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People without Elsweyr are creating and playing with Necromancers

  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

    I mean, it really doesn't matter what the people who created necromancers without owning Elsweyr think. It's in the TOS to not "Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax; "

    ZOS is 100% within their legal rights to delete those characters

    No not really if you were making a new character and seen Necro unlocked doesn’t mean you knew it was a bug. You have to keep your in mind the vast majority of players don’t read the forums or read any updates so they may have guessed that they missed something.

    It’s not unreasonable for people that don’t read updates to guess that this was just a new feature. If ZoS just deletes there toon, suspend their account or outright ban the account they will hit tons of innocent players. That will end very badly. ZoS can refund crowns but not time. This is ultimately their fault and cracking down on the innocent will backfire hard.

    This is true cracking down on the innocent would be kind of harsh but at the same time not living up to a promise to the purchasers that this is a restricted area without purchase as well as a restricted class without purchase which this bug has just took out of context for the sale of the chapter an class by making it free free to play for the week okay we can understand that but lock it up after your event like they said you could lock up craft bags when he ESO expires why not lock up unpurchased necromancer's once the event expires
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    It’s not unreasonable for people that don’t read updates to guess that this was just a new feature. If ZoS just deletes there toon, suspend their account or outright ban the account they will hit tons of innocent players. That will end very badly. ZoS can refund crowns but not time. This is ultimately their fault and cracking down on the innocent will backfire hard.

    Exactly. it will backfire harder than losing small amounts of p****d players who are angry that some players got something for free. This can cause thousands of people leaving the game, if they are being punished, banned or whatever ZOS can do for creating a Necromancer. I did not knew that this was a bug, I thought it's in the ESO+ days. So, ban me now, and thousands of others, and the game will die in one or two years. Because THAT would be not only unreasonable, but also a knife in the back of the game and really bad publicity.

    But would you agree that it should be locked after your free ESO plus time Runs Out if you say no they should ban you for being an exploiter
  • DaveMoeDee
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    Hey this is ESO so we have to have some type of lawyers playing this game you know somebody who can get ahold of the Better Business Bureau and let THEM know the kind of *** businesses THIS company has I mean I want my *** money back if I could have just waited couple weeks couple months and got it for free for a *** exploit I wouldn't had to spend 70 *** dollars

    You think the BBB would take that complaint seriously? There is nothing that ZOS is doing in this incident that is being done in bad faith. Deleting the characters of people who created them in good faith would be far more reasonable grounds for a complaint than them taking the hit on freebies due to exploits.

    Where are you that you had to spend $70 to get access to Necro? It didn't cost $70 just to get necro in the US and I doubt it cost that in Canada. I have no idea about Mexico, but the BBB only covers NA afaik If you spent $70, it was for added stuff that people didn't get during the bug. The chapter cost $40, though there were plenty of discounts available on preorder.
  • Reistr_the_Unbroken
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Hey this is ESO so we have to have some type of lawyers playing this game you know somebody who can get ahold of the Better Business Bureau and let THEM know the kind of *** businesses THIS company has I mean I want my *** money back if I could have just waited couple weeks couple months and got it for free for a *** exploit I wouldn't had to spend 70 *** dollars

    You think the BBB would take that complaint seriously? There is nothing that ZOS is doing in this incident that is being done in bad faith. Deleting the characters of people who created them in good faith would be far more reasonable grounds for a complaint than them taking the hit on freebies due to exploits.

    Where are you that you had to spend $70 to get access to Necro? It didn't cost $70 just to get necro in the US and I doubt it cost that in Canada. I have no idea about Mexico, but the BBB only covers NA afaik If you spent $70, it was for added stuff that people didn't get during the bug. The chapter cost $40, though there were plenty of discounts available on preorder.

    Regardless of price, they still exploited, and no they should not be able to get off Scott free

  • Nordic__Knights
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    The problem with this is that allowing these players to continue playing their necros makes players who bought the expansion feel taken advantage of for paying when they could've gotten the necro for free.

    By this point, whatever players may have thought when they initially created the necro, it is obvious that it is a bug. Players who continue to play with their necros they shouldn't have are continuing to exploit the bug, which is very clearly against the TOS. If ZOS won't stand by their TOS, why should we? This undermines customer faith in ZOS and ESO.

    I'm not saying players who created necros without paying for the content should be banned, as that would be extreme. But as it is, by doing nothing to restrict their access to those characters, ZOS is conveying a message that the TOS doesn't actually matter and exploiting bugs is fine. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth for players, like myself, who aren't getting the same advantages as someone exploiting the game and breaking TOS.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Can you please pass this along to the relevant team? Thank you :smile:

    You hit it right on the head man you said it just what it is it has nothing to do with nothing except for fairness you don't continue to allow and support bugs accidental or not to keep the characters in use is to support the bug and why you're supporting that bug it will always be an exploit being used
    Edited by Nordic__Knights on August 14, 2019 1:17PM
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Hey this is ESO so we have to have some type of lawyers playing this game you know somebody who can get ahold of the Better Business Bureau and let THEM know the kind of *** businesses THIS company has I mean I want my *** money back if I could have just waited couple weeks couple months and got it for free for a *** exploit I wouldn't had to spend 70 *** dollars

    You think the BBB would take that complaint seriously? There is nothing that ZOS is doing in this incident that is being done in bad faith. Deleting the characters of people who created them in good faith would be far more reasonable grounds for a complaint than them taking the hit on freebies due to exploits.

    Where are you that you had to spend $70 to get access to Necro? It didn't cost $70 just to get necro in the US and I doubt it cost that in Canada. I have no idea about Mexico, but the BBB only covers NA afaik If you spent $70, it was for added stuff that people didn't get during the bug. The chapter cost $40, though there were plenty of discounts available on preorder.

    I got the full collector's edition with Morrowind combined pack and it's not really the money it's the principle I mean I could have just waiting exploited their game and got it for free instead of being a valid paying customer I guess 5 years of paying time to make up since it's okay to hit them up early and say why I didn't know about it and still have it for free
  • DaveMoeDee
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    The problem with this is that allowing these players to continue playing their necros makes players who bought the expansion feel taken advantage of for paying when they could've gotten the necro for free.

    By this point, whatever players may have thought when they initially created the necro, it is obvious that it is a bug. Players who continue to play with their necros they shouldn't have are continuing to exploit the bug, which is very clearly against the TOS. If ZOS won't stand by their TOS, why should we? This undermines customer faith in ZOS and ESO.

    I'm not saying players who created necros without paying for the content should be banned, as that would be extreme. But as it is, by doing nothing to restrict their access to those characters, ZOS is conveying a message that the TOS doesn't actually matter and exploiting bugs is fine. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth for players, like myself, who aren't getting the same advantages as someone exploiting the game and breaking TOS.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Can you please pass this along to the relevant team? Thank you :smile:

    You hit it right on the head man you said it just what it is it has nothing to do with nothing except for fairness you don't continue to allow and support bugs accidental or not to keep the characters in use is to support the bug and why you're supporting that bug it will always be an exploit being used

    Fairness argument won't work because no solution will be fair to everyone. Fairness arguments are so often based on only considering a single perspective and making that perspective the authority on what is fair.

    We can just as easily say that it is unfair of ZOS to delete all the progress a new player made on a necro character they created when they had no idea there was something off about that class being available. They can just as reasonable ask why they should be punished for ZOS's mistake.

    So let's get out of our own heads and apply some empathy to understanding the various perspectives.

    As far as "exploiting bugs" goes, the world isn't black and white and we aren't 5 year-olds when considering rules. When the game provides a class option, it is reasonable to think that clicking on it is okay. In fact, it is more reasonable to think it is okay than to think it isn't for people who are new to the game and didn't research minutiae of the game. ZOS needs to consider intent and both false positives and false negatives when reacting to situations like this. They also need to consider possible side effects.

    In the real world, solutions are regularly neither clean nor easy, and are almost never perfect.
  • Reistr_the_Unbroken
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    Also: no I don’t think some people who did get a free necro are completely innocent either. I knew from the pre order and before release that necro was going to be something to actually buy, and yes I would’ve raised suspicions had I seen that something that had been locked until you pay for it- for what, a month?- was suddenly free.

    And yes, it’s a perfectly legitimate reason for those of us who actually payed for the class to be upset when ZoS turned around and said ‘oh yeah the exploiters can keep their necros’ with zero consequences. That’s just reinforcing bad behavior.
  • Nordic__Knights
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Hey this is ESO so we have to have some type of lawyers playing this game you know somebody who can get ahold of the Better Business Bureau and let THEM know the kind of *** businesses THIS company has I mean I want my *** money back if I could have just waited couple weeks couple months and got it for free for a *** exploit I wouldn't had to spend 70 *** dollars

    You think the BBB would take that complaint seriously? There is nothing that ZOS is doing in this incident that is being done in bad faith. Deleting the characters of people who created them in good faith would be far more reasonable grounds for a complaint than them taking the hit on freebies due to exploits.

    Where are you that you had to spend $70 to get access to Necro? It didn't cost $70 just to get necro in the US and I doubt it cost that in Canada. I have no idea about Mexico, but the BBB only covers NA afaik If you spent $70, it was for added stuff that people didn't get during the bug. The chapter cost $40, though there were plenty of discounts available on preorder.

    And how do you see them allowing something that goes against their own terms of service based on if we find a bug or glitch or any of that we are not to use it we are to report it based on their own terms of service but yet people used it and now are taking advantage of an item for free that other customers have had to pay for and non-paying customers are restricted from using I think the Better Business Bureau will be all over it
    Following their terms of service would be good faith not following them is in bad faith to paying customers that they actually support and stand behind what they say within them to begin with
    Edited by Nordic__Knights on August 14, 2019 1:35PM
  • DaveMoeDee
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Hey this is ESO so we have to have some type of lawyers playing this game you know somebody who can get ahold of the Better Business Bureau and let THEM know the kind of *** businesses THIS company has I mean I want my *** money back if I could have just waited couple weeks couple months and got it for free for a *** exploit I wouldn't had to spend 70 *** dollars

    You think the BBB would take that complaint seriously? There is nothing that ZOS is doing in this incident that is being done in bad faith. Deleting the characters of people who created them in good faith would be far more reasonable grounds for a complaint than them taking the hit on freebies due to exploits.

    Where are you that you had to spend $70 to get access to Necro? It didn't cost $70 just to get necro in the US and I doubt it cost that in Canada. I have no idea about Mexico, but the BBB only covers NA afaik If you spent $70, it was for added stuff that people didn't get during the bug. The chapter cost $40, though there were plenty of discounts available on preorder.

    And how do you see them allowing something that goes against their own terms of service based on if we find a bug or glitch or any of that we are not to use it we are to report it based on their own terms of service but yet people used it and now are taking advantage of an item for free that other customers have had to pay for and non-paying customers are restricted from using I think the Better Business Bureau will be all over it
    Following their terms of service would be good faith not following them is in bad faith to paying customers that they actually support and stand behind what they say within them to begin with

    With every TOS ever, things are listed so that the company CAN take action if suitable. It does not require them to take any particular action on any thing. There is absolutely nothing in the TOS that say that ZOS is required to take any particular action for people who did something that was not supposed to be possible but was made possible through a bug. The TOS gives them the right to take action against violations.

    You seem to want you preferred solution to be required, but it isn't. It is a judgement call. You don't like the judgement call, and it is your right to not like it. But let's not pretend that your preference isn't just a subjective preference. And let's not lose sight of the fact that your only criteria for judging seems to be how it impacts you personally.

    Good luck with your complaint to the BBB. Even your spin in your sentence about the BBB is unconvincing, despite all the framing you attempt. What you are talking about will likely seem incredibly trivial and petty to them.

    You seem to spend zero effort understanding the different experiences and knowledge of players. Why are you talking about reporting bugs when I keep mentioning people who have no idea there was a bug? Most people aren't like you. They don't buy a game knowing all the details of every feature in the game.
  • DaveMoeDee
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    itscompton wrote: »
    Nice how quickly they can push a fix for something when it's directly costing them money, meanwhile my Templar is running on foot from Chalman to Bloodmayne because I got in a fight 15 minutes ago and I'm still stuck in combat.

    They can fix something quickly when it is easy to fix.
  • kmcaj
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    PC always gets the best stuff. Constant twitch drops, free necromancer. Let console get free necro with gamebreaker patch too.
    Edited by kmcaj on August 14, 2019 4:35PM
  • max_only
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    kmcaj wrote: »
    PC always gets the best stuff. Constant twitch drops, free necromancer. Let console get free necro with gamebreaker patch too.

    We’re testing it for you. The game is still in alpha.
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 975 || PC/NA ||
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • Sergg007
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    itscompton wrote: »
    Nice how quickly they can push a fix for something when it's directly costing them money

    TOP COMMENT!
  • unclesheosnephew
    There was a eso+ free trial event so there could be some that thought it was a part of the free trial.
  • JumpmanLane
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Hey this is ESO so we have to have some type of lawyers playing this game you know somebody who can get ahold of the Better Business Bureau and let THEM know the kind of *** businesses THIS company has I mean I want my *** money back if I could have just waited couple weeks couple months and got it for free for a *** exploit I wouldn't had to spend 70 *** dollars

    You think the BBB would take that complaint seriously? There is nothing that ZOS is doing in this incident that is being done in bad faith. Deleting the characters of people who created them in good faith would be far more reasonable grounds for a complaint than them taking the hit on freebies due to exploits.

    Where are you that you had to spend $70 to get access to Necro? It didn't cost $70 just to get necro in the US and I doubt it cost that in Canada. I have no idea about Mexico, but the BBB only covers NA afaik If you spent $70, it was for added stuff that people didn't get during the bug. The chapter cost $40, though there were plenty of discounts available on preorder.

    Regardless of price, they still exploited, and no they should not be able to get off Scott free

    I’ve never understood how ZOS DEIGNED to punish anyone for bugs the leave unfixed in the game for however it remains in the game.

    Punish the coders. Punish the tech team assigned to bug fixes. Punish the in house testers who missed the bugs. Hold your team to a higher standard.

    Yet, to punish someone doing something the game allows them to do?...when you won’t fix bugs for years on end...smacks of mediocrity to me.
    Witch up, lil' witches!
  • valeriiya
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Hey this is ESO so we have to have some type of lawyers playing this game you know somebody who can get ahold of the Better Business Bureau and let THEM know the kind of *** businesses THIS company has I mean I want my *** money back if I could have just waited couple weeks couple months and got it for free for a *** exploit I wouldn't had to spend 70 *** dollars

    You think the BBB would take that complaint seriously? There is nothing that ZOS is doing in this incident that is being done in bad faith. Deleting the characters of people who created them in good faith would be far more reasonable grounds for a complaint than them taking the hit on freebies due to exploits.

    Where are you that you had to spend $70 to get access to Necro? It didn't cost $70 just to get necro in the US and I doubt it cost that in Canada. I have no idea about Mexico, but the BBB only covers NA afaik If you spent $70, it was for added stuff that people didn't get during the bug. The chapter cost $40, though there were plenty of discounts available on preorder.

    @DaveMoeDee they took it seriously when I contacted them and I got my Plus subscription refunded
    PS4 NA
  • yRaven
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    ZoS said they will not ban or punish anyone... so what rest in this post is just crying? Okay i will take my popcorn
    Edited by yRaven on August 14, 2019 10:03PM
    Why have many Builds if one is enough... maybe two?
    Raven Elenwen - MagPlar (EP) | Altmer - PVE/PVP
    Merchant Queenn - StamBlade (DC) | Khajiit - Farm
  • Eraldus
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    Damn, missed the chance to try the Necro, lol.

    Good decision on ZOS on this one... Also I'm loving the salt of the players that paid for the Necro! Keep it up, please!
  • lordrichter
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    itscompton wrote: »
    Nice how quickly they can push a fix for something when it's directly costing them money, meanwhile my Templar is running on foot from Chalman to Bloodmayne because I got in a fight 15 minutes ago and I'm still stuck in combat.

    They can fix something quickly when it is easy to fix.

    Why are glitches that help us 99% of the easy fixes while the ones that annoy us take forever?

    Well, for example only, enabling the Necromancer class for everyone might be a configuration "checkbox" on the server. They can fix it just by going into the server and "turning it off".

    On the other hand, stuck in combat is probably not a "keep player in combat until tomorrow" checkbox, so it takes a little longer to fix.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • LurgidBean
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    yRaven wrote: »
    It's fixed now people, stop the whining

    Do you feel bad because you had to pay for something and some people got it for free? Cry me a river pls

    Well float me out of Craglorn because, yes.
    It does feel bad..because we paid money for something someone else got for free; so soon after paying, which is not precedent.
    That doesn't make us bad or selfish people. It just feels bad, man. I don't want to take away from anyone, but it would feel better if we were compensated in some minor way. Even if just to acknowledge "Oops! Our bad." Here, have X Crowns or X gold, or even a few Twitch-style basic crown crates like dropped in our accounts today.
    Not everyone will be happy, but at least there is some acknowledgement that some of the most engaged players might feel a little miffed, and something is done as a sort of "peace offering".
    Xbox NA/EU
    "Once I misplaced an entire roast chicken, so this doesn't surprise me."
  • Heyodude
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    Azorean wrote: »
    Didn't see any news about Necromancers becoming free and I think is weird.
    People on guild chat are reporting being able to create and play with Necromancers but can't go to Elsweyr.

    And I had a guild member trying in a second account without Elsweyr and succeeded. Is it a bug or a feature?

    snitch.
  • tahol10069
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    After hearing about this bug I tried to create a Necro for lulz. I did manage to create one, but when I tried to finish the creator the game didn't allow it, and I just got an error message saying "invaling character class" or something like that.

    I bet very few got as far as playing with their Necros. People like to exaggerate things for extra drama.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
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    it's not really the money it's the principle I mean I could have just waiting exploited their game and got it for free instead of being a valid paying customer I guess 5 years of paying time to make up since it's okay to hit them up early and say why I didn't know about it and still have it for free

    Well, you could have waited a year and got the chapter "for free" with your ESO+ and associated crowns. Yet you didn't wait a year.
    Besides, the people who created a necromancer "for free" in that short window that lasted a couple of hours at most didn't know about it either. It's not like they've planned their coup long ago and decided not to purchase Elsweyr based on that glitch. They were lucky, that's all.

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