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So Vigor will stay OP as hell?

  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ku5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.

    You can't target it. You can hope it goes where you want it to. Even with six folks, I'd rather have everyone manage their own reliable self-heal than pray for it to work properly. Especially since with a small group, that bad luck proves fatal way faster than in a zerg.

    It does not matter if you target it, if you are solo it WILL hit you. And in small groups (which I consider 2-4 people) you can reliably use it on yourself or others since you know everyone's HP. Not only that but as a magicka build you would have more than just one self heal.

    I'm guessing it uses smart casting which means the heal goes to the lowest HP player which would be fantastic to use in a small group. Let's say I'm duoing with a stamina player, I can rapid regen them alongside their vigor ticking. That's basically a double vigor worth of healing on them.

    It's pretty crazy that people are going nuts about vigor but sleep on rapid regen, makes me think most of those players just run around in a zerg and thus complain about how rapid regen will never target themselves.

    Then solo a keep if you're that confident in Rapid Regen. Jesus, you don't even need that skill to 1vX the couple potatoes you drag around a rock.
    The real fights always take place in areas with multiple strong groups around. And it's not fantastic to have a HoT, which you should pre-apply, hit a low-health player instead of the caster. That player needs a burst heal and even Mutagen is something you wanna pre-apply. And to watch an ally's health bar with a burst heal ready, that's the healer's job in a good small group.
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    As mentioned in this past week's PTS notes, we do feel Vigor's HoT enables too much healing. We're planning to have some adjustments in next week's PTS patch.

    The problem isn’t vigor it’s major mending. All of the nerf vigor threads showing tooltips that I have seen are from people creating stam dks because they know they can cheese the tooltip. The whiners win again.
  • Idinuse
    Idinuse
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    Rikumaru wrote: »
    If resolving vigor gets nerfed, rapid regen should be nerfed equally so. Also most stamina classes have no other reliable heals.

    Agreed. My thread is gone on for defending vigor and advocating the standardization of other skills.

    Standardization huh? That would be placing Vigor on the Bow Skill Tree i.e. forcing you to use a particular Weapon Line, preferably ranged here, just for that particular heal.

    Or give us a Migicka Vigor, "Vigorium" (I like it), same stats 500 more mag cost max from the Alliance Support Skill Line.

    [I was first thinking the Psijic, but that line is pay for...]
    Edited by Idinuse on August 2, 2019 1:11PM
    Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?
  • No_Division
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    so if vigor gets adjusted, then rapid regen/dots need to be as well lol.
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    so if vigor gets adjusted, then rapid regen/dots need to be as well lol.

    That’s not how this works. Noobs whine without even knowing the full outcome with large changes all around and then vigor will be nerf, dots will stay strong, medium will be *** for another year.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Itzmichi , if you checked combat log and you see ticks from more than two (external) vigors, it's a (PTS-introduced) bug. And if so, it should get fixed, that's about it.

    SodanTok , vigor can't stack indefinitely because it's a target-applied effect. Ground HoTs do stack, but target-applied HoTs don't, same as, for instance, Mutagen - if two healers cast it, only one copy will be running on target, but different morphs would stack, so if another healer runs Rapid Regen, it will stack with Mutagen.

    @John_Falstaff Then explain why I have great amount of logs from various trials where one person is getting healed by 2 or even more resolving vigors even at same second. I am listening.

    igy8yfd98cwe.png

    You sure people aren't spamming it? Because if everyone around spams it, yes, you will get multiple initial ticks that will appear the moment effect refreshes.

    upib6alx0831.png

    Same log, this time casts in that same time span. While yes one person is here 3 times you can see my previous log happened after his 2nd cast and before 3rd

    Then raise the cost not nerf the skill.

    I dont believe the skill is OP in slightest, one has to play magicka religiously and avoid trying medium stam build in PVP like a plague to honestly believe that.

    But I believe it stacks.

    Well, if it doesn’t stack it’s okay. If it does stack echoing vigor would be comparable with mag abilities if it ticked only once. Given the cost and no need to target team mates, it’d still be relatively OP.

    One tick of echoing vigor on PTS heals for as much as combat Prayer if you spec for healing, they’re both 6k non-crit.

    Well echoing is the support/group stack morph even if they nerf it unreasonably its not as big deal as if they did it to resolving. Bad resolving vigor would literally kill several possible medium armor playstyles in PVP. It may not even be strong enough to cover the undodgable DoT damage we get this patch

    A too nerfed resolving vigor yea, if it becomes basicly worthless it will nerf builds. However, the current PTS strength of resolving vigor is indefensible, of course they’re going to change it.

    Like I said, each tick of resolving vigor if you spec for it heals for as much as a similar ability - Combat Prayer - that costs more magicka. Sure Combat Prayer does other things like minor berserk, but it’s also a frontal ability vs resolving vigor which is an aoe hot.
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Barbaran wrote: »
    Idinuse wrote: »
    ku5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    But you still have bloody Vigor with any weapon you choose. Magicka doesn't. Mags still have to equip a Resto Staff with 0 offensive skills for that bloody heal. Don't be dense.

    Umm, many stam builds run bow back bar strictly for 4 secs of major expedition after a roll. A few stam builds I have don't have any bow skills, just the passive.
    I play lots of mag and stam toons, and your argument of "stam players can do whatever they want and I now have to use a resto" has no merit.
    Rapid Regen and the HoT that comes with healing ward now, 30% extra resources on a heavy attack.
    And you have the age old debate of damage shields.... Mag toons don't have alot to complain about really.
    On any mag toons I feel like I survive way easier with a shield then I do on any stam toon, and now the mag heals are getting buffed on top of that? I for one am excited to play more mag next patch

    Also, Ms. BRUNO. Said that vigor in general will be looked at IE nerfed and I'd imagine with no compensation.

    Source? Patch notes and this thread say echoing.
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Besides, stam does have a shield - bone shield.

    When it scales off stamina up to 40/50 (or if the changes to hardened/dampen stick 60)% of my health you'll have an argument here.

    I play no-CP and have never reached the health cap on harness magicka or ward ally.

    There’s nothing wrong with bone shield, it’s a 30% health capped shield for stam. Stamina builds are just used to not needing a shield because vigor and class heals are so strong. In pvp a 30% cap shield is 4K or so, so equivalent to most mag shields. Plus bone shield provides a synergy for group shields as well.

    There’s a difference between not needing something and an ability being garbage.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 2, 2019 6:25PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ku5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.

    You can't target it. You can hope it goes where you want it to. Even with six folks, I'd rather have everyone manage their own reliable self-heal than pray for it to work properly. Especially since with a small group, that bad luck proves fatal way faster than in a zerg.

    It does not matter if you target it, if you are solo it WILL hit you. And in small groups (which I consider 2-4 people) you can reliably use it on yourself or others since you know everyone's HP. Not only that but as a magicka build you would have more than just one self heal.

    I'm guessing it uses smart casting which means the heal goes to the lowest HP player which would be fantastic to use in a small group. Let's say I'm duoing with a stamina player, I can rapid regen them alongside their vigor ticking. That's basically a double vigor worth of healing on them.

    It's pretty crazy that people are going nuts about vigor but sleep on rapid regen, makes me think most of those players just run around in a zerg and thus complain about how rapid regen will never target themselves.

    Then solo a keep if you're that confident in Rapid Regen. Jesus, you don't even need that skill to 1vX the couple potatoes you drag around a rock.
    The real fights always take place in areas with multiple strong groups around. And it's not fantastic to have a HoT, which you should pre-apply, hit a low-health player instead of the caster. That player needs a burst heal and even Mutagen is something you wanna pre-apply. And to watch an ally's health bar with a burst heal ready, that's the healer's job in a good small group.

    Solo a keep in no cp if you're that confident in echoing vigor.
    For All Those Who Don’t Understand What Real Balancing is, or What The Word Buff Means in Video Games:
    Please just stop (with the nerfomancing). We are all sick of people like you, no offense. Just play the game w/o gear or armor. You are going to die and scream anyway.

    Otherwise I don’t mind helping you fix your build for either PvE or PvP. Just hit me up w/ a PM.
  • likecats
    likecats
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    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ku5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.

    As a magicka player, I wouldn't mind if ZOS switched around the effects of rapid regen and vigor.
    Stamina deserves this buff. Good luck randomly dying in BGs when an ulti-dump happens and all your heals go to the noob who was bound to die either way.

    I would bet good money that stam players would whine louder if this switch does happen, and understandably so.
    Edited by likecats on August 3, 2019 6:18AM
  • Rikumaru
    Rikumaru
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Itzmichi , if you checked combat log and you see ticks from more than two (external) vigors, it's a (PTS-introduced) bug. And if so, it should get fixed, that's about it.

    SodanTok , vigor can't stack indefinitely because it's a target-applied effect. Ground HoTs do stack, but target-applied HoTs don't, same as, for instance, Mutagen - if two healers cast it, only one copy will be running on target, but different morphs would stack, so if another healer runs Rapid Regen, it will stack with Mutagen.

    @John_Falstaff Then explain why I have great amount of logs from various trials where one person is getting healed by 2 or even more resolving vigors even at same second. I am listening.

    igy8yfd98cwe.png

    You sure people aren't spamming it? Because if everyone around spams it, yes, you will get multiple initial ticks that will appear the moment effect refreshes.

    upib6alx0831.png

    Same log, this time casts in that same time span. While yes one person is here 3 times you can see my previous log happened after his 2nd cast and before 3rd

    Then raise the cost not nerf the skill.

    I dont believe the skill is OP in slightest, one has to play magicka religiously and avoid trying medium stam build in PVP like a plague to honestly believe that.

    But I believe it stacks.

    Well, if it doesn’t stack it’s okay. If it does stack echoing vigor would be comparable with mag abilities if it ticked only once. Given the cost and no need to target team mates, it’d still be relatively OP.

    One tick of echoing vigor on PTS heals for as much as combat Prayer if you spec for healing, they’re both 6k non-crit.

    Well echoing is the support/group stack morph even if they nerf it unreasonably its not as big deal as if they did it to resolving. Bad resolving vigor would literally kill several possible medium armor playstyles in PVP. It may not even be strong enough to cover the undodgable DoT damage we get this patch

    A too nerfed resolving vigor yea, if it becomes basicly worthless it will nerf builds. However, the current PTS strength of resolving vigor is indefensible, of course they’re going to change it.

    Like I said, each tick of resolving vigor if you spec for it heals for as much as a similar ability - Combat Prayer - that costs more magicka. Sure Combat Prayer does other things like minor berserk, but it’s also a frontal ability vs resolving vigor which is an aoe hot.
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Barbaran wrote: »
    Idinuse wrote: »
    ku5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    But you still have bloody Vigor with any weapon you choose. Magicka doesn't. Mags still have to equip a Resto Staff with 0 offensive skills for that bloody heal. Don't be dense.

    Umm, many stam builds run bow back bar strictly for 4 secs of major expedition after a roll. A few stam builds I have don't have any bow skills, just the passive.
    I play lots of mag and stam toons, and your argument of "stam players can do whatever they want and I now have to use a resto" has no merit.
    Rapid Regen and the HoT that comes with healing ward now, 30% extra resources on a heavy attack.
    And you have the age old debate of damage shields.... Mag toons don't have alot to complain about really.
    On any mag toons I feel like I survive way easier with a shield then I do on any stam toon, and now the mag heals are getting buffed on top of that? I for one am excited to play more mag next patch

    Also, Ms. BRUNO. Said that vigor in general will be looked at IE nerfed and I'd imagine with no compensation.

    Source? Patch notes and this thread say echoing.
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Besides, stam does have a shield - bone shield.

    When it scales off stamina up to 40/50 (or if the changes to hardened/dampen stick 60)% of my health you'll have an argument here.

    I play no-CP and have never reached the health cap on harness magicka or ward ally.

    There’s nothing wrong with bone shield, it’s a 30% health capped shield for stam. Stamina builds are just used to not needing a shield because vigor and class heals are so strong. In pvp a 30% cap shield is 4K or so, so equivalent to most mag shields. Plus bone shield provides a synergy for group shields as well.

    There’s a difference between not needing something and an ability being garbage.

    Bone shield is a garbage shield. I have no idea where you are getting 4k shield values for magicka, that's insanely low and useless. There's a reason why bone shield was changed from a stamina scaling shield to hp scaling back when ZOS tried changing it and there's also a reason why almost no stamina (or magicka) builds run bone shield.

    The reason why stamina doesn't have any good shields isn't because it's healing is better (hint, it's not, especially next patch) but because stamina can roll dodge a ton more, block more (unless ice staff) and generally has higher resistances.
    Edited by Rikumaru on August 3, 2019 10:35AM
    Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.
  • killingspreeb16_ESO
    killingspreeb16_ESO
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    likecats wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ku5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.

    As a magicka player, I wouldn't mind if ZOS switched around the effects of rapid regen and vigor.
    Stamina deserves this buff. Good luck randomly dying in BGs when an ulti-dump happens and all your heals go to the noob who was bound to die either way.

    I would bet good money that stam players would whine louder if this switch does happen, and understandably so.

    Yeah maybe because stamina only heal is vigor since rally heal will be good after 20 sec.

    Also stamina build are melee while the magika build that need rapid are mostly (if not all) ranged.

    Now make rapid more reliable would be nice(without make it op) but until now i saw only complain about vigor from magika player not even a good suggestion just complaining.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ku5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    Lol heal and stun are trash.

    The heal used to be a staple for stam builds and the stun is on top of a spammable, something that was removed from an endgame-PvE-gear-powered ability because it was too strong, supposedly. Lol indeed.
    And for the last time, Vigor is reliable, Rapid Regen is not. You can't compare them head on.

    Rapid regen is reliable if you aren't a zergling, infact it's stronger since you can target ally members in a small group.

    You can't target it. You can hope it goes where you want it to. Even with six folks, I'd rather have everyone manage their own reliable self-heal than pray for it to work properly. Especially since with a small group, that bad luck proves fatal way faster than in a zerg.

    It does not matter if you target it, if you are solo it WILL hit you. And in small groups (which I consider 2-4 people) you can reliably use it on yourself or others since you know everyone's HP. Not only that but as a magicka build you would have more than just one self heal.

    I'm guessing it uses smart casting which means the heal goes to the lowest HP player which would be fantastic to use in a small group. Let's say I'm duoing with a stamina player, I can rapid regen them alongside their vigor ticking. That's basically a double vigor worth of healing on them.

    It's pretty crazy that people are going nuts about vigor but sleep on rapid regen, makes me think most of those players just run around in a zerg and thus complain about how rapid regen will never target themselves.

    Then solo a keep if you're that confident in Rapid Regen. Jesus, you don't even need that skill to 1vX the couple potatoes you drag around a rock.
    The real fights always take place in areas with multiple strong groups around. And it's not fantastic to have a HoT, which you should pre-apply, hit a low-health player instead of the caster. That player needs a burst heal and even Mutagen is something you wanna pre-apply. And to watch an ally's health bar with a burst heal ready, that's the healer's job in a good small group.

    Solo a keep in no cp if you're that confident in echoing vigor.

    You missed the point.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »

    I play no-CP and have never reached the health cap on harness magicka or ward ally.

    There’s nothing wrong with bone shield, it’s a 30% health capped shield for stam. Stamina builds are just used to not needing a shield because vigor and class heals are so strong. In pvp a 30% cap shield is 4K or so, so equivalent to most mag shields. Plus bone shield provides a synergy for group shields as well.

    There’s a difference between not needing something and an ability being garbage.

    Except everything is incorrect on this? Magicka shields are health capped, bone shield is health scaled. So while mag shield just have set maximum, bone shield uses 30% of health as scale and then gets reduced by half in PVP.

    Saying stamina builds are used to not needing is so wrong on so many factors that literally just person not playing stamina in PVP could say it.
    This is like telling templar can shield stack because they have class shield that is even better than bone shield

    Nope. There’s nothing wrong with bone shield. It’s a 30% health shield, so 15% in pvp. That’s about 4K and equivalent to mag shields in no-CP. The meta is that people don’t need it so don’t slot it, but it’s always been there and is usable.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • JusticeSouldier
    JusticeSouldier
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    ..
    Iskiab wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »

    I play no-CP and have never reached the health cap on harness magicka or ward ally.

    There’s nothing wrong with bone shield, it’s a 30% health capped shield for stam. Stamina builds are just used to not needing a shield because vigor and class heals are so strong. In pvp a 30% cap shield is 4K or so, so equivalent to most mag shields. Plus bone shield provides a synergy for group shields as well.

    There’s a difference between not needing something and an ability being garbage.

    Except everything is incorrect on this? Magicka shields are health capped, bone shield is health scaled. So while mag shield just have set maximum, bone shield uses 30% of health as scale and then gets reduced by half in PVP.

    Saying stamina builds are used to not needing is so wrong on so many factors that literally just person not playing stamina in PVP could say it.
    This is like telling templar can shield stack because they have class shield that is even better than bone shield

    Nope. There’s nothing wrong with bone shield. It’s a 30% health shield, so 15% in pvp. That’s about 4K and equivalent to mag shields in no-CP. The meta is that people don’t need it so don’t slot it, but it’s always been there and is usable.

    it's not usable in practice. It's "existance" is same as any stam shield at all. with it' cost this size is nothing.
    PC EU, all classes
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »

    I play no-CP and have never reached the health cap on harness magicka or ward ally.

    There’s nothing wrong with bone shield, it’s a 30% health capped shield for stam. Stamina builds are just used to not needing a shield because vigor and class heals are so strong. In pvp a 30% cap shield is 4K or so, so equivalent to most mag shields. Plus bone shield provides a synergy for group shields as well.

    There’s a difference between not needing something and an ability being garbage.

    Except everything is incorrect on this? Magicka shields are health capped, bone shield is health scaled. So while mag shield just have set maximum, bone shield uses 30% of health as scale and then gets reduced by half in PVP.

    Saying stamina builds are used to not needing is so wrong on so many factors that literally just person not playing stamina in PVP could say it.
    This is like telling templar can shield stack because they have class shield that is even better than bone shield

    Nope. There’s nothing wrong with bone shield. It’s a 30% health shield, so 15% in pvp. That’s about 4K and equivalent to mag shields in no-CP. The meta is that people don’t need it so don’t slot it, but it’s always been there and is usable.

    No. Its 30% of health, resource that any build in CP or noCP has far less than any normal mag build has magicka.

    Not really. No one hits the max health caps in no-CP unless they’re specifically wearing sets to try and max their magicka - alfiq and Necro. Even then, that’s a gimmick spec that doesn’t perform well because penetration, resistances, sustain and spell power are king.

    It’s like a stamina spec that’s trying to max their stamina stat in pvp. It doesn’t work.

    When you’re beating on a stamina player and they aren’t taking any damage do you think that’s magic? People do use it all the time.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 3, 2019 7:22PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • erio
    erio
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    Id hope so. Mag toons have always had better healing. About time.
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »

    I play no-CP and have never reached the health cap on harness magicka or ward ally.

    There’s nothing wrong with bone shield, it’s a 30% health capped shield for stam. Stamina builds are just used to not needing a shield because vigor and class heals are so strong. In pvp a 30% cap shield is 4K or so, so equivalent to most mag shields. Plus bone shield provides a synergy for group shields as well.

    There’s a difference between not needing something and an ability being garbage.

    Except everything is incorrect on this? Magicka shields are health capped, bone shield is health scaled. So while mag shield just have set maximum, bone shield uses 30% of health as scale and then gets reduced by half in PVP.

    Saying stamina builds are used to not needing is so wrong on so many factors that literally just person not playing stamina in PVP could say it.
    This is like telling templar can shield stack because they have class shield that is even better than bone shield

    Nope. There’s nothing wrong with bone shield. It’s a 30% health shield, so 15% in pvp. That’s about 4K and equivalent to mag shields in no-CP. The meta is that people don’t need it so don’t slot it, but it’s always been there and is usable.

    No. Its 30% of health, resource that any build in CP or noCP has far less than any normal mag build has magicka.

    Not really. No one hits the max health caps in no-CP unless they’re specifically wearing sets to try and max their magicka - alfiq and Necro. Even then, that’s a gimmick spec that doesn’t perform well because penetration, resistances, sustain and spell power are king.

    It’s like a stamina spec that’s trying to max their stamina stat in pvp. It doesn’t work.

    When you’re beating on a stamina player and they aren’t taking any damage do you think that’s magic? People do use it all the time.

    I think you just totally not understand how these things work :D Max health cap is irrelevant in noCP for the reason you specify. But bone shield isnt max health capped, its max health scaled meanwhile mag shields are mag scaled but health capped. So the only way bone shield and mag shield could be considered same size is if average mag build is running in noCP PVP with as much magicka as average stam build is running with health. And thats to just get within some comparable amount, mag shields scale with around 34% max magicka.
    Edited by SodanTok on August 3, 2019 9:22PM
    PC | EU | AD
  • kpittsniperb14_ESO
    kpittsniperb14_ESO
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    Sennecca wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.
    Derra wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I agree they should nerf it by making it heal only the caster - because healing random dudes is a massive advantage and losing that would obviously be a hefty nerf :wink:

    And what is the pve dungeon healer supposed to do when the dps they are “healing” heal themselves better than the healer or the heal heals only themselves. Pve healers will leave the game in droves due to pvp ‘balance’.

    This isn't pvp balance either, I honestly don't know what the hell they were thinking about when they decided vigor needed a massive buff.
    Magicka DK-Rowsdowerr
    Tertiary Meat GM
    "they're going to say, there's Daniel and he has 20 people with him, I want to kill him and there's
    40 more behind me."
    "I'm tired of the BS excuses, if you're going to do what you do at least admit what you're doing"
    YEEEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!
  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
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    This isn't pvp balance either, I honestly don't know what the hell they were thinking about when they decided vigor needed a massive buff.

    Maybe that tankiness was nerfed. Forward lost it's hot and dot damage got a pretty big buff ?

    Vigor is fine, the inflated tooltips people are cheesing aren't realistic.

    PC EU

    No cp Stamsorc - Lee Russell
  • marius_buys
    marius_buys
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    rCross healing ball groups
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    RIP vigor.
    Restart your router ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    RIP vigor.

    4 second vigors? Did I read that right?! Lol
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Insco851 wrote: »
    RIP vigor.

    4 second vigors? Did I read that right?! Lol

    -28% heal per tick, minus 1 tick, +33% cost. Idk how to comment on that :D
    Restart your router ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • MyKillv2.0
    MyKillv2.0
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    So.... they took the long road around Dallas to effectively increase Vigor by 33% from Live Servers. Is my math correct?

  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Oh come on, Vigor was too powerful and needed adjustments. The ST Vigor is still very strong.
    Za'Kharj - Khajiit Necromancer (Aldmeri Dominion)
    Xbox One X (EU)
  • Madhatten512
    Madhatten512
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    ku5h wrote: »
    Stibbons wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    If Vigor gets nerfed, same should apply to Rapid Regen/Mutagen.

    Single target heal that hits random dude. Ok.

    Is not random,hit the lowest ally in the area and heal the same as vigor even more if you add the two passive from resto staff and you can also heal someone when needed.

    If vigor get nerfed rapid should be nerfed aswell and vice versa.

    I love how you tried to make one of the biggest downsides of Rapid regen into a feature, ea resto passives.
    You can attach any weapon passives to Vigor as you wish. You're aware of that, right?

    are you aware that is the same for almost every stamina char that have to use the 2h for rally/momentum?

    By this logic rally is bad since you need to equip a 2h :neutral:

    2H is probably the best weapon line in the game, with execute, spammable, heal, stun, gapcloser, DoT and good passives. StamDKs and StamSorcs live by the two-handed sword.
    Resto, on the other hand, serves only a support purpose. With weak, situational passives. And unreliable, one-dimensional skills. It's nowhere close to 2H. And yet, stamina gets that last restriction removed, whereas magicka is expected to double down on the resto support. AND still has no guarantee for the big heals to actually help the caster. It's obviously biased.

    have u tried to d swing anything on live??? 2h is used because of rally/forward no other reason why do u think every stam dk on live took a huge nerf when instead of nerfing the necro bash they nerfed bash weaving and took away the burst from heroic light attack bash... Before that a sword and shield was a better offensive bar than the 2h bar instant damage and if u could weave well nice burst.. Now in scalebreaker 2h has received some buffs that could change things but to call 2h the best weapon line in the game is absurd..
  • miteba
    miteba
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    Is typically ZoS... from 8 to 80 and back again...
    Justin Timberlake's music should be in the next loading screen: what goes around comes around! 👯

    They had so "many" weeks, why did they nerfed so much (28%) in the last PTS week???
    They could and should lowered less last week to evaluate a middle ground...
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    MyKillv2.0 wrote: »
    So.... they took the long road around Dallas to effectively increase Vigor by 33% from Live Servers. Is my math correct?

    I was wondering the same thing. It was buffed, it was reduced, I think now it’s stronger then live and cheaper?
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
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