Why are the average players in this game so bad?

BNOC · August 2019

Not enough incentive to improve

It's a mixture of the bottom two for me.

The game doesn't adequately teach (new-to-MMO) players their class and instead goes too far in making the game easy - I believe experienced MMO players will just get on without issue.

At the same time, when they're churning out change after change with things like pet sorcs, proc sets and anything that can be considered a carry, they're gimping these players further - Average players obviously gravitate towards ease (See fotm chasers), whilst those that are more interested and don't need the assistance are likely the types that have to learn to deal with assisted builds.

After a patch of a casual running about amongst his pets whilst they do damage and they heavy attack, that's all they learned.
After the same patch of someone decent fighting this guy, they've learned a lot more about the game.

I suppose that has an impact on the skill gap, but it's a choice to require assistance so I wouldn't let them ride on that.

DMBCML · August 2019

Gatviper wrote: »

Everybody is good as long as they're playing on their own. Which is completely fine and cool. But if people get into a group, doing group content, and can't competitively hold their role within the group, that quickly becomes bad.
Not everybody realizes that of course, single player games never force you to be competitive, but MMOs do, and sooner or later you've got to learn the curve, or just stay on easy solo content. I mean, unless someone likes to be kicked all the time from groups or get called out by some people for not performing too well.

When it comes to dungeons and trials and such, I can learn that with the best of them. I just haven't completed the rest of the game content yet, so have not done all the dungeons. I save that stuff for last. However, when I do join in, I can do my job just fine. I'd rather not because I see so many people being rude to each other, but that's another matter. I suspect the OP is one of those persons or would not have posted it here. I've been here since Beta. There is more content here than I have been able to complete and they just keep adding more

However, the reason I don't like to do the dungeons is because of the 'grinders' who are in it for the merchandise, no fun allowed, in a hurry, and rude about it. That really does suck.

Odovacar · August 2019

It's a MMORPG... there's always going to be more casual players than the great ones. Some either have it right away or they don't until they really want it. For many simple questing and random activities gives them joy. For the smaller percentage it's routinely challenging themselves to some of the hardest content in the game.

At the end of the day its a game to relax and have fun with. I've known players for years that still have yet to step into a normal trial or do vet DLC dungeons and are happy as a clam.

I control who I play with and if I PUG, well, I know there's a fair chance to be paired with low skilled players. We as a gaming community should take time in those situations and try and help... not question why so many cant hang with the big boys/gals, lol.

Heatnix90 · August 2019

Not enough incentive to improve

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....

P much this, there's a difference between being able to pull 600K scores/complete the hardest content and being able to do relatively simple content like Fungal I.

Ye_Olde_Crowe · August 2019

ESO was marketed as a MMORPG from the start ... a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. It was not marketed as a combat game, whatever that may be. Combat has a way bigger percentage of overall gameplay in the fighting/beat'em up genre, in first person shooters, MOBAs, battle royale, RTS and SGT games than it has in MMORPGs.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · August 2019

Why do so many players that post surveys about bad players not realize they aren't the great player they think they are?

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2019

Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasks

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Why do so many players that post surveys about bad players not realize they aren't the great player they think they are?

Agreed Im pretty terrible

DMBCML · August 2019

Ye_Olde_Crowe wrote: »

ESO was marketed as a MMORPG from the start ... a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. It was not marketed as a combat game, whatever that may be. Combat has a way bigger percentage of overall gameplay in the fighting/beat'em up genre, in first person shooters, MOBAs, battle royale, RTS and SGT games than it has in MMORPGs.

True! It was made for people who played Elder Scrolls games. Most were expecting a Skyrim like game. I was severely disappointed when I found out it was not, and may not be that quality in my remaining lifetime.

J2JMC · August 2019

You really in here complaining about fungal grotto runs lol.

25k dps from both your DD's will get you the speedrun+no death achievement on all the base game vet dungeons and at least vWGT. Given how much they've supposedly nerfed things according to the forums, 25k will probably get you these achievements for vICP and vCradle of Shadows as well.

Source: A former mag nb pve dd who has never broken 25k dps on a target dummy and got those achievements in 2015/2016.

As others have said, if bad players bother you so much, just find a guild.

zaria · August 2019

Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasks

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

the jump from overworld content to vet dungeons could be graphed like a bitcoin moonshot when liquidity on the offers dry up. The problem was created when they nerfed the veteran rank system in overwold difficulty. Cadwell's silver, you needed to learn basics, if you weren't a sorc with an elemental at the time, CC, blocking, moving out of red, and by the time you finished Cadwell's gold you were a good player, more so if you spent some time in PVP. At that time the rules in PVP were distinctly different, bash wouldn't interrupt, some things you'd be used to blocking in PVE wouldn't be blockable in PVP still it helped your reaction time to prompts.

Don't think harder overworld is ever coming back but normal dungeons could be jigged up a bit to make them a better training ground for novice players.

Yes, problem with normals is that they are pretty hard for new players who don't understand the game and don't have gear.

But standard run is one new level 30, the cp700 who does random normal to farm CP, the 810 who need the quest and does normal as healer to avoid queue and its an trash build, last the lvl 35 cp810 in purple training gear who level an new alt.
Or it could be 2 guys farming for an weapon.
The level 30 will not learn much.

BaiterOfZergs · August 2019

Technically they aren’t bad, just average. There’s good, average and noob.

Skwor · August 2019

This thread defines arrogance, elitism and epeen all at once.

madarame_77 · August 2019

Why is average OP forum posters so bad?

Surak73 · August 2019

You should define "bad" first. "Bad" in which respect? For example, I'm terribly bad in fishing: I've never ever got a single fishing achievement. Maybe this is because I don't give a f..k about fishing, and I prefer other aspects of the game. Likewise, it's perfectly possible that some players don't give a f..k about pvp, crafting, dungeons, exploration, trials, quests, socialization etc. and so they are bad in pvp, crafting, dungeons, exploration, trials, quests, socialization etc.

I have absolutely no idea about how many people are bad in each of the single different aspects of the game, but I think that the general answer might be: they are bad in that aspect simply because they don't give a f..k about it.

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2019

Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasks

Skwor wrote: »

This thread defines arrogance, elitism and epeen all at once.

Agreed

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2019

Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasks

Surak73 wrote: »

You should define "bad" first. "Bad" in which respect? For example, I'm terribly bad in fishing: I've never ever got a single fishing achievement. Maybe this is because I don't give a f..k about fishing, and I prefer other aspects of the game. Likewise, it's perfectly possible that some players don't give a f..k about pvp, crafting, dungeons, exploration, trials, quests, socialization etc. and so they are bad in pvp, crafting, dungeons, exploration, trials, quests, socialization etc.

I have absolutely no idea about how many people are bad in each of the single different aspects of the game, but I think that the general answer might be: they are bad in that aspect simply because they don't give a f..k about it.

Makes sense, what doesnt make sense is if they dont give a F. about it why do they participate in that content? I dont care about housing, so I dont own a house:)

SirAndy · August 2019

Define "bad" ...

x48rph · August 2019

Skwor wrote: »

This thread defines arrogance, elitism and epeen all at once.

And is totally pointless.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · August 2019

Skill cap is high

Average players aren't bad, they are just 'average'. Not everyone can be an apex player.

VDoom1 · August 2019

Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasks

Not calling anyone bad. However say you enter a veteran trial for the first time, there is like nothing that prepares you for it. That first time will be what teaches you. Learn by doing, that is how you handle a lot.

One tutorial that really needs to be added is block. To a new player when an enemy draws back their weapon slowly and it flashes yellow, what the heck is that supposed to mean? I guess they will realize "oh block" when they get knocked on their butt. But a new player may not even know how to block, which is essential in trials and most dungeons.

Defilted · August 2019

I would say most players do not get to spend hours upon hours honing their skills. The people that are better are the ones that spend more time in the game.

I dont think it is anymore complicated than that.

Agenericname · August 2019

Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasks

Since average is well...average. This can only be a cleverly disguised "nerf FG1" thread.

ZOS most likely stopped reading at a healer doing 80% of the damage and is now preparing to nerf healers.

The nerfs to healers will result in a shield nerf to sorcs. This is now a nerf sorc thread.

Rungar · August 2019

the game is no longer designed for them?

Gandrhulf_Harbard · August 2019

Troll with a Poll, is still a Troll

All The Best

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2019

Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasks

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Troll with a Poll, is still a Troll

All The Best

TheBonesXXX · August 2019

I rather spend twelves hours making money were as you rather spend 12 hours with no return on your investment.

Also, at any point in time people like myself decide we want to crap on the top players we can practice and do it with ease.

Peak me and the like > peak people like you and you.

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2019

Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasks

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

I rather spend twelves hours making money were as you rather spend 12 hours with no return on your investment.

Also, at any point in time people like myself decide we want to crap on the top players we can practice and do it with ease.

Peak me and the like > peak people like you and you.

Actually most top tier player I play with dont spend a lot of time in game, they are just naturally good and aware and pick up new mechanics fast. As far as prioritizing IRL I absolutely agree. Some of us can work 4 hrs a day and make 6 figures though. So they dont need to work 12 hrs to make good money:)

OlumoGarbag · August 2019

Skill cap is high

Agenericname wrote: »

Bad in what sense? The question lacks context.

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

He is clearly talking about housing. And regarding this I have to say the housing skill cap is too damn high. People can't even get the lighting right.
Most people can't even animation cancle their dinner Roleplay animations... Geez

In all fairness the game does not adequately teach a player how to properly animation cancel any dinner animations much less dinner roleplay animations.

lucky for you i can teach you that.
1. Download eso Theater
2. go to controlls menu scroll down and set keys for "show all" and emotes 1,2,3....
3. select your favorite emotes
4. animation cancel one emote animation with another
5. ??????
6. Profit

If done right it should look something like this (/rake + /leanbackcoin + /headache)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOB69zqWunk

buttaface · August 2019

Love the snowflakey indignation in the thread. I'm a lousy bad carpenter and terribad dancer and awful baseball hitter. So what? Everyone reading this is good and bad at many things, recoiling to some group of people being called bad is reminiscent of the "trophy for all" culture we live in I guess.

There is an answer as to why most FTP or quasi FTP players in MMOs today are bad, it has several branches and goes way back to the early century (funny to say "early century"). There are also specific reasons players in this game are worse than others generally.

Back in the day, early MMO gamers witnessed the branch off between "hard" games, AO, Shadowbane, UO, other games that -required- strong teamplay to advance usually related to player and guild asset control PvP or even PvE (AO had 200 levels and you wouldn't be going far past 20 without sound teamplay), and "easy" more rote level learning arcade type games with gear treadmills, WOW, EQ, ESO and everything since. The hard games LOST big time, and to this day have trouble succeeding financially. Have watched many great games fail, some almost out of the gate, due to requiring strong teamplay to do the content, Global Agenda one great example.

If a) it isn't backed by very strong IP, and b) it isn't an "assinchair" rote level learning arcade type play experience, it is likely not going to do well.

ESO players are generally bad because a) the game allows way too much crutching on pet classes which can carry a player all the way to CP cap, b) most of the quests are too easy and almost all are soloable, c) exp caves such as Alikr dolmens and other farms are more available in this game than others, d) Skyrim and the other single player IP that backs this game brings in many solo players who don't learn how the game works because they really don't need to learn, the game's "press three keys to get the effect of one in better games" LA weaving turns many off. I wouldn't buy a word processor that required 3 key presses per letter, even if the salesman claimed it was good because it had a higher "skill ceiling," and I'm not going to go out of my way to achieve what I have in other games because of this crucial design error.

SoLooney · August 2019

Cause the average player has no idea how to properly dps, tank, or heal and its not necessarily their fault.

If they don't look up guides on youtube or from high end pve guilds, then they're really not gonna improve

You can see how small the end game community is and especially on console. Zos doesnt help by having horrible frames, lag, horrible telegraphs, freezing and infinite loss screens and ads not spawning in

So I'm gonna blame zos for not properly helping newer and average players and not caring about how their game runs