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Medium Armor is weak
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master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Elude:
Reduced the duration of the Major Expedition granted from this ability by 2 seconds so it will now last between 5 to 7 seconds, rather than 7 to 9 seconds.
The Major Expedition from this ability will now better respect its proc condition on what is considered a “Direct Area of Effect attack”. Note that many item sets that are thematically AoE DoTs may still trigger this effect, due to residual error data, and will be cleaned up in a future update when we shift our focus to auditing item sets.
Elude is trash.
After all, Medium Armor remains weak in PvP.
Shuffle effect time over 5 sec, so what changed?
No changed! People will use heavy armor in PvP.
Have you tried it on pts? The skill is 40 secs long and major expedition ranks from 5-7secs no matter how many pieces of medium you wear5,6, or 7 pieces. And it proc of things like sub assault and DBOS, also and tick of almost any aoe in the game. I think it's nice paired with FM to be sonic in ESO.
Since ancient times Elude has Major Evasion.
By the way, what do you want to say?Edited by master_vanargand on July 30, 2019 5:11AM1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »You mean slide? I would like them to add that animation. Would be fun to watch.
Yes, perfect, if they're going to have all offensive abilities greyed out for anybody in Heavy, at least let us slide around on the ground real nice
Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Elude:
Reduced the duration of the Major Expedition granted from this ability by 2 seconds so it will now last between 5 to 7 seconds, rather than 7 to 9 seconds.
The Major Expedition from this ability will now better respect its proc condition on what is considered a “Direct Area of Effect attack”. Note that many item sets that are thematically AoE DoTs may still trigger this effect, due to residual error data, and will be cleaned up in a future update when we shift our focus to auditing item sets.
Elude is trash.
After all, Medium Armor remains weak in PvP.
Shuffle effect time over 5 sec, so what changed?
No changed! People will use heavy armor in PvP.
Have you tried it on pts? The skill is 40 secs long and major expedition ranks from 5-7secs no matter how many pieces of medium you wear5,6, or 7 pieces. And it proc of things like sub assault and DBOS, also and tick of almost any aoe in the game. I think it's nice paired with FM to be sonic in ESO.
Since ancient times Elude has Major Evasion.
By the way, what do you want to say?
I'm saying that it may not look as bad as you think.0 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Elude:
Reduced the duration of the Major Expedition granted from this ability by 2 seconds so it will now last between 5 to 7 seconds, rather than 7 to 9 seconds.
The Major Expedition from this ability will now better respect its proc condition on what is considered a “Direct Area of Effect attack”. Note that many item sets that are thematically AoE DoTs may still trigger this effect, due to residual error data, and will be cleaned up in a future update when we shift our focus to auditing item sets.
Elude is trash.
After all, Medium Armor remains weak in PvP.
Shuffle effect time over 5 sec, so what changed?
No changed! People will use heavy armor in PvP.
Have you tried it on pts? The skill is 40 secs long and major expedition ranks from 5-7secs no matter how many pieces of medium you wear5,6, or 7 pieces. And it proc of things like sub assault and DBOS, also and tick of almost any aoe in the game. I think it's nice paired with FM to be sonic in ESO.
Since ancient times Elude has Major Evasion.
By the way, what do you want to say?
I'm saying that it may not look as bad as you think.
You suggested using Elude and Forward Momentum in PvP.
However, skill slot is not infinite, people often forget this.
Do you find it good to sacrifice other skill for Elude?
I don't think so.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Elude:
Reduced the duration of the Major Expedition granted from this ability by 2 seconds so it will now last between 5 to 7 seconds, rather than 7 to 9 seconds.
The Major Expedition from this ability will now better respect its proc condition on what is considered a “Direct Area of Effect attack”. Note that many item sets that are thematically AoE DoTs may still trigger this effect, due to residual error data, and will be cleaned up in a future update when we shift our focus to auditing item sets.
Elude is trash.
After all, Medium Armor remains weak in PvP.
Shuffle effect time over 5 sec, so what changed?
No changed! People will use heavy armor in PvP.
Have you tried it on pts? The skill is 40 secs long and major expedition ranks from 5-7secs no matter how many pieces of medium you wear5,6, or 7 pieces. And it proc of things like sub assault and DBOS, also and tick of almost any aoe in the game. I think it's nice paired with FM to be sonic in ESO.
Since ancient times Elude has Major Evasion.
By the way, what do you want to say?
I'm saying that it may not look as bad as you think.
You suggested using Elude and Forward Momentum in PvP.
However, skill slot is not infinite, people often forget this.
Do you find it good to sacrifice other skill for Elude?
I don't think so.
Most stam players are used to have seperate sources of major expedition and snare removal anyway. So if you don't run Quick Cloak it's not a loss.0 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Elude:
Reduced the duration of the Major Expedition granted from this ability by 2 seconds so it will now last between 5 to 7 seconds, rather than 7 to 9 seconds.
The Major Expedition from this ability will now better respect its proc condition on what is considered a “Direct Area of Effect attack”. Note that many item sets that are thematically AoE DoTs may still trigger this effect, due to residual error data, and will be cleaned up in a future update when we shift our focus to auditing item sets.
Elude is trash.
After all, Medium Armor remains weak in PvP.
Shuffle effect time over 5 sec, so what changed?
No changed! People will use heavy armor in PvP.
Have you tried it on pts? The skill is 40 secs long and major expedition ranks from 5-7secs no matter how many pieces of medium you wear5,6, or 7 pieces. And it proc of things like sub assault and DBOS, also and tick of almost any aoe in the game. I think it's nice paired with FM to be sonic in ESO.
Since ancient times Elude has Major Evasion.
By the way, what do you want to say?
I'm saying that it may not look as bad as you think.
You suggested using Elude and Forward Momentum in PvP.
However, skill slot is not infinite, people often forget this.
Do you find it good to sacrifice other skill for Elude?
I don't think so.
Most stam players are used to have seperate sources of major expedition and snare removal anyway. So if you don't run Quick Cloak it's not a loss.
Or equip a bow, roll dodge to get Major Expedition.2 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭- Heavy armor should only increase physical resistance
- Light armor should only increase spell resistance
- medium armor 50% physical and 50% spell resistance
0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Elude:
Reduced the duration of the Major Expedition granted from this ability by 2 seconds so it will now last between 5 to 7 seconds, rather than 7 to 9 seconds.
The Major Expedition from this ability will now better respect its proc condition on what is considered a “Direct Area of Effect attack”. Note that many item sets that are thematically AoE DoTs may still trigger this effect, due to residual error data, and will be cleaned up in a future update when we shift our focus to auditing item sets.
Elude is trash.
After all, Medium Armor remains weak in PvP.
Shuffle effect time over 5 sec, so what changed?
No changed! People will use heavy armor in PvP.
Have you tried it on pts? The skill is 40 secs long and major expedition ranks from 5-7secs no matter how many pieces of medium you wear5,6, or 7 pieces. And it proc of things like sub assault and DBOS, also and tick of almost any aoe in the game. I think it's nice paired with FM to be sonic in ESO.
Since ancient times Elude has Major Evasion.
By the way, what do you want to say?
I'm saying that it may not look as bad as you think.
You suggested using Elude and Forward Momentum in PvP.
However, skill slot is not infinite, people often forget this.
Do you find it good to sacrifice other skill for Elude?
I don't think so.
Talking about myself, I currently ise rally and FM, so I thnk peoppe can do both, provided they use 2h that is. Also, there is alway q or 2 flix slots, unless someone want to be full offensive on 1 bar and full deffensive.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭
- Heavy armor should only increase physical resistance
- Light armor should only increase spell resistance
- medium armor 50% physical and 50% spell resistance
I would like to suggest that medium armor have either snare reduction in it's passives like redgaurd instead of imporved sneak passive, or maybe each time snared/immovlized gain minor evasion for 5-7 secs. Also, maybe reduction to dot? Or resisance to status effect if snare or hit aoe, like hit by blockade of fire, you are immunie of burning status for 5 secs?0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »- Heavy armor should only increase physical resistance
- Light armor should only increase spell resistance
- medium armor 50% physical and 50% spell resistance
I would like to suggest that medium armor have either snare reduction in it's passives like redgaurd instead of imporved sneak passive, or maybe each time snared/immovlized gain minor evasion for 5-7 secs. Also, maybe reduction to dot? Or resisance to status effect if snare or hit aoe, like hit by blockade of fire, you are immunie of burning status for 5 secs?
These are unusual ideas. Let's see how the buff to Vigor pans out? It is much more sustainable in Medium than in Heavy. This buff to Vigor alone might make Medium more attractive than Heavy for many people for whom this is not presently the case.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I got an idea to balance out armor sets. In my opinion the reason why medium is not optimal in pvp is because what they are suppose to be good at "evasiveness and mobility" is easily taken away or countered with simple gap closer spam.
Here's an idea.
Medium Armor base walking speed: +10%
Medium Armor new passive for 5 pieces: Reduce Damage taken from Gap closers by 50%. Increase damage taken from direct melee attacks by 15%.
Heavy Armor base walking speed: -10%
So the purpose of this change is to make is so dodging and movement still feel key to the medium play-style. With the reduction to gap closer damage they can still dodge and not be burned down by gap closer spamming. With the base-line movement speed buff they can be nimble and dance around their opponents. The reduction to baseline heavy armor walking speed is to show they are indeed wearing heavy armor and should not be able to chase down a medium user so easily. Heavy should be the slow hold your ground type play-style while medium is the nimble fly that annoys you.
Just my two cents. I've played 7 medium nb forever and the only thing that i hate most about medium is how gap closers make my advantage useless. I got less heals, less resistance and my recovery turns to 0 any time i try to sprint and create an advantage. Its basically always a net-loss on stamina resource sustain to sprint compared to a heavy opponent just gap closing you since you miss like 2-3k stam ticks trying to sprint compared to the heavy spending 2k and getting a tick of regen while doing so. This is basically why i use major exp pots 24/7 so i can walk instead of sprinting and make plays that way. 0 Sprint regen hurts medium more then any other spec, sure it costs less to sprint but we also have the highest stam regen ticks that were missing out on.PS4 NA DC0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@GreenSoup2HoT
I don't think anyone would ever agree to Heavy being reduced in movement speed. It's used in PVE too and there is no precedent for it in the passives.
Instead, change 3% sprint speed to 2% movement speed (Basically minor expedition with 5 pieces)
Stamina Regen being cut off completely has always been a huge weakness to the Stam Recovery stat. I'd prefer to see ZOS consider allowing Stamina Recovery to continue to work in a reduced efficency when blocking/dodging/springting, etc.
It would help Tanks in pve too. There is no benefit to tank sets that provide Stam Recovery, it's completely wasted. Classes without any useful ways to sustain while blocking would get an opportunity to get sustain to their stamina pool outside of 5 pc set and 2pc monster set bonuses. Obviously block sustain would be a little too high and requires adjustments.
They recently allowed resource return from heavy attacks on blocking targets at 50% instead of 0%, so there IS precedent for it in the game and for ZOS to change their minds.
Those 2 are really the only major changes I'd love to see.Edited by MashmalloMan on July 31, 2019 8:43PM2 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Medium armor straight up increases weapon damage. Light armor does a little bit of that, but not per piece. It's why I don't run anything that's not 7-0-0 medium with a stamina DPS character, and part of the reason why stamina classes so clearly outpace magicka classes.
If anything, nerf medium armor so magicka classes aren't completely blown out of the water in the DPS department.
Hold on, I was possessed by a daedra for a moment. I rarely suggest nerfing something.
What I meant to say was that instead of buffing medium armor, which absolutely does not need it, perhaps buff light armor instead. Until then, don't touch medium armor, with its already powerful and unique strengths.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.2 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »@GreenSoup2HoT
I don't think anyone would ever agree to Heavy being reduced in movement speed. It's used in PVE too and there is no precedent for it in the passives.
Instead, change 3% sprint speed to 2% movement speed (Basically minor expedition with 5 pieces)
Stamina Regen being cut off completely has always been a huge weakness to the Stam Recovery stat. I'd prefer to see ZOS consider allowing Stamina Recovery to continue to work in a reduced efficency when blocking/dodging/springting, etc.
It would help Tanks in pve too. There is no benefit to tank sets that provide Stam Recovery, it's completely wasted. Classes without any useful ways to sustain while blocking would get an opportunity to get sustain to their stamina pool outside of 5 pc set and 2pc monster set bonuses. Obviously block sustain would be a little too high and requires adjustments.
They recently allowed resource return from heavy attacks on blocking targets at 50% instead of 0%, so there IS precedent for it in the game and for ZOS to change their minds.
Those 2 are really the only major changes I'd love to see.
I agree with basically everything you've said. I guess instead of heavy speed nerfing just give light 10% and medium 20% base walking speed. So no nerfs but everyone else is faster? Make the game feel more fast paced i dunno.
Its true though all the 0 stamina recovery changes to the game (sneak/block/sprinting) have only hindered the game and made it worse.
The 50% idea would be a good start. Like you'd think a nimble person who has 2500+ stamina recovery should be able to sprint for a very long time.
I think ZOS is only scared to touch it because of perma-block tanks. Block cost would have to be refactored. Even blocking for a second in pvp as medium is never worth it considering how much stamina you loose in 1 tick of regen. Its why Healing has always been the better option. On console its worse... you gotta block to rolldodge, so you can end up loosing regen ticks just because of that.
PS4 NA DC2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Medium armor straight up increases weapon damage. Light armor does a little bit of that, but not per piece. It's why I don't run anything that's not 7-0-0 medium with a stamina DPS character, and part of the reason why stamina classes so clearly outpace magicka classes.
If anything, nerf medium armor so magicka classes aren't completely blown out of the water in the DPS department.
Hold on, I was possessed by a daedra for a moment. I rarely suggest nerfing something.
What I meant to say was that instead of buffing medium armor, which absolutely does not need it, perhaps buff light armor instead. Until then, don't touch medium armor, with its already powerful and unique strengths.
Reason you run 7 medium is because just running 6 already makes it worse than 5 light armorEdited by SodanTok on July 31, 2019 9:09PM2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guarantee that the only issue with medium is that it has the sneak passive. Move that to legerdemain and replace it with literally any applicable passive be it crit resist, more max stam or whatever and medium would be in an ok spot.6 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »Medium Armor is fine. If you want to be as bulky as heavy armor build for it. You want to feel like heavy armor while being in medium, I hope you understand how that sounds....
Build for the dodge and burst or build for tankiness in sustain fights. You can have it all.
Heavy Armor can have high attack and high defense and high resource recovery.
Is not it unfair?
Light/medium armor can have capped resist, high resource recovery, more crit and cheaper abilities, and usually more penetration. It really can.2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually think resource management is easier on heavy as you get both resources back for being hit and the additional stam back on heavy attacks. The real problem for me with medium is the snares and roots, as your movement advantage can easily be taken away. The shuffle changes are a huge buff to medium and will help with that, as well as I wish the speed buff was to movement speed instead of sprint. Instead of the sneak passive, I think a temporary buff after roll dodging would be warranted, such as gaining a small bit of penetration or your next heal casted heals for a small bit more. Something that would help with their hit and run playstyle.
There is something to be said about the heavy resources management. Particularly how mediums recovery gets turned off while blocking or sprinting. I think a passive that allows stam recovery while sprinting would be nice.
And lag does favor resistance over active defense2 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Medium armor straight up increases weapon damage. Light armor does a little bit of that, but not per piece. It's why I don't run anything that's not 7-0-0 medium with a stamina DPS character, and part of the reason why stamina classes so clearly outpace magicka classes.
If anything, nerf medium armor so magicka classes aren't completely blown out of the water in the DPS department.
Hold on, I was possessed by a daedra for a moment. I rarely suggest nerfing something.
What I meant to say was that instead of buffing medium armor, which absolutely does not need it, perhaps buff light armor instead. Until then, don't touch medium armor, with its already powerful and unique strengths.
The passives are close to mirrors of one another between Light and Medium as they should be. Giving light armor an edge up just because of a Stamina Meta is not a solution, it's a bandaid. Armor is one of the core pillars of the game's design like Racial's. It should be as equal as possible.
If Stamina dps is meta, you don't blame the armor when there almost identical to light, you blame every other ability, passive, weapon skill lines and armor sets that have put Stamina in that place.
That's besides the point, the thread isn't about PVE it's about PVP utility of Medium Armor.
For example:
Heavy:- Passives have struck a balanced position so I don't think it needs any changes.
Medium- Movement Speed over Sprint Speed, more versatile and helps in active combat.
- More useful sustain since Stam Recovery =/= Mag Recovery and does not compare to the benefits of Constitution or Heavy Attack sustain from Heavy.
- Sneak passives are useless to many players, something more versatile would be appreciated.
- Crit per piece only gives .5% more in 7 than 5 pieces in light, not worth the nerf to your crit to go 5/1/1 almost ever, 10% crit for 5 pieces is the way to go and should be the same between Medium and Light.
Light- Needs more Spell Resistance, I'd argue close to double to offset the low armor on each piece compared to Medium. Medium having higher physical resistance is fine, but higher spell resistance doesn't make much sense.
- Snare reduction is next to useless due to calculations.
- Sprint cost reduction is undervalued and does not help sustain their limited Stamina pool, I'd offer them Break Free cost reduction too.
- Spell Penetration while versatile for DD builds, is not as versatile as Damage for Healing, therefor next to useless for Magicka Healers.
3 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Marshall1289
I agree with everything you've said about Heavy and Medium. I don't see that Light needs any buffs, but I don't play Magicka. I can say that messing with the Spell Pen passive might be an unnecessary headache for PvE teams, but if we could tweak Light to make Battlegrounds Healer a more attractive role, most BGs players will be very happy. There are probably ways to do this without messing up any important PvE Magicka DD passives.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »@Marshall1289
I agree with everything you've said about Heavy and Medium. I don't see that Light needs any buffs, but I don't play Magicka. I can say that messing with the Spell Pen passive might be an unnecessary headache for PvE teams, but if we could tweak Light to make Battlegrounds Healer a more attractive role, most BGs players will be very happy. There are probably ways to do this without messing up any important PvE Magicka DD passives.
Not sure how they could change it for healers or if I'd change it at all, just worth noting they don't get any real benefit. In my previous thread the only solution I could think of was a passive morph for them to have a choice, but there is nothing like that in the game.Edited by MashmalloMan on August 1, 2019 12:20AM0 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »It has sneak cost reduction and sneak detection size reduction.
Certainly there are unique Medium Armor Skills.
But that's the same with Light Armor Skills and Heavy Armor Skills.
Heavy Armor Skill has increased Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance, This is understandable.
Light Armor Skill has increased Spell Resistance, This is understandable too.
Medium Armor Skill...can't increased Physical Resistance...WTF?
Medium armor also gets Dodge cost reduction, something that is more powerful then armor.[/quote
Doesn't medium armour also increase crit in one of the passives?PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).0 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭Mettaricana wrote: »I think all 3 types of armor would be better if they did away with the 5pc system passives and make everything a per peice and have the passives adjusted accordingly so build with say 4 heavy 2 medium 1 light cpuld be a thing allowing us to customize our builds a lil better
Sounds like a logistical nightmarePC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Medium could use some sort of conditional boost to defense dependent on say roll dodge. As much as people like to complain, even with CP reductions roll dodge is still expensive and real roll dodge builds are gone from ESO. If you can help it you really want to avoid doing it more than a 2-3 time in a row due to the cost increase and frankly that’s not that many times. I’ve played a lot of heavy and a lot of medium and at this point there’s no doubt that heavy is far more forgiving without really sacrificing much damage or sustain at all. Whether than changes next patch seems iffy to me, the dot boosts are going to hurt. The issue is also server performance. Medium gets hit the hardest in lag. So imo, replacing the stealth passive with some conditional defense boost would be most beneficial or flat crit resist. Max stam could also potentially work as that could be leveraged into more defensive stats.2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »Medium armor straight up increases weapon damage. Light armor does a little bit of that, but not per piece. It's why I don't run anything that's not 7-0-0 medium with a stamina DPS character, and part of the reason why stamina classes so clearly outpace magicka classes.
If anything, nerf medium armor so magicka classes aren't completely blown out of the water in the DPS department.
Hold on, I was possessed by a daedra for a moment. I rarely suggest nerfing something.
What I meant to say was that instead of buffing medium armor, which absolutely does not need it, perhaps buff light armor instead. Until then, don't touch medium armor, with its already powerful and unique strengths.
The passives are close to mirrors of one another between Light and Medium as they should be. Giving light armor an edge up just because of a Stamina Meta is not a solution, it's a bandaid. Armor is one of the core pillars of the game's design like Racial's. It should be as equal as possible.
If Stamina dps is meta, you don't blame the armor when there almost identical to light, you blame every other ability, passive, weapon skill lines and armor sets that have put Stamina in that place.
That's besides the point, the thread isn't about PVE it's about PVP utility of Medium Armor.
For example:
Heavy:- Passives have struck a balanced position so I don't think it needs any changes.
Medium- Movement Speed over Sprint Speed, more versatile and helps in active combat.
- More useful sustain since Stam Recovery =/= Mag Recovery and does not compare to the benefits of Constitution or Heavy Attack sustain from Heavy.
- Sneak passives are useless to many players, something more versatile would be appreciated.
- Crit per piece only gives .5% more in 7 than 5 pieces in light, not worth the nerf to your crit to go 5/1/1 almost ever, 10% crit for 5 pieces is the way to go and should be the same between Medium and Light.
Light- Needs more Spell Resistance, I'd argue close to double to offset the low armor on each piece compared to Medium. Medium having higher physical resistance is fine, but higher spell resistance doesn't make much sense.
- Snare reduction is next to useless due to calculations.
- Sprint cost reduction is undervalued and does not help sustain their limited Stamina pool, I'd offer them Break Free cost reduction too.
- Spell Penetration while versatile for DD builds, is not as versatile as Damage for Healing, therefor next to useless for Magicka Healers.
Sometimes mechanics, sometimes sets. For pve for instant, sets that provude bonus to stam specs are always superior to that of light armor. Like AY set s any sets in the game that provides spell crit. For pvp, fury can be either on jewlry allwing people to run medium armor or heavy on body pieces. Compare champoin of the hist and chalk. Also, block, dodge roll, sprit are all used by stam and mag specs, and stam specs have higher stam pool allowing for more blocking, dodge rolling and sprinting than their counter mag spec.0 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »Marshall1289 wrote: »Medium armor straight up increases weapon damage. Light armor does a little bit of that, but not per piece. It's why I don't run anything that's not 7-0-0 medium with a stamina DPS character, and part of the reason why stamina classes so clearly outpace magicka classes.
If anything, nerf medium armor so magicka classes aren't completely blown out of the water in the DPS department.
Hold on, I was possessed by a daedra for a moment. I rarely suggest nerfing something.
What I meant to say was that instead of buffing medium armor, which absolutely does not need it, perhaps buff light armor instead. Until then, don't touch medium armor, with its already powerful and unique strengths.
The passives are close to mirrors of one another between Light and Medium as they should be. Giving light armor an edge up just because of a Stamina Meta is not a solution, it's a bandaid. Armor is one of the core pillars of the game's design like Racial's. It should be as equal as possible.
If Stamina dps is meta, you don't blame the armor when there almost identical to light, you blame every other ability, passive, weapon skill lines and armor sets that have put Stamina in that place.
That's besides the point, the thread isn't about PVE it's about PVP utility of Medium Armor.
For example:
Heavy:- Passives have struck a balanced position so I don't think it needs any changes.
Medium- Movement Speed over Sprint Speed, more versatile and helps in active combat.
- More useful sustain since Stam Recovery =/= Mag Recovery and does not compare to the benefits of Constitution or Heavy Attack sustain from Heavy.
- Sneak passives are useless to many players, something more versatile would be appreciated.
- Crit per piece only gives .5% more in 7 than 5 pieces in light, not worth the nerf to your crit to go 5/1/1 almost ever, 10% crit for 5 pieces is the way to go and should be the same between Medium and Light.
Light- Needs more Spell Resistance, I'd argue close to double to offset the low armor on each piece compared to Medium. Medium having higher physical resistance is fine, but higher spell resistance doesn't make much sense.
- Snare reduction is next to useless due to calculations.
- Sprint cost reduction is undervalued and does not help sustain their limited Stamina pool, I'd offer them Break Free cost reduction too.
- Spell Penetration while versatile for DD builds, is not as versatile as Damage for Healing, therefor next to useless for Magicka Healers.
Sometimes mechanics, sometimes sets. For pve for instant, sets that provude bonus to stam specs are always superior to that of light armor. Like AY set s any sets in the game that provides spell crit. For pvp, fury can be either on jewlry allwing people to run medium armor or heavy on body pieces. Compare champoin of the hist and chalk. Also, block, dodge roll, sprit are all used by stam and mag specs, and stam specs have higher stam pool allowing for more blocking, dodge rolling and sprinting than their counter mag spec.
Stamina does not have Spell Strategist sets.
Or Shield, Burst Heal, Pets of LOS, etc...
More Block, Roll Dodge, Sprint?
Did you forget that stamina build uses stamina skills?
Magicka build is easy to manage stamina, it is easy mode.
Oh, so jealous.Edited by master_vanargand on August 1, 2019 2:25PM0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭Medium armor straight up increases weapon damage. Light armor does a little bit of that, but not per piece. It's why I don't run anything that's not 7-0-0 medium with a stamina DPS character, and part of the reason why stamina classes so clearly outpace magicka classes.
If anything, nerf medium armor so magicka classes aren't completely blown out of the water in the DPS department.
Hold on, I was possessed by a daedra for a moment. I rarely suggest nerfing something.
What I meant to say was that instead of buffing medium armor, which absolutely does not need it, perhaps buff light armor instead. Until then, don't touch medium armor, with its already powerful and unique strengths.
4884 spell pen > 15% weapon damage.
Stam has to lean into WD hard to come close to the damage from the passive pen that light gives.Edited by akray21 on August 1, 2019 3:12PM4 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »Marshall1289 wrote: »Medium armor straight up increases weapon damage. Light armor does a little bit of that, but not per piece. It's why I don't run anything that's not 7-0-0 medium with a stamina DPS character, and part of the reason why stamina classes so clearly outpace magicka classes.
If anything, nerf medium armor so magicka classes aren't completely blown out of the water in the DPS department.
Hold on, I was possessed by a daedra for a moment. I rarely suggest nerfing something.
What I meant to say was that instead of buffing medium armor, which absolutely does not need it, perhaps buff light armor instead. Until then, don't touch medium armor, with its already powerful and unique strengths.
The passives are close to mirrors of one another between Light and Medium as they should be. Giving light armor an edge up just because of a Stamina Meta is not a solution, it's a bandaid. Armor is one of the core pillars of the game's design like Racial's. It should be as equal as possible.
If Stamina dps is meta, you don't blame the armor when there almost identical to light, you blame every other ability, passive, weapon skill lines and armor sets that have put Stamina in that place.
That's besides the point, the thread isn't about PVE it's about PVP utility of Medium Armor.
For example:
Heavy:- Passives have struck a balanced position so I don't think it needs any changes.
Medium- Movement Speed over Sprint Speed, more versatile and helps in active combat.
- More useful sustain since Stam Recovery =/= Mag Recovery and does not compare to the benefits of Constitution or Heavy Attack sustain from Heavy.
- Sneak passives are useless to many players, something more versatile would be appreciated.
- Crit per piece only gives .5% more in 7 than 5 pieces in light, not worth the nerf to your crit to go 5/1/1 almost ever, 10% crit for 5 pieces is the way to go and should be the same between Medium and Light.
Light- Needs more Spell Resistance, I'd argue close to double to offset the low armor on each piece compared to Medium. Medium having higher physical resistance is fine, but higher spell resistance doesn't make much sense.
- Snare reduction is next to useless due to calculations.
- Sprint cost reduction is undervalued and does not help sustain their limited Stamina pool, I'd offer them Break Free cost reduction too.
- Spell Penetration while versatile for DD builds, is not as versatile as Damage for Healing, therefor next to useless for Magicka Healers.
Sometimes mechanics, sometimes sets. For pve for instant, sets that provude bonus to stam specs are always superior to that of light armor. Like AY set s any sets in the game that provides spell crit. For pvp, fury can be either on jewlry allwing people to run medium armor or heavy on body pieces. Compare champoin of the hist and chalk. Also, block, dodge roll, sprit are all used by stam and mag specs, and stam specs have higher stam pool allowing for more blocking, dodge rolling and sprinting than their counter mag spec.
Stamina does not have Spell Strategist sets.
Or Shield, Burst Heal, Pets of LOS, etc...
More Block, Roll Dodge, Sprint?
Did you forget that stamina build uses stamina skills?
Magicka build is easy to manage stamina, it is easy mode.
Oh, so jealous.
Stam use magicka skills as well and easy to manage magicka.
Let me check to be sure:
1-Stamina Nighblade: shadowy disguise/dark cloak, fear, shade, mirage/phantasim escape.
2- Stamina dragonknight: spiked armor, ignous shield, dragon blood, fussilize, inferno, chains, wings.
3- stamina templar: ritual, topling charge, shards(for pve), sun shield.
4- stamina sorcerer: dark deal, streak, surge.
5: warden: vines, lotus flower, nature grasp, frost cloak, shimmer shield.
6- necromancer: bone armor, bitter harvest, render flesh, spirit mender, restoring tether.
I probalby missed some skills, but point is that each spec has their up and down. Just because you can dd as necromancer, does not mean you can be stronger than a dragonknight in pvp at least wither it's stamina and magicka. BTW, due to inhertly increased resistance, stamina users can if they want to use stamina shields like bone shield and next patch snb new shield skill. I'm main stam sorc in full medium armor btw.0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
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It 's almost like the forum is full of people with more questions than answers and take a 30 yr old slogan to explain what they are not able to understand.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 1, 2019 4:12PMWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0
