Bound Armaments

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  • HowlKimchi
    HowlKimchi
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    SodanTok wrote: »

    Nothing different on this ability than any other. It works exactly like every instant cast abilities and can be easily weaved in (la-ba-bash) combination with no issues. Not sure if you are experiencing latency problems or you are just being confused by the animation.

    Thats with over 200 latency. Can reproduce it infinitely.
    GDWvI0i.png

    Well this confirms that it can be weaved. Since it does more damage than a spammable it should be better. Would be nice if it dealt a bit more damage though.
    previously @HaruKamui but I outgrew my weeb phase (probably)

    PC/NA - EP - Howl Bragi/Howl Kimchi
  • Burtan
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    SodanTok wrote: »

    Nothing different on this ability than any other. It works exactly like every instant cast abilities and can be easily weaved in (la-ba-bash) combination with no issues. Not sure if you are experiencing latency problems or you are just being confused by the animation.

    Thats with over 200 latency. Can reproduce it infinitely.
    GDWvI0i.png

    Try doing it reliably against a moving target, anything is easy to use against a target dummy. This also took up way too much time to combo.
    Edited by Burtan on September 20, 2019 8:35PM
  • SodanTok
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    Burtan wrote: »

    Try doing it reliably against a moving target, anything is easy to use against a target dummy.

    Cmon, dont try strawman this. Abilities dont suddenly change because target is moving. When you press LA it happens, when you press ability it happens and when you press bash it happens. Moving target or not either you hit target or you hit air.
  • Burtan
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    3a7o883mb7um.png~

    In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.
  • SodanTok
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    Burtan wrote: »
    3a7o883mb7um.png~

    In the time it took you to make bound armaments land at the same time as light attack and bash (which is a clunky animation I might add) I am able to do two whole weaves for much greater damage.

    No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?
  • Burtan
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    SodanTok wrote: »

    No you didnt? You know you can La - BA - bash - La - power slam - bash and its more damage over the same period of time?

    Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.
    Edited by Burtan on September 20, 2019 8:45PM
  • SodanTok
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    Burtan wrote: »

    Not in the same amount of time, from the moment armaments fires to the time the damage ends you will have lost a whole weave of damage. If the damage was instant and fired a little faster you would be correct.

    You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...
  • Zalathorm
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    Trian94 wrote: »

    You almost got hilarious but it's clear as day that you came here to diminish the matter discussed, the concept of which clearly eludes you. Furthermore you ignored the part when we said it would be more worth to gain damage and lose the passives if the devs feel it gives too many things. If that's not enough look at the other abilities listed in a previous comment. They all have secondary effects superior to bound armaments and they aren't nerfed this patch, in fact backlash is buffed. Your argument is invalid and a joke (but not a funny one)

    I should have said some people here want everything left on it, while others have said that they would take a trade off. You seem to be suggesting that everyone here is on the same page about a trade off, which isn't the case.

    As for the passives not being strong compared to other skills, I say it depends. I only do end game pve and I think that the light attack damage and max Stam are pretty damn good, especially in this next patch where light attack damage will be a larger component of DPS.

    I won't make comments on bound armaments for pvp because that's not my forte.
    SodanTok wrote: »

    You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...

    Over and over in this thread, people who want it to be buffed try to reconstruct the facts to support their original position.
  • Burtan
    Burtan
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    SodanTok wrote: »

    You dont have to wait for armaments you know? Once GCD is over you can use another ability even those armaments are still firing...

    If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.

    If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.
  • SodanTok
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    Burtan wrote: »

    If the ability barely weaves with a fast spammable like power bash how would it perform with spammables like snipe and dizzy swing? The world of PvP is very different to doing the same rotation against a static target.

    If its going to be viable it needs to synergise with those too.

    Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.

  • Burtan
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    SodanTok wrote: »

    Im starting to think you are just saying words you heard on stream and dont know what they mean and your only goal is probably just that desire you mentioned above to have this ability hit when you use another ability for bigger burst. So far we confirmed it can be weaved with LA, it can be bash weaved and it does more damage for single use of GCD therefore also more DPS using it than not.

    It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.

    Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.
    Edited by Burtan on September 20, 2019 9:23PM
  • Trian94
    Trian94
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    Xvorg wrote: »

    you know you can pair Armaments with Crushing weapon?

    Oh, by the way, increasing your stam an 8% is a huge buff. If you sit at 30k it adds 2.4k extra stam

    Crushing weapon as melee in PvP? Gl. The ability might be good for end game pve but in PvP it's underwhelming and it shouldn't be. 2.4k stam is nothing if the active attack is not worth using.
    PC EU

    Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn
  • Trian94
    Trian94
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    Zalathorm wrote: »

    I should have said some people here want everything left on it, while others have said that they would take a trade off. You seem to be suggesting that everyone here is on the same page about a trade off, which isn't the case.

    As for the passives not being strong compared to other skills, I say it depends. I only do end game pve and I think that the light attack damage and max Stam are pretty damn good, especially in this next patch where light attack damage will be a larger component of DPS.

    I won't make comments on bound armaments for pvp because that's not my forte.
    Over and over in this thread, people who want it to be buffed try to reconstruct the facts to support their original position.

    I don't take it that anyone is on board with a trade off. I do both endgame pve and solo/ small group PvP and I know for a fact, since I tested it, that the activation of the ability might be good for pve with all the crit modifiers in a trial environment etc but in PvP it's underwhelming. It needs to be balanced for both. That's why I suggested that it would be ok to lose the passives for a significant increase in damage to bring it closer to grim focus standards in terms of damage so it's useful for both.
    Edited by Trian94 on September 20, 2019 9:43PM
    PC EU

    Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn
  • LiquidPony
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    Burtan wrote: »

    It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.

    Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.

    Wow.

    You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?

    gAMTZdH.png

    There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:

    LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.

    Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.

    You'll also note the time stamps ...

    41.139s: Light Attack
    41.303s: Bound Armaments
    41.530s: Bash

    It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.
  • Xvorg
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    Trian94 wrote: »

    Crushing weapon as melee in PvP? Gl. The ability might be good for end game pve but in PvP it's underwhelming and it shouldn't be. 2.4k stam is nothing if the active attack is not worth using.

    I've used it melee and range on a hybrid sorc. It works OK. It procs frags and can be timed with rune (well, tbh i was using elemental wpn)
    Edited by Xvorg on September 20, 2019 10:31PM
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Trian94
    Trian94
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    Xvorg wrote: »

    I've used it melee and range on a hybrid sorc. It works OK. It procs frags and can be timed with rune (well, tbh i was using elemental wpn)

    Yeah well, I got nothing to say to that so I dont become mean.
    PC EU

    Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Trian94 wrote: »

    Yeah well, I got nothing to say to that so I dont become mean.

    So you are rending an option useless without even trying it? The window for imbue is 2 secs, you have plenty of time for even 3 procs on armaments, one of them a very hard hit.
    You can even use shield charge to have reliable stun on a gap closer.
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • ElvenVeil
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    this comment is entirely with pvp in mind.
    Stamsorcs cannot for instance be compared 1:1 with nightblade because they play vastly different, not to mention that nightblade is a top tier class, while stamsorc is pretty much in the other end of the spectrum.

    imo, what they should do with the skill to keep it an atractive skill, while also keeping to the idea that sorc should feel unique, would be to remove it from the global cooldown. Obviously the damage needed to be lowered a deal too as the combination would be pretty insane otherwise :D . but remove global cooldown, reduce damage and you give stamsorc a burst bonus which requires skill to use properly, while also playing into the stamsorc theme of being high damage squishy class.
  • SodanTok
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    Burtan wrote: »

    It took you almost 2 seconds to weave armaments with just a light attack and bash, if you think that's good then I dont know what to tell you. I can get two whole weaves in that time.

    Its also only gonna be up once every 4 weaves so even if it was on par with a spammable that's just not good enough, especially since stamsorc favours burst and mobility in PvP, even more so next patch.

    LiquidPony above already checked, corrected and hopefully also put you in line but let me at least explain my combat log since I guess like most of things it looks foreign to you.

    Even with my 200 latency and not trying hard to be fast there was exactly 390ms between light attack and bash. Light attack started the 'combo' of LA, BA, bash and by the time I hit the bash 390ms later the skill was already casted. Thats what weaving is. Just because the skill is then spending next 1.2s firing in periods of 0.3s is totally unrelated to weaving. Its not channeled attack therefore whatever the skill is doing and how long is simply irrelevant because while the daggers are flying you can already do next attack
    Edited by SodanTok on September 21, 2019 12:07AM
  • universal_wrath
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    Xvorg wrote: »

    So you are rending an option useless without even trying it? The window for imbue is 2 secs, you have plenty of time for even 3 procs on armaments, one of them a very hard hit.
    You can even use shield charge to have reliable stun on a gap closer.

    I did try imbue weapon on bow, daul wield, 2h, and sword and shield. The skill is clunky and 50% of the time it does not land in pvp, but it works find with bow.

    I'm currently having same problem in pve as the skill on melee weapons sometime lag and cause you rotation to breakdown and loss the proc multipletimes espacailly when fighting big bosses like dragons for instant.

    The skill works well in both pve and pvp set up if you use range weapons.
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    SodanTok wrote: »

    LiquidPony above already checked, corrected and hopefully also put you in line but let me at least explain my combat log since I guess like most of things it looks foreign to you.

    Even with my 200 latency and not trying hard to be fast there was exactly 390ms between light attack and bash. Light attack started the 'combo' of LA, BA, bash and by the time I hit the bash 390ms later the skill was already casted. Thats what weaving is. Just because the skill is then spending next 1.2s firing in periods of 0.3s is totally unrelated to weaving. Its not channeled attack therefore whatever the skill is doing and how long is simply irrelevant because while the daggers are flying you can already do next attack

    I'm potato in math, but i have to say that bound armament looks more like a ST dot than anything else since it take x time to full do its dmg and not required channel.

    The skill procs too iften which offset it's dmg, but, the animation is too long and animation cancel make the skill not to fire sometimes. I have tested it on PTS many time while i was trying to do dps pars, but i will assume that it's because of the latency and it works find under 100- ping.
  • Trian94
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    Xvorg wrote: »

    So you are rending an option useless without even trying it? The window for imbue is 2 secs, you have plenty of time for even 3 procs on armaments, one of them a very hard hit.
    You can even use shield charge to have reliable stun on a gap closer.

    Im saying this because i have tried crushing in pvp.
    PC EU

    Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn
  • eso_lags
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    Burtan wrote: »
    How do you feel about Bound Armaments?

    I personally like the feel of the new version of armaments and the idea behind it but right now I find it lacking.

    For me its hitting for less or the same as most spammables while requiring far more effort and timing. Snipe for example currently does the same damage as the bound armaments proc and can be spammed at range. I think a small buff is needed to put this ability on par with other class damage abilities or even close to the damage of a spammable. Right now against a medium 23k resist player im hitting for 4k non crit while having 6k weapon damage and 26k stam in non cp. This just isn't worthwhile.

    It is my opinion that the damage proc of this ability should be comparable to grim focus from the nightblade class. Please consider adjusting the damage of this ability to make it the ability Stamsorc needs.

    I would like to hear the opinions of fellow Stamsorcs on this.

    Its garbo. I didnt really get to try it much since the pts has some performance issues (who would have thought) but from what I tried it wasnt the greatest. Ill use it though, because its something new for stam sorc and we havent had something new in years. But it deff needs a buff to be like merciless, i mean its a similar ability why wouldn't it have similar damage? Even a bit less, since merciless gives you damage reduction and this gives you a bit more damage passively. But still they are similar but not similar in damage, at least from what I've seen so far.

    On another note, why does this pet not cost stam? I thought they were giving it physical damage but still having it cost mag? Why? Not that I would use it since ESO does pets worse than any MMO ive ever played, but still it makes me wonder.
  • Ellyhan
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    I like it too ^^ Real feel like conjuring skill know ! <3
    But give it too for magic !

    I agree too for the cost of Pet who change in stam. Maybe for not spamming the heal ? :#
    J'ai pas de coéquipiers, c'est juste mon garde manger.
  • Saril_Durzam
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    For.damage considerations, are you all forgettng that the active skill requres two GCDs? The damage caused should be at least 2 times of one spammable. Its also a delayed damage but not burst so not the most desireable thing...

    Right now is a thematic skill only useful as a passive, hence a slight nerf from old skill. Damage has to be improved.
  • Crixus8000
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    For.damage considerations, are you all forgettng that the active skill requres two GCDs? The damage caused should be at least 2 times of one spammable. Its also a delayed damage but not burst so not the most desireable thing...

    Right now is a thematic skill only useful as a passive, hence a slight nerf from old skill. Damage has to be improved.

    Exactly. I really don't understand why people seem to think this is good. It's so bad it's not worth using, and if you do then your just lowering your damage.

    The proc either needs a secondary affect like fracture or just more damage so it's worth using for burst.

    Edited by Crixus8000 on September 21, 2019 11:47AM
  • coradaelu
    coradaelu
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    It just needs a little more love in damage and i will give a try on my MagSorc with this skill, some damage more stam and buff my overloads by 10% >:)
  • Ellyhan
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    It's just change nothing, the passive stay as it is and it's win something more for class indentity ! You don't have the obligation go active it ! So ? Maybe it's needed buff but right now, it's smell good.
    J'ai pas de coéquipiers, c'est juste mon garde manger.
  • Burtan
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    LiquidPony wrote: »

    Wow.

    You do understand that the "2 seconds to weave" is not true and Bound Armaments does 4 separate ticks of damage over a short period of time, right?

    gAMTZdH.png

    There, over a period of 2.9 seconds:

    LA-->Power Slam-->Bash, LA-->Bound Armaments-->Bash, LA-->Power Slam-->Bash.

    Note also that Bound Armaments did about 33% more damage than Power Slam.

    You'll also note the time stamps ...

    41.139s: Light Attack
    41.303s: Bound Armaments
    41.530s: Bash

    It weaves perfectly fine with LAs and bashes.

    Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.

    your 2 weaves = 2.9s
    my 2 weaves 1.5s

    I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.

    As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.

    This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.
  • SodanTok
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    Burtan wrote: »

    Im getting tired of repeating myself but it took you twice the amount of time to do those weaves than it took me. Again, I would have gotten a whole other weave instead of casting armaments. This skill requires timing, must be built up and can only be cast every 4 weaves.

    your 2 weaves = 2.9s
    my 2 weaves 1.5s

    I could get almost 4 weaves in that time and the screenshots are there to back it up. This is just the PvE side of the skill technically since it doesn't take into account the fluidity and unpredictable environment of PvP.

    As for the PvP side, this skill has almost no synergy with the most common Stamsorc playstyles. Stamsorc favours mobility and high damage because you lack the skills and passives to tank players outright compared to other specs. By the time you get armaments up you will probably be forced to streak to cover.

    This skill is not even close to being good enough for Stamsorc in PvP. With 5k+ hours of stamsorc alone, I can say that with certainty.

    LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
    Edited by SodanTok on September 21, 2019 1:54PM
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