Sorry OP, but are you for real?

Jabs? A skill that's bashable?

fbours wrote: »

IamDestiny wrote: »

Holy *** this hurts.

NB main here.

If you are getting killed by jabs 1v1 its a l2p issue.
Jabs are only annoying when you have multiple people chasing you.

You dont slot shuffle on a nb? Especially with all the templars running around?
The 25% damage reduction to aoes REALLY helps.

Also why would you try and kill somebody without your procs up.
If i get that right you run to that templar and surprise attack him. Thats not how you play NB.

You stay at range use poison inject stack your relentless. When they come close and try to jab you just walk in them. stop trying to run away. You wanna dodge through them not away from them. When you have 5 stacks you incap. Wait for their dodge roll. Charge a heavy attack into relentless. Execute. Dead.

If your burst combo fails rinse and repeat. No point trying to kill somebody without relentless who actually knows how to play.

No point trying to fight somebody close up when they can clearly out damage you.

(Thats the no-CP version)

Magplar main here (see what I did there?), I say that not only jabs but passives and abilities in my toolkit are overloaded which goes against ZOS statement about "adjustments" made to NB abilities in previous patches.

You pretend like Templars are just dummies that when you Dodge they will literally keep running straight or they can easily charge at you and stun/knock you at range. Templar vs stamblade equal skill, templars have an upperhand (paper/scissors? Maybe). I won't even mention magblades because they are almost free kills to Templars (paper/nuclear bomb? Yes). Facts.

I'm not asking to destroy Templars, I'm asking ZOS to apply their vision to all classes which is reduce overloaded abilities and redundancies between abilities, why does a class has so many snares and heals while being super tanky and one of the best bursts?

So, a few things.

One. Templar is not super tanky. When looking at the best classes for tanking, Templar isn't even in the top half. Dragonknights, Wardens, and Necromancers are significantly more tanky than Templars are. If you're running across 'tanky' templars, it's most likely because of armor sets, not from what the class naturally offers.

Two. The burst potential of Templars will be decreased this upcoming patch. Backlash was hitting so hard because it was copying the high damage of DoTs. With DoT power decreased, and the group utility removed from Backlash, it should hit you for less, and decrease the burst potential of Templars.

Three. The class has so many snares because it has low mobility. Classes with high mobility don't have as many snares because they have the ability to catch up to and keep up with their target, or have the benefit of range. Templars are more melee focused in their class skills and lack the mobility to continually catch up to their opponents (one gap closer does not mobility make), so they have snares to make sure they can keep opponents in attack range. Snares are getting decreased on Puncturing Strikes next patch, so be patient and see how it feels.

Four. Templars have so many heals, because their class identity revolves around healing. Those heals, just to point out, are more group focused in nature. Templar's burst heal isn

Five. I'm going to disagree with asking ZOS to apply their anti-redundancy vision to all classes, because frankly, that vision (at least the anti-redundancy portion) stinks. I've noticed the change my Nightblades have had in power and mobility over the past few patches, and it hasn't felt great. So what if a class (such as Nightblade) has multiple sources of Expedition. They're the sneaky rogue assassin class, they should be fast. Let's use Templar as an example of how classes should look and bring the other classes up to that standard, rather than insisting everyone be brought to where Nightblade is now. Honestly, I'd rather every class felt unique and powerful.

ealdwin wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

IamDestiny wrote: »

Holy *** this hurts.

NB main here.

If you are getting killed by jabs 1v1 its a l2p issue.
Jabs are only annoying when you have multiple people chasing you.

You dont slot shuffle on a nb? Especially with all the templars running around?
The 25% damage reduction to aoes REALLY helps.

Also why would you try and kill somebody without your procs up.
If i get that right you run to that templar and surprise attack him. Thats not how you play NB.

You stay at range use poison inject stack your relentless. When they come close and try to jab you just walk in them. stop trying to run away. You wanna dodge through them not away from them. When you have 5 stacks you incap. Wait for their dodge roll. Charge a heavy attack into relentless. Execute. Dead.

If your burst combo fails rinse and repeat. No point trying to kill somebody without relentless who actually knows how to play.

No point trying to fight somebody close up when they can clearly out damage you.

(Thats the no-CP version)

Magplar main here (see what I did there?), I say that not only jabs but passives and abilities in my toolkit are overloaded which goes against ZOS statement about "adjustments" made to NB abilities in previous patches.

You pretend like Templars are just dummies that when you Dodge they will literally keep running straight or they can easily charge at you and stun/knock you at range. Templar vs stamblade equal skill, templars have an upperhand (paper/scissors? Maybe). I won't even mention magblades because they are almost free kills to Templars (paper/nuclear bomb? Yes). Facts.

I'm not asking to destroy Templars, I'm asking ZOS to apply their vision to all classes which is reduce overloaded abilities and redundancies between abilities, why does a class has so many snares and heals while being super tanky and one of the best bursts?

So, a few things.

One. Templar is not super tanky. When looking at the best classes for tanking, Templar isn't even in the top half. Dragonknights, Wardens, and Necromancers are significantly more tanky than Templars are. If you're running across 'tanky' templars, it's most likely because of armor sets, not from what the class naturally offers.

Two. The burst potential of Templars will be decreased this upcoming patch. Backlash was hitting so hard because it was copying the high damage of DoTs. With DoT power decreased, and the group utility removed from Backlash, it should hit you for less, and decrease the burst potential of Templars.

Three. The class has so many snares because it has low mobility. Classes with high mobility don't have as many snares because they have the ability to catch up to and keep up with their target, or have the benefit of range. Templars are more melee focused in their class skills and lack the mobility to continually catch up to their opponents (one gap closer does not mobility make), so they have snares to make sure they can keep opponents in attack range. Snares are getting decreased on Puncturing Strikes next patch, so be patient and see how it feels.

Four. Templars have so many heals, because their class identity revolves around healing. Those heals, just to point out, are more group focused in nature. Templar's burst heal isn

Five. I'm going to disagree with asking ZOS to apply their anti-redundancy vision to all classes, because frankly, that vision (at least the anti-redundancy portion) stinks. I've noticed the change my Nightblades have had in power and mobility over the past few patches, and it hasn't felt great. So what if a class (such as Nightblade) has multiple sources of Expedition. They're the sneaky rogue assassin class, they should be fast. Let's use Templar as an example of how classes should look and bring the other classes up to that standard, rather than insisting everyone be brought to where Nightblade is now. Honestly, I'd rather every class felt unique and powerful.

Good post.

Fact is that with homogenization templars can now build for mobility with gear and spells outside Templars own abilities. Just look at that Kris youtuber as example as to how mobile a Templar can be. On top of that add Templars gap closers, snares, burst, stuns and heals.

When you brake it down the way you did, sure it is sounds balanced, but when all combined you have the result we currently see, Templars are the fotm class right now, that speaks for itself so don't deny that. Go to a high mmr bg, Cryodiil, I see those jabs jabs jabs left to right that even after I stop playing the game I still hear the jab sound.

Yes Templars are tanky, not because of gear, that a constant across all classes but because the amount of heals as you stated. All classes can be mobile now, NB and sorc mobile? No but that's 2 classes out 6. And you just stated that NBs mobility is not as good anymore...

I'm not talking or suggesting homogenization tho, that is a different topic.

Sure their burst got lowered, but their sustain dmg increased specifically jabs (yes, jabs got buffed) now being considered direct dmg only. Go try it for your self - this is CP only though, haven't tested no-cp.

Op clearly needs to L2P. You can counter a lot of damage from templar since it's mostly AOE by slotting major evasion (and optionaly brp duals for extra major protection). Nb has this skill on demand too.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ways to counter sweeps as a NB:
- shade
- mist form
- block if you have team mates, the healing is dependent on damage done.

Personally I’d go with mist form. Shade’s too expensive. The traditionally tanky classes (DKs and Templars) have started figuring out how good speed is so outrunning isn’t an option.

Yeah take away your class skills altogether guess you don't care for your identity

Hey, I didn’t design the game! I’m just saying what works from my experience, vs the theoretical counters you see from people who don’t main a NB.

Last thing you want to do is try to counter it with major evasion. You’re not going to win a head on fight against a templar. As soon as you see a templar hit major evasion if you have it slotted, mid jabs is way too late. They’ll charge and dizzy or jabs you guaranteed.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Op clearly needs to L2P. You can counter a lot of damage from templar since it's mostly AOE by slotting major evasion (and optionaly brp duals for extra major protection). Nb has this skill on demand too.

Not everybody is dual wield nor should they have to be forced into it

Double take is still there. Topic starter is a nightblade i think.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ways to counter sweeps as a NB:
- shade
- mist form
- block if you have team mates, the healing is dependent on damage done.

Personally I’d go with mist form. Shade’s too expensive. The traditionally tanky classes (DKs and Templars) have started figuring out how good speed is so outrunning isn’t an option.

Yeah take away your class skills altogether guess you don't care for your identity

Hey, I didn’t design the game! I’m just saying what works from my experience, vs the theoretical counters you see from people who don’t main a NB.

Last thing you want to do is try to counter it with major evasion. You’re not going to win a head on fight against a templar.

Using a counter against it in a 1 V1 is way different than Group Play when you got five or six people stunning you and knocking you back and spamming 1 ability you can't counter that and I'm not a Parma cloaker I use my cloak for what it's for my critical strikes and my resistance buff it's not The Hideout and be scared all the time I agree with that fact

Yea, I stopped think of cloak as a defensive ability and only offensive. It helped my play a lot. Those who say it’s great for defense are trolling. Mist form is better.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

So , can you please give me another spammable class skill that gives:
Stamina morph:
-Major savagery.
-Snare of 40% per hit on the target.

When it is slotted:
-Increase your Critical Damage by 10%
-Increase your damage done to blocking targets by 10%

When you use it:
-Gain Minor Protection for 6 seconds,
reducing damage taken by 8%.

And affected by this passive:
When you deal damage with an Aedric Spear ability, you have a 25% chance to deal an additional x Physical Damage or x Magic Damage, whichever is higher. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
So it has even a good amount of damage.
Magika morph is similar but without major savagery , it gives instead an heal.

While no one can give you a spammable that gives the Things Jabs do (because surprise surprise classes have different passives and different abilities have different effects) I can give you other spammables with a Long list of what they do. (most spammables actually do a lot when you simply list all passives and effects they have btw)

Spammable Nr. 1

Instant cast spammable, can be blockcasted and otherwise Animation cancelled
doesnt stop casting if you get cced
isnt affected by Major Evasion
cant walk out of it
28/43 meters range
heals for part of Damage done
heals for 10 seconds after 1 cast
gives 8% max mag for slotting
gives 3% healing for slotting
gives ult gen for cast every 4 seconds (up to 0.5 ult gen per second)

Spammable Nr.2
Instant cast spammable, can be blockcasted and otherwise Animation cancelled
doesnt stop casting if you get cced
isnt affected by Major Evasion
cant walk out of it
28/43 meters range
sets offbalance
gives a dot stacking up to 7 times (one of the strongest dots in the game come next patch)
gives 12% mag and stam regen for slotting it
gives 2% increase on all Damage for slotting it
gives ult gen for cast every 8 seconds (up to 0.5 ult gen per second)

This ^