Linaleah wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Alchemy mats are end game mats. there are NO tier 1 alchemy mats,

Yes there are.

Any Reagent that can be coupled with a Tier 1 Water / Oil to make a viable Tier 1 Potion is by definition a Tier 1 Mat.

That it can also be used at higher Tiers doesn't negate that.


All The Best

nope. as long as they are used in END GAME POTIONS? they are NOT tier 1 material. they are end game material that is available for low level characters to farm and sell.

So what ingredients are used to make Tier 1 Potions and Poisons then?


All The Best

waters. solvents. https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=&SearchType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=&ItemCategory1ID=3&ItemCategory2ID=11&ItemCategory3ID=36&ItemTraitID=&ItemQualityID=&IsChampionPoint=false&LevelMin=1&LevelMax=&MasterWritVoucherMin=&MasterWritVoucherMax=&AmountMin=&AmountMax=&PriceMin=&PriceMax=

as i play primarily on PC NA, this is what I can vouch for the most. did a search. natural and clear water are used for tier one potions. natural water specifically is used for rank 1 writs and you get more water back in a material bag you get from a quest reward than what you have used to craft a potion for that quest.

MojaveHeld wrote: »

OP, after reading your comments throughout the thread, it's clear that you have a made-up shadow cabal of evil billionaires in your mind when you think of the trading system, which in reality doesn't exist. Resellers are very much a small minority of all the selling occurring at guild traders, the overwhelming majority of it comes from players selling the stuff they got themselves.

In the game's history, I can think of exactly one occurrence on PC NA where resellers cornered a market (earlier this year, a small group of a few friends banded together over the course of several weeks to buy up all the corn flower and then inflate the prices a few weeks later, and they were kicked from their major trading guilds for this). A central auction house wouldn't have prevented this one instance, in fact, it would have made it easier for them to do what they did.

So your assertions that this is some grave issue that just has to be fixed are patently false. You made it up out of thin air, it's not a legitimate problem. So stop acting nasty to everyone who disagrees with you and knows that this isn't the problem you try to make it out to be.

pelle412 wrote: »

The Evil Cabal of Billionaires. They are the reason my dreugh wax costs 6k instead of 2k and my desired mother's sorrow weapons cost more than 5k. Let's make it even easier for them by giving them a global auction house.

pelle412 wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

Does anyone else have any wonderful contributions on how to make a better economy in tamriel? please share

Yep. Instead of wasting time on forum threads that won't change anything, lets go out and farm stuff to sell and make a lot of gold

jdamuso wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

So if there is any hope at all, you simply MUST speak up and at least TRY.

Thank you for your contribution to making a better tamriel, does anyone else have any enlightening contributions they would like to add?

Yes I am speaking up as well. I like the current system. I do not abuse it. I make a lot of gold from it and I enjoy the community built up inside the trading guilds I am a member of and I will protest attempts to take that away.

Who wants to take it away? We are trying to create a new better system. The thing that is in question to be TAKEN AWAY, is flagrant mis-use of profiteering and market cornering.

I do not ever recommend taking away taking away the Trader Guild system. I protest against TTC because it is a virtual third party global auction house, and being exploited as it is. which is exactly what you WOULD be protesting against, and so I am in agreement.

The latest recommendation is to meld the best of both worlds utilizing the AUCTIONEERING aspect of a GAH and assimilating it into the current system, which i think is the most viable solution throughout the thread.

AND YOU STAND TO MAKE WAY MORE MONEY AS A LEGIT TRADER!!!! So there should be no arguments unless you are an exploiter.

Presented as such i believe to be the most practical application

All systems remain as they are now. The new feature would be to add a simple auction event at the time of initial bidding.

So when you place your item on the market you place it as "Minimum Bid Price"

This item will stay listed in your guild store for 30 days remaining as it is in the current working system.

Once someone has placed a bid, an event will occur starting a 24 hour bidding window. Other players will have the opportunity to bid on the item. A tab would be entered into guild-traders/guild-store windows "CURRENT BIDS" Where unlike the trade kiosk system, you can view the status of bid you currently have active, showing you the current bid for the items that you have placed bids on, allowing you to raise your bid from any trader kiosk or permanent banker npc.

This will fairly establish "what people are willing to pay" And set definitive value to an item. The seller stand to make MAXIMUM PROFIT from their wares (again so in being so, any argument would come from those that are exploiting the system as and fair traders stand to make MAXIMUM PROFIT)

And finally everyone including myself has no reason to make rage thread about the unfair pricing as, the value of items has been made definitive by the standard of an items value is exactly WHAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY.

Everyone wins. (except exploiters, but who really cares that they lose? they have been cheating you all the while) Sellers make MAXIMUM PROFIT, buyers now know a DEFINITIVE VALUE and are given a chance to buy every item at a fair price. (whether good price or high price, its fair cus its worth what people are willing to pay)


I think this is the best working model for an upgrade to the system with compromise for both traders and consumers. Sorry it doesn't help exploiters, can't please everyone.

Any ideas on how this would work, or a better working model of this idea? or ideas on how this will fail miserably?

GO.

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

Player A sells an item for what it is probably actually worth.
Player B knows that he can get more money for it, so he buys it and resells it.

Urigall wrote: »

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

Player A sells an item for what it is probably actually worth.
Player B knows that he can get more money for it, so he buys it and resells it.

Simple way to encourage sensible asking prices - a penalty fee for unsold items. If the item sells within the stipulated, number of days, the standard listing fee is levied as per current practice. If the item doesn't sell within the stipulated period, another fee is levied. Reduce the time period for sales to something like 14 days in order to focus minds even further.

Some traders would be cute and remove their unsold listings, just before the sales period expired. Fair enough. Either relist at a sensible price or risk having to keep delisting the item until someone buys it. And waiting for a "hope value" sale locks up one of the 30 slots for 13 days or so.

Set the penalty fee at a level where listing items at "hope value" introduces risk.

Flipping is essentially investment. Investment should have risks if high profits are being sought. Chasing 50% profit on purchase price? Better make sure it was acquired at 50% of market value. Otherwise, the flipper takes on the financial risk of not selling the item at their desired price. Up to them.

This would keep trader inventories fresher too. No more Skinchanger motifs languishing at the 29 day mark, 200% over average, selling price.

jdamuso wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

OP, after reading your comments throughout the thread, it's clear that you have a made-up shadow cabal of evil billionaires in your mind when you think of the trading system, which in reality doesn't exist. Resellers are very much a small minority of all the selling occurring at guild traders, the overwhelming majority of it comes from players selling the stuff they got themselves.

In the game's history, I can think of exactly one occurrence on PC NA where resellers cornered a market (earlier this year, a small group of a few friends banded together over the course of several weeks to buy up all the corn flower and then inflate the prices a few weeks later, and they were kicked from their major trading guilds for this). A central auction house wouldn't have prevented this one instance, in fact, it would have made it easier for them to do what they did.

So your assertions that this is some grave issue that just has to be fixed are patently false. You made it up out of thin air, it's not a legitimate problem. So stop acting nasty to everyone who disagrees with you and knows that this isn't the problem you try to make it out to be.

You just stated an exact example of someone doing this successfully. and then stated that its a false assumption.

Thank you for contributing by giving an example of witnessed proof of my accusations.

Good show old chap. If you have any more examples of this practice exactly happening just as i have said please do feel free to share again.

pelle412 wrote: »

The Evil Cabal of Billionaires. They are the reason my dreugh wax costs 6k instead of 2k and my desired mother's sorrow weapons cost more than 5k. Let's make it even easier for them by giving them a global auction house.

Global Auction House would have you place an item on the market with an opening bid, and players would then have to bid on the item/stack of items where as the bidding would close at a definitive time. Therefore dis-allowing players from swiping at low prices for profit, if the item IS ACTUALLY therefore clarifying the value of said item/stack of items by the extent of what someone is willing to pay for it, and HIGHLY discouraging and "flipper" activity as they would be paying exactly what it is worth... Helping the consumers greatly by not being gouges by being force to pay false values inflicted by the cornering of markets. You could still in-fact flip in this way, yet the fact of being bid against mean you probably are not going to buy druegh wax for 2.5k you're going to buy it at 6k or be out-bid... This doesn't even have to happen as a GLOBAL auction simply creating the AUCTION part of the process and placing it in the system allowing players to close bidding at 12 hours 24 hours or 36 hours would also move product faster, give a clearer insight to the seller as to what is not selling at the moment and allow for replacing stock at a more rapid pace than the 30 day standard in the current model...

You've made a great point, thank you for your contribution to making a better trading system if you have any more great ideas please share them.


Does anyone else have any wonderful contributions on how to make a better economy in tamriel? please share

jdamuso wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

So if there is any hope at all, you simply MUST speak up and at least TRY.

Thank you for your contribution to making a better tamriel, does anyone else have any enlightening contributions they would like to add?

Yes I am speaking up as well. I like the current system. I do not abuse it. I make a lot of gold from it and I enjoy the community built up inside the trading guilds I am a member of and I will protest attempts to take that away.

Who wants to take it away? We are trying to create a new better system. The thing that is in question to be TAKEN AWAY, is flagrant mis-use of profiteering and market cornering.

I do not ever recommend taking away taking away the Trader Guild system. I protest against TTC because it is a virtual third party global auction house, and being exploited as it is. which is exactly what you WOULD be protesting against, and so I am in agreement.

The latest recommendation is to meld the best of both worlds utilizing the AUCTIONEERING aspect of a GAH and assimilating it into the current system, which i think is the most viable solution throughout the thread.

AND YOU STAND TO MAKE WAY MORE MONEY AS A LEGIT TRADER!!!! So there should be no arguments unless you are an exploiter.

Presented as such i believe to be the most practical application

All systems remain as they are now. The new feature would be to add a simple auction event at the time of initial bidding.

So when you place your item on the market you place it as "Minimum Bid Price"

This item will stay listed in your guild store for 30 days remaining as it is in the current working system.

Once someone has placed a bid, an event will occur starting a 24 hour bidding window. Other players will have the opportunity to bid on the item. A tab would be entered into guild-traders/guild-store windows "CURRENT BIDS" Where unlike the trade kiosk system, you can view the status of bid you currently have active, showing you the current bid for the items that you have placed bids on, allowing you to raise your bid from any trader kiosk or permanent banker npc.

This will fairly establish "what people are willing to pay" And set definitive value to an item. The seller stand to make MAXIMUM PROFIT from their wares (again so in being so, any argument would come from those that are exploiting the system as and fair traders stand to make MAXIMUM PROFIT)

And finally everyone including myself has no reason to make rage thread about the unfair pricing as, the value of items has been made definitive by the standard of an items value is exactly WHAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY.

Everyone wins. (except exploiters, but who really cares that they lose? they have been cheating you all the while) Sellers make MAXIMUM PROFIT, buyers now know a DEFINITIVE VALUE and are given a chance to buy every item at a fair price. (whether good price or high price, its fair cus its worth what people are willing to pay)


I think this is the best working model for an upgrade to the system with compromise for both traders and consumers. Sorry it doesn't help exploiters, can't please everyone.

Any ideas on how this would work, or a better working model of this idea? or ideas on how this will fail miserably?

GO.

jainiadral wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

but seriously though, i'm a super extra casual trader, if you can even call it that. main reason i decided to join a trading guild was becasue my bags were filling up with stuff I was getting as I was playing and some of those stuff, like duplicate recipes, looked like would get me far more gold if I sold it to other players, vs vendoring it. plus housing was released and while initially, I made the gold via in game means, trading can help with that (and you know, those aforementioned recipes that kept piling up). once I asked around about how trading actualy works? it was incredibly anticlimactically easy to get in. my first trading guild actualy invited ME out of the blue. they had a middle of nowhere location, just a starting super casual no minimums just be online every once in a while kind of requirements. it gave me a taste of how system worked. my next guild i saw advertisement in general chat for - and whispered to ask to join. there was a guild I was in for a while, that i found on official forums. one of my current guilds? most recent one? I found through guild finder. its not. that. hard.

We are not arguing that it is hard to get into a trading guild. We are arguing that there are not enough traders to go around for the trading guilds that are out there that want to trade. IMO the current system is not "fine" (@Vajrak), but it would be much more palatable if they added more traders to the system to allow more guilds to trade to everyone.

Personally, my preference would be a global AH, but in an effort to keep the current system, I think it would work better with more traders.

As I have stated in other posts, My goal is to be able to go to the local traders looking for materials or consumables and be able to actually find reasonable listings for what I am looking for. Finding no listings or 2K for one alchemy mat is not acceptable/reasonable to me.

more traders will make it harder to find reasonably priced items as the listings are going to be even more spreadout. what you want is more traders in highly in demand spots. which... might not be a bad thing at all, but its not going to make those bids cheaper and trading guilds that are just starting out - will have to work up from cheaper, more out of the way traders - STILL.

I'm sorry, but I do not follow this logic. If they doubled the number of traders in the current locations, that does not spread them out any more so that it is today. There is no logical reason for the current limited number of traders per city beyond "Just Because that is the way it is" There is plenty of open space available in most of the locations that I have had the opportunity to look at. I still have yet to explore the entire map.

Linaleah wrote: »

every time a story chapter or DLC is added - more traders are added to the system. its still competitive, but more traders ARE added. some of those traders, on PC na at least are actualy held by guilds that are not even primarily trading guilds in their focus. if these guilds can break in and stay in... those new trading guilds that cannot? need to figure out their edge, their niche. and I mean... one of my earliest trading guilds used to be in a fairly mediocre location. not as low traffic as a singular trader by the wayshrine in a wilderness somewhere, but on the lower location tier. their trader is, last I checked - is now in Elden Root. so...

the thing about ESO is that if you want to get anywhere significant - you have to invest time and more importantly, patience. even a casual, play only on weekends player can find a little bit of time for that, but you cannot avoid it. and its not just trading. every part of the game asks you to be in for the long haul if you want to get anywhere. its just part of the game's culture.

And they will add around 10 traders with each update later this year, but my point being that it is still not enough. We need more traders added than just 20 by the end of the year. There is no attempt to scale up the number of traders to match the player base.

Theres also the issue of players not wanting to participate within the confines of the current system. People keep using "guilds have empty slots" as somehow proof that theres plenty of space for the overall playerbase to take part in the economy. With a growing population of players one should be asking why is it so hard to fill up these slots? They should have a backlog of requests to join if this system was so damn great.

But Id argue a lot of that empty space is due to the playerbase not wanting to deal with the hurdles to entry into the system. You have to join an active trading guild (Ive yet to meet someone that takes trading more seriously only have one), that trading guild will need to reserve a location for sales, that reservation requires a hefty price tag so the guild runs raffles and demands dues. Even with that the guild may not be able to secure a prime location let a lone a back up one. On top of that on console some of these guilds are dealing with ghost guilds extorting them which further depletes their coffers. So unless this guild has deep pockets and has regularly sat at a high trafficked location theres always a very good chance you will sit out for a week or more before getting back into it. So theres a very very strong possibility that even after all of that you could potentially be sitting on tons of items you cant sell because you cant access a guild trader. And if you do get one, theres a stronger possibility it will be a low trafficked area where sales will struggle.

Theres no limit on how many trade guilds are out there, nor the possible slots. But theres only so many times a player will participate in a system not rewarding their effort before they give up and start selling their items to a merchant, because a few gold is better than no gold.

That's definitely the case for me. I'm too flighty to commit myself even to a casual social guild. I tried the hardcore commitment thing with a trading guild. I lasted about 4 mos., I think. Even before the GM stepped up pressure when our trader bidding situation went way south, it still felt like a heavy weight.

Then there was the whole remembering to donate thing, just another chore to remember and add to ESO's ridiculously long list. Aside: what about adding a voluntary auto-donate function for guild members via the bank? Maybe cut down on all the mental grocery lists you have to maintain in this game.

Shopping's a huge PITA too. I'd rather be looking at beautiful scenery, reading lorebooks, delving, or listening to the bards play. Really getting into trading for a bit burned me out on all of ESO's other grinds. Right now, I'm in needs-minimization mode with this game because even buying little treats like pets via the traders is a ridiculous chore.

pelle412 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Are you incapable of doing simple math? Filled or not, the slots are not enough. Thought that was quite clear but apparently some of you need spoonfed.

You're right. There aren't enough kiosks to support every ESO player in existence. Just like there isn't enough pink wallpaper to wallpaper every home pink. Because, that's just what everyone needs/wants.

Linaleah wrote: »

Censered wrote: »

A lot of these people arguing for this system seem to have never played another MMO before yet are claiming the farmers market system is better than the free market system. They are either without the knowledge of how systems work or their arguments are intentionally without integrity because they are they ones profiting the most off of this.

First off more competition means less inflation and potential for abuse. That's literally one of the most basic facts of economics.

In other games you can buy everything and relist it just like here but it's commonly two to three hundred percent not one to ten thousand percent. Because everyone is involved in the economy they will soon be undercut over and over especially by new people who want money now so that is what controls inflation.

except most of us HAD played other MMO's and are aware of advantages and disadvantages of centralized systems. and what a lot of us are saying is that you are wrong when you say that markups do NOT happen nearly as much in centralized systems. they absolutely do. inflation happens in any and all systems that do not have a stable, continuous gold sink implemented. off the top of my head - swtor. had a HORRIBLE inflation that is STILl ongoing. why? because at one point they increased credit generation AND allowed a bug to go on far too long that allowed large influx of credits into the system but... they never bothered taking those credits out OR even adding enough proper credit sinks to balance out all those credits you got from quests. as a result - regular players who just play casually can NOT afford anything that is relevant to actual gameplay. it seems like million credits is a lot, but its barely a drop in a bucket.

are centralized trade systems convenient? YES. YES THEY ARE. do they make it easier, in theory for casual player to list things? YES. YES they do. do they make shopping experience more convenient and faster? yes. but and here is the main question - DO THEY MAKE ITEMS MORE AFFORDABLE AND PREVENT ARBITRATION? ABSOLUTELY NOT. in every MMO I have played and I played my fair share, heck let me tell you about my recent experience in WoW. a game I have been playing on and off since Burning Crusade. Blizzard messed up economy back in Warlords of Draenor. you see, they introduced these super easy Garrison missions. anyone can run them. you can be "plays only on weekends" casual and make gold with them in conciderable amounts. but they did NOT introduce proper gold sinks. and inflation... went... NUTS. so they made it a little harder to make gold this way in Legion, but still for the most part left it in, because THEY know that not everyone wants to bother with selling but a lot of people are interested in buying, whether from npc vendors or Ah itself. not only it was too little too late, but it wasn't nearly enough. so no in BFA.. we have a result. they are trying to reduce gold generated from in game activities, and so average casual cannot really afford much of anything. items they have acess to sell are oversaturated and because WoW is a game where everything that came before the most recent expansion - is obsolete? those obsolete items don't sell for much at all. the only way to genuinely, truly make gold - is to not be a casual. for all the accesibility, the end result is virtualy the same except here, in THIS game? because we HAVE reliable gold sinks, causal player can go steal for half an hour and be able to afford to buy that spinner's staff the very. same. day.

would I love it if shopping in ESO was NOT a prolonged experience? YES. YES I WOULD. however... from all the MMO's that I have played, whether I dabbled for a few months (Final Fantasy, Aion, Allods, Rift, LOTRO, DnD online and a few more I cannot remember right now, casue I didn't stick around long enough), or played for years (like WoW, guild wars 2, Secret world and its reboot- legends, SWTOR, Neverwinter - just to name a few - all games with centralized trading) - none of them had a system that was as effective as what ESO has when it comes to keeping items relatively affordable, allowing for players who do NOT wish to sell, still afford to buy things they may need or want with relatively low amount of grinding, compared to other games. and all of it thanks to guild trader bids. do you have any good ideas, legitimately good, working ideas that can replace guild trader fees at being as effective and consistent at removing gold out of the economy?

the only suggestion that I personally i think could work is adding a centralized vendor ala Pirrari the smuggler. someone who charges extra fee for convenience of both listing and buying without having to be in a guild, or having to go to a guild kiosk. allows to buy anything from ANY trader, but you have to pay extra for it.