Maintenance for the week of December 15:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
Why are the average players in this game so bad?
-
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksthe jump from overworld content to vet dungeons could be graphed like a bitcoin moonshot when liquidity on the offers dry up. The problem was created when they nerfed the veteran rank system in overwold difficulty. Cadwell's silver, you needed to learn basics, if you weren't a sorc with an elemental at the time, CC, blocking, moving out of red, and by the time you finished Cadwell's gold you were a good player, more so if you spent some time in PVP. At that time the rules in PVP were distinctly different, bash wouldn't interrupt, some things you'd be used to blocking in PVE wouldn't be blockable in PVP still it helped your reaction time to prompts.
Don't think harder overworld is ever coming back but normal dungeons could be jigged up a bit to make them a better training ground for novice players.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksDocFrost72 wrote: »As soon as I saw the post I knew who it was.
Maybe what you call "bad" is "average", and maybe it is okay that average players can't complete high tier content like you can? After all, would you want the average player to be able to complete vHoF HM?
What i want is to be able to enjoy simple vet dungeons when I run them. Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....6 -
G1Countdown✭✭✭✭✭The real question is why does this question seem so judgmental? Why do you need to diagnose why? There will be some cases where players will not be capable of completing content and that may result in coaching or kicking in some cases, and that is ok. Casual players are not bad. We don't need to fix them.10 -
Gatviper✭✭✭✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksEverybody is good as long as they're playing on their own. Which is completely fine and cool. But if people get into a group, doing group content, and can't competitively hold their role within the group, that quickly becomes bad.
Not everybody realizes that of course, single player games never force you to be competitive, but MMOs do, and sooner or later you've got to learn the curve, or just stay on easy solo content. I mean, unless someone likes to be kicked all the time from groups or get called out by some people for not performing too well.Edited by Gatviper on August 16, 2019 2:22PMLife is a ride, like days in a train, cities rush by, like ghosts in the night.
The rhythm of wheels, time fades away, stations of a journey, destination unknown.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »As soon as I saw the post I knew who it was.
Maybe what you call "bad" is "average", and maybe it is okay that average players can't complete high tier content like you can? After all, would you want the average player to be able to complete vHoF HM?
What i want is to be able to enjoy simple vet dungeons when I run them. Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
Get a guild. I'm surprised you don't already have one, Nos
1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksDocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »As soon as I saw the post I knew who it was.
Maybe what you call "bad" is "average", and maybe it is okay that average players can't complete high tier content like you can? After all, would you want the average player to be able to complete vHoF HM?
What i want is to be able to enjoy simple vet dungeons when I run them. Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
Get a guild. I'm surprised you don't already have one, Nos
I have plenty...noone runs the dungeons, we have all gotten enough keys like years ago to last for all the DLCs...I have to random que lol0 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Skill cap is highit's a mixture of all of the above i suppose.
the game does have a fair amount of room for personal improvement as a player, a large majority of content doesn't require one to better themselves along that skill cap, and most players are what we would refer to as "casual", meaning they don't really care to or have the time to commit to that improvement
it's to be expected that in such a large group of people, the majority are going to be an unimpressive "common rabble"skingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
0 -
ghastley✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Bad", for a lot of players, means "the jhealer can't keep me alive" or "the tank can't keep the bosses away from me", or some similar complaint that everyone else isn't playing purely for their benefit. They're the star who deserves special treatment, and nobody else matters.
To me, those are the "bad" players. And fortunately, they're not the majority.3 -
valerie✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »What i want is to be able to enjoy simple vet dungeons when I run them. Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
Counterquestion: why not find a guild with like-minded players who play at your level? Or at least corresponding friends? If that's not possible and you have so much experience and are so much better than the others, you should be able to stay calm. Drink your tea, click the mouse from time to time and stay relaxed. That's exactly what the others do.5 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »As soon as I saw the post I knew who it was.
Maybe what you call "bad" is "average", and maybe it is okay that average players can't complete high tier content like you can? After all, would you want the average player to be able to complete vHoF HM?
What i want is to be able to enjoy simple vet dungeons when I run them. Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
Get a guild. I'm surprised you don't already have one, Nos
I have plenty...noone runs the dungeons, we have all gotten enough keys like years ago to last for all the DLCs...I have to random que lol
Can run with me, though I'm PCNA. I thought you were EU. If you are NA, message me on here and I'll toss you my @ name. If the dungeon can be soloed without sorc pets, I've done it so no need to worry about that. I give away gear I don't need free too 0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »Other. Not everyone is a Thicc Thot Tormentor or Godslayer. Most people are casual players.
Agreed. YoloBlazeScopez420 watches streamers and expects pug randoms to be at that level.3 -
JadonSky✭✭✭✭✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksI would say most complaints I see in the forum is "How do you hit the 50k+ dps" which the game never really walks you though how animation canceling is key now (even though I think this is a BS mechanic in the game) and how to best plan skill rotation to achieve this.
1 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksWhen I first started playing, 3 skeevers would be life threatening. You had to work to survive. I'd strck to the roads, take wide diversions around wolves. But now... from about cp200, overland became a pushover. I stopped learning because survival is easy, normal dungeons are easy but vet dungeons were a shock I'm still wary of. Only now that I've started trying vMA, have I really started learning to improve and survive again. I've only got to the 3rd round but already my dps and survivability have suddenly improved enough that I can start soloing world bosses. The easy overland and normal content lull you into thinking you can already play well. If you think you know everything, you stop learning.4 -
blnchk✭✭✭✭✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »Because the game if extremely difficult to master if you want get past the 20-25k dps cliff. Keeping track of dots, rotations and then still being able to adhere to the strict 0.45 sec GCD the combat system demands is hard for most players.
Unless ZOS fundamentally changes this nothing will change. And honestly, they have given up any kind of support for midcore players with Morrowind.
This. Basically, ESO's subpar combat design leads to a skill gap that is ridiculously wide. It is ridiculously wide because even with proper instructions, average players cannot overcome this. Animation cancelling is, in part, to blame, though it's not the only reason.
I am not sure what constitutes an average player, DPS-wise. I'd probably take the 25-35k range as a starting point.3 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required taskshedna123b14_ESO wrote: »What i want is to be able to enjoy simple vet dungeons when I run them. Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
Counterquestion: why not find a guild with like-minded players who play at your level? Or at least corresponding friends? If that's not possible and you have so much experience and are so much better than the others, you should be able to stay calm. Drink your tea, click the mouse from time to time and stay relaxed. That's exactly what the others do.
Its not a me issue though, its an issue for a lot of people and for the game itself. the more skilled players there are the more content can be run. The players that struggle in Fungal Grotto 1 will not be able to complete trials and thats not a ME issue, thats bad for the game...2 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksDocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »As soon as I saw the post I knew who it was.
Maybe what you call "bad" is "average", and maybe it is okay that average players can't complete high tier content like you can? After all, would you want the average player to be able to complete vHoF HM?
What i want is to be able to enjoy simple vet dungeons when I run them. Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
Get a guild. I'm surprised you don't already have one, Nos
I have plenty...noone runs the dungeons, we have all gotten enough keys like years ago to last for all the DLCs...I have to random que lol
Can run with me, though I'm PCNA. I thought you were EU. If you are NA, message me on here and I'll toss you my @ name. If the dungeon can be soloed without sorc pets, I've done it so no need to worry about that. I give away gear I don't need free too
Ive finished undaunted on my magcro today so im done with pledges till the next class comes out, but its just sad that so little is done to elevate the average player0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksTequilaFire wrote: »Other - this is not an esport or highly competitive game.
It is an MMORPG.
This. Not everyone is "competitive" (not even necessarily with themselves). As long as they're comfortable, It's OK.
(of course, if they're fine just cruising along through the game, they probably shouldn't be going into Vet content.)
---
That said - yeah, the game doesn't teach you most of what's needed at higher levels. Not that most MMOs I've ever played do - the MMO forums I've read in the past decade have always been full of "go read <guide>, watch training videos, read <l33t d00d's blog-o-ego> if you want to know how to play".
edit: and yeah, I'm one of those people who's fine just being mediocre. But I don't inflict myself on other peoples' groups. Been happily soloing my way through overland & quest content since vanilla WoW (SWToR, STO, NWO, SWL, CoH. . .)Edited by Kiralyn2000 on August 16, 2019 2:49PM2 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Because being casual is fun and not everyone wants to be as cool and awesome as you.6 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksjainiadral wrote: »Because being casual is fun and not everyone wants to be as cool and awesome as you.
again, not about me, about the healthy state of the game...1 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jainiadral wrote: »Because being casual is fun and not everyone wants to be as cool and awesome as you.
again, not about me, about the healthy state of the game...
The game is healthy when it has a large and happy population. That's it, pure and simple.16 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you think themepark MMORPGs are about skilled play, then the problem is between your chair and your screen.
Edited by Sylosi on August 16, 2019 3:01PM4 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required tasksjainiadral wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jainiadral wrote: »Because being casual is fun and not everyone wants to be as cool and awesome as you.
again, not about me, about the healthy state of the game...
The game is healthy when it has a large and happy population. That's it, pure and simple.
The game's main purpose from the start was combat. While the later additions such as housing are great, it makes no sense to have a game focused on combat, but yet the average player isnt prepeared for it.0 -
DMBCML✭✭✭eklhaftb16_ESO wrote: »Average players aren't bad. Average players are, well, average.
Thing is, many people are here primarily for the "Elder Scrolls" part, not so much for the "Online" part. They are not interested in the "Online" content as such, they're only doing it because devs are trying to force them into it with "incentives" (read: by locking stuff they do want, behind the content they don't want). Guess what happens when you force people into doing something they don't want to do? Yes, exactly: they will do it, but they won't put any effort into it.
Don't blame players. Blame the devs. After all those years, they could've finally realized that content-specific rewards are inconvenient for all participating parties. Casuals will be annoyed for having to run content they don't want to get a reward they do want; pros will be annoyed for having to play with casuals; forum mods will be annoyed for having to lock more threads like this; and so on.
EXACTLY. If I ever play any PvP it is because I have to to get what I want. Will I be good at it? Probably not unless someone wants to teach me what I don't really want to know except to get what I want, and then I am out of PvP. I do not play Imperial City or any other PvP portion of this game. Too bad Imperial City hasn't been fixed to remove the forced PvP because the PvE portion of it looks fun. That's several whole currencies and lots of skyshards I never got and likely never will get them. And I have been here since Beta.5 -
I'm a case in point, played since beta and still pretty poor.
Why haven't I improved?
1) Lack of time to devote to something that is a pastime. It's entertainment, not a full-time job. Get a life.
2) Lack of incentive. It's entertainment, not a full-time job, it doesn't pay as well. Get a job.
3) I'm OLD, my reflexes are slowing down not speeding up, muscle memory is already dedicated to everyday living not speeding up my rotation.
4) I have real life friends, mostly in my age group, none play computer games, Real life friends take priority, I don't have time to socialise with a guild to GitGud.
I'm here because it's a TES game, not because ESO is an MMORPG. Once TES VI comes out I will be on my way, until then I'll hang around both ESO and the forums making up the numbers, not worrying about whether I'm any good or not because once back in the solo world of TES VI no one will know or care how good I am.
11 -
KMarble✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »As soon as I saw the post I knew who it was.
Maybe what you call "bad" is "average", and maybe it is okay that average players can't complete high tier content like you can? After all, would you want the average player to be able to complete vHoF HM?
Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
You answered your own question.
None of us was born knowing all. At some point we had to learn things - be it how to walk IRL, or what to do in a dungeon in ESO.
I've run with groups that don't respect mechanics (and yes, depending on what you're doing the group needs to follow mechanics even on normal). That specific group is supposed to cater to newer players, but they don't tell anyone what to expect or how to react. As you might suspect, the runs are a mess.
Those runs would probably go much smoother if the people who had already done those dungeons told people what to expect, but most of the ones with experience take the same approach as you, but probably for different reasons.
I think the game does a decent job at teaching players what to do, but most people claim to not have enough time to listen/read - they are in a hurry to get things done (in what is supposed to be a way to spend their down time - a pastime. Makes no sense to me, but that's a rant for another time).
If the game was designed to explain every single mechanic people would complain it wasn't necessary and/or not pay attention anyway.
If you - an experienced player - want to have a good experience in a dungeon, it's up to you to give guidance to the less experienced members. Even when doing Fungal Grotto 1, because you have to remember that we weren't born knowing how to clear it.
3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Probably because the top players aren't that good so it pushes the average down ! 2 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not enough incentive to improveMuch of content is casual for the casual majority of players. One does not need to struggle to have fun playing this game.
There is things to do for hardcore players, L337s and medicore masochists which require dedication, but game does not force people in pain and suffering unless they want it. Which is good.5 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Game doesn't adequately prepare you for the required taskshedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »As soon as I saw the post I knew who it was.
Maybe what you call "bad" is "average", and maybe it is okay that average players can't complete high tier content like you can? After all, would you want the average player to be able to complete vHoF HM?
Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
You answered your own question.
None of us was born knowing all. At some point we had to learn things - be it how to walk IRL, or what to do in a dungeon in ESO.
I've run with groups that don't respect mechanics (and yes, depending on what you're doing the group needs to follow mechanics even on normal). That specific group is supposed to cater to newer players, but they don't tell anyone what to expect or how to react. As you might suspect, the runs are a mess.
Those runs would probably go much smoother if the people who had already done those dungeons told people what to expect, but most of the ones with experience take the same approach as you, but probably for different reasons.
I think the game does a decent job at teaching players what to do, but most people claim to not have enough time to listen/read - they are in a hurry to get things done (in what is supposed to be a way to spend their down time - a pastime. Makes no sense to me, but that's a rant for another time).
If the game was designed to explain every single mechanic people would complain it wasn't necessary and/or not pay attention anyway.
If you - an experienced player - want to have a good experience in a dungeon, it's up to you to give guidance to the less experienced members. Even when doing Fungal Grotto 1, because you have to remember that we weren't born knowing how to clear it.
I agree and disagree. In dungeons where there is a need to explain mechanics I always do, but if the only thing you need to do is not stand in a red circle, Im sorry i dont believe that it requires an explanation....0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »As soon as I saw the post I knew who it was.
Maybe what you call "bad" is "average", and maybe it is okay that average players can't complete high tier content like you can? After all, would you want the average player to be able to complete vHoF HM?
What i want is to be able to enjoy simple vet dungeons when I run them. Why do i as a healer have to explain to players with 800 CP that standing in red circles is bad? Why do i as a healer in Fungal Grotto 1, probably the easiest dungeon in the game endup doing 80% of dps in a high CP group, whilst healing everyone? Thats what i want...I dont care if you cant pull 80k st on Yolna, i care that you are able to use your brain in group content that can be soloed....
Get a guild. I'm surprised you don't already have one, Nos
I have plenty...noone runs the dungeons, we have all gotten enough keys like years ago to last for all the DLCs...I have to random que lol
Can run with me, though I'm PCNA. I thought you were EU. If you are NA, message me on here and I'll toss you my @ name. If the dungeon can be soloed without sorc pets, I've done it so no need to worry about that. I give away gear I don't need free too
Ive finished undaunted on my magcro today so im done with pledges till the next class comes out, but its just sad that so little is done to elevate the average player
Ah, okay. Lemme know if you ever want to run one though!
Seems like at least your issue has been resolved!1
This discussion has been closed.