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Rapid Maneuver Change - Please Revert (PvE Impact & PvP Performance Impact)
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Marginis✭✭✭✭✭It's a little bit more utility in combat because attacking doesn't take away the buff anymore, but it takes away from using it to go around the overworld unmounted or for speeding through dungeons to catch up to a friend that needs help. I mean, it was still useful in combat too, and with the new tiny duration it was about as effective. I can make do with this change more than other changes, but I would MUCH rather keep rapids how it's been, or at least make a morph just for overworld utility.
Sidenote, this is another indirect nerf to nightblades, seeing as sprinting breaks cloak. Gonna add it to the pile of NB nerfs this patch. Ugh.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.1 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I see it as an unique thing to use if you making something like a "stamina support" in a raid group or something. Other than that I have no opinion about it.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends0 -
chaz✭✭✭✭WOW FOR SHAME. How dare you nerf something in PvE. How..........DARE..........You!!!FOR LORD DAGON !!!!!!!!!!
*** Lord Dagon's Mythic Dawn (Eso Guild Dicord Invite link)
>>>>> BETA Player In-Game Gift<<<<< ((((Chaz's Profile of 2013))))ESO Beta Test Ultimate Question for control!
Lord Dagon's Mythic Dawn Guild is now recruiting. Dailies, trials, Raids, Fun, Discord (required for staying on Crown), guild bank and so much more. Msg me or mail me in game @Chaz for invite. **See Link Here** ElderScrollsOnlineYouTube
ElderScrollsOnline Purchase History April 17, 2017 through May 30th 2022 (Crowns,Upgrades, ESO Plus) = $5,610.380 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArcaneFeathers wrote: »I have been thinking about this and while I know there is an excuse about how it previously was the longest source of major expedition (even though if you attack anyone you lose it for rapids)... does seem like poor timing that they want to lower the buff to 8 seconds after you can now purchase skyshard skillpoints, and will be able to buy skill lines including Psijic in a future update which will have a longer source of major expedition if this goes live.
This will just be a blow to quality of life in game if it goes live. If it’s actually an over preforming issue in PvP why not just limit the buff to 8 seconds in PvP zones/instances and leave it be elsewhere?
That's always been one of my biggest gripes about ZoS. They have this special buff called Battle Spirit that can literally overwrite character effects if you are doing PvP, yet the choose to NOT use it and instead nerf a skill for PvP and devastate it in PvE. It boggles the mind how they can ignore the tool they designed for PvP and just ruin skills across the board, regardless of where the adjustment is actually needed.Edited by Vercingetorix on July 10, 2019 4:42PM“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”1 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭maybe they want us to slow down, enjoy the view, stop grinding, read the lorebooks.... deep breath everyone......I guess they wanted to bring back rapids spam in PvP?
has it ever left?August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What I find curious is that they are trying to standardize skills to reduce calculations and thereby decrease server load. But, instead of thousands of players casting Rapids every 30 seconds, now you'll have thousands of players spamming it every 8 seconds.
Sure doesn't sound efficient to me!4 -
vgabor✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is one of the worst changes in the next patch:
1) PvE: very negative effect on QoL for overland quests and getting around in towns on foot.
2) PvP: will allow perma in combat Major Expedition to ball groups while it will be entirely useless for small scale and solo players.
The last patch already gutted the skill as currently neither the morphs are worth the skill point to even consider morphing the base skill into any of those, but he base skill itself is a very good QoL for getting around either on foot or on horse outside of combat. Would be much better use of development making useful morphs for the skill rather than ruining it entirely...5 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭What I find curious is that they are trying to standardize skills to reduce calculations and thereby decrease server load. But, instead of thousands of players casting Rapids every 30 seconds, now you'll have thousands of players spamming it every 8 seconds.
Sure doesn't sound efficient to me!
Yes, it will likely cause MORE processing to be done - not due to differing calculations, but due to the increased quantity and frequency of them. I think they are trying to remove different stored instances of the same buff on their database to ease up on lookup time, but I wonder if hitting the same indexed value for calculations (even at a higher frequency) will be a significant improvement on performance to warrant the change in the first place.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”1 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭I normally really like rapids, and love running it on my offbar even though it means one less ability slot for my actual rotation. This change is probably enough for me to just stop running it entirely.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0
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validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I feel like this standardization started out good, but when taken to extremes was bound to cause issues.
Anyone thats ever tried to make a game knows that trying to get everything in a game to conform to a uniform logic is impossible. The general rule is that the general rule is broken.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade4 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭Add me as a +1 to the " This change sucks " list.Proud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%2 -
OmniDo✭✭✭✭✭
Umm...I just press a button and an addon automatically switches all my gear and skills in literally an instant.But who wants to change all their clothes every time they decide to hoof it for a minute? Might as well leave your fighting gear on and walk slowly, it will take the same amount of time.
/shrug
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is one of the worst changes in the next patch:
1) PvE: very negative effect on QoL for overland quests and getting around in towns on foot.
2) PvP: will allow perma in combat Major Expedition to ball groups while it will be entirely useless for small scale and solo players.
The last patch already gutted the skill as currently neither the morphs are worth the skill point to even consider morphing the base skill into any of those, but he base skill itself is a very good QoL for getting around either on foot or on horse outside of combat. Would be much better use of development making useful morphs for the skill rather than ruining it entirely...
They don't stop to consider how useful ME can be from a QoL standpoint.
Before Nerfmire, I always ran Dreugh King Slayer (or Vicious Ophidian/Serpent for medium) on my werewolf, which at the time gave you 20 seconds of Major Expedition after killing an enemy. That was just enough time to devour a couple corpses, and then get to the next target before it ran out. But they cut the duration on all ME armor sets to just 8 seconds. And by the time I got done feeding, the speed was already gone. So I had to abandon the set and just get used to playing slower (and less efficiently.)
Now I can guarantee you nobody stopped to consider that before they made the set virtually worthless. The patch notes stated that the reason they were cutting speed was because of PvP targeting issues. So to compensate for lag and inadequate Cyrodiil server capabilities, they threw the PvE baby out with the bathwater.0 -
Bowser✭✭✭✭✭This isn't just the worst change in this patch, its the worst change since the game launched!1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This isn't just the worst change in this patch, its the worst change since the game launched!
I don't think it's worse than destroying 20 years of Bosmer lore and making characters we spent years building and nurturing irrelevant in one fell swoop...... but it's pretty darn close. Because this makes life hard for all 13 of my characters.2 -
lookstwice✭✭✭Yep by the far the worst change for me. I can just feel myself loosing interest once again in this game...And that's after quitting for almost 3 years and only just coming back. Last time was the fix/nerf of sneak speed.
I've been looking at WoW videos and checking on the goings on over there once again.
Edited by lookstwice on July 11, 2019 5:18AM1 -
Ivan04✭✭✭✭This is just a great example of developers nerfing an aspects of mass pvp while forgetting about 90% of the playerbase that need this skill to move around anywhere. At this point it is the most depressing change of the new patch. Please @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @ZOS_Gilliam , think of the majority of the players.4 -
nCats✭✭✭As I said elsewhere, such drastic changes should not be happening in a mature project. Especially to skills that have been there from the start.5 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is just a great example of developers nerfing an aspects of mass pvp while forgetting about 90% of the playerbase that need this skill to move around anywhere. At this point it is the most depressing change of the new patch. Please @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @ZOS_Gilliam , think of the majority of the players.
This is actually a buff to zergs and ball groups because they will now be able to use skills and abilities while Rapids is active. And instead of one guy spamming Rapids, he will only have to cast it once every 8 seconds to keep his group mobile, since it no longer drops when you cast a spell. But a huge nerf everywhere else.2 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭EatYourVegetables wrote: »I have an RS injury so I can't hold down the sprint buttons for long, so I use this to get an acceptable movement speed in PvE.
I'm right there with you.
ZOS, please pay attention to this point, it is important!!!
While the quality of life arguments SHOULD matter, making things more difficult for those of us with injuries would be a dealbreaker, if I was a dev.
Bad change for all the reasons listed in this thread.1 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is one of the worst changes in the next patch:
1) PvE: very negative effect on QoL for overland quests and getting around in towns on foot.
2) PvP: will allow perma in combat Major Expedition to ball groups while it will be entirely useless for small scale and solo players.
The last patch already gutted the skill as currently neither the morphs are worth the skill point to even consider morphing the base skill into any of those, but he base skill itself is a very good QoL for getting around either on foot or on horse outside of combat. Would be much better use of development making useful morphs for the skill rather than ruining it entirely...
In CP, I'm thinking of running this on my solo magicka-based characters in place of RAT. Get the Unchained passive and cast it after breaking free. Since it may well be your only stamina skill on a magicka build, you'll have 5 seconds of flexibility to cast it. So I disagree that it will only be useful to big groups. That said, I agree that the change was uncalled for.This is just a great example of developers nerfing an aspects of mass pvp while forgetting about 90% of the playerbase that need this skill to move around anywhere. At this point it is the most depressing change of the new patch. Please @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @ZOS_Gilliam , think of the majority of the players.
This is actually a buff to zergs and ball groups because they will now be able to use skills and abilities while Rapids is active. And instead of one guy spamming Rapids, he will only have to cast it once every 8 seconds to keep his group mobile, since it no longer drops when you cast a spell. But a huge nerf everywhere else.0 -
PapaWeeb✭✭✭✭My friend who I play with regularly has problems with her hands and forearms. She almost never sprints, too much holding keys or stretching causes discomfort. I'm in charge of keeping rapids up so we don't have to get around at a snail's pace.
This is a stupid change that nobody asked for. What's wrong with having a QoL mobility skill that doesn't get used in combat? Making the expedition stay in combat only empowers the ball groups and zergs who can afford to cast it every 8s.
Undo this.PC EU7 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is one of the worst changes in the next patch:
1) PvE: very negative effect on QoL for overland quests and getting around in towns on foot.
2) PvP: will allow perma in combat Major Expedition to ball groups while it will be entirely useless for small scale and solo players.
The last patch already gutted the skill as currently neither the morphs are worth the skill point to even consider morphing the base skill into any of those, but he base skill itself is a very good QoL for getting around either on foot or on horse outside of combat. Would be much better use of development making useful morphs for the skill rather than ruining it entirely...
This is a great illustration of why this change is so bad for the game. It literally solves NOTHING and instead creates new problems that will inevitably need to be addressed. Ball groups are a huge source of lag in Cyrodiil and making it even worse by giving them MORE reason to stay clumped up is beyond stupid.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”2 -
jpl7340✭✭✭I hate this change. Please revert back to the previous iteration in some way. Possibly one of the morphs?1
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Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭It gets worse than that, as far as ballgroups go.
With the old Rapids, the go-to mobility tool for ballgroups was RAT.
This meant that if you negated and timestopped a ballgroup, that was a very effective counter to their mobility.
So the usual anti-ballgroup play was to negate, timestop, and ultidump.
Now, Rapids is a STAMINA ability, so it can't be negated.
Furthermore, snares are getting nerfed due to the U24 changes, which makes Major/Minor Expedition a more effective counter against snares than it was pre-U24.
Yet another reason why this is an incredibly stupid change, which should have never seen the light of day.0 -
DanStartheFirst✭✭✭I'm kinda impressed it took this long for them to nerf it. It was several updates ago they put the hammer down on nearly every other source of major expedition - from gear sets to skills - so I wasn't really surprised by this.
The cost reduction is a nice touch, as for my mag characters the whole major expedition thing didn't make a tremendous impact to me when the cost was over half my stamina pool and I could only sprint for around 6-7 seconds anyway. I would be curious to know how many people used rapids for the major expedition rather than the major gallop? I mount up, cast rapids, and ride off into the sunset, which will now be cheaper!
Also, as an interesting bit, the minor expedition will be front-loaded to stack with the major, so you'll be able to move even fast, albeit for a shorter period of time.
*Adds swift to game* "OMG speed op *nerfs game*"1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DanStartheFirst wrote: »I'm kinda impressed it took this long for them to nerf it. It was several updates ago they put the hammer down on nearly every other source of major expedition - from gear sets to skills - so I wasn't really surprised by this.
The cost reduction is a nice touch, as for my mag characters the whole major expedition thing didn't make a tremendous impact to me when the cost was over half my stamina pool and I could only sprint for around 6-7 seconds anyway. I would be curious to know how many people used rapids for the major expedition rather than the major gallop? I mount up, cast rapids, and ride off into the sunset, which will now be cheaper!
Also, as an interesting bit, the minor expedition will be front-loaded to stack with the major, so you'll be able to move even fast, albeit for a shorter period of time.
*Adds swift to game* "OMG speed op *nerfs game*"
Swift and Sloads were both overpowered to sell copies of Summerset. When sales dropped off, they nerfed them back down to where they thought they should be.0