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Faction lock is not fair

amir412
amir412
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Some of us grinded characters to play with our friends on the opposite factions,
or simply just got fed up with the behavior of our faction, morning cap, etc...

After faction lock made it to live, i literally do not login to my recent grinded char - Because simply most of my chars are AD,
So putting a home campaign on non-AD char is unreasonable.

Give us alliance change token, so our time of grinding wont go to waste.

PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1020 CP|
"..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • idk
    idk
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    Turelus wrote: »
    From conversations I had with them they were not planning any kind of alliance change tokens or unbinding alliances from character creation. However with the constant feedback about how alliance change has impacted their "play with friends" I do wonder if they will change on that.

    I could imagine the quick solution would be to just add a 30 day non-locked campaign.

    I would agree the 30 day unlocked campaign would be the easiest solution. However, one way or another Zos has a choice. Do something to rectify this or show complete disdain for players impacted by Zos' reversal.
    Really, idk
  • idk
    idk
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    Turelus wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    From conversations I had with them they were not planning any kind of alliance change tokens or unbinding alliances from character creation. However with the constant feedback about how alliance change has impacted their "play with friends" I do wonder if they will change on that.

    I could imagine the quick solution would be to just add a 30 day non-locked campaign.

    I would agree the 30 day unlocked campaign would be the easiest solution. However, one way or another Zos has a choice. Do something to rectify this or show complete disdain for players impacted by Zos' reversal.
    The thing is when it wasn't locked we had a forum full of "bring back lock" threads, then when it was we started getting the "remove lock threads"

    It's the same with what happened with Battlegrounds and CP/No-CP. ZOS either has to find a way to appease everyone (which I am not sure there is enough PvP population to do with offering all options) or make a choice, and stick to it. Which isn't ever going to be popular with the people it burns, but at least holds consistent.

    I understand that. So much of the forums if full of threads from players wanting something different than it is and some topics are much more frequent than the most. That is not going to change now that Zos has made it clear they head the squeaky wheel.

    However, my point about the effect of Zos' choices and decisions is Zos chose to remove faction locks. Some players have created characters in different factions as a result and many, if not most, did this for purely innocent reasons. Zos has harmed them.

    So Zos really has two options. Two 30 day campaigns with one locked and one not or bite the bullet and overcome the technical hurdles and offer a limited time faction change. Otherwise they show clear contempt for those they have harmed. I do not see another way around that.
    Really, idk
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    idk wrote: »
    So Zos really has two options. Two 30 day campaigns with one locked and one not or bite the bullet and overcome the technical hurdles and offer a limited time faction change. Otherwise they show clear contempt for those they have harmed. I do not see another way around that.
    Agreed. I can't even predict their outcome on this one, sometimes they make appeasements (and would add a campaign) other times they just leave it as a "this is how it is now" and people have to suck it up.

    I honestly don't understand why there wasn't a locked and unlocked 30 day campaign. I guess the issues though is how many various types of PvP they need to appease now. Locked/Unlocked and CP/No CP
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
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  • Nermy
    Nermy
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    I think faction lock may have changed the dynamics in Cyro a bit but it's hard to see how. If it is that EP win a campaign after 30 years (seems like it) of AD morning caps by night capping, I'm all for it ;)
    @Nermy
    Leader of The Wabbajack [EU EP PvP guild on Vivec.] Recruitment is OPEN!
    Member of The Light Knights.
    BLOOD FOR THE PACT!!!

    Nerm'a - EP Nightblade, Nerm-in'a'tor - EP Dragon Knight, N'erm - EP Sorcerer, D'arkness - EP Nightblade, Nermy - EP Templar

    “Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "An Army is a team; lives, sleeps, eats, fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is a lot of crap." -General George S. Patton

    "“Fate whispers, 'You can not withstand the storm.'
    Wabbajack whispers back, 'We are the storm."
  • Nermy
    Nermy
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    Will people just leave the 30 day CP campaign alone! Even the unpronounceable name...

    Oh and OP, life's not fair.
    Edited by Nermy on June 18, 2019 11:00AM
    @Nermy
    Leader of The Wabbajack [EU EP PvP guild on Vivec.] Recruitment is OPEN!
    Member of The Light Knights.
    BLOOD FOR THE PACT!!!

    Nerm'a - EP Nightblade, Nerm-in'a'tor - EP Dragon Knight, N'erm - EP Sorcerer, D'arkness - EP Nightblade, Nermy - EP Templar

    “Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "An Army is a team; lives, sleeps, eats, fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is a lot of crap." -General George S. Patton

    "“Fate whispers, 'You can not withstand the storm.'
    Wabbajack whispers back, 'We are the storm."
  • LarsS
    LarsS
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    @Sanct16

    1. You say you cant play with friends, strange just join the locked campaing on the same faction. If you dont have char on all factions agree on a faction on which all can play, or create a new char for the agreed faction. I cant see the problem. What I think you really arguing for, is the alliance jumping.
    2. We both agree on nightcapping and have asked ZOS to adapt the campaign points to the population level, without any success yet. I think it is time to renew that effort.

    Finally I dont think we have seen the final result of faction lock yet, it will take some time before we can juge the result. Personally I would prefer 7 day campaings, I see no extra advantage of the 30 day version.
    GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC
  • Vietfox
    Vietfox
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    Sanct16 wrote: »
    Vietfox wrote: »
    Sanct16 wrote: »
    Vietfox wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    I could imagine the quick solution would be to just add a 30 day non-locked campaign.

    Why don't you guys move to the 7 days one already? That would be the quickest and easiest solution.
    - Assuming they added an unlocked 30 days campaign you would need to move anyway.
    - Since you care only about fights and not the alliance doesn't matter if the campaign resets every 7 or 30 days.
    - If you want greater rewards then make up your mind and choose an alliance.

    Faction lock is great and should had been always like this.

    The problem is that the population is so small that only 1-2 campaigns are populated.

    Against what some forumers might believe the majority of players doesn't care about faction-locks and just joined the 30day CP campaign as it's the new Vive or the 30day No-CP campaign as it's the new Sotha. So both "main" campaigns are faction-locked and the 7-day campaign continues to be as dead as ever.

    If the 7 day campaign would be faction-locked and the 30 day campaign faction-free we would see the same thing: Everyone playing on 30 day campaigns and almost noone on the 7 day campaign.

    If the majority of players don't care about faction locks then it's fine as it is since seems to be ok for them.
    If people really want unlocked campaigns they can go to shor, even if unpopulated, so they can fill the bar and show to others that Shor is not dead anymore.
    The 7 days campaign should never be the faction locked one. People who stick to an alliance despite of wining or losing should get greater rewards than those who keep switching.
    You could make exactly the same argument to argue for removing faction locks.

    Except the last point.
  • Cathexis
    Cathexis
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    I've suggested an idea around this a number of times .. because I knew this would be an issue with just faction locking.

    They should have implemented a contract system where your end of campaign reward scales proportionally to

    -When you join a faction. (Day 1 vs Day 30).
    -A factions overall population. (Most players vs least players)
    -A factions active population. (More active players vs less active players).
    -A factions current point score (Higher vs lower, and by what margin).

    As the campaign progresses rewards would deminish, proportional these factors. That way it promotes you making a definitive commitment at the beginning of a campaign, but allows players to change their commitment at a relative penalty (so for example, if all of the last three variables are all downgrades, no penalties are applied, ranging up to all three of the latter being upgrades, resulting in the largest penalty, which would scale up to maximum at day 30).

    This way, players could change factions, but are incentivized not to, and to plan their commitment ahead of time.
    Edited by Cathexis on June 18, 2019 11:36AM
    Praise Malacath.
  • amir412
    amir412
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    LarsS wrote: »
    @Sanct16

    1. You say you cant play with friends, strange just join the locked campaing on the same faction. If you dont have char on all factions agree on a faction on which all can play, or create a new char for the agreed faction. I cant see the problem. What I think you really arguing for, is the alliance jumping.

    And back to it again, why should he grind a char, again, cuz poorly implanted system?
    Some of us does not have the time as we used to have 4 years ago.
    This solution is non-sense, grinding a new char is a torture, for me at least.
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1020 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • Sanct16
    Sanct16
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    @LarsS
    There are people who played on different factions before the change and now can only play with some of their friends while they can't play with others.

    I personally only play with my guild 3-4 times a week and dont log in the rest of the time so it doesnt matter to me.

    @Vietfox
    I would not be opposed to change the reward system so people who were loyal receive additional end-of-campaign rewards. In fact I suggested exactly this in another thread.
    So the last point doesn't require faction locks.
    - EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
    AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
    EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
    AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
    AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
    EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
    AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
    AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
    EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
    EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
    DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
    DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB

    >290.000.000 AP
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    I don't think ZOS sees it as giving you no choice or that you can't play with your friends. They have unlocked campaigns (except for the non-CP folks) and the choice is available(as far as they're concerned).
    A lot of faction lock advocates are saying the same thing.

    I play one faction only. I didn't particularly care if there were ever faction locks for everyone else, and the faction locked campaign is still unplayable during the hours that I normally play due to poor server performance...so I guess I really don't have a dog in the race, but I don't think the "I can't play all my characters or with my friends" thing is getting much traction because people absolutely can, but choose not to. ZOS could even say that the absence of an unlocked non-CP campaign still isn't limiting, because players can go to the unlocked CP campaign, so the option exists even if players choose not to take it.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • Master_Kas
    Master_Kas
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    amir412 wrote: »
    Some of us grinded characters to play with our friends on the opposite factions,
    or simply just got fed up with the behavior of our faction, morning cap, etc...

    After faction lock made it to live, i literally do not login to my recent grinded char - Because simply most of my chars are AD,
    So putting a home campaign on non-AD char is unreasonable.

    Give us alliance change token, so our time of grinding wont go to waste.

    I wanted to make a necro on EP this time round. Thought the locks just mean if you swap faction you lose your leaderboard AP which would be fine.

    Then I was forced to make a EP dk to pvp with as I cannot play on my yellow one.

    Feelsbadman :neutral:

    Atleast I powerleveled that character with a bunch of alchemy master writs, so it didn't take long..
    Edited by Master_Kas on June 18, 2019 1:20PM
    EU | PC
    AD
    Master Kas - Nightblade ★
    Al Sah-Him - Nightblade★
    Dickon Tarly - Dragonknight ★
    Steve's Little Healslave - Templar
    Dominion Hero - Warden

    EP
    Kassandra Miho - Nightblade ★
    Dąenerys - Dragonknight
    Say No To Faction Locks - Sorcerer
    Bash Zum Letzten Mann - Necromancer

    DC
    Cheat Engine - Nightblade ★
    Valkyrja - Dragonknight
    Alva - Sorcerer
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    amir412 wrote: »
    Ofc we can play with our friends on horse simulator, or pvdoor, we have PVE for that.

    That's your take on it, and I get that, I just don't think ZOS does. The campaign is there, so the option is there.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • TriangularChicken
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    frostz417 wrote: »
    Here’s a simple solution. Faction lock the 7 day and keep the 30 day unlocked. Then you can really see if faction lock is so popular or not. Because locking the 30 day just screws most people due to the fact that most casuals will just dog pile into the 30 regardless if it has a lock or not.

    Exactly, locking the 7 day campaign would have been an interesting experiment. The faction loyal zerglings don't want to fight (without sieges..you know..skills - the symbols that you find on your action bars next to snipe) anyway - 7 day PvDoor for the queen/king is exactly what they need.
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