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Sweep spam is op

  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    Witar wrote: »
    Witar wrote: »
    Op clearly needs to L2P. You can counter a lot of damage from templar since it's mostly AOE by slotting major evasion (and optionaly brp duals for extra major protection). Nb has this skill on demand too.

    Not everybody is dual wield nor should they have to be forced into it
    Double take is still there. Topic starter is a nightblade i think.

    You're very right on that affect but you tell me the bar space that we have the place it in with the cut to the Nightblade skills the way they are we don't and since we're talking balance here where is the balance at
  • Witar
    Witar
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    Could you write your messeges slightly comprehensible at least?
    Don't have extra bar space? Make some. It's the same trade off all of us are doing every day.
    It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
    Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
    It lies behind stars and under hills,
    And empty holes it fills,
    It comes first and follows after,
    Ends life, kills laughter.
  • sentientomega
    sentientomega
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    Frankly, I think they should also add the heal to the stamina morph, biting jabs, possibly in exchange for major brutality, or the snare.

    If it were to be major brutality, I think they should also do the same with sun fire, have it heal a percentage for every tick, and the base hit, but limiting the heal gained from reflective light to damage dealt to the the enemy first targeted with the ability, not the other(s) hit, so that it doesn't heal for too much.
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    Witar wrote: »
    Could you write your messeges slightly comprehensible at least?
    Don't have extra bar space? Make some. It's the same trade off all of us are doing every day.

    If English was my first language and this translator didn't *** things up they might come out better
    Edited by Nordic__Knights on October 17, 2019 10:05PM
  • jeskah
    jeskah
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    Hey, i no longer see the photo, was it me? i jabbed to death not lomg ago an afk player 😀
    Edited by jeskah on October 17, 2019 10:15PM
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    jeskah wrote: »
    Hey, i no longer see the photo, was it me? i jabbed to death not lomg ago an afk player 😀

    Are you on Xbox if so you might be the corporate
  • jeskah
    jeskah
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    jeskah wrote: »
    Hey, i no longer see the photo, was it me? i jabbed to death not lomg ago an afk player 😀

    Are you on Xbox if so you might be the corporate

    Nope.
    Here goes my five minutes of fame 😭
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    jeskah wrote: »
    jeskah wrote: »
    Hey, i no longer see the photo, was it me? i jabbed to death not lomg ago an afk player 😀

    Are you on Xbox if so you might be the corporate

    Nope.
    Here goes my five minutes of fame 😭

    Lol
  • Muzzick
    Muzzick
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Ways to counter sweeps as a NB:
    - shade
    - mist form
    - block if you have team mates, the healing is dependent on damage done.

    Personally I’d go with mist form. Shade’s too expensive. The traditionally tanky classes (DKs and Templars) have started figuring out how good speed is so outrunning isn’t an option.

    Yeah take away your class skills altogether guess you don't care for your identity

    Hey, I didn’t design the game! I’m just saying what works from my experience, vs the theoretical counters you see from people who don’t main a NB.

    Last thing you want to do is try to counter it with major evasion. You’re not going to win a head on fight against a templar.
    Using a counter against it in a 1 V1 is way different than Group Play when you got five or six people stunning you and knocking you back and spamming 1 ability you can't counter that and I'm not a Parma cloaker I use my cloak for what it's for my critical strikes and my resistance buff it's not The Hideout and be scared all the time I agree with that fact

    Yea, I stopped think of cloak as a defensive ability and only offensive. It helped my play a lot. Those who say it’s great for defense are trolling. Mist form is better.

    That you also stop thinking about your identity I happen to want to keep mine intact

    Cloak is OP, let's make a thread and get crit removed from cloak
  • rabidmyers
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    Frankly, I think they should also add the heal to the stamina morph, biting jabs, possibly in exchange for major brutality, or the snare.

    If it were to be major brutality, I think they should also do the same with sun fire, have it heal a percentage for every tick, and the base hit, but limiting the heal gained from reflective light to damage dealt to the the enemy first targeted with the ability, not the other(s) hit, so that it doesn't heal for too much.

    savagery*
    at a place nobody knows
  • ecru
    ecru
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    I've said it a million times on these forums but templars refuse to believe it for some weird reason.

    Sweeps does as much damage as necro's blastbones and warden's shalks. Throw in a proc pretty much every channel and you have the most powerful spammable ability in the game by a substantial amount, and on top of that it's braindead easy to use.

    Shalks and Blastbones are already very high damage abilities, and are only usable at most every 3 seconds. Why does a spammable ability that does as much damage as these abilities exist, and why does it have a proc attached to it that makes it even more powerful? Every ~1 second you can spam the equivalent of 150% the damage of shalks and blastbones with decent rng. It's completely ridiculous and it's been overtuned for a looooong, long time.

    Jabs is even worse. 1100-1600 per tick of jabs, plus 2-3k proc, plus 1.5-2k light attack, can easily reach 9-10k damage for a single channel. Throw in a few dots and you're chunking off half of someone's health with a single 1s channel, which shouldn't be happening.

    Since it's no longer being reduced by major evasion, the damage of the channel itself needs to be reduced, at least in pvp. Can any templar justify why sweep/jabs needs to do as much damage as shalks/blastbones along with having a proc for another 50% of it's damage?
    Edited by ecru on October 18, 2019 2:36AM
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    ecru wrote: »
    I've said it a million times on these forums but templars refuse to believe it for some weird reason.

    Sweeps does as much damage as necro's blastbones and warden's shalks. Throw in a proc pretty much every channel and you have the most powerful spammable ability in the game by a substantial amount, and on top of that it's braindead easy to use.

    Shalks and Blastbones are already very high damage abilities, and are only usable at most every 3 seconds. Why does a spammable ability that does as much damage as these abilities exist, and why does it have a proc attached to it that makes it even more powerful? Every ~1 second you can spam the equivalent of 150% the damage of shalks and blastbones with decent rng. It's completely ridiculous and it's been overtuned for a looooong, long time.

    Jabs is even worse. 1100-1600 per tick of jabs, plus 2-3k proc, plus 1.5-2k light attack, can easily reach 9-10k damage for a single channel. Throw in a few dots and you're chunking off half of someone's health with a single 1s channel, which shouldn't be happening.

    Since it's no longer being reduced by major evasion, the damage of the channel itself needs to be reduced, at least in pvp. Can any templar justify why sweep/jabs needs to do as much damage as shalks/blastbones along with having a proc for another 50% of it's damage?

    No cuz to do so would admit that they're *** wrong about everything to try to say about their class or should I say lying about their class
  • Synozeer
    Synozeer
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    ecru wrote: »
    Since it's no longer being reduced by major evasion, the damage of the channel itself needs to be reduced, at least in pvp. Can any templar justify why sweep/jabs needs to do as much damage as shalks/blastbones along with having a proc for another 50% of it's damage?

    Jabs will still be affected by major evasion. It's only changing from being considered a DoT source to direct damage - it's still AoE which is what major evasion affects.
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  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    I mean I can get on here and say I got 3 templars actually so I can actually say that. I main Templar and just as easy say that they are OP as *** eso can check my account and see yes he has 3 810cp templars 1 healer 1 tank and 1 dps so he should know templar well so he has to be right but no i keep it real i main nightblade 16x emp 5 🌟 soloist so other then giving feedback on why something reasonable should be changed i say nothing on templar same as i dont on MAGSORC or stamsorc or even stamdk why because i dont main them i play them casually just to switch it up here or there are they in bis gear 810cp you bit your ass they are why because can i play them as good if not better then most who call them there main yes i can but still yet i wouldn't classify myself as a main for anything--but nightblades Stam Nightblade to be a fact
    P.S i have 3,004hr 24m 26sec. Play time on templar classes
    Edited by Nordic__Knights on October 18, 2019 3:14AM
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
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    I agree the snare should be taken away from jabs but that's about it. Templar already has enough CC they don't need a snare attached to their spammable
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  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Ways to counter sweeps as a NB:
    - shade
    - mist form
    - block if you have team mates, the healing is dependent on damage done.

    Personally I’d go with mist form. Shade’s too expensive. The traditionally tanky classes (DKs and Templars) have started figuring out how good speed is so outrunning isn’t an option.

    Yeah take away your class skills altogether guess you don't care for your identity

    Hey, I didn’t design the game! I’m just saying what works from my experience, vs the theoretical counters you see from people who don’t main a NB.

    Last thing you want to do is try to counter it with major evasion. You’re not going to win a head on fight against a templar.
    Using a counter against it in a 1 V1 is way different than Group Play when you got five or six people stunning you and knocking you back and spamming 1 ability you can't counter that and I'm not a Parma cloaker I use my cloak for what it's for my critical strikes and my resistance buff it's not The Hideout and be scared all the time I agree with that fact

    Yea, I stopped think of cloak as a defensive ability and only offensive. It helped my play a lot. Those who say it’s great for defense are trolling. Mist form is better.

    Are you a Stamblade? Because as a Magblade I find Cloak indispensable for defense.
  • ecru
    ecru
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    Depends how you build it I guess.

    Because my jabs have a 5k tooltip which is 20k with 1 channel and 27k with a burning light proc.

    :trollface:

    This guy gets it. With a 20k+ jabs tooltip you can burn people down in 2 channels of jabs if you get a proc on each channel. It's been overtuned like this for a loooong time.
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • technohic
    technohic
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    ecru wrote: »
    Depends how you build it I guess.

    Because my jabs have a 5k tooltip which is 20k with 1 channel and 27k with a burning light proc.

    :trollface:

    This guy gets it. With a 20k+ jabs tooltip you can burn people down in 2 channels of jabs if you get a proc on each channel. It's been overtuned like this for a loooong time.

    I would like to see someone killed in 2 channels of jabs that has 1 clue what they are doing in PVP.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    ecru wrote: »
    I've said it a million times on these forums but templars refuse to believe it for some weird reason.

    Sweeps does as much damage as necro's blastbones and warden's shalks. Throw in a proc pretty much every channel and you have the most powerful spammable ability in the game by a substantial amount, and on top of that it's braindead easy to use.

    Shalks and Blastbones are already very high damage abilities, and are only usable at most every 3 seconds. Why does a spammable ability that does as much damage as these abilities exist, and why does it have a proc attached to it that makes it even more powerful? Every ~1 second you can spam the equivalent of 150% the damage of shalks and blastbones with decent rng. It's completely ridiculous and it's been overtuned for a looooong, long time.

    Jabs is even worse. 1100-1600 per tick of jabs, plus 2-3k proc, plus 1.5-2k light attack, can easily reach 9-10k damage for a single channel. Throw in a few dots and you're chunking off half of someone's health with a single 1s channel, which shouldn't be happening.

    Since it's no longer being reduced by major evasion, the damage of the channel itself needs to be reduced, at least in pvp. Can any templar justify why sweep/jabs needs to do as much damage as shalks/blastbones along with having a proc for another 50% of it's damage?

    Its still effected by major evasion isn't it?
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    ecru wrote: »
    Depends how you build it I guess.

    Because my jabs have a 5k tooltip which is 20k with 1 channel and 27k with a burning light proc.

    :trollface:

    This guy gets it. With a 20k+ jabs tooltip you can burn people down in 2 channels of jabs if you get a proc on each channel. It's been overtuned like this for a loooong time.

    Thats the unbuffed tooltip. With continious and enchant proc it goes to 5.6k per hit with an 8.5k burning light proc. So over 30k tooltip dmg.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • ecru
    ecru
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    technohic wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    Depends how you build it I guess.

    Because my jabs have a 5k tooltip which is 20k with 1 channel and 27k with a burning light proc.

    :trollface:

    This guy gets it. With a 20k+ jabs tooltip you can burn people down in 2 channels of jabs if you get a proc on each channel. It's been overtuned like this for a loooong time.

    I would like to see someone killed in 2 channels of jabs that has 1 clue what they are doing in PVP.

    with a high enough tooltip, a dot or two ticking, potl and two channels of jabs both with a burning light proc is going to be enough damage to kill most players if you get half decent crits. 6k jabs (average 1500/tick) + 3k bl + 1.5k light attack is already over 10k. two of those channels, a few ticks of a dot, and potl going off is enough damage to kill most players.

    edit: i also see some players justifying the snare on jabs/sweep with the idea that templars don't have any mobility. first off, you have three class abilities which cc others (eclipse, javelin, and focused charge). even if we ignore those abilities, due to most templars running extended ritual (and if you aren't, you should), templars have the opposite of mobility--they have the best kiting ability in the entire game. being able to place down a gigantic aoe which snares everyone inside of it for 24 seconds means that you can kite your opponent at just about any time you want, provided you aren't cc'd yourself. with your opponents almost always permanently snared already, the idea that a spammable ability also needs a snare attached to it is pretty ridiculous IMO.
    Edited by ecru on October 18, 2019 4:01AM
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    ecru wrote: »
    I've said it a million times on these forums but templars refuse to believe it for some weird reason.

    Sweeps does as much damage as necro's blastbones and warden's shalks. Throw in a proc pretty much every channel and you have the most powerful spammable ability in the game by a substantial amount, and on top of that it's braindead easy to use.

    Shalks and Blastbones are already very high damage abilities, and are only usable at most every 3 seconds. Why does a spammable ability that does as much damage as these abilities exist, and why does it have a proc attached to it that makes it even more powerful? Every ~1 second you can spam the equivalent of 150% the damage of shalks and blastbones with decent rng. It's completely ridiculous and it's been overtuned for a looooong, long time.

    Jabs is even worse. 1100-1600 per tick of jabs, plus 2-3k proc, plus 1.5-2k light attack, can easily reach 9-10k damage for a single channel. Throw in a few dots and you're chunking off half of someone's health with a single 1s channel, which shouldn't be happening.

    Since it's no longer being reduced by major evasion, the damage of the channel itself needs to be reduced, at least in pvp. Can any templar justify why sweep/jabs needs to do as much damage as shalks/blastbones along with having a proc for another 50% of it's damage?

    Because it's been shown that what you claim isn't true. PvE Templars go with Elemental Weapon. And the skill's animation is longer than the cast time which means any player who goes by what they actually see on their screens or plays in lag will have a lower DPS than they should.

    And you're still just typing things that aren't true. Sweeps will still be reduced by major evasion. You are not objective at all.
    Edited by Joy_Division on October 18, 2019 4:03AM
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    And play time is added up
    Nightblade 8,424hr 56m 03 sec.
    Templar 3,004hr 24m 26 sec.
    Sorc 767hr 15m 15 sec.
    Dk 266hr 35m 21 sec.
    Necro 164hr 32m 49 sec.
    Warden 85hr 58m 57 sec.
    Total play time 12,712hr 42m 51 sec.
    ANYONE else CARE to share their play time per CLASS
  • ecru
    ecru
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    ecru wrote: »
    I've said it a million times on these forums but templars refuse to believe it for some weird reason.

    Sweeps does as much damage as necro's blastbones and warden's shalks. Throw in a proc pretty much every channel and you have the most powerful spammable ability in the game by a substantial amount, and on top of that it's braindead easy to use.

    Shalks and Blastbones are already very high damage abilities, and are only usable at most every 3 seconds. Why does a spammable ability that does as much damage as these abilities exist, and why does it have a proc attached to it that makes it even more powerful? Every ~1 second you can spam the equivalent of 150% the damage of shalks and blastbones with decent rng. It's completely ridiculous and it's been overtuned for a looooong, long time.

    Jabs is even worse. 1100-1600 per tick of jabs, plus 2-3k proc, plus 1.5-2k light attack, can easily reach 9-10k damage for a single channel. Throw in a few dots and you're chunking off half of someone's health with a single 1s channel, which shouldn't be happening.

    Since it's no longer being reduced by major evasion, the damage of the channel itself needs to be reduced, at least in pvp. Can any templar justify why sweep/jabs needs to do as much damage as shalks/blastbones along with having a proc for another 50% of it's damage?

    Because it's been shown that what you claim isn't true. PvE Templars go with Elemental Weapon. And the skill's animation is longer than the cast time which means any player who plays by what they actually see on their screens will have a lower DPS than they should.

    And you're still just typing things that aren't true. Sweeps will still be reduced by major evasion. You are not objective at all.

    pve magplars use ele weapon because ele weapon is ranged and costs less. why don't all pvp templars use it if ele weapon is so good? if ele weapon was clearly better, pvp templars would surely drop sweep for ele weapon, right? lol. we've already had this discussion, and sweeps does more damage than ele weapon. myself and other players tested it, and sweep came out ahead by roughly ~30% from what i remember. some people were apparently very upset by this, but i don't understand why. having the option to use sweep if you're going to be in melee as a magplar seems like a good thing, provided you can sustain it. also, i don't see how the animation makes any difference considering how we already cancel animations every gcd. it took me like 10 minutes on a dummy to learn how to weave sweep at ~.89 channels per second with a light attack. once you've got the muscle memory down, it's not much different than a non-channeled ability.

    tbh the idea that a spammable ability which has the same tooltip as warden shalks and necro's blastbones isn't "good enough" use is so ridiculous it's hard to believe anyone even bothers making these kinds of arguments.

    i'm seeing people make assumptions about major evasion, but has it actually been tested on pts? even if it's still reduced by major evasion, after major evasion it still does more damage than every other spammable in the game as far as i can tell. this says a lot about how overtuned the damage is. i'll concede that i'm wrong about that, but it doesn't particularly make a whole lot of difference considering the amount of damage the ability does.

    edit: weird, one of my posts in this thread vanished.
    Edziu wrote: »
    Kolzki wrote: »
    Other options include cc'ing the templar because jabs can't be cast through block or walking/rolling through them because it doesn't hit targets behind them.

    It can be casted through block. And great idea. Dodge rolling. Not like some people play mag builds

    Edziu wrote: »
    Aurie wrote: »
    Oh, another nerf thread from a PvPer

    if it was real PVPer then wouldnt be here this thread
    this nerf is comming from newbie or casual PvPer who definitely reject any l2p and rather call for nerf so no need to l2p at all

    A - I’m not a casual player. I log on pretty much every day.

    B - so you think that having a snare, aoe, a heal, minor protection, and burning light procs on 1 skill is fair?

    1) jabs without burning light proc is weakest damage spammable in game, so yes, it need to have burning liht, it have been created, balanced around this passive

    jabs is the highest damage spammable in the game, not the weakest. if this were true, shalks and blastbones would do less damage than spammable abilities (lol). there's a whole lot of misinformation in this thread.
    Edited by ecru on October 18, 2019 4:19AM
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  • Drdeath20
    Drdeath20
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    Jabs is the stamina morph and it doesnt heal.

    Sweeps is the magicka morph (which heals).
  • ThePhantomThorn
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    ecru wrote: »
    I've said it a million times on these forums but templars refuse to believe it for some weird reason.

    Sweeps does as much damage as necro's blastbones and warden's shalks. Throw in a proc pretty much every channel and you have the most powerful spammable ability in the game by a substantial amount, and on top of that it's braindead easy to use.

    Shalks and Blastbones are already very high damage abilities, and are only usable at most every 3 seconds. Why does a spammable ability that does as much damage as these abilities exist, and why does it have a proc attached to it that makes it even more powerful? Every ~1 second you can spam the equivalent of 150% the damage of shalks and blastbones with decent rng. It's completely ridiculous and it's been overtuned for a looooong, long time.

    Jabs is even worse. 1100-1600 per tick of jabs, plus 2-3k proc, plus 1.5-2k light attack, can easily reach 9-10k damage for a single channel. Throw in a few dots and you're chunking off half of someone's health with a single 1s channel, which shouldn't be happening.

    Since it's no longer being reduced by major evasion, the damage of the channel itself needs to be reduced, at least in pvp. Can any templar justify why sweep/jabs needs to do as much damage as shalks/blastbones along with having a proc for another 50% of it's damage?

    This
  • jbjondeaueb17_ESO
    jbjondeaueb17_ESO
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    Strikes (and morphs) are still affected by Major Evasion, because it's still an AOE, Major Evasion has nothing to do with the damage being considered Direct Damage or Dot.
    Stop spreading misinformation.
    Pain-Healer - Argonian Templar Healer (EP) - Immortal Redeemer - Gryphon's Heart
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  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Langeston wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Ways to counter sweeps as a NB:
    - shade
    - mist form
    - block if you have team mates, the healing is dependent on damage done.

    Personally I’d go with mist form. Shade’s too expensive. The traditionally tanky classes (DKs and Templars) have started figuring out how good speed is so outrunning isn’t an option.

    Yeah take away your class skills altogether guess you don't care for your identity

    Hey, I didn’t design the game! I’m just saying what works from my experience, vs the theoretical counters you see from people who don’t main a NB.

    Last thing you want to do is try to counter it with major evasion. You’re not going to win a head on fight against a templar.
    Using a counter against it in a 1 V1 is way different than Group Play when you got five or six people stunning you and knocking you back and spamming 1 ability you can't counter that and I'm not a Parma cloaker I use my cloak for what it's for my critical strikes and my resistance buff it's not The Hideout and be scared all the time I agree with that fact

    Yea, I stopped think of cloak as a defensive ability and only offensive. It helped my play a lot. Those who say it’s great for defense are trolling. Mist form is better.

    Are you a Stamblade? Because as a Magblade I find Cloak indispensable for defense.

    @Langeston

    Magblade. Cloak works if you’re mainly ranged, if you’re a brawler or in melee a lot cloak doesn’t work well. In the OP’s situation if a templar is already mid jabs cloak won’t do anything, mist form is a lot better.

    There are combos of abilities that might get you out of that bind, with high incoming damage you’ll likely die without a 1 button solution; mist or shade.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 18, 2019 11:20AM
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  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    kalunte wrote: »
    well, jabs are definatly overloaded when used against a stamblade in 1v1, even more when it's a magic jab because of its healing on top of all templar passives, dmg proc+minor prot.

    but since those are passives... well, deal with it.

    it wouldnt be an issue if eso movement was better but well.. all med armor have easy access to major evasion, and nightblades have 2, one magicka based, the other one stambased + snare removal.

    counterplays exist.


    dont get me wrong i hate jabbers as much as i hate dragon leapers and way much mure than anyone could ever hate a bowblade like me. but well. counters plays exist. simply use them :)

    If only I can spam my snare removals the same way DKs and templars spam their snares.
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    Synozeer wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    Since it's no longer being reduced by major evasion, the damage of the channel itself needs to be reduced, at least in pvp. Can any templar justify why sweep/jabs needs to do as much damage as shalks/blastbones along with having a proc for another 50% of it's damage?

    Jabs will still be affected by major evasion. It's only changing from being considered a DoT source to direct damage - it's still AoE which is what major evasion affects.

    It does not on pts i believe.
    Edited by universal_wrath on October 18, 2019 12:00PM
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