LiquidPony has 3 weaves there in 2.9s. His 2 weaves take 1.6s 5k+ hours yet you cant read log? I would be ashamed admitting I have 5k+h yet everything in topics you said was so far incorrect.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
I do. You do realize you dont need to make up like 50 lies or inaccuracies about mechanics of skill or combat just because you dont like how BA works and just say "i want it to do this instead of this"
I dont know why you can't or don't want to understand that casting bound armaments instead of another spammable isn't worth. It's as simple as that and it's a fact whether you like it or not.
This just in, dealing more DMG for less stamina is not worth.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
It doesnt deal more dmg and since spending a little bit more stam for more dmg is sustainable, its not worth it. And even if it does then a proc ability should do way more damage than a spammable like its other classes' equivalents. In pvp its not worth using currently and it should be.
LeoSzilard wrote: »
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
universal_wrath wrote: »
Situational dmg increase. For bound armament to do more dmg than a spammable, it need to land all daggers and if a spammable crit, all 4 daggers need to crit to be able get higher dmg than spammable. In pve situation, this a not a problem, but in pvp how ever, people can dodge/block at least 1 dagger and make the proc worse than spamable, just my thoughts.
I always liked bound armaments before and now, mainly for the deadric protection passive and skill passive and not active skill.
LeoSzilard wrote: »
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
LeoSzilard wrote: »
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
LeoSzilard wrote: »
If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
LeoSzilard wrote: »If all four daggers from Bound Armaments land, it deals more damage than a spammable, on average. In the example that was provided earlier, a power slam crit landed for about 15k while the sum of four ticks of bound armament crits landed for about 20k. 20k > 15k. Are you upset that the damage isn't instant and is instead dealt over four ticks? Stating that it does less damage than a spammable is demonstrably false and I don't understand why you keep repeating your "alternative facts".
Saril_Durzam wrote: »
What is true is that is easier to crit on one single spammable than in four dagger attacks.
What is also true is that does more damage than a single spammable.
But the thing is, this skill takes two GCDs so should be more fair to compare damage with two spammable attacks. And the damage then will be lower.
LeoSzilard wrote: »
Do you mean one global cooldown to initialize the skill and one cooldown to fire it? The 40s duration greatly offsets the global cooldown to initialize...at least that was probably the thought of the combat team. But, if you go on the defense or otherwise can't keep up light attacks, the skill falls off in 10 seconds. So in that case, the cooldown to initialize the skill adds a good bit of extra overhead.
My mistake, 3 weaves. I wasn't counting armaments as a weave. my points still stand.
And you do realise there is more to the game than doing perfect rotations against a stationary target and even in this best case scenario the skill isn't optimal.
Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Yes. You need two GCDs for this skill. But please explain me how a skill lasting more will offset the loss of a GCD. Sure, daggers being up for many seconds will be good to choose the right time to fire them, and lets you keep using it if activated on a "bad" time where you cannot do LAs, but apart from that... you don´t get more daggers after firing them, you don´t get anything more.
It´s two GCDs wasted on a skill which deals a bit more damage than a spammable, close to what a DoT does in more or less same time between arming and so. But DoTS do more damage so for good rotations if you slot Armaments, you shouldn´t use it. You would slot it for passives.
Right now, a waste of an active skill, and 1% LA dmg nerf on the passive. It brings class identity though and it´s a good step towards it. Now it just needs to deal more damage to be effective, or simply take one GCD out.
To me, this skill shouldn´t need activation. Every time you do a LA (put a % if you want it slower), you get a dagger. Then the active skill firing them all. Once they´re fired, if you dont want it to goes too fast, put a couple seconds or more of no creating daggers. Now that would be a good skill.
Saril_Durzam wrote: »
My proposed change.
Your point still stands? Your whole position was wrong during the entire discussion...
As far as I can tell bound armaments has a mediocre cast (still better than a standard spammable, especially damage/cost wise) but amazing passives (if you count the daedric summoning passives). Thats why it still looks like a worthwile skill to me.
Still, how does the ability interact with dodge and block? Does it count as a projectile (how does it interact with spellwall, defensive stance, reflective scales, shimmering shield, ...)?
I'm thinking about creating a hybrid sorc next patch.
Edit: precast looks like the biggest problem to me. The idea of Saril to passively get daggers while slotted sounds neat.
LeoSzilard wrote: »The biggest problem that I have with BA is that the damage is divided into separate ticks. The sum of the damage is superior to a spammable ability on paper; however, crit chance poses a very big problem. Consider a single source of damage with a 50% crit chance. The probability of that attack being a critical strike is 0.5^1=0.5 or 50%. For BA, the attack is split into four independent damage sources. With a 50% crit chance, the probability of ALL of the BA daggers being a critical strike is 0.5^4=0.0625 or 6.25%. This will kill the dps potential in PvE and cause the skill to lose almost all kill potential in PvP. Rapid Strikes, incidentally, suffers from a similar problem; however, Rapid Strikes is helped tremendously by the fact that the final tick of damage is so much higher than the other ticks. Thus, with respect to crit chance, it functions a little bit more like a single source of damage. I do NOT think that buffing the damage is the answer. The fundamental problem is that the skill has too much volatility because of each hit being an independent event with respect to crit chance.
If each of the crit chance of each dagger were NOT independent, then I don't think that we would have a problem. Similarly, if the skill dealt one tick of direct damage, it would be fine. But as long as the skill delivers multiple independent damage ticks, players will complain that the skill feels like a) it doesn't do enough damage b) it does way too much damage if all of the daggers happen to crit.
Does that make sense?
I've tested it thouroughly, it's not a worth skill to use unless it's damage is buffed
LeoSzilard wrote: »
Here's how the impact of the global cooldown consumption to initialize the skill becomes smaller as the duration of the skill increases. Suppose that S is the overhead cost of keeping a skill active. Then the resource cost per second, S, is inversely proportional to the duration of the skill, t. Thus:
S = C*1/t, where C is a proportionality constant. In this case, it's the resource cost of activation.
Similarly, you can consider the expression for S as being the cost in time. Then, the expression simply gives you the proportion of time that you spend keeping the skill active. So, what's the limit as t -> infinity? Zero. So the cost in resources or the cost in time to keep a skill active decreases inversely with the duration of the skill. It should be obvious.
LeoSzilard wrote: »
Here’s the way the skill currently works. I’ll put it in terms of your suggestion.
“Duration: 40 seconds
Once active, your light attacks have a 100% chance to summon a Bound Weapon for 10 seconds...Once the weapons have been fired, begin accumulating new Bound weapons immediately.”
The FORTY second duration is seriously that upsetting that you’d propose a ridiculous version of the skill that has a 50% proc chance and 5 second cooldown but infinite duration? This has to be a troll.
Saril_Durzam wrote: »
You´re considering only the resource cost; i´m talking about damage you lose, which atm is more important. Futhermore, if the skill last longer but the effect only works once, the duration isn´t that important. Now, if the skill kept summoning daggers during all duration (you fire daggers, skill keeps working and summoning) then yeah, the cost would impact. But that´s not the case. You will probably firing the skill around 5 seconds after casted so...
Saril_Durzam wrote: »
You´re considering only the resource cost; i´m talking about damage you lose, which atm is more important. Futhermore, if the skill last longer but the effect only works once, the duration isn´t that important. Now, if the skill kept summoning daggers during all duration (you fire daggers, skill keeps working and summoning) then yeah, the cost would impact. But that´s not the case. You will probably firing the skill around 5 seconds after casted so...
Saril_Durzam wrote: »Geez! Now i have to install PST server again... i tried it on first day and just reapplied every time after firing thinking it was done! The tooltip gave me that impression.
Still thinking that using it each 40 seconds will create weird timings. Id rather prefer to activate just the proc, as i suggested. More simple and easier to quantify.