Pet Sorcs got gutted ...

peacenote · September 2019

@SirAndy Thanks for response. I am hoping that a HA build will emerge for at least one of the classes, if not pet sorc.

It is too bad about the sustain, because in that case the patch is not only going to feel like "everything changed again" but it's ALSO going to feel a bit like "on no, not again" for those of us who suffered through the sustain nerfs in Morrowind. Even if you strongly felt they needed to be done, it was a very big transition time for many that did not feel fun. Which means the meta isn't going to feel as fresh but possibly almost as if we are going backwards.

Hopefully some kind of balance will be struck because I have preferred combat as it has evolved since that patch. We shouldn't have unlimited resources to the point where we can spam expensive abilities over and over again, but it is NOT enjoyable to constantly struggle with the resources to point of frustration.

Wouldn't surprise me if this was part of the performance tweaks... by slowing down combat.

Aerenel · September 2019

Nerfing dots is an indirect buff to light attack weaving.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

Tia413 wrote: »

I began playing this game a bit before One Tam hit. I loved it because I could play a class any way I so chose to. I didn't need to play the meta. I tried different skills until I found what worked for me.
I am a disabled person who is homebound. Gaming is something that I enjoy doing. It passes time.
I do have my limitations though (because of my disabilities). I don't use back bar. And most of the times I even forget to use my Ultimate. So needless to say, I am a PvE only player. And I have done very few Dungeons because I don't feel I have much to offer a group and because I don't feel I should be flamed for my playing style. I also wear what gear I feel suits my toon and playstyle , which is Tinkerer's and Necro. And I am/was happy.

I am also on the bandwagon of those who hate the fact of pets interferring with LoS while at a crafting station or banker, etc. I used to use the Matriarch and the Clannfear, but I dropped the Matriarch a while back in exchange for LL. Now I find myself as 1 of those people cussing behind the screen at those who have the Matriarch out at such places. But I was still happy at this point.

I'm sorry to hear of your health issues. I'm old enough to be a grandfather myself, and wasn't the quickest even when young, so I have my own limitations. That said, I'd like to suggest a couple of technical fixes for your consideration.

1. The Logitech G300 series of mice are inexpensive. In theory they give you seven additional mouse buttons; in practice two of the buttons are so easy to use that I think even with disabilities they should be fine. I use the easiest key for bar swap and the second-easiest for "x" (i.e. synergies and so on). That works great.

(There are two pairs of buttons that are super-easy to hit with the same fingers you use for mouse keys. Maybe a disability would require you to put the same skill on both buttons on each side, but I can't imagine how you could use a mouse at all without also being able to get at least two usable new buttons out of the deal.)

3. The PetDismiss add-on makes it very easy to get rid of your own pets in towns. (Unfortunately, it doesn't do anything for other peoples' pets ...).

Vahrokh · September 2019

Sorry guys. I love how many of you are really, REALLY attached to your magsorcs. Heck, I have 5 magsorcs myself, including my main.

But you have to understand that writing 3 pages long essays about how bad it's going to be, does not work with ZOS.

The only way is to do like me: unsub and if the interface asks you why, then write about the incoming nerfs.

That's the one and only way: to force them. Because kind and constructive words have stopped working 3 years ago.

Tia413 · September 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear of your health issues. I'm old enough to be a grandfather myself, and wasn't the quickest even when young, so I have my own limitations. That said, I'd like to suggest a couple of technical fixes for your consideration.

1. The Logitech G300 series of mice are inexpensive. In theory they give you seven additional mouse buttons; in practice two of the buttons are so easy to use that I think even with disabilities they should be fine. I use the easiest key for bar swap and the second-easiest for "x" (i.e. synergies and so on). That works great.

Thank You, I will check into this when I can fit it into my budget.

2.(There are two pairs of buttons that are super-easy to hit with the same fingers you use for mouse keys. Maybe a disability would require you to put the same skill on both buttons on each side, but I can't imagine how you could use a mouse at all without also being able to get at least two usable new buttons out of the deal.)

3. The PetDismiss add-on makes it very easy to get rid of your own pets in towns. (Unfortunately, it doesn't do anything for other peoples' pets ...).

I just push C and scroll down , right click on it and de-summon it that way. But thank you for the tip on the addon. I used to use it.

And I have decided to go ahead and flip my Clannfear now for the Familiar so I can start getting used to it again.
I am gonna give the changes at least a try , if those changes do go Live.
I refuse to change her to StamSorc just so I can keep my Clannfear.
I already changed her race from Altmer to Breton, which was extremely hard for me to do. She had been an Altmer since Day 1.

If I find it's not doable for me then I will go play another game and give another company my money.
But for now I am dropping my sub to ESO. Like I said before , I don't have to farm. So **** their crafting Bag. I will just sell a Majority of the mats I have now and buy the last bit of Dreugh Wax I need to finish off my Sorcs gear.

And once my Sorc works her way through Murkmire, Morrowind, Clockwork City, Summerset and Elsweyr.....I will most likely leave for good. I just can't find it in me to keep putting up with Zos's crap any longer.

Sorry Kanicki (my magplar) and Natiara (my magden) I loved you both and you will be missed.

And I will miss some of you that I have met here on the forums.

Elsonso · September 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sorry guys. I love how many of you are really, REALLY attached to your magsorcs. Heck, I have 5 magsorcs myself, including my main.

But you have to understand that writing 3 pages long essays about how bad it's going to be, does not work with ZOS.

The only way is to do like me: unsub and if the interface asks you why, then write about the incoming nerfs.

That's the one and only way: to force them. Because kind and constructive words have stopped working 3 years ago.

The combat team has no idea whether you subscribe to ESO Plus or have recently unsubbed. That information has no useful meaning. People leave the game every day, and it is often due to something they don't like. Your method, or the other method of sitting in a thread that does little more than cry about it, does not tell the combat team anything they don't already know. You are unhappy. That is not a lot to work with.

Personally, what I think the Combat Team needs are numbers from actual scenarios, played out on PTS, and how those numbers are impacting your game play. Not solutions. Not what-ifs. Not the difference between PTS and Live. Just numbers documenting how the changes actually impact your game play.

Tia413 · September 2019

lordrichter wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sorry guys. I love how many of you are really, REALLY attached to your magsorcs. Heck, I have 5 magsorcs myself, including my main.

But you have to understand that writing 3 pages long essays about how bad it's going to be, does not work with ZOS.

The only way is to do like me: unsub and if the interface asks you why, then write about the incoming nerfs.

That's the one and only way: to force them. Because kind and constructive words have stopped working 3 years ago.

The combat team has no idea whether you subscribe to ESO Plus or have recently unsubbed. That information has no useful meaning. People leave the game every day, and it is often due to something they don't like. Your method, or the other method of sitting in a thread that does little more than cry about it, does not tell the combat team anything they don't already know. You are unhappy. That is not a lot to work with.

Personally, what I think the Combat Team needs are numbers from actual scenarios, played out on PTS, and how those numbers are impacting your game play. Not solutions. Not what-ifs. Not the difference between PTS and Live. Just numbers documenting how the changes actually impact your game play.

Right now I wish I was back on my unlimited internet so I could do just that.

After sitting here for close to 12 hours reading over the PTS Feedback threads and other threads posted on the PTS Forums, trying to find a glimmer of hope, all I have seen is a lot of Stam build types and PvPers talk. They way out number the Casual PvE non-endgamers and Endgamers.
I desperately want to save my MagSorc and other Mag toons but the talk of how hard it is to sustain to kill anything now is ....scary. To say the least.
And so far it don't look like Zos is really listening much to the playerbase on the PTS.

Not very hopeful right now and want to help but I just can't figure out how to because of being tied behind limited data Internet.

***Edited because I for some reason can't type right today

Morimizo · September 2019

Mettaricana wrote: »

I like the option for my stam sorc to finally have a pet and access to the max health and for summoned pet makimg stam sorc feel like the classic older es game sorcerer that uses bound weapons blades summons and armor

A better solution to provide a summon for StamSorc would have been to have the Clannfear (and Scamp) scale to whichever stat was highest on your character, a mechanic that is available on a few other skills already. That way no player loses what they have on Live, but those without, gain. The damage could be poison/physical, or fire/frost/lightning.

But that would be adding something, and this dev team wishes only to take away.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

Tia413 wrote: »

Sorry Kanicki (my magplar) and Natiara (my magden) I loved you both and you will be missed.
And I will miss some of you that I have met here on the forums.

If I had to play single-bar, I'd probably choose magplar, using all but one of:

Puncturing Sweeps
Reflective Light
Unstable Wall of Elements
Honor the Dead
Force Pulse/Crushing Shock
Channeled Focus

Magden is more of a two-bar class for me, so as to get enough healing.

SirAndy · September 2019

Morimizo wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

I like the option for my stam sorc to finally have a pet and access to the max health and for summoned pet makimg stam sorc feel like the classic older es game sorcerer that uses bound weapons blades summons and armor

A better solution to provide a summon for StamSorc would have been to have the Clannfear (and Scamp) scale to whichever stat was highest on your character, a mechanic that is available on a few other skills already. That way no player loses what they have on Live, but those without, gain. The damage could be poison/physical, or fire/frost/lightning.
But that would be adding something, and this dev team wishes only to take away.

That seems like the obvious way to do this right but ZOS has shown over and over again that they neither do the obvious nor the right.

Aerenel · September 2019

That would be cool but would also unbalance stamsorc in far too strong a way. The new bound armaments is a stam skill that costs stam to reactivate multiple times.

Your proposed clannfear would effectively be a mag skill, because its passive damage would only be maximized with daedric prey uptime. It would lead to the same imbalance issue as when stamsorcs were spamming daedric prey at the beginning of spider synergy meta: infinite sustain that no other class could replicate.

SirAndy · September 2019

Aerenel wrote: »

That would be cool but would also unbalance stamsorc in far too strong a way. The new bound armaments is a stam skill that costs stam to reactivate multiple times.
Your proposed clannfear would effectively be a mag skill, because its passive damage would only be maximized with daedric prey uptime. It would lead to the same imbalance issue as when stamsorcs were spamming daedric prey at the beginning of spider synergy meta: infinite sustain that no other class could replicate.

Takes literally two lines of code to fix that, if one was so inclined.

Also, as far as i know, the Clannfear was never meant to be a high damage dealer. For me the damage part was always tertiary, i use(d) it for the soft taunt and the burst heal.

Elsonso · September 2019

Tia413 wrote: »

After sitting here for close to 12 hours reading over the PTS Feedback threads and other threads posted on the PTS Forums, trying to find a glimmer of hope, all I have seen is a lot of Stam build types and PvPers talk. They way out number the Casual PvE non-endgamers and Endgamers.

I recommend only small doses of forum negativity at a time!

It is super easy to get overwhelmed and depressed reading the forums. People who are really enjoying ESO, and have no issues with PTS, are not well represented here, so others tend to think that everyone is in agreement.

Tia413 · September 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

Sorry Kanicki (my magplar) and Natiara (my magden) I loved you both and you will be missed.
And I will miss some of you that I have met here on the forums.

If I had to play single-bar, I'd probably choose magplar, using all but one of:

I have considered this option too. But MagPlar is getting pretty ripped too.

And my MagSorc is my Master Crafter, knows the most Recipes and Furnishing Recipes. Has the most Achievements. Has finished Main Quests, Silver and Gold, Wrothgar, TG, and DB.

My MagPlar is only on Silver.

I just don't know if I could turn my back on my MagSorc, after working so hard on her and given the fact that I am not sure how much longer I even want to continue to play this game. That all depends on what happens in U24.

This requires some serious consideration. * Reaches for bottle of Tylenol* This is gonna make my head hurt

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

Tia413 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

Sorry Kanicki (my magplar) and Natiara (my magden) I loved you both and you will be missed.
And I will miss some of you that I have met here on the forums.

If I had to play single-bar, I'd probably choose magplar, using all but one of:

I have considered this option too. But MagPlar is getting pretty ripped too.

And my MagSorc is my Master Crafter, knows the most Recipes and Furnishing Recipes. Has the most Achievements. Has finished Tam Quests, Silver and Gold, Wrothgar, TG, and DB.

My MagPlar is only on Silver.

I just don't know if I could turn my back on my MagSorc, after working so hard on her and given the fact that I am not sure how much longer I even want to continue to play this game. That all depends on what happens in U24.

This requires some serious consideration. * Reaches for bottle of Tylenol* This is gonna make my head hurt

I like having multiple main-level or at least rather capable characters. It lets me roll better with the rebalancing punches. In particular:

My original main, current main crafter, etc. is Breton sorcerer.
My first character to Undaunted 9 was a Breton sorcerer.
My best healers are two Breton Magplars.
Those four are the characters I currently have at Undaunted 9-10.
For a while my landscape main was a Bosmer stamblade thief, based on an RP character I had in the early 1990s.
His name has been changed to Grumpy Ex Wood Elf.
I played magblade for it toward the end of their overpowered period.
I've actually healed on all six classes. Indeed, my first ICP clear was on an Imperial vampire DK. (I figured he was good enough for Spindleclutch 1, and the group asked me to heal the other pledges that day for them too.)
I have 15 characters that have cleared 7 or more dungeons each.
All 17 of my characters have gotten the skill points from Crow's Wood, Forgotten Crypts and Razak's Wheel. And they've each done a lot more public dungeons than that.
Only my original main has ever bothered to kill Molag Bal.

barney2525 · September 2019

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Lol

Aurielle wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

Good. No more wings flapping around the vault and writ hand ins

Actually, I'm planning on getting all my crafting alts with possible pets (i only have one sorc but a few wardens and NB) slot their pets and have them summon in popular crafting areas on purpose,

Matriarch, Bear, even Shades, they will be all out

Just as a friendly reminder that balance changes shouldn't revolve around how annoying something can be at a crafting station or bank.

I suggest all other Pet classes mains to do the same, just for the giggle

Edit for tyos

LMAO, that is not why pet sorcs were nerfed. It’s just a happy coincidence that crafting stations will feature fewer targeting nightmares. Twilight Matriarch was overperforming, and that is why it was nerfed. Excellent DOT, excellent burst heal, and a mobile source of LOS. Name any other skill in the game that does all three of those things just as well as Twilight Matriarch.

So you're pretty much against class identity? Because Sorcs don't have wings nor cloak either.

So let's just make all skills the same, if not they're "overperforming". Let's make every class throw balls at each other. They will only look different based on the color of the ball so we have snowballs, sandballs, mudballs and so on. That's it, the game is balanced

Oh, lets go a step or two further.

Just have one skill set. Just have one set of passives (no racial passives). All armor and weapons do exactly the same protection/damage.

So you can customize your race, what you look like, what your armor looks like, and what your weapons look like.

NOW we are Really balanced

SirAndy · September 2019

lordrichter wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

After sitting here for close to 12 hours reading over the PTS Feedback threads and other threads posted on the PTS Forums, trying to find a glimmer of hope, all I have seen is a lot of Stam build types and PvPers talk. They way out number the Casual PvE non-endgamers and Endgamers.

I recommend only small doses of forum negativity at a time! It is super easy to get overwhelmed and depressed reading the forums. People who are really enjoying ESO, and have no issues with PTS, are not well represented here, so others tend to think that everyone is in agreement.

People are concerned because the changes affect their gameplay negatively.

What good is it that there are people out there that are happy? That doesn't make your problems go away, now does it?

Callie-Brie · September 2019

Pet Sorc here, the only class that I enjoyed doing end-game content. Thanks to @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler leading the combat team, I have gone from 43K solo DPS (unbuffed dummy) at the start of "the year of the Dragon", to now on PTS getting about 31K DPS. Why am I supposed to be happy with this? I don't PvP on this build, and now all of my PvE guilds are falling apart. Please stop nerfing me because Hodor was able to complete vSS HM!

Definitely won't be spending money on this game anymore, and will instead be moving over to FFXIV.

Thanks for making that decision so easy!

ZonasArch · September 2019

Callie-Brie wrote: »

Pet Sorc here, the only class that I enjoyed doing end-game content. Thanks to @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler leading the combat team, I have gone from 43K solo DPS (unbuffed dummy) at the start of "the year of the Dragon", to now on PTS getting about 31K DPS. Why am I supposed to be happy with this? I don't PvP on this build, and now all of my PvE guilds are falling apart. Please stop nerfing me because Hodor was able to complete vSS HM!

Definitely won't be spending money on this game anymore, and will instead be moving over to FFXIV.

Thanks for making that decision so easy!

Did you change your rotation? Did you try to adapt? Because your numbers are definitely not what people have been seeing after switching around a few skills...

Moloch1514 · September 2019

ZonasArch wrote: »

Callie-Brie wrote: »

Pet Sorc here, the only class that I enjoyed doing end-game content. Thanks to @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler leading the combat team, I have gone from 43K solo DPS (unbuffed dummy) at the start of "the year of the Dragon", to now on PTS getting about 31K DPS. Why am I supposed to be happy with this? I don't PvP on this build, and now all of my PvE guilds are falling apart. Please stop nerfing me because Hodor was able to complete vSS HM!

Definitely won't be spending money on this game anymore, and will instead be moving over to FFXIV.

Thanks for making that decision so easy!

Did you change your rotation? Did you try to adapt? Because your numbers are definitely not what people have been seeing after switching around a few skills...

Yes. What are people doing with a 2 pet mag sorc now to get improved results on unbuffed dummy?

Callie-Brie · September 2019

ZonasArch wrote: »

Callie-Brie wrote: »

Pet Sorc here, the only class that I enjoyed doing end-game content. Thanks to @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler leading the combat team, I have gone from 43K solo DPS (unbuffed dummy) at the start of "the year of the Dragon", to now on PTS getting about 31K DPS. Why am I supposed to be happy with this? I don't PvP on this build, and now all of my PvE guilds are falling apart. Please stop nerfing me because Hodor was able to complete vSS HM!

Definitely won't be spending money on this game anymore, and will instead be moving over to FFXIV.

Thanks for making that decision so easy!

Did you change your rotation? Did you try to adapt? Because your numbers are definitely not what people have been seeing after switching around a few skills...

Yes/Yes. Please enlighten us @ZonasArch. What "few skills switched around" should I implement to not lose 10-12K DPS since January? Running Mother's Sorrow/Necro with Zaan/Illambris/Maw of Infernal/Skoria as monster sets.

Lasinagol · September 2019

After watching a stamsorc do around 110k against the iron atronach I am seriously tempted to change my 400+skill point magsorc into stamina base and leaving him as Altmer. Bound armaments is awesome...but, the Clannfear...the skill goes from scamp to more powerful scamp or to a clan fear. The Twilight goes from a weak twilight to a specialized twilight. Why not make the scamp into a living armor with a meme of the monkey on your back? Maybe not as jokingly serious, but a living daedric armor fits into lore.

Morgha_Kul · September 2019

I'll point out that I'm getting around 2k dps. Moaning to me about how you can "only" do 30k dps isn't going to convince me of anything.

Callie-Brie · September 2019

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I'll point out that I'm getting around 2k dps. Moaning to me about how you can "only" do 30k dps isn't going to convince me of anything.

And I am sure you can do overland questing just fine. Consider adding a skill or two into your light and heavy attack rotation and you can even do some normal dungeons.

Dalsinthus · September 2019

Moloch1514 wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Callie-Brie wrote: »

Pet Sorc here, the only class that I enjoyed doing end-game content. Thanks to @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler leading the combat team, I have gone from 43K solo DPS (unbuffed dummy) at the start of "the year of the Dragon", to now on PTS getting about 31K DPS. Why am I supposed to be happy with this? I don't PvP on this build, and now all of my PvE guilds are falling apart. Please stop nerfing me because Hodor was able to complete vSS HM!

Definitely won't be spending money on this game anymore, and will instead be moving over to FFXIV.

Thanks for making that decision so easy!

Did you change your rotation? Did you try to adapt? Because your numbers are definitely not what people have been seeing after switching around a few skills...

Yes. What are people doing with a 2 pet mag sorc now to get improved results on unbuffed dummy?

For all the white knighting Zonas has been doing for ZOS, I have yet to find a recommendation on how our builds are going to magically do the same DPS as Wrathstone or Elsweyr.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

Specific feedback:

1. The Twilight Matriarch special ability is a very good heal. Thank you.
2. But as of now the skill takes TWO bar slots. To justify the second slot, please increase damage.
3. There are suggestions in necro/vulnerability discussions to compete with the necro ultimate by making the atronach's Major Berserk buff group-wide. That's a great idea, and would even strengthen sorcerer healers.
4. That said, it would be nice if the synergy were ranged. Indeed, let one morph have a ranged synergy and one have a melee one, and make the melee one something that stam sorcerers would like.
5. Dialing the Daedric Prey buff back up would be nice.
6. In the long run, however, pets need to be single-barred. Please do the coding so that they can be single-barred yet persistent. Having two double-slot skills takes a lot of the fun out of playing the class.

ZonasArch · September 2019

.

ZonasArch · September 2019

Callie-Brie wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Callie-Brie wrote: »

Pet Sorc here, the only class that I enjoyed doing end-game content. Thanks to @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler leading the combat team, I have gone from 43K solo DPS (unbuffed dummy) at the start of "the year of the Dragon", to now on PTS getting about 31K DPS. Why am I supposed to be happy with this? I don't PvP on this build, and now all of my PvE guilds are falling apart. Please stop nerfing me because Hodor was able to complete vSS HM!

Definitely won't be spending money on this game anymore, and will instead be moving over to FFXIV.

Thanks for making that decision so easy!

Did you change your rotation? Did you try to adapt? Because your numbers are definitely not what people have been seeing after switching around a few skills...

Yes/Yes. Please enlighten us @ZonasArch. What "few skills switched around" should I implement to not lose 10-12K DPS since January? Running Mother's Sorrow/Necro with Zaan/Illambris/Maw of Infernal/Skoria as monster sets.

If you can't find out, chase the meta, people will figure it out for you(forum, Reddit, YouTube, twitch). I don't play sorc, I can't help you, and I wouldn't even if I could, it's up to you to work on your own build. I don't tell people how to play their own games.

If you're in a group with me, I don't mind if you're not top dog, I only mind that you're enjoying the game. If your requirement is higher than mine, I'm definitely not the one you need to ask what to do.

Btw, if you lost 10-12k DPS and you're running those sets, you're likely a meta chasers with skills. Unskilled chasers won't lose 10k DPS because that's all they can do, set or no set, nerf or no nerf. Why not use your skills to keep digging? Maybe you can come up with next meta?

Or... You can be happy with what you have for another month, spend the first week of update looking around for what to do, and go back to being ok again.

I'm not losing this bet, DPS will still be fine even if it goes down.. it'll probably go down by a little bit, but nothing more than a little bit.

jwarren68 · September 2019

[/quote]...I don't play sorc, I can't help you, and I wouldn't even if I could,...[/quote]

Why are you here?

ZonasArch · September 2019

jwarren68 wrote: »

...I don't play sorc, I can't help you, and I wouldn't even if I could,...[/quote]

Why are you here?

[/quote]

It was more of an oversimplification of my knowledge than anything.

Also, why so rude? Chill.

Also also, there are other related sub-topics (overarching maybe?) being discussed, but you are somewhat correct in your assessment, and my participation here is a consequence of derailing, therefore I'll refrain from derailing it further.

And I do play sorc, just not really. I have a pelinal sorc that works nicely but I haven't played with her in a while, and my other sorc I never touched after getting to 50. It's a pet sorc, too.