Faction lock is not fair

Marcus684 · September 2019

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

They just don't want to admit that they get their kicks killing newbies to cyro.
No newbies are going to join 7 day, hence they won't move to 7 day.
Once they own up and admit it to themselves everyone will be in a better state.
Until then they will keep filling up the forum with whiny crying because they can't kill people in Kaal

What does killing newbies have to do with faction lock? You can do that just as easily with or without it.

But I think this is an important accusation. It gets to the heart of the matter. You see multi-faction as a proxy for the underlying issue, which is players who are better than you that kill you.

You imagine faction lock as a way to "punish" them since you can't compete with them in PvP.

Killing newbies is related to faction locks because without locks, newbies tend to jump to the alliance that is dominating, where it's much easier for them to get kills with extra buffs and masses of other players that also jump to the dominant faction. The AP farmers know this and then jump to one of the underdog factions to farm said noobs, which is their bread-and-butter. All the 1-5vX pros thrive on the noobs, even if they won't admit it. Everyone says they want "good fights", when most of them really mean "wins", plus it looks really cool in their Twitch streams to win vs. superior numbers, and I'm sure the fawning comments from their fans can be a real ego boost.

Are you pc NA? I see a DC tabard, want to 4v4 or 5v5 me and all my faction hopping friends? I mean faction loyalist are the best players obvious

I know reading comprehension can be hard, but if you go back and look at what I wrote, I never said anything about who's more skilled between faction lock haters and supporters. In fact, I'd think that the faction hoppers were probably on average more skilled at ESO combat, mainly because the best indicator of player skill would be time in combat, and I'd guess that the longer one PvPs, the less one cares about factions in the Alliance War, on average. There's always exceptions.

But if you must stroke your epeen at me, then have at it. I have no ego about my average pvp skills, and it's completely irrelevant to this thread.

Zevrro · September 2019

Marcus684 wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

They just don't want to admit that they get their kicks killing newbies to cyro.
No newbies are going to join 7 day, hence they won't move to 7 day.
Once they own up and admit it to themselves everyone will be in a better state.
Until then they will keep filling up the forum with whiny crying because they can't kill people in Kaal

What does killing newbies have to do with faction lock? You can do that just as easily with or without it.

But I think this is an important accusation. It gets to the heart of the matter. You see multi-faction as a proxy for the underlying issue, which is players who are better than you that kill you.

You imagine faction lock as a way to "punish" them since you can't compete with them in PvP.

Killing newbies is related to faction locks because without locks, newbies tend to jump to the alliance that is dominating, where it's much easier for them to get kills with extra buffs and masses of other players that also jump to the dominant faction. The AP farmers know this and then jump to one of the underdog factions to farm said noobs, which is their bread-and-butter. All the 1-5vX pros thrive on the noobs, even if they won't admit it. Everyone says they want "good fights", when most of them really mean "wins", plus it looks really cool in their Twitch streams to win vs. superior numbers, and I'm sure the fawning comments from their fans can be a real ego boost.

Newbies tend to be the least likely to faction hop since they usually have an attachment to their alliance. The players hopping alliance aren't jumping to the dominant faction they're jumping to the least dominant.

If bad players are hopping to the dominant alliance then they likely aren't that much of a threat as they aren't going to learn pvp that way.

probabkyravi · September 2019

I spend all my AP on siege and stuff so towards end of campaigns I cannot afford to leave, it's quite annoying.

amir412 · September 2019

Not being able to play with my old friends is one thing,
I dont really care about the whole faction lock thing, i just think that the way it's implanted is a pure money grab(Magically after faction lock introduced, skill lines can be bought from CS).

ZOS decided to introduce such drastic change after all this time?
Fine, but at least execute it in the best way you can.

Not being able to play characters created specific for PVP because faction lcok is wrong, and ZOS has to give a solution for this.

Cernunnos55 · September 2019

Because faction swapping is one of the most concentrated causes for toxicity that I have seen in many online games. It creates an atmosphere of distrust amongst the people you play with, and it allows for the direct disruption of other people’s playing experiences. Maybe it’s not such a thing in Kaal, but in the other camps it was.

I had a situation whereby one guy who was primarily AD would switch to DC so that he could run into a keep ahead of us, grab an AD scroll, and delivery it back to them after we had worked for it. I had a situation where another person made a DC toon so they could turn up to every keep we took, hog the AP, and get emp specifically so DC’s emp push was worthless and no one active would get it. He then logged back onto AD. I’ve had people switch from EP to DC just to have total and complete meltdowns in zone about how X Y and Z person did A B and C and generally “I’m losing so screw you all”.

I thoroughly believe faction locks are a good thing, not just for the reasons above, but for many. The ones above are just personal to me.

Zevrro · September 2019

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

Because faction swapping is one of the most concentrated causes for toxicity that I have seen in many online games. It creates an atmosphere of distrust amongst the people you play with, and it allows for the direct disruption of other people’s playing experiences. Maybe it’s not such a thing in Kaal, but in the other camps it was.

I had a situation whereby one guy who was primarily AD would switch to DC so that he could run into a keep ahead of us, grab an AD scroll, and delivery it back to them after we had worked for it. I had a situation where another person made a DC toon so they could turn up to every keep we took, hog the AP, and get emp specifically so DC’s emp push was worthless and no one active would get it. He then logged back onto AD. I’ve had people switch from EP to DC just to have total and complete meltdowns in zone about how X Y and Z person did A B and C and generally “I’m losing so screw you all”.

I thoroughly believe faction locks are a good thing, not just for the reasons above, but for many. The ones above are just personal to me.

Faction locks don't prevent people trolling the campaign and even if it did it doesn't justify the huge amounts of problems that faction locks create. Since they were introduced I've seen just as many scrolls go in the river and just as much toxicity because faction locks don't make people start caring about the campaign.

Its easy to see faction locks as a good thing when you're a faction loyalist who only ever plays characters on one alliance because the faction lock doesn't affect you. You just stay locked to the same alliance as if the lock isn't even there. If you have characters on multiple alliance then every month you have to find out which alliance everyone is planning to lock to and then make a decision based on who you want to be able to pvp with and which characters you don't want to be locked out of for the next month.

Even if faction locks were the perfect solution to trolling I'd happily trade a pointless scroll occasionally getting picked up by the wrong person for this massive restriction on how people can pvp.

Cernunnos55 · September 2019

Well I'm afraid I don't share your perspectives. Which is fine - it isn't necessary for folk to agree. All I know is that I massively welcome the faction lock, and I was one of the many people requesting it before it happened. I think it's an excellent idea. It's not even permanent, it's just per campaign. If folk are that desperate to play with their friends, not every campaign has it, and Battlegrounds exists.

Zevrro · September 2019

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

Well I'm afraid I don't share your perspectives. Which is fine - it isn't necessary for folk to agree. All I know is that I massively welcome the faction lock, and I was one of the many people requesting it before it happened. I think it's an excellent idea. It's not even permanent, it's just per campaign. If folk are that desperate to play with their friends, not even campaign has it, and Battlegrounds exists.

Per campaign is a long time. The unlocked campaign has basically always been dead and BGs is a completely different type of pvp than cyro. Its hard enough to find good pvp in this game without being restricted to the 7 day and BGs.

Its not about being desperate to play with certain people its about having the freedom to do it because that's the point of a multiplayer game. Not exactly looking forward to having to pay 100k on every character so I can switch alliance next campaign.

Cernunnos55 · September 2019

So it’s not really important for you to be able to do it and therefore you are not desperate to do it, however it is really important that you can’t do it because it’s all about the freedom? So it’s the principle of the matter that’s bothering you?

It is indeed a multiplayer game, however it has several levels. One of those is “AvA”, alliance vs alliance, and what is the point of this principle if it’s not alliance vs alliance, but rather a bunch of people switching backwards and forwards depending on who is winning at the time? The title of this thread is that faction lock is not fair. My argument is that it is the embodiment of fairness. No switching just because you’re losing, or the other team got the hammer etc etc.

Cernunnos55 · September 2019

I guess someone's mad that someone disagreed with them huh

Zevrro · September 2019

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

So it’s not really important for you to be able to do it and therefore you are not desperate to do it, however it is really important that you can’t do it because it’s all about the freedom? So it’s the principle of the matter that’s bothering you?

It is indeed a multiplayer game, however it has several levels. One of those is “AvA”, alliance vs alliance, and what is the point of this principle if it’s not alliance vs alliance, but rather a bunch of people switching backwards and forwards depending on who is winning at the time? The title of this thread is that faction lock is not fair. My argument is that it is the embodiment of fairness. No switching just because you’re losing, or the other team got the hammer etc etc.

Its not specifically about me but yes being prevented from playing with my friends because of a lock that I haven't seen any benefits to since it was implemented does annoy me. I'm sure there are players who are desperate to be able to play with everyone who can't right now though.

People who are switching to the winning side are likely bad players who don't want to get better. The main reason people want to be able to switch alliances is so they can find good fights which is usually on the least populated alliance. If you're locked to the most populated and they're zerging down the entire map with double the numbers you can either join them and contribute to killing the map or just log off. Before faction lock players could switch to an underpopulated alliance and help prevent this which I did regularly.

I can understand how switching would be illogical in something like BGs but the idea that an alliance is a team that you should be loyal to doesn't really work in this game. AvA is just a large unorganised mass of players vs another unorganised mass of players. Players can team up and become organised but at that point alliance doesn't really matter since they've manually teamed up.

Ethardt · September 2019

#removeFactionlock

Tsuriel · September 2019

Now watch how the Imperial City will be packed while Cyro's getting emptier, allowing players to actually enjoy the DLC content with their friends.

johnjetau · September 2019

Since faction lock was implemented, the amount of in-fighting, toxic behavior in the DC chat for Kaalgrontild, has gotten better. It's not perfect. You will get the occasional AD or EP "fan" creep in, but for the most part faction locks are keeping, these players "locked" to there own factions.

And, I certainly haven't noticed a drop in population for Kaalgrontild, in-fact I would say the opposite. Even during non-prime time, when the Oceanic guilds/players are running the game seems very populated. - Even more so than it usually is.

Faction locks are not what is driving players away, from PVP. As others have said, its the performance issues - disconnecting while sieging a keep, having to run between keeps cause you're stuck in combat etc.

I personally like faction locks, and hope that it continues.

I do see the other side though and hope they introduce another 30-day campaign, so people can play a different alliance on each, but just not all 3 on the same, as has been the case in the past.

Katahdin · September 2019

dtsharples wrote: »

"It's empty" is not a valid argument!!! It's just the main one that losers have been using to avoid giving a real answer.
That is easily fixed if you just stop filling up Kaal - where apparently you are miserable - get off your lazy asses and go to the unlocked campaign.
WHY ARE YOU NOT GOING TO THE UNLOCKED CAMPAIGN? Give a real answer. I'll even accept "Because I want to farm potatoes"....but I don't presume that you'll be that honest or forthcoming, even to yourself

The real answer is most of the anti lockers want their 50 trans crystals per character.

Switching on a 30 day campain that is poplocked by all factions during prime time every night "Finding good fights" is a laughable excuse. You cant find "good fights" on your home faction in a campaign that is poplocked by all factions? Really?

zyk · September 2019

Katahdin wrote: »

Switching on a 30 day campain that is poplocked by all factions during prime time every night "Finding good fights" is a laughable excuse. You cant find "good fights" on your home faction in a campaign that is poplocked by all factions? Really?

1999 definition of a good fight: two roughly equal opponents pushing each other to determine who is best in a close matchup
2019 definition of a good fight: crushing opponents one outclasses

Zevrro · September 2019

Katahdin wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

"It's empty" is not a valid argument!!! It's just the main one that losers have been using to avoid giving a real answer.
That is easily fixed if you just stop filling up Kaal - where apparently you are miserable - get off your lazy asses and go to the unlocked campaign.
WHY ARE YOU NOT GOING TO THE UNLOCKED CAMPAIGN? Give a real answer. I'll even accept "Because I want to farm potatoes"....but I don't presume that you'll be that honest or forthcoming, even to yourself

The real answer is most of the anti lockers want their 50 trans crystals per character.

Switching on a 30 day campain that is poplocked by all factions during prime time every night "Finding good fights" is a laughable excuse. You cant find "good fights" on your home faction in a campaign that is poplocked by all factions? Really?

Yes really. 2 huge zergs firing siege at each other from either side of a breached keep is not a good fight. Prime time pvp on a pop locked campaign rarely has any competitive fights especially if you're in a small group.

If you seriously think the problem with faction locks is anything to do with transmute crystals you're kidding yourself.

Hotdog_23 · September 2019

I don't really play cyro so I don't have a dog in this fight but when I purchased the game 5-6 years I made 8 characters. Different classes and in different factions. Yet to delete any character now up to 18. Guess that is my fault since I refuse to delete and character I have created and spent time with. ZOS need to figure out a way to change alliances even it can only be done once.

Locking some people out of the ability to play a character they have created when your motto is "play away way you want" is not really true anymore.

Mr_Walker · September 2019

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

Because faction swapping is one of the most concentrated causes for toxicity that I have seen in many online games. It creates an atmosphere of distrust amongst the people you play with, and it allows for the direct disruption of other people’s playing experiences. Maybe it’s not such a thing in Kaal, but in the other camps it was.

I had a situation whereby one guy who was primarily AD would switch to DC so that he could run into a keep ahead of us, grab an AD scroll, and delivery it back to them after we had worked for it. I had a situation where another person made a DC toon so they could turn up to every keep we took, hog the AP, and get emp specifically so DC’s emp push was worthless and no one active would get it. He then logged back onto AD. I’ve had people switch from EP to DC just to have total and complete meltdowns in zone about how X Y and Z person did A B and C and generally “I’m losing so screw you all”.

I thoroughly believe faction locks are a good thing, not just for the reasons above, but for many. The ones above are just personal to me.

The camps that don't have faction locking... great problem solving by zos!

Katahdin · September 2019

Zevrro wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

"It's empty" is not a valid argument!!! It's just the main one that losers have been using to avoid giving a real answer.
That is easily fixed if you just stop filling up Kaal - where apparently you are miserable - get off your lazy asses and go to the unlocked campaign.
WHY ARE YOU NOT GOING TO THE UNLOCKED CAMPAIGN? Give a real answer. I'll even accept "Because I want to farm potatoes"....but I don't presume that you'll be that honest or forthcoming, even to yourself

The real answer is most of the anti lockers want their 50 trans crystals per character.

Switching on a 30 day campain that is poplocked by all factions during prime time every night "Finding good fights" is a laughable excuse. You cant find "good fights" on your home faction in a campaign that is poplocked by all factions? Really?

Yes really. 2 huge zergs firing siege at each other from either side of a breached keep is not a good fight. Prime time pvp on a pop locked campaign rarely has any competitive fights especially if you're in a small group.

When I played in Shor, there were tons of small mans all over the place. It was all small man groups, very few zergs at all.
If you dont like large group fighing, why do you join a PVP mode that is specifically designed for large group fighing?
It isnt meant for small man which is why you dont find many small man groups to fight.
Seems like the game mode just isnt your thing and thats fine, but stop trying to make into something its not just because it doesnt suit you.

ellahellabella · September 2019

Katahdin wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

"It's empty" is not a valid argument!!! It's just the main one that losers have been using to avoid giving a real answer.
That is easily fixed if you just stop filling up Kaal - where apparently you are miserable - get off your lazy asses and go to the unlocked campaign.
WHY ARE YOU NOT GOING TO THE UNLOCKED CAMPAIGN? Give a real answer. I'll even accept "Because I want to farm potatoes"....but I don't presume that you'll be that honest or forthcoming, even to yourself

The real answer is most of the anti lockers want their 50 trans crystals per character.

Switching on a 30 day campain that is poplocked by all factions during prime time every night "Finding good fights" is a laughable excuse. You cant find "good fights" on your home faction in a campaign that is poplocked by all factions? Really?

Yes really. 2 huge zergs firing siege at each other from either side of a breached keep is not a good fight. Prime time pvp on a pop locked campaign rarely has any competitive fights especially if you're in a small group.

When I played in Shor, there were tons of small mans all over the place. It was all small man groups, very few zergs at all.
If you dont like large group fighing, why do you join a PVP mode that is specifically designed for large group fighing?
It isnt meant for small man which is why you dont find many small man groups to fight.
Seems like the game mode just isnt your thing and thats fine, but stop trying to make into something its not just because it doesnt suit you.

The problem with the 7 day is that it is only active at that level during prime time, which lasts 4-5 hours. That's 19-20 hours of the server being deserted. Anyone else online at those hours has no choice but to play the 30 day campaigns.
Not a great level of fairness for an MMO that claims to cater to players worldwide now is it?

Zevrro · September 2019

Katahdin wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

dtsharples wrote: »

"It's empty" is not a valid argument!!! It's just the main one that losers have been using to avoid giving a real answer.
That is easily fixed if you just stop filling up Kaal - where apparently you are miserable - get off your lazy asses and go to the unlocked campaign.
WHY ARE YOU NOT GOING TO THE UNLOCKED CAMPAIGN? Give a real answer. I'll even accept "Because I want to farm potatoes"....but I don't presume that you'll be that honest or forthcoming, even to yourself

The real answer is most of the anti lockers want their 50 trans crystals per character.

Switching on a 30 day campain that is poplocked by all factions during prime time every night "Finding good fights" is a laughable excuse. You cant find "good fights" on your home faction in a campaign that is poplocked by all factions? Really?

Yes really. 2 huge zergs firing siege at each other from either side of a breached keep is not a good fight. Prime time pvp on a pop locked campaign rarely has any competitive fights especially if you're in a small group.

When I played in Shor, there were tons of small mans all over the place. It was all small man groups, very few zergs at all.
If you dont like large group fighing, why do you join a PVP mode that is specifically designed for large group fighing?
It isnt meant for small man which is why you dont find many small man groups to fight.
Seems like the game mode just isnt your thing and thats fine, but stop trying to make into something its not just because it doesnt suit you.

You're the one that suggested that a pop locked campaign during prime time must have good fights. I'm saying that isn't every players idea of a good fight. Outside of prime time populations are rarely balanced and not being able to switch factions doesn't help that.

Gilvoth · September 2019

zyk wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Switching on a 30 day campain that is poplocked by all factions during prime time every night "Finding good fights" is a laughable excuse. You cant find "good fights" on your home faction in a campaign that is poplocked by all factions? Really?

1999 definition of a good fight: two roughly equal opponents pushing each other to determine who is best in a close matchup
2019 definition of a good fight: crushing opponents one outclasses

Exactly, and they also use glitches and exploits, and then they top it off with a T-Bag to let their enemy know they are better at pvp.

Dominion_Nightblade · September 2019

Remove faction locks so I dont have to wait ten or so days to switch to ep.

For the pact!

dtsharples · September 2019

It does cater to a worldwide population though, you have the option to play in any campaign you like, over 2 servers, even.
On 3 different platforms.
Do you know what people do when they want to play with like minded people? They find a suitable guild and join it.
If there is no guild playing at the time when you are playing, that isn't an issue with the game, it's a situational issue that can't be easily solved - maybe you could start your own guild? If you already have a guild, recruitment might be an idea. If there is nobody to recruit, maybe you have isolated yourself by making too many niche choices in how and where you play. Businesses cater to the majority, not the minority - its just good business sense.

And if you can't find good fights in a 3-way-population locked campaign then you are indeed not looking hard enough.
What exactly are these 'good fights' that you are looking for? - please explain, for the community, we really want to know.
We hear it as an excuse all the time but nobody really outlines what the good fights are, what exactly are bad fights?

But, I'll make a quick presumption here, but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
You want to fight a somewhat equal number of opponents of the same skill level in a place where you won't be interrupted by a 'zerg' of other people?.......That's a battle ground, they're really quite fun, and theres no lag!

Alternatively this might be the good fight you are looking for:
Go to any capped resource of a different colour to the keep it belongs to and you'll find 4-8 tanks running in circles.
They usually hide behind the NPCs until a solo rando comes along and then they drop a few ulties while that rando is in an NPC negate. Obligatory TBag then go back to hiding behind the NPCs or running in circles the tower. Top game play......
Usually those people don't like to fight other similar groups though, it's like the opposite of a BG. As soon as anyone of equal skill shows up they either run away or immediately put up a camp as they know they're busted. Laughable really.

ks888 · September 2019

I feel you. I have 15 toons and 3/4 of them are in retirement because of faction lock. IC was a nice bit of nostalgia this week. Faction locks are lameeeeeeee.