I'm grateful and I'm there for them.

You have no idea how top-tier players are being bombarded with help requests all the time, and how unthankful carried people can be.

If I have my own network, it's because I've taken the time and done the efforts to build that network. I always do whatever I can to return favors and show gratitude. There's nothing more annoying than pairing in Skyreach with someone who needs to XP an alt, but I do it, out of gratitude. There's nothing more boring than buffing someone while they train on a dummy but I do it for them, out of gratitude. I also craft furniture they want but don't have the blueprints for, I also bite them for vampires or werewolf when they need it, even if I have to switch chars, even if I am in the middle of something else, and even if I was just about to log out and go to bed. And I always take the time to listen to them if they're downhearted for whatever reason. I also take the time to follow them and their progress on hard stuff, even if I'm not part of said progress.

All this is part of "being friends", and I'm sorry to say that many, many people don't do any of this, don't even think of showing gratitude and giving some of their own time back, and THEN complain that noone wants to help them or carry them, which they then generalize as "noone wants to help". In which case, making it a business deal, aka "buying carries for gold" is a better alternative.

TL/DR : Good players are not compelled to help everyone and their mothers. People needing carries don't always want to or know how to show gratitude and return favors. Buying carries for gold is the way to go in those cases, it makes it a healthy deal with no further obligations attached.