Bound Armaments

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Burtan
Burtan
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How do you feel about Bound Armaments?

I personally like the feel of the new version of armaments and the idea behind it but right now I find it lacking.

For me its hitting for less or the same as most spammables while requiring far more effort and timing. Snipe for example currently does the same damage as the bound armaments proc and can be spammed at range. I think a small buff is needed to put this ability on par with other class damage abilities or even close to the damage of a spammable. Right now against a medium 23k resist player im hitting for 4k non crit while having 6k weapon damage and 26k stam in non cp. This just isn't worthwhile.

It is my opinion that the damage proc of this ability should be comparable to grim focus from the nightblade class. Please consider adjusting the damage of this ability to make it the ability Stamsorc needs.

I would like to hear the opinions of fellow Stamsorcs on this.
  • Trian94
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    The skill is really weak at the moment. In pvp it does minimal damage as you explained and in pve I can't see it being that strong even with all the crit modifiers currently in meta. It scales really badly with weapon damage. I agree with what Drogul said regarding it being comparable to grim focus. To be honest the skill needs the damage more than it needs the percentage of stamina and the light attack damage. Maybe play around with these to make it balanced compared to the build up/delayed burst abilities this game has like sub assault, grim focus, blast bones, power of the light/purifying light and crystal fragments which right now outclass it by far.
    Edited by Trian94 on September 19, 2019 12:47AM
    PC EU

    Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    The damage of the ability is same as sub assault and bigger than lets say haunting curse. I dont feel liek you are being fair comparing it to damage of spammable.
  • Trian94
    Trian94
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    The damage of the ability is same as sub assault and bigger than lets say haunting curse. I dont feel liek you are being fair comparing it to damage of spammable.

    It is more than fair and in fact these kind of abilities should do way more damage than a spammable as it currently is with every other similar ability. Focused aim tooltip on my nightblade in no cp enviroment is 8.2k and grim focus is 12k.

    For comparison, bound armaments has 10k tooltip with 4 swords on a 5k-6k weapon damage build (no cp). The 12k Grim Focus tooltip is on a 3k weapon dmg build on nightblade. (both builds have the same stamina btw). The skill is just really weak.
    PC EU

    Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn
  • TBois
    TBois
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    The damage of the ability is same as sub assault and bigger than lets say haunting curse. I dont feel liek you are being fair comparing it to damage of spammable.

    (Speaking from a pvp perspective) Yet it cant be timed with other skills for burst like the ones you mentioned. You use it in place of a global cooldown of a spammable not in addition to. That is why I think they should increase the duration the damage hits or increase the damage. Spacing the 4 hits over 2 seconds (.5 sec per damage) would at least give me a little more burst potential after use.
    PC/NA
    T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
    An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
    Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
    Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD
  • Lord_Sando
    Lord_Sando
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    The damage of the ability is same as sub assault and bigger than lets say haunting curse. I dont feel liek you are being fair comparing it to damage of spammable.

    WRONG not even close to sub assault not even counting minor berserk.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    I feel like it's in a pretty good spot considering the passive boons and that it can be lined up with other attacks for some juicy burst.
  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
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    I agree 100%

    I love the idea, but atm I don't find it worth the time or cost. I would deal more damage by just using my normal spammable so it makes the change completely worthless.

    Edited by Crixus8000 on September 18, 2019 11:52PM
  • TBois
    TBois
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    Solariken wrote: »
    I feel like it's in a pretty good spot considering the passive boons and that it can be lined up with other attacks for some juicy burst.

    Only the last hit can due to the 1s global cooldown. Have you tested it and gotten good burst?
    PC/NA
    T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
    An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
    Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
    Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD
  • crazywolfpusher
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    I think it should be cheaper and the stacks build from any direct damage up to 2 stacks x 1 gcd
    basically a cheap spammable every 2 seconds / this way could be close to Crystal Frags with less damage but with a reliable proc.

    To make it more juicy the summoned weapon should be the same type of weapon you are holding. That way those who like swords, will throw swords instead.
    Edited by crazywolfpusher on September 19, 2019 12:27AM
  • Canned_Apples
    Canned_Apples
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    Interesting skill- bad damage- it should work like crystal frags- instant cast on stam ability proc
  • eso_lytw8
    eso_lytw8
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    Its crazy that it gets 2 offensive buffs just for slotting while NB class defining assassination skill gets nothing on activation...yes you actually spend stamina to get nothing and on light attacks you get defensive buff...yes a defensive buff that was nerfed last patch. Who is coming up with this stuff?

    Then fives attacks....yes the same 5 attacks releases damage. Please for diversity sake make it something different. Make it every 2 attacks, 4 or 6 attacks but don't just regurgitate the nightblades class defining skill. Plase make it different. My idea is make it 20% chance to produce daggers. This would at least make it have s lightly different feel.
    < Xbox NA PVE >
  • rabidmyers
    rabidmyers
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    i'd like to see them change the visual effects of these daggers, and also the sound when you fire them
    at a place nobody knows
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    I'm mainly disappointed that it's so similar to NB's Grim Focus. I was really hoping for something more like Crystal Fragment procs.
    We were on a decent path to differentiate the feeling of stam classes in Elsweyr - Templars had Burning Light proc, DKs were building stacks with whip slotted, NBs had Grim Focus, Warden and Necro were somewhat similar with delayed burst skills (Blast Bones / Sub Assault). I don't think copying NB's staple skill is good for Sorcerer's class identity.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Burtan wrote: »
    Snipe for example currently does the same damage as the bound armaments proc and can be spammed at range.

    Please, for the love of all that is holy, do not spam snipe. Your actual DPS is going to be significantly lower than if you were weaving poison injection.

    With that said, Bound Armaments is very nice. It could use some minor cosmetic improvements, but the basic ability setup is solid.

    You prime Bound Armaments with your weave while you're using something else as spam, so in that sense, it's far better than an ability with a cast time.
    Edited by starkerealm on September 19, 2019 7:04AM
  • BahometZ
    BahometZ
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    Increases stam 5%, buffs light attacks, it was already great. Now it also has a damage proc, and you want more??

    Hmm.
    Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
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    BahometZ wrote: »
    Increases stam 5%, buffs light attacks, it was already great. Now it also has a damage proc, and you want more??

    Hmm.

    It's 8% at rank IV.
    PC - EU - France - AD
    Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
    Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
    Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.

    All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Elwendryll wrote: »

    It's 8% at rank IV.

    Could have sworn I saw 10% on my stam sorc earlier today, but I wasn't really focusing on the passive.

    Regardless, Bound Armaments is pretty dope. I kinda wish the daggers flew from where they were suspended, or moved into position before rocketing towards the target, but that's a tiny, cosmetic quibble. From a gameplay standpoint, this is a really nice toy in the StamSorc's kit.
    Edited by starkerealm on September 19, 2019 7:29AM
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
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    Could have sworn I saw 10% on my stam sorc earlier today, but I wasn't really focusing on the passive.

    Regardless, Bound Armaments is pretty dope. I kinda wish the daggers flew from where they were suspended, or moved into position before rocketing towards the target, but that's a tiny, cosmetic quibble. From a gameplay standpoint, this is a really nice toy in the StamSorc's kit.

    10% is the LA damage.
    PC - EU - France - AD
    Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
    Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
    Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.

    All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH
  • Harrdarrzarr
    Harrdarrzarr
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    The damage from the proc does not need to be on par with skills like snipe or sub assault, because the skill already gives added boons just for slotting it. You can't ask for the same damage while also keeping the added max stamina and light attack damage.
    To add to that, I do agree that it needs to be a bit stronger than a spammable otherwise there is no need to proc it, apart from when you're standing ranged.
    Edited by Harrdarrzarr on September 19, 2019 8:00AM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    First of let's decide if it's a "pet" or not. It procs Expert Summoner (8% health) but it neither procs Rebate (resource return) nor pet sets (Eternal Hunt Hunt Leader, Necorpotence). However, I noticed a delay in loosing Expert Summoner after firing off, which if intentional, is a good thing. You can keep the 8% up easier by this.

    Secondly, I dislike the animations. You can argue about the visuals per se being "cool" or looking stupid but for now it is what it is. Thing is, the daggers are hard to spot when things get messy. Hurricane, some AoEs and daylight alone and it's hard to see how many daggers you've got up. It's nice that we get a different icon when we've got at least one dagger but there is no audio or icon cue when we reach max. Maybe a sound effect would be enough. (Edit: I've tested without bufftracker, but those count them anyway, it would just be a nice cherry on top)
    Apropos sound, it seems rather unfitting and uninspired now, just like the visuals. But more of that later.

    The damage... hm... it does too little damage on it's own. Issue is that you use it "instead of" something than along with. Since it already grants a lot of passives (stam, la dmg) I'm not too keen on simply buffing the damage.
    Maybe @Solariken can shed some light on his combos but I have only found that I can cast instant skills in the middle of daggers landing (Executioner, Imbue). It doesn't combos very well with Dizzy for good burst.
    So until I'm teached otherwise I'd argue that it needs to be little bit better combo-able. Either by a) putting it off GCD (which probably get's a lot of resistance here, understandably) or by simply delaying it by around ca. 0,3-0,5 seconds. But that's purely PvP talk here.

    The whaf if... Of course I'd prefer if BA was turned into something else than a NB rip off. It wouldn't have cut into both class uniquenesses. I often read about a summoned greatsword in place of our actual weapon that either further improves light attacks (which could become an issue with overload) or as a class spam, both loaded with a debuff, CC or extra dmg after a certain amount of hits. I really like those ideas.
    But that ship has sailed, I guess. So now it's about the current visuals. I dislike that the daggers don't move around across your body but stay in place, like someone else mentioned, like antlers.
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 19, 2019 9:13AM
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
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    Damage is correct but not enough to justify using it in range. In melee it's better than Uppercut (but not by much if you take into account empower) . It doesn't cost much so it helps with sustain anyway. Overall a very cool skill, I just wish damage was like 10-15% better, and the time you spend unable to follow with a light attack shorter.

    The animation and sound of the proc are a bit disappointing. It lacks readability and impact. The aspect of the daggers themselves and the animation when not fired are great, very good job on that. Still a bit hard to see with hurricane, I only rely on the stack count on my skill bar, maybe make the daggers color brighter and less
    transparent?
    First of let's decide if it's a "pet" or not. It procs Expert Summoner (8% health) but it neither procs Rebate (resource return) nor pet sets (Eternal Hunt, Necorpotence). .

    I believe you're thinking about Hunt Leader. Eternal Hunt is the roll dodge set.
    Edited by Elwendryll on September 19, 2019 9:11AM
    PC - EU - France - AD
    Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
    Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
    Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.

    All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Elwendryll wrote: »

    I believe you're thinking about Hunt Leader. Eternal Hunt is the roll dodge set.

    You're right. Fixed. Thanks.
  • susmitds
    susmitds
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    It does 80% damage of Relentless Focus and takes 4 stacks instead of 5 (80% again), so it is technically balanced. Also remember that the Old Snipe did same damage as Relentless Focus, still RF was considered the best burst skill.

    Bound Armaments can not be buffed without straight up making it better than Relentless Focus.
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
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    susmitds wrote: »
    It does 80% damage of Relentless Focus and takes 4 stacks instead of 5 (80% again), so it is technically balanced. Also remember that the Old Snipe did same damage as Relentless Focus, still RF was considered the best burst skill.

    Bound Armaments can not be buffed without straight up making it better than Relentless Focus.

    That's true for the base value on a naked template. But, in a same build scenario, is it still 80%? I didn't have a chance to check myself, but I've read on other posts that it scales badly with weapon damage.
    PC - EU - France - AD
    Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
    Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
    Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.

    All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH
  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
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    You prime Bound Armaments with your weave while you're using something else as spam, so in that sense, it's far better than an ability with a cast time.

    Why even bother using bound armaments when I could just use my normal attack and deal more damage though lol ? The damage from bound armaments is weak.

  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
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    susmitds wrote: »
    It does 80% damage of Relentless Focus and takes 4 stacks instead of 5 (80% again), so it is technically balanced. Also remember that the Old Snipe did same damage as Relentless Focus, still RF was considered the best burst skill.

    Bound Armaments can not be buffed without straight up making it better than Relentless Focus.

    I haven't actually tested numbers just had duels with both my nb and stamsorc against the same people and my bound armaments on a 6k wep dmg stamsorc hit max of around 5k damage, while my relentless proc with only 4.2k wep damage was hitting up to 9k.

    But I don't want it to be better, I just want it to be useful and atm I would never use it because I would be losing damage. So it sucks that stamsorc finally get's a stamina damage skill and it basically does nothing.

    Edited by Crixus8000 on September 19, 2019 10:59AM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Elwendryll wrote: »

    That's true for the base value on a naked template. But, in a same build scenario, is it still 80%? I didn't have a chance to check myself, but I've read on other posts that it scales badly with weapon damage.

    At base with only the skill slotted, nothing else invested it's
    • Relentless at 1.527 dmg
    • B.A. at 304 x 4 = 1.216 dmg
    • = 20,4% less dmg
    Now build up the same way for testing purpouse: Briar, Veli, Way of Air, Warrior, Dubious, same CP (81 MaA, 49 mighty), Dark Elf, 5m 1h 1l, 3 wpn dmg glyphs, infused bow backbar wpn dmg, major brutality as buff. class, medium armor, 2h, bow, racial, fg and undaunted passives. DBoS, Trap, Momentum and the respective skill on frontbar.

    NB has 33.122 stam and 3.723 wpn dmg unbuffed, ends in 6094 wpn dmg buffed
    Sorc has 35.225 stam and 3.784 wpn dmg unbuffed, ends in 6180 wpn dmg buffed.

    • Relentless 26.296
    • B.A. 5196 x 4 = 20.784
    • =20,9% less dmg

    So it stays around the same if you ignore that you've got 2.103 more stam + 86 weapon dmg on the sorc (which relates into roughly 286 more wpn dmg)...
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    BahometZ wrote: »
    Increases stam 5%, buffs light attacks, it was already great. Now it also has a damage proc, and you want more??

    Hmm.

    Remmember grimm focus 2 patches ago? I think bound armament will be the same, if not this patch, it will be the next one. After this patch release, someone will start to complain about how it is overlaoded, and to be honest, it is. Zos will probably either remove LA dmg boost or stamina boost.

    This skill has two passive to increase your dmg, though LA and max stamina, and now it deals dmg, all for cheap cost. I suggest we don't raise too mich attention to it before it gets the nerf hammer, since balancing is not a trait know to zos.
  • Burtan
    Burtan
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    I think its fair to remove the 8% increased stamina to prevent the skill being overloaded because its pretty bad anyways and barely affects damage or healing. I would prefer having more damage on the armaments proc than slightly more max stamina.
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Okay kids, like OP that has no idea how much dmg spammables do or this guy:
    Lord_Sando wrote: »

    WRONG not even close to sub assault not even counting minor berserk.

    and the few others circle jerking people here thinking you can put totally different builds on two classes and then duel to prove which ability hits hard or not...

    4327ccdyxjpp.png
    ^ This is how normal spammable ability looks on tooltip with normal (pve) build and how prime example of cast time 'spammable' looks

    By OP words this ability does less damage than most spammables, most spammable minus the special cases with cast time will have +- same tooltip as silver shard.

    d0z24elsorl3.png
    ^ This is how bound armaments tooltip looks next to sub assault. Exactly as said, nearly same. Unless you are stupid and think it should hit as hard as sub assault if your target has no Major Fracture too.

    But wait I see more crying. Something about bad weapon scaling? Its like everyone forget this is PTS forum and they keep throwing out theories or listening to rumors instead of doing their own damn research.
    Let me introduce you to this little something. Its not much, just 6.3k weapon damage:
    cebyrvgjlpw8.png
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