Whatever you may call the current system, I like it. It adds experience and skill into a trading mini game. We have a large number of guilds that exist solely around this feature of the game. It's actually the only remaining part of ESO that keeps me logging in. I'm not gonna whine if it goes away, I'll just take an extended leave playing something else for some time.

AlnilamE wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.

Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*

Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.

The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.

Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.

In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.

Heh, I always saw myeelf as the small tradesperson who supplied people's backordered mats, helping them reach their crafting goals But GW2 and WoW aren't the only systems out there. SWTOR's GTN could feel kind of personal on smaller servers. A small fry could have some impact in driving mats prices for a day or so.

Anyway, I like to feel like a casual part of the larger whole without having to live and breathe trading from the moment I log in. I'm not guild material of any type, but I do like to feel like at least a tiny cog in the universe.

I feel that way in ESO. When my small social guild had a trader in a steady location, we listed a lot of provisioning mats, and it was really cool so see the same people come by on a weekly basis and buy several stacks of mats so they could in turn make the food they were probably selling at their own trader.

This kind of history and knowing who you are selling to is absent in GW2.

AlnilamE wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.

Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*

Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.

The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.

Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.

In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.

That system was/is one of the best trade systems in a mmorpg I have ever seen.

I really dislike it. Anything worth buying costs an arm, a leg and the blood of your first born. And anything I have to sell has thousands of the same item listed at minimum price. I have just taken to vendoring almost everything.

Now if only it was possible to farm mats as easily as you can in ESO, I would never need it for anything.

Place orders for mats/gear instead of buying it on the spot. Be the a part of the minimum price plague I was always happy to fill the cheapo orders since I'm lazy. I can't be the only one

Thank you, but I'm taking an extended break. I only log in if my guildies need help with a guild mission or something.

I just got burnt out with the pressure to do dailies and whatnot in order to afford mats I needed for crafting and I felt like I never had time to do my own thing.

In ESO, with the exception of one character last year during the jubilee event, I've never run out of crafting mats, and I don't even actively farm, it's just stuff I picked up along the way when I play, and it doesn't feel like a chore at all.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

So, the current trading system helps immensely to control inflation

And all the evidence says the opposite.

Kiosk prices are now 20-30 times what they were when the game launched. That's equivalent of 2000% to 3000% inflation.

Tier 1 Craft Mats, when you can find them listed at all, are roughly 20 times what they were - 2000% inflation.

Gold Tempers are roughly 40-50 times what they were - 4000% to 5000% inflation.

That is "controlled inflation" by your reckoning?


All The Best

Can you please tell me which Tier 1 mats are that expensive? Because every time I check, they are just above vendoring price (which is 4g each), so absolutely not worth using up a guild slot for, after fees.

If you have Tier 1 mats that sell at 80g/each, I would very much like to know what they are, if you don't mind sharing your secret)

Try looking at Alchemy mats. They seem to start at around 25g and go up from there.

barney2525 wrote: »

Without even looking at what replaced it? Interesting viewpoint.

There is a difference between the terms ' Solely ' and ' Primarily '. VERY few guilds are Solely - meaning ONLY involved in trading. Most Trading Guilds also are involved in All other Guild aspects socially, in PvP, and in PvE. They won't just disappear if things change.

Yes you're right I kind of assumed a global auction house. If a new system keeps trader kiosks I guess it should still be fine. 90% of discussion and officer collaboration in 3/5 of my guilds are related to strategic pricing and how to secure a trader and fundraising/auctions surrounding that. Of course there's PvE/PvP chatter in the other 10%.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

he system was fine before this cancer (TTC) appeared,

No, it wasn't.

The system has always been unfit for purpose.
It has always excluded more people from Trade than it has brought into Trade.
It has always been difficult for Sellers to find what they were looking for - appallingly bad UI is most definitely ZoS's fault.

Te Kiosk System has never been "fine", unless you are referencing the "f" from the Aerosmith song of the same name.


All The Best

The Kiosk System was always a rushed band-aid in reaction to the complaints regarding player economy. It was meant to silence those upset with the original vision ZOS had, and poorly thought through. This entire debacle is a testament to ZOS ignorance of MMO building and their hard-headedness when it comes to correcting course.

From an internal and heavily stifled player economy where your only means of trade was through internal sales and zone chat announcements to a system heavily biased towards those already in prime locations. Dont you dare talk about it though because the players that fully take advantage of the system will shout you down with "dead horse" complaints and "you just want to rig the system" accusations.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Are you incapable of doing simple math? Filled or not, the slots are not enough. Thought that was quite clear but apparently some of you need spoonfed.

You're right. There aren't enough kiosks to support every ESO player in existence. Just like there isn't enough pink wallpaper to wallpaper every home pink. Because, that's just what everyone needs/wants.

jaws343 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I believe there are 195+ vendors in the game at the moment (not counting Cyrodiil). That means 195+ guilds that have traders. Is it really that hard to join one of those to make some money?

Also if some players are buying up something and “price gouging” the general population, I want to know what those items are. This way I can sell it too at slightly lower prices to make some serious gold.

Yes it is because with 195 Vendors at 500 slots per guild that means only 97,500 slots available for active players. Now considering that a lot of people in the Trading game are in multiple trading guilds that means even less slots than that for everyone else. ZOS boasts 11+ million accounts, which we know is not active but with even a fraction of that running around in the game the actual slots for traders is still insignificant. This means the player economy is accessible at any given time to only a small portion of the active playerbase.

So again. Yes it is hard to join one of those guilds to make money.

As someone who is in multiple trading guilds, not a single one of them is full. So these magical players who cannot get into a trading guild aren't looking hard enough.

Are you incapable of doing simple math? Filled or not, the slots are not enough. Thought that was quite clear but apparently some of you need spoonfed.

If the current slots aren't even full, then the math suggests that there aren't enough players interested in filling those spots. Simple math right?

It's like, there are 11 million players but the PVP servers aren't capable of handling that many players. And still, of the servers we do have, only 1 is full on each platform.

I don't know about you, but I never seek out to pay for slots that do not pay for themselves. Lets be realistic, and ask why the spots are not filled and why with such a large amount of players there is no incentive or interested in those spots

wow 9 pages.. there must be some issue with the trading system.

Linaleah wrote: »

dear OP. I'm sure people have said it to you already over and over again. while our system is far from ideal, yours specific complains? having centralized trading does NOT fix those complains. arbitration exists wherever you can trade items between individuals with currency involved. regardless of what specifics of trading system is- arbitration will continue to exist.

you not being able to afford something is NOT something changing the trading system can help. your "solutions" are utterly unworkable (binding items on purchase, seriously? but I guess you are not in any sort of guild that is even a little bit social, becasue guess what - sometimes, a fair number of times - items are bought to be used as gifts, raffle prizes, etc)

our trading system is inconvenient. there is no excuses around it. however, it is NOT impossible to break into, you do NOT need obscene amounts of gold to start trading. and there are more people who are just selling whatever they find, and players that buy from them to use directly or gift to a friend, than there are people reselling. prices can only go as high as what people are willing to pay. if the price gets too high - it doesn't sell. reselling is only worth it, if you get a certain amount of all but guaranteed profit. so the only things that get resold are things posted well WELL under the market value, and even then, far from all of those listings are bought by arbitrators.

majority of people engaging in trade are NOT some billionaire magnates. there are a few that are, but most people are just selling whatever they get as they play that they don't plan on using themselves. and guess what? you can do it yourself! on EU I'm not even IN a trading guild and the guild I'm in, gets trader maybe once a month, sometimes twice. basicaly, not every week. and i STILL managed to sell some stuff and didn't even have to undercut all that much, despite the trader we DO get occasionally, not being anywhere near a super desirable location. and that's another thing. you COULD always check those out of the way traders.

is it inconvenient? yes. yes it is. but your problem Op is that you think the prices are too high, and THAT is not something that can EVER be fixed without completely ruining player economy. cause you know what else happens if you severely restrict player trading like you are suggesting? players lose motivation to farm rare drops and you never find those listed at ALL. you are going to have to gird your loins and do your OWN farming. and there is no option to just go steal for a few days, fence it and just buy what you want (which is STILL faster then hoping rng takes pity on you and gives you the drop you want - quickly. or ever)

DID you actually read any of the OPs comments? I dont think you did.

I'll read ALL your comments and commented on each one.

jdamuso wrote: »

The trader re-selling and trade guild price gouging is disgusting. anything and everything worth buying is constantly being bought up by players with billions of gold and being re-sold at unreasonable prices. The amount of gold being farmed out of the game is obscene and being filtered into the pocket of a handful of the community creating an economically dystopian capitalist garbage dump.

Yes this does happen. It's a trading mini game. The current kiosk system makes this much harder. In a different centralized trading system, the people who enjoy doing this could do it much faster and easier. I don't think people have billions of gold.

jdamuso wrote: »

Howabout account binding items sold through traders huh?

That has nothing to do with the current trading system. It's a game design limit.

jdamuso wrote: »

Even to obtain a trader you have to compete with this garbage, which is just encouraging the practice...

What is "garbage"? Bidding on trader kiosks? Lucky for you, you don't have to. By joining a trading guild, their officers do this for you. Problem solved.

jdamuso wrote: »

And before you come back with some snub retort to the point.... empirical evidence: the cheapest purple inferno staff of a mother's sorrow on the market is 55k yet there are well over 260 of this item available on the market right now. Suggesting there is not the demand for the supply. If it was rare enough to be so valuable then okay. but they are clearly its not that rare if there are 260 of it not being sold...

If you need a staff so bad, farm it yourself. If noone's gonna buy those staves at the listed prices, the sellers will relist at lower prices. No serious trader wants to have stalled inventory.

jdamuso wrote: »

Now the problem is... EVERYTHING is being bought and re-sold..... EVERYTHING that will sell AT ALL. and being marked up 500-3000% regardless of the demand....

Your numbers are ridiculous of course. Dreugh wax for example would then be listed for 180k a piece?

jdamuso wrote: »

Trade system is broken... the add-ons allowed to interfere make it worse... The economy in this game is one of the worst ive seen EVER in 30 years of gaming... Its an abomination.

Yet here you are.

jdamuso wrote: »

The only saving grace of this game... is that i dont mind farming stuff myself, and thank the lord for that, because the economy is a complete embarrassment.

Good for you. Farming and selling stuff is fun.

pelle412 wrote: »

I'll read ALL your comments and commented on each one.

jdamuso wrote: »

The trader re-selling and trade guild price gouging is disgusting. anything and everything worth buying is constantly being bought up by players with billions of gold and being re-sold at unreasonable prices. The amount of gold being farmed out of the game is obscene and being filtered into the pocket of a handful of the community creating an economically dystopian capitalist garbage dump.

Yes this does happen. It's a trading mini game. The current kiosk system makes this much harder. In a different centralized trading system, the people who enjoy doing this could do it much faster and easier. I don't think people have billions of gold.

jdamuso wrote: »

Howabout account binding items sold through traders huh?

That has nothing to do with the current trading system. It's a game design limit.

jdamuso wrote: »

Even to obtain a trader you have to compete with this garbage, which is just encouraging the practice...

What is "garbage"? Bidding on trader kiosks? Lucky for you, you don't have to. By joining a trading guild, their officers do this for you. Problem solved.

jdamuso wrote: »

And before you come back with some snub retort to the point.... empirical evidence: the cheapest purple inferno staff of a mother's sorrow on the market is 55k yet there are well over 260 of this item available on the market right now. Suggesting there is not the demand for the supply. If it was rare enough to be so valuable then okay. but they are clearly its not that rare if there are 260 of it not being sold...

If you need a staff so bad, farm it yourself. If noone's gonna buy those staves at the listed prices, the sellers will relist at lower prices. No serious trader wants to have stalled inventory.

jdamuso wrote: »

Now the problem is... EVERYTHING is being bought and re-sold..... EVERYTHING that will sell AT ALL. and being marked up 500-3000% regardless of the demand....

Your numbers are ridiculous of course. Dreugh wax for example would then be listed for 180k a piece?

jdamuso wrote: »

Trade system is broken... the add-ons allowed to interfere make it worse... The economy in this game is one of the worst ive seen EVER in 30 years of gaming... Its an abomination.

Yet here you are.

jdamuso wrote: »

The only saving grace of this game... is that i dont mind farming stuff myself, and thank the lord for that, because the economy is a complete embarrassment.

Good for you. Farming and selling stuff is fun.

There's one comment, and glad you went and re-read. it if you read any more of them you would see that i do not need the staff, as well as garbage being referred to as the filtering of most of the gold in the game into the select few. You realize that there is one person that even declares that he owns four guilds with four traders. and thats just one guy. If one guy can have four traders. and there 195/4 that leaves about 50 traders for the community of tens of thousands of players.

dreugh wax is sold for 2.5k regularly and priced up to 6k which is nearly 300% as stated. A spinners inferno staff placed on the market a 15k (a reasonable value for an overfarmed overland set) is marked up to 150K is a 1000% mark up. Dont even want to talk about what happens to a rare motif. so no they are not ridiculous numbers ofcourse.

People buy the staves at the listed prices because there is no chance at a lower price because the prices are gouged. And they prolly have to much money from gouging items themselves that tossing away 150k for not rare items isnt a big deal.

people do have billions of gold, watch some youtubes and when they open thier inventory and you see 999999945 gold....

binding items on sale would not only dump items removing them from the game but prevent re-sellability. and as another stated above, consumables and crafting materials maybe should be exempt.

and yet here i am. trying to work out the bugs and find solutions that benefit the entire community in general and make the game economy system and game in general better for everyone. not just the select few that love to exploit any system that they can.

If you had read, i also encouraged any other creative ideas on how to better this system. again the fact that the thread is ongoing clearly suggests that there are in fact issues, else itd be laughed off and ignored.

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.

Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*

Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.

The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.

Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.

In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.

Heh, I always saw myeelf as the small tradesperson who supplied people's backordered mats, helping them reach their crafting goals But GW2 and WoW aren't the only systems out there. SWTOR's GTN could feel kind of personal on smaller servers. A small fry could have some impact in driving mats prices for a day or so.

Anyway, I like to feel like a casual part of the larger whole without having to live and breathe trading from the moment I log in. I'm not guild material of any type, but I do like to feel like at least a tiny cog in the universe.

I feel that way in ESO. When my small social guild had a trader in a steady location, we listed a lot of provisioning mats, and it was really cool so see the same people come by on a weekly basis and buy several stacks of mats so they could in turn make the food they were probably selling at their own trader.

This kind of history and knowing who you are selling to is absent in GW2.

AlnilamE wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

What would be great is if ZOS created systems that brought the community together instead of pit them against each other.

Gods, wouldn't that be nice... *enters beautiful dream where everything is in harmony, the gentle strains of Kumbaya in the background*

Right, what? Oh yeah, trading That's the biggest aspect I miss about games with Universal Trading Systems (AH) is that feeling of being a part of the MMO ecosystem. Lone wolves can sell their stuff and be a quiet part of the holistic community experience. I don't feel that at all here because to join the clique, I have to engage in persistent social and competitive aspects of the game that I can't stand. That push me away from logging in.

The trading system isolates us from one another on a very large scale.

Interestingly, I feel the opposite. I feel like in ESO, I am part of the ecosystem when I'm listing things for sale or buying things.

In GW2, the Black Lion Outpost feels like a glorified vendoring NPC. It's completely impersonal.

That system was/is one of the best trade systems in a mmorpg I have ever seen.

I really dislike it. Anything worth buying costs an arm, a leg and the blood of your first born. And anything I have to sell has thousands of the same item listed at minimum price. I have just taken to vendoring almost everything.

Now if only it was possible to farm mats as easily as you can in ESO, I would never need it for anything.

Place orders for mats/gear instead of buying it on the spot. Be the a part of the minimum price plague I was always happy to fill the cheapo orders since I'm lazy. I can't be the only one

Thank you, but I'm taking an extended break. I only log in if my guildies need help with a guild mission or something.

I just got burnt out with the pressure to do dailies and whatnot in order to afford mats I needed for crafting and I felt like I never had time to do my own thing.

In ESO, with the exception of one character last year during the jubilee event, I've never run out of crafting mats, and I don't even actively farm, it's just stuff I picked up along the way when I play, and it doesn't feel like a chore at all.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

So, the current trading system helps immensely to control inflation

And all the evidence says the opposite.

Kiosk prices are now 20-30 times what they were when the game launched. That's equivalent of 2000% to 3000% inflation.

Tier 1 Craft Mats, when you can find them listed at all, are roughly 20 times what they were - 2000% inflation.

Gold Tempers are roughly 40-50 times what they were - 4000% to 5000% inflation.

That is "controlled inflation" by your reckoning?


All The Best

Can you please tell me which Tier 1 mats are that expensive? Because every time I check, they are just above vendoring price (which is 4g each), so absolutely not worth using up a guild slot for, after fees.

If you have Tier 1 mats that sell at 80g/each, I would very much like to know what they are, if you don't mind sharing your secret)

Try looking at Alchemy mats. They seem to start at around 25g and go up from there.

Alchemy mats are end game mats. there are NO tier 1 alchemy mats, unless you mean waters and THOSE are cheap (not to mention easily farmed without actualy farming)

jdamuso wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

I'll read ALL your comments and commented on each one.

jdamuso wrote: »

The trader re-selling and trade guild price gouging is disgusting. anything and everything worth buying is constantly being bought up by players with billions of gold and being re-sold at unreasonable prices. The amount of gold being farmed out of the game is obscene and being filtered into the pocket of a handful of the community creating an economically dystopian capitalist garbage dump.

Yes this does happen. It's a trading mini game. The current kiosk system makes this much harder. In a different centralized trading system, the people who enjoy doing this could do it much faster and easier. I don't think people have billions of gold.

jdamuso wrote: »

Howabout account binding items sold through traders huh?

That has nothing to do with the current trading system. It's a game design limit.

jdamuso wrote: »

Even to obtain a trader you have to compete with this garbage, which is just encouraging the practice...

What is "garbage"? Bidding on trader kiosks? Lucky for you, you don't have to. By joining a trading guild, their officers do this for you. Problem solved.

jdamuso wrote: »

And before you come back with some snub retort to the point.... empirical evidence: the cheapest purple inferno staff of a mother's sorrow on the market is 55k yet there are well over 260 of this item available on the market right now. Suggesting there is not the demand for the supply. If it was rare enough to be so valuable then okay. but they are clearly its not that rare if there are 260 of it not being sold...

If you need a staff so bad, farm it yourself. If noone's gonna buy those staves at the listed prices, the sellers will relist at lower prices. No serious trader wants to have stalled inventory.

jdamuso wrote: »

Now the problem is... EVERYTHING is being bought and re-sold..... EVERYTHING that will sell AT ALL. and being marked up 500-3000% regardless of the demand....

Your numbers are ridiculous of course. Dreugh wax for example would then be listed for 180k a piece?

jdamuso wrote: »

Trade system is broken... the add-ons allowed to interfere make it worse... The economy in this game is one of the worst ive seen EVER in 30 years of gaming... Its an abomination.

Yet here you are.

jdamuso wrote: »

The only saving grace of this game... is that i dont mind farming stuff myself, and thank the lord for that, because the economy is a complete embarrassment.

Good for you. Farming and selling stuff is fun.

There's one comment, and glad you went and re-read. it if you read any more of them you would see that i do not need the staff, as well as garbage being referred to as the filtering of most of the gold in the game into the select few. You realize that there is one person that even declares that he owns four guilds with four traders. and thats just one guy. If one guy can have four traders. and there 195/4 that leaves about 50 traders for the community of tens of thousands of players.

dreugh wax is sold for 2.5k regularly and priced up to 6k which is nearly 300% as stated. A spinners inferno staff placed on the market a 15k (a reasonable value for an overfarmed overland set) is marked up to 150K is a 1000% mark up. Dont even want to talk about what happens to a rare motif. so no they are not ridiculous numbers ofcourse.

People buy the staves at the listed prices because there is no chance at a lower price because the prices are gouged. And they prolly have to much money from gouging items themselves that tossing away 150k for not rare items isnt a big deal.

people do have billions of gold, watch some youtubes and when they open thier inventory and you see 999999945 gold....

binding items on sale would not only dump items removing them from the game but prevent re-sellability. and as another stated above, consumables and crafting materials maybe should be exempt.

and yet here i am. trying to work out the bugs and find solutions that benefit the entire community in general and make the game economy system and game in general better for everyone. not just the select few that love to exploit any system that they can.

If you had read, i also encouraged any other creative ideas on how to better this system. again the fact that the thread is ongoing clearly suggests that there are in fact issues, else itd be laughed off and ignored.

You realize most of the thread has been ongoing disagreeing that anything is wrong with the system?

That the market as it is is just that, a free market --- yes, Dreugh Wax can be priced at 6k, which by the way is just a 240% markup, not "Nearly 300!" --- and some people will pay that price, because they don't want to bother zoning to a trade hub or asking in Zone. Most won't pay that price for it, so it is a gamble on the sellers part to list it that high, and sometimes it pays off, most times it doesn't.

A Spinners inferno staff at 15k is a reasonable value. But guess what, so is 150k.

How?

Because the value of the item is determined by the person(s) buying it, NOT the seller. A full gold infused Spinner Inferno Staff with Gold Enchant is a reasonable value at 5k. Why is that reasonable? Because that is about the return I can hope for from deconning it, as it has no usefulness in any of my builds.

With commodity items, the price tends to stabilize more rapidly.

Having a decentralized trade system allows people to chase down deals for some items, compete for other items --- I just got a motif yesterday for my own use that was located for 10k when it's normal price is closer to 30k because it is a low drop rate and low farm rate, but by going to some of the smaller/out of the way traders, was able to find what I wanted AND at a good price.

I won't go as far as others are, saying you don't understand, but you make a very weak argument.

You want proof of your weak argument, you have it above: With a Centralized Trade system, a very few people can dominate and control the price of a good, easily. They can cut out ANY other potential competition by sheer size of their wallets, and with so many sources of money in-game it doesn't take long to do that.

People who want the most gold will find a way to make it, no matter what type of trade system we have --- this current market allows new players a BETTER chance to compete in the market. That is entirely a player and playstyle choice --- just needing enough levels, skillpoints, and appropriate gear to farm the item(s) preferred to sell, and can use that to buy pretty much anything else.

Yes, anything -- there are groups who don't want to engage in selling goods, so they sell services (Skyreach Carries, content carries for achievements and skin unlocks).

What you are asking for isn't just a change to the trading system, but a change to the entire game economy. A reduction in the payout of everything, from mob gold drops through gold writs, as well as a reduction in crowns-for-gold trading, and it was too late for that after the first month of the game being live, because you already had people banking high by then WITHOUT it coming from trader sales.

You are asking for the destruction of an entire segment of the player base, those who play to engage in the trade system for the sake and thrill and enjoyment they get of doing so. Yes, those players exist, and their reward is having a large wallet to work with, but often lacking in many other parts of the game. I personally know many players who have several million in gold, but can't pull over 10k DPS on their most often played characters, because it's not a part of the game they really care about learning/mastering --- I ask them when I want some gold making advice, they ask me when they want some damage dealing or tanking or healing advice, because that is where my interests in the game lie.

TL;DR --- The Trade System is fine as is, and allows new players to catch up fast if that is there goal, a global trade would destroy market volatility and price variance by putting everything into the hands of an extreme minority, because they would have the capability to control it at that point.

edited for spelling.

Malacthulhu wrote: »

I don't know about you, but I never seek out to pay for slots that do not pay for themselves. Lets be realistic, and ask why the spots are not filled and why with such a large amount of players there is no incentive or interested in those spots

You are correct.


Two Points:

1) That some Trade Slots are left unfilled does not mean there are enough, mathematically there are only enough Trade Slots for approximately 10% of players.

2) So why are so few players engaging with the Trade System? Because it sucks.

If you asked and independent software house to to make a wholly dysfunctional MMORPG Trade System that did everything it could to make Trade unappealing, inefficient, and counter-intuitive, they'd just copy what ZoS has done.

I simply can not think of a worse Trade System in an MMORPG.

All The Best

Censered wrote: »

First off more competition means less inflation and potential for abuse. That's literally one of the most basic facts of economics.

Yeah, it is pretty clear that those defending this system have 1) no real understanding of the basics of economics, and 2) specifically no understanding at all of Pre-Industrial Trade systems.


All The Best