Bound Armaments
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Burtan✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.Edited by Burtan on September 21, 2019 2:19PM3 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"2 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.PC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.0 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.Edited by Trian94 on September 21, 2019 3:13PMPC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn1 -
LeoSzilard✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".Edited by LeoSzilard on September 21, 2019 3:40PM2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭LeoSzilard wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
Situational dmg increase. For bound armament to do more dmg than a spammable, it need to land all daggers and if a spammable crit, all 4 daggers need to crit to be able get higher dmg than spammable. In pve situation, this a not a problem, but in pvp how ever, people can dodge/block at least 1 dagger and make the proc worse than spamable, just my thoughts.
I always liked bound armaments before and now, mainly for the deadric protection passive and skill passive and not active skill.1 -
LeoSzilard✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »LeoSzilard wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
Situational dmg increase. For bound armament to do more dmg than a spammable, it need to land all daggers and if a spammable crit, all 4 daggers need to crit to be able get higher dmg than spammable. In pve situation, this a not a problem, but in pvp how ever, people can dodge/block at least 1 dagger and make the proc worse than spamable, just my thoughts.
I always liked bound armaments before and now, mainly for the deadric protection passive and skill passive and not active skill.
Yes, I agree with that. If you cannot land all four, then rip.1 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭LeoSzilard wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
What is true is that is easier to crit on one single spammable than in four dagger attacks.
What is also true is that does more damage than a single spammable.
But the thing is, this skill takes two GCDs so should be more fair to compare damage with two spammable attacks. And the damage then will be lower.1 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭LeoSzilard wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".LeoSzilard wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
It's a build up burst ability in its nature like grim focus so it needs to do similar damage to be effective and also to be faster than it is cause the GCD it takes on top of the full dmg being dealt over 1.2 seconds makes it clunky af. If it stays as it is it's not worth using. Tested it and can confirm. You will never burst anyone decent with that ability as it is now on the pts so it's not worth it atm.PC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn1 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeoSzilard wrote: »If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
On pts using metrics my dizzy swing even with the damage nerf still usually hit harder than armaments. Even if armaments hit consitently harder, I still don't see it being worth it. As Trian said, it should do much more damage just like similar class skills do, because it has a few issues and the weak damage isn't making up for them.
Edited by Crixus8000 on September 21, 2019 6:53PM1 -
LeoSzilard✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »LeoSzilard wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
What is true is that is easier to crit on one single spammable than in four dagger attacks.
What is also true is that does more damage than a single spammable.
But the thing is, this skill takes two GCDs so should be more fair to compare damage with two spammable attacks. And the damage then will be lower.
Do you mean one global cooldown to initialize the skill and one cooldown to fire it? The 40s duration greatly offsets the global cooldown to initialize...at least that was probably the thought of the combat team. But, if you go on the defense or otherwise can't keep up light attacks, the skill falls off in 10 seconds. So in that case, the cooldown to initialize the skill adds a good bit of extra overhead.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭LeoSzilard wrote: »
Do you mean one global cooldown to initialize the skill and one cooldown to fire it? The 40s duration greatly offsets the global cooldown to initialize...at least that was probably the thought of the combat team. But, if you go on the defense or otherwise can't keep up light attacks, the skill falls off in 10 seconds. So in that case, the cooldown to initialize the skill adds a good bit of extra overhead.
Yes. You need two GCDs for this skill. But please explain me how a skill lasting more will offset the loss of a GCD. Sure, daggers being up for many seconds will be good to choose the right time to fire them, and lets you keep using it if activated on a "bad" time where you cannot do LAs, but apart from that... you don´t get more daggers after firing them, you don´t get anything more.
It´s two GCDs wasted on a skill which deals a bit more damage than a spammable, close to what a DoT does in more or less same time between arming and so. But DoTS do more damage so for good rotations if you slot Armaments, you shouldn´t use it. You would slot it for passives.
Right now, a waste of an active skill, and 1% LA dmg nerf on the passive. It brings class identity though and it´s a good step towards it. Now it just needs to deal more damage to be effective, or simply take one GCD out.
To me, this skill shouldn´t need activation. Every time you do a LA (put a % if you want it slower), you get a dagger. Then the active skill firing them all. Once they´re fired, if you dont want it to goes too fast, put a couple seconds or more of no creating daggers. Now that would be a good skill.
2 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
Your point still stands? Your whole position was wrong during the entire discussion...
As far as I can tell bound armaments has a mediocre cast (still better than a standard spammable, especially damage/cost wise) but amazing passives (if you count the daedric summoning passives). Thats why it still looks like a worthwile skill to me.
Still, how does the ability interact with dodge and block? Does it count as a projectile (how does it interact with spellwall, defensive stance, reflective scales, shimmering shield, ...)?
I'm thinking about creating a hybrid sorc next patch.
Edit: precast looks like the biggest problem to me. The idea of Saril to passively get daggers while slotted sounds neat.Edited by HankTwo on September 21, 2019 6:12PMPC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK1 -
Celestro✭✭✭I definitely agree with Saril's suggestion. So simple yet effective. It'll still retain the same amount of damage, so not much of a literal buff as far as the numbers go but makes it useful for both PvE and PvP in that case. It also kind of pushes it more in Crystal Frags direction with the % trigger, so it won't overlap as badly with NB's skill.Edited by Celestro on September 21, 2019 7:08PM0
-
LeoSzilard✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »LeoSzilard wrote: »
Do you mean one global cooldown to initialize the skill and one cooldown to fire it? The 40s duration greatly offsets the global cooldown to initialize...at least that was probably the thought of the combat team. But, if you go on the defense or otherwise can't keep up light attacks, the skill falls off in 10 seconds. So in that case, the cooldown to initialize the skill adds a good bit of extra overhead.
Yes. You need two GCDs for this skill. But please explain me how a skill lasting more will offset the loss of a GCD. Sure, daggers being up for many seconds will be good to choose the right time to fire them, and lets you keep using it if activated on a "bad" time where you cannot do LAs, but apart from that... you don´t get more daggers after firing them, you don´t get anything more.
It´s two GCDs wasted on a skill which deals a bit more damage than a spammable, close to what a DoT does in more or less same time between arming and so. But DoTS do more damage so for good rotations if you slot Armaments, you shouldn´t use it. You would slot it for passives.
Right now, a waste of an active skill, and 1% LA dmg nerf on the passive. It brings class identity though and it´s a good step towards it. Now it just needs to deal more damage to be effective, or simply take one GCD out.
To me, this skill shouldn´t need activation. Every time you do a LA (put a % if you want it slower), you get a dagger. Then the active skill firing them all. Once they´re fired, if you dont want it to goes too fast, put a couple seconds or more of no creating daggers. Now that would be a good skill.
Here's how the impact of the global cooldown consumption to initialize the skill becomes smaller as the duration of the skill increases. Suppose that S is the overhead cost of keeping a skill active. Then the resource cost per second, S, is inversely proportional to the duration of the skill, t. Thus:
S = C*1/t, where C is a proportionality constant. In this case, it's the resource cost of activation.
Similarly, you can consider the expression for S as being the cost in time. Then, the expression simply gives you the proportion of time that you spend keeping the skill active. So, what's the limit as t -> infinity? Zero. So the cost in resources or the cost in time to keep a skill active decreases inversely with the duration of the skill. It should be obvious.Edited by LeoSzilard on September 21, 2019 11:19PM0 -
LeoSzilard✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »
My proposed change.
Here’s the way the skill currently works. I’ll put it in terms of your suggestion.
“Duration: 40 seconds
Once active, your light attacks have a 100% chance to summon a Bound Weapon for 10 seconds...Once the weapons have been fired, begin accumulating new Bound weapons immediately.”
The FORTY second duration is seriously that upsetting that you’d propose a ridiculous version of the skill that has a 50% proc chance and 5 second cooldown but infinite duration? This has to be a troll.4 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
Your point still stands? Your whole position was wrong during the entire discussion...
As far as I can tell bound armaments has a mediocre cast (still better than a standard spammable, especially damage/cost wise) but amazing passives (if you count the daedric summoning passives). Thats why it still looks like a worthwile skill to me.
Still, how does the ability interact with dodge and block? Does it count as a projectile (how does it interact with spellwall, defensive stance, reflective scales, shimmering shield, ...)?
I'm thinking about creating a hybrid sorc next patch.
Edit: precast looks like the biggest problem to me. The idea of Saril to passively get daggers while slotted sounds neat.
I've tested it thouroughly, it's not a worth skill to use unless it's damage is buffed
PC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn1 -
LeoSzilard✭✭✭The biggest problem that I have with BA is that the damage is divided into separate ticks. The sum of the damage is superior to a spammable ability on paper; however, crit chance poses a very big problem. Consider a single source of damage with a 50% crit chance. The probability of that attack being a critical strike is 0.5^1=0.5 or 50%. For BA, the attack is split into four independent damage sources. With a 50% crit chance, the probability of ALL of the BA daggers being a critical strike is 0.5^4=0.0625 or 6.25%. This will kill the dps potential in PvE and cause the skill to lose almost all kill potential in PvP. Rapid Strikes, incidentally, suffers from a similar problem; however, Rapid Strikes is helped tremendously by the fact that the final tick of damage is so much higher than the other ticks. Thus, with respect to crit chance, it functions a little bit more like a single source of damage. I do NOT think that buffing the damage is the answer. The fundamental problem is that the skill has too much volatility because of each hit being an independent event with respect to crit chance.
If each of the crit chance of each dagger were NOT independent, then I don't think that we would have a problem. Similarly, if the skill dealt one tick of direct damage, it would be fine. But as long as the skill delivers multiple independent damage ticks, players will complain that the skill feels like a) it doesn't do enough damage b) it does way too much damage if all of the daggers happen to crit.
Does that make sense?0 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭LeoSzilard wrote: »The biggest problem that I have with BA is that the damage is divided into separate ticks. The sum of the damage is superior to a spammable ability on paper; however, crit chance poses a very big problem. Consider a single source of damage with a 50% crit chance. The probability of that attack being a critical strike is 0.5^1=0.5 or 50%. For BA, the attack is split into four independent damage sources. With a 50% crit chance, the probability of ALL of the BA daggers being a critical strike is 0.5^4=0.0625 or 6.25%. This will kill the dps potential in PvE and cause the skill to lose almost all kill potential in PvP. Rapid Strikes, incidentally, suffers from a similar problem; however, Rapid Strikes is helped tremendously by the fact that the final tick of damage is so much higher than the other ticks. Thus, with respect to crit chance, it functions a little bit more like a single source of damage. I do NOT think that buffing the damage is the answer. The fundamental problem is that the skill has too much volatility because of each hit being an independent event with respect to crit chance.
If each of the crit chance of each dagger were NOT independent, then I don't think that we would have a problem. Similarly, if the skill dealt one tick of direct damage, it would be fine. But as long as the skill delivers multiple independent damage ticks, players will complain that the skill feels like a) it doesn't do enough damage b) it does way too much damage if all of the daggers happen to crit.
Does that make sense?
Yes it does. I've had all the daggers crit in a duel test and it still didnt do enough damagePC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn1 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »~
In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.
If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.
It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.
Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
Wow.
You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?
There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:
LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.
Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.
You'll also note the time stamps ...
41.139s: Light Attack
41.303s: Bound Armaments
41.530s: Bash
It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.
your 2 weaves = 2.9s
my 2 weaves 1.5s
I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.
As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.
This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
Your point still stands? Your whole position was wrong during the entire discussion...
As far as I can tell bound armaments has a mediocre cast (still better than a standard spammable, especially damage/cost wise) but amazing passives (if you count the daedric summoning passives). Thats why it still looks like a worthwile skill to me.
Still, how does the ability interact with dodge and block? Does it count as a projectile (how does it interact with spellwall, defensive stance, reflective scales, shimmering shield, ...)?
I'm thinking about creating a hybrid sorc next patch.
Edit: precast looks like the biggest problem to me. The idea of Saril to passively get daggers while slotted sounds neat.
I've tested it thouroughly, it's not a worth skill to use unless it's damage is buffed
So, what are your test results when it comes to block, dodge and projectile reflection/absorption/mitigation?PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭LeoSzilard wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »LeoSzilard wrote: »
Do you mean one global cooldown to initialize the skill and one cooldown to fire it? The 40s duration greatly offsets the global cooldown to initialize...at least that was probably the thought of the combat team. But, if you go on the defense or otherwise can't keep up light attacks, the skill falls off in 10 seconds. So in that case, the cooldown to initialize the skill adds a good bit of extra overhead.
Yes. You need two GCDs for this skill. But please explain me how a skill lasting more will offset the loss of a GCD. Sure, daggers being up for many seconds will be good to choose the right time to fire them, and lets you keep using it if activated on a "bad" time where you cannot do LAs, but apart from that... you don´t get more daggers after firing them, you don´t get anything more.
It´s two GCDs wasted on a skill which deals a bit more damage than a spammable, close to what a DoT does in more or less same time between arming and so. But DoTS do more damage so for good rotations if you slot Armaments, you shouldn´t use it. You would slot it for passives.
Right now, a waste of an active skill, and 1% LA dmg nerf on the passive. It brings class identity though and it´s a good step towards it. Now it just needs to deal more damage to be effective, or simply take one GCD out.
To me, this skill shouldn´t need activation. Every time you do a LA (put a % if you want it slower), you get a dagger. Then the active skill firing them all. Once they´re fired, if you dont want it to goes too fast, put a couple seconds or more of no creating daggers. Now that would be a good skill.
Here's how the impact of the global cooldown consumption to initialize the skill becomes smaller as the duration of the skill increases. Suppose that S is the overhead cost of keeping a skill active. Then the resource cost per second, S, is inversely proportional to the duration of the skill, t. Thus:
S = C*1/t, where C is a proportionality constant. In this case, it's the resource cost of activation.
Similarly, you can consider the expression for S as being the cost in time. Then, the expression simply gives you the proportion of time that you spend keeping the skill active. So, what's the limit as t -> infinity? Zero. So the cost in resources or the cost in time to keep a skill active decreases inversely with the duration of the skill. It should be obvious.
You´re considering only the resource cost; i´m talking about damage you lose, which atm is more important. Futhermore, if the skill last longer but the effect only works once, the duration isn´t that important. Now, if the skill kept summoning daggers during all duration (you fire daggers, skill keeps working and summoning) then yeah, the cost would impact. But that´s not the case. You will probably firing the skill around 5 seconds after casted so...0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭LeoSzilard wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »
My proposed change.
Here’s the way the skill currently works. I’ll put it in terms of your suggestion.
“Duration: 40 seconds
Once active, your light attacks have a 100% chance to summon a Bound Weapon for 10 seconds...Once the weapons have been fired, begin accumulating new Bound weapons immediately.”
The FORTY second duration is seriously that upsetting that you’d propose a ridiculous version of the skill that has a 50% proc chance and 5 second cooldown but infinite duration? This has to be a troll.
I perfectly know what im suggesting. With the activation cost its way easier to control the damage versus GCD versus cost of the skill. Standarization, huh? On my way, you pay for a delayed dot, costs X and deals Y. Very easy to know if it´s affordable/worth or not.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »LeoSzilard wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »LeoSzilard wrote: »
Do you mean one global cooldown to initialize the skill and one cooldown to fire it? The 40s duration greatly offsets the global cooldown to initialize...at least that was probably the thought of the combat team. But, if you go on the defense or otherwise can't keep up light attacks, the skill falls off in 10 seconds. So in that case, the cooldown to initialize the skill adds a good bit of extra overhead.
Yes. You need two GCDs for this skill. But please explain me how a skill lasting more will offset the loss of a GCD. Sure, daggers being up for many seconds will be good to choose the right time to fire them, and lets you keep using it if activated on a "bad" time where you cannot do LAs, but apart from that... you don´t get more daggers after firing them, you don´t get anything more.
It´s two GCDs wasted on a skill which deals a bit more damage than a spammable, close to what a DoT does in more or less same time between arming and so. But DoTS do more damage so for good rotations if you slot Armaments, you shouldn´t use it. You would slot it for passives.
Right now, a waste of an active skill, and 1% LA dmg nerf on the passive. It brings class identity though and it´s a good step towards it. Now it just needs to deal more damage to be effective, or simply take one GCD out.
To me, this skill shouldn´t need activation. Every time you do a LA (put a % if you want it slower), you get a dagger. Then the active skill firing them all. Once they´re fired, if you dont want it to goes too fast, put a couple seconds or more of no creating daggers. Now that would be a good skill.
Here's how the impact of the global cooldown consumption to initialize the skill becomes smaller as the duration of the skill increases. Suppose that S is the overhead cost of keeping a skill active. Then the resource cost per second, S, is inversely proportional to the duration of the skill, t. Thus:
S = C*1/t, where C is a proportionality constant. In this case, it's the resource cost of activation.
Similarly, you can consider the expression for S as being the cost in time. Then, the expression simply gives you the proportion of time that you spend keeping the skill active. So, what's the limit as t -> infinity? Zero. So the cost in resources or the cost in time to keep a skill active decreases inversely with the duration of the skill. It should be obvious.
You´re considering only the resource cost; i´m talking about damage you lose, which atm is more important. Futhermore, if the skill last longer but the effect only works once, the duration isn´t that important. Now, if the skill kept summoning daggers during all duration (you fire daggers, skill keeps working and summoning) then yeah, the cost would impact. But that´s not the case. You will probably firing the skill around 5 seconds after casted so...
What is not the case? The skill literally does that. You get 40s and you can fire the daggers as many times you want or is possible to fit in that duration.1 -
LeoSzilard✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »LeoSzilard wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »LeoSzilard wrote: »
Do you mean one global cooldown to initialize the skill and one cooldown to fire it? The 40s duration greatly offsets the global cooldown to initialize...at least that was probably the thought of the combat team. But, if you go on the defense or otherwise can't keep up light attacks, the skill falls off in 10 seconds. So in that case, the cooldown to initialize the skill adds a good bit of extra overhead.
Yes. You need two GCDs for this skill. But please explain me how a skill lasting more will offset the loss of a GCD. Sure, daggers being up for many seconds will be good to choose the right time to fire them, and lets you keep using it if activated on a "bad" time where you cannot do LAs, but apart from that... you don´t get more daggers after firing them, you don´t get anything more.
It´s two GCDs wasted on a skill which deals a bit more damage than a spammable, close to what a DoT does in more or less same time between arming and so. But DoTS do more damage so for good rotations if you slot Armaments, you shouldn´t use it. You would slot it for passives.
Right now, a waste of an active skill, and 1% LA dmg nerf on the passive. It brings class identity though and it´s a good step towards it. Now it just needs to deal more damage to be effective, or simply take one GCD out.
To me, this skill shouldn´t need activation. Every time you do a LA (put a % if you want it slower), you get a dagger. Then the active skill firing them all. Once they´re fired, if you dont want it to goes too fast, put a couple seconds or more of no creating daggers. Now that would be a good skill.
Here's how the impact of the global cooldown consumption to initialize the skill becomes smaller as the duration of the skill increases. Suppose that S is the overhead cost of keeping a skill active. Then the resource cost per second, S, is inversely proportional to the duration of the skill, t. Thus:
S = C*1/t, where C is a proportionality constant. In this case, it's the resource cost of activation.
Similarly, you can consider the expression for S as being the cost in time. Then, the expression simply gives you the proportion of time that you spend keeping the skill active. So, what's the limit as t -> infinity? Zero. So the cost in resources or the cost in time to keep a skill active decreases inversely with the duration of the skill. It should be obvious.
You´re considering only the resource cost; i´m talking about damage you lose, which atm is more important. Futhermore, if the skill last longer but the effect only works once, the duration isn´t that important. Now, if the skill kept summoning daggers during all duration (you fire daggers, skill keeps working and summoning) then yeah, the cost would impact. But that´s not the case. You will probably firing the skill around 5 seconds after casted so...
Read my post again. I gave justification for cost in resources and cost in time spent consuming a global cooldown (i.e. “loss of damage” to maintain the skill). I’m thinking that you haven’t tested the skill...
“Now, if the skill kept summoning daggers during all duration (you fire daggers, skill keeps working and summoning) then yeah...But that’s not the case.”
Um...yes it absolutely is the case. That’s how the skill works. You haven’t actually tested it, huh?Edited by LeoSzilard on September 22, 2019 12:44PM0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Geez! Now i have to install PST server again... i tried it on first day and just reapplied every time after firing thinking it was done! The tooltip gave me that impression
.
Still thinking that using it each 40 seconds will create weird timings. Id rather prefer to activate just the proc, as i suggested. More simple and easier to quantify.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Geez! Now i have to install PST server again... i tried it on first day and just reapplied every time after firing thinking it was done! The tooltip gave me that impression .
Still thinking that using it each 40 seconds will create weird timings. Id rather prefer to activate just the proc, as i suggested. More simple and easier to quantify.
You will find it proc too often, making you think about double sloting to get the full benefit of it.1 -
LeoSzilard✭✭✭I think the mechanic of the skill works pretty much as advertised, and I don’t have much of a problem with that aspect of it. I think the audio and visual effects are crummy, but more importantly, it seems like a skill that can’t decide if it’s supposed to be a burst skill or a sustained dps skill. It’s sort of in between. The only thing that I’ll point out about the mechanics of the skill is that it suffers in lag. With low ping, it’s very responsive and the skill can be weaved pretty well. But with high ping it suffers.1
