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So Vigor will stay OP as hell?

  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    Sure hope it stays this way!
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    p00tx wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    But you still have to slot a resto staff, and it hits one target. Vigor hits all targets in the area and requires no specific weapon or class. There is no mag equivalent.

    Yes and magika got class skill about heal/shield unlike stamina alredy said this more than one time.
    Also the vigor people complain about is single target so idk what are you talking about.
    The aoe vigor is going to get some change too.

    Stamina is forced on the 2h aswell so?how is so different?spare me the crap about how resto staff is weak which is BS.

    Right
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Forced to run Restro? Show me the class that lacks magic based class heals.
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  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Itzmichi , if you checked combat log and you see ticks from more than two (external) vigors, it's a (PTS-introduced) bug. And if so, it should get fixed, that's about it.

    SodanTok , vigor can't stack indefinitely because it's a target-applied effect. Ground HoTs do stack, but target-applied HoTs don't, same as, for instance, Mutagen - if two healers cast it, only one copy will be running on target, but different morphs would stack, so if another healer runs Rapid Regen, it will stack with Mutagen.

    @John_Falstaff Then explain why I have great amount of logs from various trials where one person is getting healed by 2 or even more resolving vigors even at same second. I am listening.

    igy8yfd98cwe.png

    You sure people aren't spamming it? Because if everyone around spams it, yes, you will get multiple initial ticks that will appear the moment effect refreshes.

    upib6alx0831.png

    Same log, this time casts in that same time span. While yes one person is here 3 times you can see my previous log happened after his 2nd cast and before 3rd

    Then raise the cost not nerf the skill.

    I dont believe the skill is OP in slightest, one has to play magicka religiously and avoid trying medium stam build in PVP like a plague to honestly believe that.

    But I believe it stacks.

    Well, if it doesn’t stack it’s okay. If it does stack echoing vigor would be comparable with mag abilities if it ticked only once. Given the cost and no need to target team mates, it’d still be relatively OP.

    One tick of echoing vigor on PTS heals for as much as combat Prayer if you spec for healing, they’re both 6k non-crit.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 1, 2019 9:09PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • ku5h
    ku5h
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Forced to run Restro? Show me the class that lacks magic based class heals.

    On a nonpet MagSorc you are forced into resto staff. Yes, you do have class based skills, but they won't save you and you're purposefully gimping your survivability by not using it.
    I would love to backbar that ice staff, or SnB, or even 2H for that momentum, but just can't.

    PC-EU 1000+ cp
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
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    ***5h wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Forced to run Restro? Show me the class that lacks magic based class heals.

    On a nonpet MagSorc you are forced into resto staff. Yes, you do have class based skills, but they won't save you and you're purposefully gimping your survivability by not using it.
    I would love to backbar that ice staff, or SnB, or even 2H for that momentum, but just can't.

    or magblade
    PC EU, all classes
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    As mentioned in this past week's PTS notes, we do feel Vigor's HoT enables too much healing. We're planning to have some adjustments in next week's PTS patch.

    Nice! Please don’t overnerf it, people have a point that stam gets access to less heals then mag. Main issue I see is stacking... if it does stack.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    As mentioned in this past week's PTS notes, we do feel Vigor's HoT enables too much healing. We're planning to have some adjustments in next week's PTS patch.

    Nice! Please don’t overnerf it, people have a point that stam gets access to less heals then mag. Main issue I see is stacking... if it does stack.

    Agrree, here should be very precise adjustment
    PC EU, all classes
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    As mentioned in this past week's PTS notes, we do feel Vigor's HoT enables too much healing. We're planning to have some adjustments in next week's PTS patch.

    So based on previous examples it will now heal for less than on Live and probably not worth slotting?
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    As mentioned in this past week's PTS notes, we do feel Vigor's HoT enables too much healing. We're planning to have some adjustments in next week's PTS patch.

    Really? Then give me back my rally healing then. I only have two good heals and one is gone. I WANT A SHIELD.
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    As mentioned in this past week's PTS notes, we do feel Vigor's HoT enables too much healing. We're planning to have some adjustments in next week's PTS patch.

    Really? Then give me back my rally healing then. I only have two good heals and one is gone. I WANT A SHIELD.

    Also were is the rapid regen nerf.
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • sentientomega
    sentientomega
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    Really? Then give me back my rally healing then. I only have two good heals and one is gone. I WANT A SHIELD.

    Hear hear!

    Without a doubt, we do need more stamina healing available to all classes and all the stamina weapon skill lines, and major brutality ought to be available from any of the stamina weapon ones.

    Given how they've pretty much destroyed Momentum and its morphs, and without explanation, too, we really do need properly-functioning universal stamina healing *outside* of a PvP-gated ability.

    1h/s just might be a good place to have this happen, for a start.

    Failing that, swap Rapid Manoeuvre and Vigour around.
    Edited by sentientomega on August 1, 2019 10:51PM
  • Barbaran
    Barbaran
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    Idinuse wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    But you still have bloody Vigor with any weapon you choose. Magicka doesn't. Mags still have to equip a Resto Staff with 0 offensive skills for that bloody heal. Don't be dense.

    Umm, many stam builds run bow back bar strictly for 4 secs of major expedition after a roll. A few stam builds I have don't have any bow skills, just the passive.
    I play lots of mag and stam toons, and your argument of "stam players can do whatever they want and I now have to use a resto" has no merit.
    Rapid Regen and the HoT that comes with healing ward now, 30% extra resources on a heavy attack.
    And you have the age old debate of damage shields.... Mag toons don't have alot to complain about really.
    On any mag toons I feel like I survive way easier with a shield then I do on any stam toon, and now the mag heals are getting buffed on top of that? I for one am excited to play more mag next patch
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Barbaran wrote: »
    Idinuse wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    But you still have bloody Vigor with any weapon you choose. Magicka doesn't. Mags still have to equip a Resto Staff with 0 offensive skills for that bloody heal. Don't be dense.

    Umm, many stam builds run bow back bar strictly for 4 secs of major expedition after a roll. A few stam builds I have don't have any bow skills, just the passive.
    I play lots of mag and stam toons, and your argument of "stam players can do whatever they want and I now have to use a resto" has no merit.
    Rapid Regen and the HoT that comes with healing ward now, 30% extra resources on a heavy attack.
    And you have the age old debate of damage shields.... Mag toons don't have alot to complain about really.
    On any mag toons I feel like I survive way easier with a shield then I do on any stam toon, and now the mag heals are getting buffed on top of that? I for one am excited to play more mag next patch

    Idc. Put it on a dam weapon line. Tf kinda excuse is that to nerf one of the only stam heals? Also, Ms. BRUNO. Said that vigor in general will be looked at IE nerfed and I'd imagine with no compensation.
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • Rikumaru
    Rikumaru
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    If resolving vigor gets nerfed, rapid regen should be nerfed equally so. Also most stamina classes have no other reliable heals.
    Edited by Rikumaru on August 2, 2019 2:39AM
    Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Rikumaru wrote: »
    If resolving vigor gets nerfed, rapid regen should be nerfed equally so. Also most stamina classes have no other reliable heals.

    Agreed. My thread is gone on for defending vigor and advocating the standardization of other skills.
    Edited by Wolf_Watching on August 2, 2019 2:56AM
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    ✭✭
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.
  • Rikumaru
    Rikumaru
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.
    Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    ✭✭
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.

    You can't target it. You can hope it goes where you want it to. Even with six folks, I'd rather have everyone manage their own reliable self-heal than pray for it to work properly. Especially since with a small group, that bad luck proves fatal way faster than in a zerg.
  • Rikumaru
    Rikumaru
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.

    You can't target it. You can hope it goes where you want it to. Even with six folks, I'd rather have everyone manage their own reliable self-heal than pray for it to work properly. Especially since with a small group, that bad luck proves fatal way faster than in a zerg.

    It does not matter if you target it, if you are solo it WILL hit you. And in small groups (which I consider 2-4 people) you can reliably use it on yourself or others since you know everyone's HP. Not only that but as a magicka build you would have more than just one self heal.

    I'm guessing it uses smart casting which means the heal goes to the lowest HP player which would be fantastic to use in a small group. Let's say I'm duoing with a stamina player, I can rapid regen them alongside their vigor ticking. That's basically a double vigor worth of healing on them.

    It's pretty crazy that people are going nuts about vigor but sleep on rapid regen, makes me think most of those players just run around in a zerg and thus complain about how rapid regen will never target themselves.
    Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.

    You can't target it. You can hope it goes where you want it to. Even with six folks, I'd rather have everyone manage their own reliable self-heal than pray for it to work properly. Especially since with a small group, that bad luck proves fatal way faster than in a zerg.

    It's pretty crazy that people are going nuts about vigor but sleep on rapid regen, makes me think most of those players just run around in a zerg and thus complain about how rapid regen will never target themselves.

    Most players are in Zerg denial. If you’re grouped with 5 others but fighting at a hotspot there could be 50+ of your faction there.

    Even in a BG I’ve had issues with ward ally. It being an issue depends on its functionality and can’t be tested solo, so of course people will be concerned.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    Barbaran wrote: »
    Idinuse wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    But you still have bloody Vigor with any weapon you choose. Magicka doesn't. Mags still have to equip a Resto Staff with 0 offensive skills for that bloody heal. Don't be dense.

    Umm, many stam builds run bow back bar strictly for 4 secs of major expedition after a roll. A few stam builds I have don't have any bow skills, just the passive.
    I play lots of mag and stam toons, and your argument of "stam players can do whatever they want and I now have to use a resto" has no merit.
    Rapid Regen and the HoT that comes with healing ward now, 30% extra resources on a heavy attack.
    And you have the age old debate of damage shields.... Mag toons don't have alot to complain about really.
    On any mag toons I feel like I survive way easier with a shield then I do on any stam toon, and now the mag heals are getting buffed on top of that? I for one am excited to play more mag next patch

    Also, Ms. BRUNO. Said that vigor in general will be looked at IE nerfed and I'd imagine with no compensation.

    Source? Patch notes and this thread say echoing.
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Besides, stam does have a shield - bone shield.

    When it scales off stamina up to 40/50 (or if the changes to hardened/dampen stick 60)% of my health you'll have an argument here.
    "Should I do it? No. Will I do it? Of ***ing course I will."
    "Offense is taken, not given."
    Koht of Kevira: "Imperial" Sorcerer
    Hailie the Returned: "Bosmer" Necromancer
    Glacius Cromeum: Imperial Templar
    Nivek the Shadow: "Imperial" Nightblade
    Syldraaendril Nightwood: Bosmer Warden
    Hailie Silverthorn: "Bosmer" Dragonknight
    Hailie Silverthorn: "Bosmer" Templar
    Hailie Silverthorn: "Bosmer" Nightblade
    Titus Morric Silverthorn: Imperial Dragonknight
    Kartendor: Altmer Sorcerer
    Sephy-Lemme-Smash: Argonian Warden
    Aeris Silverthorn: Breton Templar
    Araenandriah Lyrovehkem: Bosmer Nightblade
    Danron Lyrovehkem: Imperial Sorcerer
    Kevin Silverthorn: "Bosmer" Templar
    Vehk Silverthorn: "Imperial" Necromancer Tank in training
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Barbaran wrote: »
    Idinuse wrote: »
    ***5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    But you still have bloody Vigor with any weapon you choose. Magicka doesn't. Mags still have to equip a Resto Staff with 0 offensive skills for that bloody heal. Don't be dense.

    Umm, many stam builds run bow back bar strictly for 4 secs of major expedition after a roll. A few stam builds I have don't have any bow skills, just the passive.
    I play lots of mag and stam toons, and your argument of "stam players can do whatever they want and I now have to use a resto" has no merit.
    Rapid Regen and the HoT that comes with healing ward now, 30% extra resources on a heavy attack.
    And you have the age old debate of damage shields.... Mag toons don't have alot to complain about really.
    On any mag toons I feel like I survive way easier with a shield then I do on any stam toon, and now the mag heals are getting buffed on top of that? I for one am excited to play more mag next patch

    Also, Ms. BRUNO. Said that vigor in general will be looked at IE nerfed and I'd imagine with no compensation.

    Source? Patch notes and this thread say echoing.
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Besides, stam does have a shield - bone shield.

    When it scales off stamina up to 40/50 (or if the changes to hardened/dampen stick 60)% of my health you'll have an argument here.
    As mentioned in this past week's PTS notes, we do feel Vigor's HoT enables too much healing. We're planning to have some adjustments in next week's PTS patch.

    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    ^^^find the word echoing for me^^^
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Itzmichi , if you checked combat log and you see ticks from more than two (external) vigors, it's a (PTS-introduced) bug. And if so, it should get fixed, that's about it.

    SodanTok , vigor can't stack indefinitely because it's a target-applied effect. Ground HoTs do stack, but target-applied HoTs don't, same as, for instance, Mutagen - if two healers cast it, only one copy will be running on target, but different morphs would stack, so if another healer runs Rapid Regen, it will stack with Mutagen.

    @John_Falstaff Then explain why I have great amount of logs from various trials where one person is getting healed by 2 or even more resolving vigors even at same second. I am listening.

    igy8yfd98cwe.png

    You sure people aren't spamming it? Because if everyone around spams it, yes, you will get multiple initial ticks that will appear the moment effect refreshes.

    upib6alx0831.png

    Same log, this time casts in that same time span. While yes one person is here 3 times you can see my previous log happened after his 2nd cast and before 3rd

    Then raise the cost not nerf the skill.

    I dont believe the skill is OP in slightest, one has to play magicka religiously and avoid trying medium stam build in PVP like a plague to honestly believe that.

    But I believe it stacks.

    Well, if it doesn’t stack it’s okay. If it does stack echoing vigor would be comparable with mag abilities if it ticked only once. Given the cost and no need to target team mates, it’d still be relatively OP.

    One tick of echoing vigor on PTS heals for as much as combat Prayer if you spec for healing, they’re both 6k non-crit.

    Well echoing is the support/group stack morph even if they nerf it unreasonably its not as big deal as if they did it to resolving. Bad resolving vigor would literally kill several possible medium armor playstyles in PVP. It may not even be strong enough to cover the undodgable DoT damage we get this patch
    PC | EU | AD
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    ^^^find the word echoing for me^^^

    I was wrong about her post here, but the quote she's referencing was;
    Vigor's rework to be a single target Heal over Time hasn't hit the mark we wanted, and currently enables too much healing with the Echoing Vigor morph. We'll be taking a close look at the core identity of the skill and potentially making adjustments.

    Which I take to read echoing HoT nerf (which is silly but if it's going to infinite stack as has been shown in this thread, w/e) and probably a cost or function change for base. Ymmv.
    "Should I do it? No. Will I do it? Of ***ing course I will."
    "Offense is taken, not given."
    Koht of Kevira: "Imperial" Sorcerer
    Hailie the Returned: "Bosmer" Necromancer
    Glacius Cromeum: Imperial Templar
    Nivek the Shadow: "Imperial" Nightblade
    Syldraaendril Nightwood: Bosmer Warden
    Hailie Silverthorn: "Bosmer" Dragonknight
    Hailie Silverthorn: "Bosmer" Templar
    Hailie Silverthorn: "Bosmer" Nightblade
    Titus Morric Silverthorn: Imperial Dragonknight
    Kartendor: Altmer Sorcerer
    Sephy-Lemme-Smash: Argonian Warden
    Aeris Silverthorn: Breton Templar
    Araenandriah Lyrovehkem: Bosmer Nightblade
    Danron Lyrovehkem: Imperial Sorcerer
    Kevin Silverthorn: "Bosmer" Templar
    Vehk Silverthorn: "Imperial" Necromancer Tank in training
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