Bound Armaments

DoonerSeraph

Remove the knife proc from the GCD, maybe?

jypcy

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Remove the knife proc from the GCD, maybe?

That or, similarly, making it cast automatically on your fifth light attack (like crushing weapon’s damage) The rest of the skill essentially focuses around performing light attacks anyway. And that way you’re able to combo its damage with a spammable, like other builds can do with curse/shalks/backlash/blastbones.

TBois

jypcy wrote: »

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Remove the knife proc from the GCD, maybe?

That or, similarly, making it cast automatically on your fifth light attack (like crushing weapon’s damage) The rest of the skill essentially focuses around performing light attacks anyway. And that way you’re able to combo its damage with a spammable, like other builds can do with curse/shalks/backlash/blastbones.

Yea they could also either delay the first hit for a bit or space the hits out to something like .5 sec (so all the damage happens over 2 sec, allowing a tiny bit more burst on the next spammable)

There are many ways to make this work without making it op. I hope zos takes a measured approach to adjusting this skill, but I'm not holding my breathe considering how they handled the needed dot nerf.

Ragnaroek93

Seems a bit underwhelming but the idea behind it is nice. Problem is that it's 4 hits and therefore it doesn't have much burst potential (burst potential comes from crits and it's unlikely that you crit all 4 hits).

Chilly-McFreeze

TBois wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Remove the knife proc from the GCD, maybe?

That or, similarly, making it cast automatically on your fifth light attack (like crushing weapon’s damage) The rest of the skill essentially focuses around performing light attacks anyway. And that way you’re able to combo its damage with a spammable, like other builds can do with curse/shalks/backlash/blastbones.

Yea they could also either delay the first hit for a bit

That would be optimal. ATM You can cast an instant attack between the third and fourth second and third (E: stupid me, it's late here already)dagger landing but things like Dizzy will land long after the final hit. It's a bit annoying for sure so if they delay by 0.3-0.6s it would be far better for bursting.

katorga

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Remove the knife proc from the GCD, maybe?

That or, similarly, making it cast automatically on your fifth light attack (like crushing weapon’s damage) The rest of the skill essentially focuses around performing light attacks anyway. And that way you’re able to combo its damage with a spammable, like other builds can do with curse/shalks/backlash/blastbones.

Yea they could also either delay the first hit for a bit

That would be optimal. ATM You can cast an insant attack between the third and fourth dagger landing but things like Dizzy will land long after the final hit. It's a bit annoying for sure so if they delay by 0.3-0.6s it would be far better for bursting.

Make the daggers fire either automatically with the fifth light attack or one dagger per light attack, while continuing to add more stacks. Then you could get a constant extra damage per light attack.

Zalathorm

This thread is hilarious.

How you expect zos to buff this skill when it's already loaded with too much on one ability is beyond me.

They have stated many times that they dont want one skill to do too much. Grim focus was nerfed because it granted passive damage and active damage. They switched it to just active damage, with a passive heal/defense utility. Good luck getting armaments buffed to "equal grim focus" as some have stated.

What a joke.

Trian94

Zalathorm wrote: »

This thread is hilarious.

How you expect zos to buff this skill when it's already loaded with too much on one ability is beyond me.

They have stated many times that they dont want one skill to do too much. Grim focus was nerfed because it granted passive damage and active damage. They switched it to just active damage, with a passive heal/defense utility. Good luck getting armaments buffed to "equal grim focus" as some have stated.

What a joke.

You almost got hilarious but it's clear as day that you came here to diminish the matter discussed, the concept of which clearly eludes you. Furthermore you ignored the part when we said it would be more worth to gain damage and lose the passives if the devs feel it gives too many things. If that's not enough look at the other abilities listed in a previous comment. They all have secondary effects superior to bound armaments and they aren't nerfed this patch, in fact backlash is buffed. Your argument is invalid and a joke (but not a funny one)

Sahidom

This skill proposal would be a better Grim Focus change than giving the mechanic to Stamina Sorcerers, as it would allow the class to hold up pressure with LA weaving while they regain Ultimate for another burst.

This skill works better with Bow than melee - the rapid bow LA lets you weave Bound Armament more fluidly; but it gets slightly more clunky with bar swapping in a rotation due to the reactivate high up time to maximize the benefits.

universal_wrath

Speed_Kills wrote: »

As I have discussed with the other stamsorcs in my discord, this skill needs to be usable... not OP. Don’t read “too weak” and give it a 200% buff, please make small tweaks each week of pts in order to get it to a good place of balance. Excited about setting up bound armor combos!

I discussed with myself about this skill. Ihave been using the ever since it was interduced while gave the deadric armor to now, the passive LA and stamina bonuses make up for the dmg it does since it already boost your over all dmg. Please don't butcher this skill. Ask for a dmg boos of the actual dmg of the skill will surly make zos take away either LA or stamina bonus. I would rather have the block mitigation if that is the case.

LiquidPony

Burtan wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

Would like to say that I think Armaments should do more damage than sub assault simply because it requires more effort.

If this means Armaments must lose the 8% stam then so be it.

Does anyone actually wonder how we keep getting closer and closer to a completely homogenized game?

People keep asking for it!

If you want Grim Focus, just play a Nightblade.

Burtan wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

Power Slam is not lower damage spammable. Its one of the strongest instant cast spammables dealing same damage as Cutting Dive and more than Venom Skull, Silver Shards, Crushing Weapon, Force Pulse (if you had matching stats), Lava Whip or even Surprise Attack. Literally everything that comes from your post is just.... not true
You have Armaments on your bar so you are already profiting from half the power of the skill you are complaining about. Every delayed attack in the game including all of the DoTs even pre nerf deal less damage over X time than spamming spammable for that duration.

I didn't say it did less than those, but it does do less than the likes of dizzying swing and surprise attack on average among the most common PvP builds. This is beside the point anyways.

Why would I use the Armaments proc when I get more damage from not wasting a gcd and going for another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo?

Bound Armaments does not do less damage than Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow. Nor does it do less damage than Power Slam, even according to the tooltips you posted.

Bound Armaments at 4 stacks would do 10,668 damage (non-crit) compared to the 8,000 tooltip from Power Slam. It also has the advantage of having a full 28m range.

Im not asking for this ability to be the same as grim focus, the fact is that it is already a similar ability and therefore should be comparable.

Armaments isnt a skill that can be regularly weaved with light attack and bash resulting in much less overall damage if you choose to cast it. You will get both more burst and more consitent dps by weaving a skill and ignoring armaments completely, at least in PvP.

For this ability to be viable it needs to have better burst or be redesigned entirely.

This makes literally zero sense. None at all.

When you activate the buff, it lasts for 40 seconds.

During that time, you do your thing, LA/Power Bash, whatever. When you have 4 stacks up, proc it. You can even proc it from range. It will do more damage than whatever spammable you've got on your bar (excepting maybe Snipe).

Meanwhile, you're also getting +8% stamina and +10% LA damage from having it slotted (and of course +20% Health Recovery, +20% Stamina Recovery, and +2% Weapon Damage passively).

universal_wrath

katorga wrote: »

Bound armaments needs to have its damage buffed by about 15% (+/- 5%), and keep the light attack and stam bonus.

Here is why:

- A warden will be running a default 22% damage increase on sub assault for example, 6% increased damage from slotting assault, bird of prey and swarm, 8% minor vuln, 8% berserk compared to 5% increase damage on sorc.
- Sub assault gets another 8% damage from major fracture applied by the ability itself. Nothing on sorc.
- Sub Assault hits the target off the GCD allowing you to time and stack burst. This is why it is sooo good.
- Slotting sub assault gives 2% damage increase, 12% mag/stam regen, Ultimate return on cast, Stam return on cast compared to 2% weapon dmg, 8% stam increase, 10% light attack dmg, 20% stam/health regen...close, but advantage warden
- Warden gets 10% increased health from healing himself, Sorc gets 8% while daggers are up, roughly equal

Oh yea, forgot, sub assault is AOE....so it can be up to 6 times more powerful than Bound Armaments or Relentless Focus.

This is on a class with built in major/minor protection, major mending, major heroism, good projectile damage shields, as of 5.2, very good class spammable, none of which stam sorc has. I'm too lazy to do the same comparison with Stamblade, or Stamcro, but you get the picture.

If the new Bound armaments is "overloaded", then sub assault is even more so and is in dire need of a nerf based on the very arguments made in this thread.

That is not true. You are comparing 1 skill with class passive to another one. That is not how it works.

Bound armament does about the same dmg as sub assault. Bound armament is 28m single target while sub assault is 15m aoe. Bound armament is cheaper cost than sub assault. Bound armament us controled burst like grim focus as you get to keep the proc and use it whenever you need it, while sub assault is on timer. Bound armament provide passive LA 10% bonus and 8% max stamina bonus while sloted, while sub assault provide major fracture (8% dmg bonus) for 5 secs after using the skill. Each skill that it's pros and cons and that is good, that is what makes them different.

As for the class passive, that is another issue should not be included while comparing the actual skills. Everyone knows the sorcer passives have become weeker over the years and did not recieve a proper adjusment. Stam sorc only benefit from 7-8 passives out of 12 of its toolkit, even mag sorc currently is having problems making use of its class passive; while stam/mag wardens are able to make use 11-12 passive of their toolkit.

HowlKimchi

Since the damage happens over a short time, I think combining this with a good CC (the fear one of the fighter's guild) and an execute should be good.

As a magblade main, I'm excited to make a stamsorc and have a pretty cool playstyle finally!

Crixus8000

I don't understand how people can say the bound armaments proc isn't weak ? Just go on pts and use it against someone, the damage is bascially pointless.

If it hits less than a spammble then why even bother ? It has no secondary affect of any kind so if I chose to use this in combat I would just be lowering my damage against the opponent.

Crixus8000

HaruKamui wrote: »

Since the damage happens over a short time, I think combining this with a good CC (the fear one of the fighter's guild) and an execute should be good.

As a magblade main, I'm excited to make a stamsorc and have a pretty cool playstyle finally!

Why bother though. If I cc'd someone I would rather use ult or even just my normal spammable since I wouldn't be trying to look cool but would rather try to kill my opponent and this skill would just be the worst option to use in that situation since it's damage isn't good at all.

Zalathorm

Trian94 wrote: »

Zalathorm wrote: »

This thread is hilarious.

How you expect zos to buff this skill when it's already loaded with too much on one ability is beyond me.

They have stated many times that they dont want one skill to do too much. Grim focus was nerfed because it granted passive damage and active damage. They switched it to just active damage, with a passive heal/defense utility. Good luck getting armaments buffed to "equal grim focus" as some have stated.

What a joke.

You almost got hilarious but it's clear as day that you came here to diminish the matter discussed, the concept of which clearly eludes you. Furthermore you ignored the part when we said it would be more worth to gain damage and lose the passives if the devs feel it gives too many things. If that's not enough look at the other abilities listed in a previous comment. They all have secondary effects superior to bound armaments and they aren't nerfed this patch, in fact backlash is buffed. Your argument is invalid and a joke (but not a funny one)

Nope, I didn't ignore the fact that some here agreed to a tradeoff. I said "Good luck getting armaments buffed to equal grim focus AS SOME HAVE STATED." Keyword: some. In your reply to me, you seem to be saying you're firmly in the camp of asking for a trade off. However, when Lord_Sando suggested they keep everything and buff the damage, you said you agreed and thought a trade off was only worst case scenario. That was your chance to show how rationally you are thinking about this ability, but instead you agreed with the guy asking for everything. Therefore, my critque that most here are asking for a skill to be well outside of ZOS's standards is still accurate.

As for the passives not being strong compared to other skills, I say it depends. I only do end game pve and I think that the light attack damage and max Stam are pretty damn good, especially in this next patch where light attack damage will be a larger component of DPS.

I won't make comments on bound armaments for pvp because that's not my forte.

universal_wrath

Crixus8000 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Since the damage happens over a short time, I think combining this with a good CC (the fear one of the fighter's guild) and an execute should be good.

As a magblade main, I'm excited to make a stamsorc and have a pretty cool playstyle finally!

Why bother though. If I cc'd someone I would rather use ult or even just my normal spammable since I wouldn't be trying to look cool but would rather try to kill my opponent and this skill would just be the worst option to use in that situation since it's damage isn't good at all.

I think the bound armament dmg is sufficaint. The problem is that it is split into 4 projectile instead of one which why it looks weak when use in pvp, because each dagger is laved by battle spirit and then mitigated by resistance resulting in of all less dmg, and since it is split into 4 projictiles, it ir was but as over time instead of having all daggers hit at once thus giving more window to dodge and heal through. In PvE however, i it provides decent dmg as i hace it 3,4k each and crit for up to 7k so if you look at the total dmg it would be around 13.2k non crit and that is about the dmg of dizzy swing and if you were lucky enough to crit all of the daggers, that total dmg would be 28k. The skill is very easy to use and proc thus negating its "low" dmg.

Trian94

Zalathorm wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Zalathorm wrote: »

This thread is hilarious.

How you expect zos to buff this skill when it's already loaded with too much on one ability is beyond me.

They have stated many times that they dont want one skill to do too much. Grim focus was nerfed because it granted passive damage and active damage. They switched it to just active damage, with a passive heal/defense utility. Good luck getting armaments buffed to "equal grim focus" as some have stated.

What a joke.

You almost got hilarious but it's clear as day that you came here to diminish the matter discussed, the concept of which clearly eludes you. Furthermore you ignored the part when we said it would be more worth to gain damage and lose the passives if the devs feel it gives too many things. If that's not enough look at the other abilities listed in a previous comment. They all have secondary effects superior to bound armaments and they aren't nerfed this patch, in fact backlash is buffed. Your argument is invalid and a joke (but not a funny one)

Nope, I didn't ignore the fact that some here agreed to a tradeoff. I said "Good luck getting armaments buffed to equal grim focus AS SOME HAVE STATED." Keyword: some. In your reply to me, you seem to be saying you're firmly in the camp of asking for a trade off. However, when Lord_Sando suggested they keep everything and buff the damage, you said you agreed and thought a trade off was only worst case scenario. That was your chance to show how rationally you are thinking about this ability, but instead you agreed with the guy asking for everything. Therefore, my critque that most here are asking for a skill to be well outside of ZOS's standards is still accurate.

As for the passives not being strong compared to other skills, I say it depends. I only do end game pve and I think that the light attack damage and max Stam are pretty damn good, especially in this next patch where light attack damage will be a larger component of DPS.

I won't make comments on bound armaments for pvp because that's not my forte.

The trade off is what's going to keep the ability from being overpowered in pve dps. But as far as pvp is concerned it would make it op if the skill didn't lose anything for reasons explained by lord sando. I personally wouldn't mind if the skill didnt lose anything and made stamsorc top dps. I didnt see many players qq when nightblade mag and stam was the top of the list

Xvorg

Trian94 wrote: »

Alright. So i just tested every delayed dmg ability (blastbones, power of the light, grim focus, armaments, and sub assault







As you can see the only ones close to bound armaments are blastbones and sub assault, both of which provide better debuffs than the buffs armaments gives and are way easier to use and line up.

All these screens were taken while no cp were on, same gear (shackle, bs, truth), same race (orc), same mundus (warrior), each class' passives unlocked and with slotted skills being the respective skills, rally and dawnbreaker of smiting. Major brutality was the only buff so take into account that somec classes have berserk and also dont neglect the different passives the classes have.

Bound armaments is super weak compared to all the skills mentioned above. Also the fact that it takes a whole GCD to use makes it even harder to utilize and capitalize on. It needs a buff in damage even if that means taking out the % max stam or/and nerfing the light attack damage bonus so it's balanced in both pve and pvp.

you know you can pair Armaments with Crushing weapon?

Oh, by the way, increasing your stam an 8% is a huge buff. If you sit at 30k it adds 2.4k extra stam

Xvorg

universal_wrath wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Since the damage happens over a short time, I think combining this with a good CC (the fear one of the fighter's guild) and an execute should be good.

As a magblade main, I'm excited to make a stamsorc and have a pretty cool playstyle finally!

Why bother though. If I cc'd someone I would rather use ult or even just my normal spammable since I wouldn't be trying to look cool but would rather try to kill my opponent and this skill would just be the worst option to use in that situation since it's damage isn't good at all.

I think the bound armament dmg is sufficaint. The problem is that it is split into 4 projectile instead of one which why it looks weak when use in pvp, because each dagger is laved by battle spirit and then mitigated by resistance resulting in of all less dmg, and since it is split into 4 projictiles, it ir was but as over time instead of having all daggers hit at once thus giving more window to dodge and heal through. In PvE however, i it provides decent dmg as i hace it 3,4k each and crit for up to 7k so if you look at the total dmg it would be around 13.2k non crit and that is about the dmg of dizzy swing and if you were lucky enough to crit all of the daggers, that total dmg would be 28k. The skill is very easy to use and proc thus negating its "low" dmg.

what?

the damage is the same in one strike than in 4 strikes

2461 * 0.3 (dmg done in PvP on most tanking setups) = 738.3 * 4 = 2953.2

2461*4 = 9844 * 0.3 = 2953.2

And throwing crit chance independently on each strike, it turns that it will always do more dmg unless you get very bad luck (4 strikes and no crit)

HowlKimchi

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

I dont get why you're comparing the two? You can use power bash light attack weave to stack the Armaments, once it's full stack, use it. then on the 3rd and 4th bound dagger, it'll hit with your next weave, which could be a CC to an ult.

katorga

universal_wrath wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Bound armaments needs to have its damage buffed by about 15% (+/- 5%), and keep the light attack and stam bonus.

Here is why:

- A warden will be running a default 22% damage increase on sub assault for example, 6% increased damage from slotting assault, bird of prey and swarm, 8% minor vuln, 8% berserk compared to 5% increase damage on sorc.
- Sub assault gets another 8% damage from major fracture applied by the ability itself. Nothing on sorc.
- Sub Assault hits the target off the GCD allowing you to time and stack burst. This is why it is sooo good.
- Slotting sub assault gives 2% damage increase, 12% mag/stam regen, Ultimate return on cast, Stam return on cast compared to 2% weapon dmg, 8% stam increase, 10% light attack dmg, 20% stam/health regen...close, but advantage warden
- Warden gets 10% increased health from healing himself, Sorc gets 8% while daggers are up, roughly equal

Oh yea, forgot, sub assault is AOE....so it can be up to 6 times more powerful than Bound Armaments or Relentless Focus.

This is on a class with built in major/minor protection, major mending, major heroism, good projectile damage shields, as of 5.2, very good class spammable, none of which stam sorc has. I'm too lazy to do the same comparison with Stamblade, or Stamcro, but you get the picture.

If the new Bound armaments is "overloaded", then sub assault is even more so and is in dire need of a nerf based on the very arguments made in this thread.

That is not true. You are comparing 1 skill with class passive to another one. That is not how it works.

That is exactly how it works.

Then you have the other consistency. If the new standard is ST and AOE dots do the same damage, but AOE dots cost 5K , why do AOE burst skills not cost twice as much as ST burst skills across the board, (including ultimates)?

Burtan

LiquidPony wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

Would like to say that I think Armaments should do more damage than sub assault simply because it requires more effort.

If this means Armaments must lose the 8% stam then so be it.

Does anyone actually wonder how we keep getting closer and closer to a completely homogenized game?

People keep asking for it!

If you want Grim Focus, just play a Nightblade.

Burtan wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

Power Slam is not lower damage spammable. Its one of the strongest instant cast spammables dealing same damage as Cutting Dive and more than Venom Skull, Silver Shards, Crushing Weapon, Force Pulse (if you had matching stats), Lava Whip or even Surprise Attack. Literally everything that comes from your post is just.... not true
You have Armaments on your bar so you are already profiting from half the power of the skill you are complaining about. Every delayed attack in the game including all of the DoTs even pre nerf deal less damage over X time than spamming spammable for that duration.

I didn't say it did less than those, but it does do less than the likes of dizzying swing and surprise attack on average among the most common PvP builds. This is beside the point anyways.

Why would I use the Armaments proc when I get more damage from not wasting a gcd and going for another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo?

Bound Armaments does not do less damage than Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow. Nor does it do less damage than Power Slam, even according to the tooltips you posted.

Bound Armaments at 4 stacks would do 10,668 damage (non-crit) compared to the 8,000 tooltip from Power Slam. It also has the advantage of having a full 28m range.

Im not asking for this ability to be the same as grim focus, the fact is that it is already a similar ability and therefore should be comparable.

Armaments isnt a skill that can be regularly weaved with light attack and bash resulting in much less overall damage if you choose to cast it. You will get both more burst and more consitent dps by weaving a skill and ignoring armaments completely, at least in PvP.

For this ability to be viable it needs to have better burst or be redesigned entirely.

This makes literally zero sense. None at all.

When you activate the buff, it lasts for 40 seconds.

During that time, you do your thing, LA/Power Bash, whatever. When you have 4 stacks up, proc it. You can even proc it from range. It will do more damage than whatever spammable you've got on your bar (excepting maybe Snipe).

Meanwhile, you're also getting +8% stamina and +10% LA damage from having it slotted (and of course +20% Health Recovery, +20% Stamina Recovery, and +2% Weapon Damage passively).

If you read my comments you will see that what I in fact said was that you will lose dps by choosing to fire armaments instead of weaving a regular spammable with light attack and bash. This makes the proc effect very underwhelming and should be addressed, whether that means making it more easily weaved or giving it increased damage.

Burtan

HaruKamui wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

I dont get why you're comparing the two? You can use power bash light attack weave to stack the Armaments, once it's full stack, use it. then on the 3rd and 4th bound dagger, it'll hit with your next weave, which could be a CC to an ult.

Because as I have stated, you will lose dps by firing armaments instead of carrying on using your regular spammable combo. There is no reason to fire armaments right now unless you are at range and cannot land any other attacks because armaments cannot be properly weaved and doesn't provide enough burst to make up for lack of weaving.

SodanTok

Burtan wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

I dont get why you're comparing the two? You can use power bash light attack weave to stack the Armaments, once it's full stack, use it. then on the 3rd and 4th bound dagger, it'll hit with your next weave, which could be a CC to an ult.

Because as I have stated, you will lose dps by firing armaments instead of carrying on using your regular spammable combo. There is no reason to fire armaments right now unless you are at range and cannot land any other attacks because armaments cannot be properly weaved and doesn't provide enough burst to make up for lack of weaving.

Which is incorrect because it hits for more than any spammable and costs nearly half of any spammable

Burtan

SodanTok wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

I dont get why you're comparing the two? You can use power bash light attack weave to stack the Armaments, once it's full stack, use it. then on the 3rd and 4th bound dagger, it'll hit with your next weave, which could be a CC to an ult.

Because as I have stated, you will lose dps by firing armaments instead of carrying on using your regular spammable combo. There is no reason to fire armaments right now unless you are at range and cannot land any other attacks because armaments cannot be properly weaved and doesn't provide enough burst to make up for lack of weaving.

Which is incorrect because it hits for more than any spammable and costs nearly half of any spammable

In PvP the decreased cost and slightly higher tooltip doesn't make up for lack of weaving. I have tried it extensively in duels, as have others in this thread whom agree with this point.

The ability to weave light attack and bash adds more damage than a measly extra 2k on a tooltip by very far.

Svidrir

The damage is ridiculous especially considering the fact that the skill is not pleasant or fluid in any case is not synergistic with body skills

HowlKimchi

Burtan wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

I dont get why you're comparing the two? You can use power bash light attack weave to stack the Armaments, once it's full stack, use it. then on the 3rd and 4th bound dagger, it'll hit with your next weave, which could be a CC to an ult.

Because as I have stated, you will lose dps by firing armaments instead of carrying on using your regular spammable combo. There is no reason to fire armaments right now unless you are at range and cannot land any other attacks because armaments cannot be properly weaved and doesn't provide enough burst to make up for lack of weaving.

What do you mean by it cannot be properly weaved? If true, then you might be correct that it'll deal less burst damage overall. However, an offensive skill that cannot be properly weaved should be considered bugged since all offensive skills in ESO can be light attack weaved.

Burtan

HaruKamui wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

I dont get why you're comparing the two? You can use power bash light attack weave to stack the Armaments, once it's full stack, use it. then on the 3rd and 4th bound dagger, it'll hit with your next weave, which could be a CC to an ult.

Because as I have stated, you will lose dps by firing armaments instead of carrying on using your regular spammable combo. There is no reason to fire armaments right now unless you are at range and cannot land any other attacks because armaments cannot be properly weaved and doesn't provide enough burst to make up for lack of weaving.

What do you mean by it cannot be properly weaved? If true, then you might be correct that it'll deal less burst damage overall. However, an offensive skill that cannot be properly weaved should be considered bugged since all offensive skills in ESO can be light attack weaved.

There isn't enough delay to time the projectile with other skills like Warden Shalks or Grim Focus do and the animation is way too clunky to instantly weave into a light attack. The damage of the proc doesn't offset this in any way either.

SodanTok

Burtan wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

This is a comparison between Power Bash (one of the lower damage spammables) and Armaments on the same bar on a non cp build. Keep in mind that Power Bash requires no timing and can simply be spammed while Armaments requires timing with so little pay off. I would get more damage from using another Power Bash/Light attack/Bash combo than I would from firing armaments.

I dont get why you're comparing the two? You can use power bash light attack weave to stack the Armaments, once it's full stack, use it. then on the 3rd and 4th bound dagger, it'll hit with your next weave, which could be a CC to an ult.

Because as I have stated, you will lose dps by firing armaments instead of carrying on using your regular spammable combo. There is no reason to fire armaments right now unless you are at range and cannot land any other attacks because armaments cannot be properly weaved and doesn't provide enough burst to make up for lack of weaving.

Which is incorrect because it hits for more than any spammable and costs nearly half of any spammable

In PvP the decreased cost and slightly higher tooltip doesn't make up for lack of weaving. I have tried it extensively in duels, as have others in this thread whom agree with this point.

The ability to weave light attack and bash adds more damage than a measly extra 2k on a tooltip by very far.

Nothing different on this ability than any other. It works exactly like every instant cast abilities and can be easily weaved in (la-ba-bash) combination with no issues. Not sure if you are experiencing latency problems or you are just being confused by the animation.

Thats with over 200 latency. Can reproduce it infinitely.