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Remove Cast Time from Ultimates
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Who sat down and thought "hey you know what we should do? Make combat feel like crap."
Genius!12 -
SupremeRissole✭✭✭✭They should be consistent with all "bursty" ultimates.
Heck, Soul-Assault technically had 500ms cast time because it did nothing for the first half second.
But if they build around cast time ultimates, it will be a better move. You will need to react rather than respond to something that has already happened.
I live in Australia with 500ms ping and more often than not the Leap, incap or DBoS that kills me happens after I'm already dead. There is no React, nearly everything is a Response with high ping, yet I still think these cast times are stupid.6 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just spent an hour in PTS.
OK, so I didn't try CP PvP.
but AFAIK, I don't think 400-500ms really makes a difference.
My Berserker/Onslaught and DBS feels just as natural. Maybe because I don't really do animation cancelling on ulti?
where and how are you guys testing this to say it's now really awkward etc.?August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber3 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭I just spent an hour in PTS.
OK, so I didn't try CP PvP.
but AFAIK, I don't think 400-500ms really makes a difference.
My Berserker/Onslaught and DBS feels just as natural. Maybe because I don't really do animation cancelling on ulti?
where and how are you guys testing this to say it's now really awkward etc.?
go on live and try doing a dizzy>db>block
then go on pts and try the same thing
if you look at time stamps you will lose about a second and a half in your rotation due to the db now acting like a clunky dizzy swing. Not only will this make it as simple to counter as dizzy swing, but any 5 second buffs that you got before your rotation are almost guaranteed to be over by the time your going into execute rotations
It is sad, but the recent patches are really pushing players to just run dots anyways so skill and this cast time wont really matter too much for most people1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭On the fence about this change. It should happen, but the 2H heavy into DBOS is still one of the most awesome looking combos in the game.0331
06020 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »
Everyone wanting everything to happen immediately is horrible.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!5 -
JackDaniell✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cast time is bad for eso, this game is fun because of how it feels to play. Dont take that away please ZOS.Ebonheart Templar
www.youtube.com/user/kristofersommermusic15 -
lookstwice✭✭✭Wow I really thought that most people would be on the same page and not want a cast times on ultimates.2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »I think they should add MORE cast time to other Ultimate abilities as well. So many have clearly relied on their crutch for so long and now that it's being taken away, they are struggling. It's time to actually use Ultimate abilities in a strategic way, not as an animation-cancelled spammable.
what are you even talking about?. Animation canceling ults/abilities makes the game harder in pvp not easier. You actually have to use your brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and dodge their ults as opposed to a hand holding obvious cast time.... no cast times require more strategy and observation than cast times.
And now the attacker will have to use his brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and land their ults.
This change does not make it more or less difficult to play the game, it just shifts the difficulty from the defender to the attacker.6 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »I think they should add MORE cast time to other Ultimate abilities as well. So many have clearly relied on their crutch for so long and now that it's being taken away, they are struggling. It's time to actually use Ultimate abilities in a strategic way, not as an animation-cancelled spammable.
what are you even talking about?. Animation canceling ults/abilities makes the game harder in pvp not easier. You actually have to use your brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and dodge their ults as opposed to a hand holding obvious cast time.... no cast times require more strategy and observation than cast times.
And now the attacker will have to use his brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and land their ults.
This change does not make it more or less difficult to play the game, it just shifts the difficulty from the defender to the attacker.
I'll explain it again. Try going on live and use any of these ultimates without canceling them. It will be the same as it is on PTS. Now have someone use them on you and try to block them as soon as you see the animation. Spoiler: you won't be able to cause by the time you react it will have already happened to you. The only difference cast times will make is make combat awkward and possibly introduce buggy difficulties if, for example, you get stunned mid ultimate.Edited by Trian94 on July 11, 2019 6:14AMPC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »I think they should add MORE cast time to other Ultimate abilities as well. So many have clearly relied on their crutch for so long and now that it's being taken away, they are struggling. It's time to actually use Ultimate abilities in a strategic way, not as an animation-cancelled spammable.
what are you even talking about?. Animation canceling ults/abilities makes the game harder in pvp not easier. You actually have to use your brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and dodge their ults as opposed to a hand holding obvious cast time.... no cast times require more strategy and observation than cast times.
And now the attacker will have to use his brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and land their ults.
This change does not make it more or less difficult to play the game, it just shifts the difficulty from the defender to the attacker.
I'll explain it again. Try going on live and use any of these ultimates without canceling them. It will be the same as it is on PTS.
No it wont. 400ms cast time on PTS, none on live.Now have someone use them on you and try to block them as soon as you see the animation. Spoiler: you won't be able to cause by the time you react it will have already happened to you.
Even with some lag, you will have enough time to react and block an ult with 400ms cast time.
4 -
Xogath✭✭✭If cast times on Ultimates are going to stay, then every Ultimate in this game needs to follow the formula of Incapacitating Strike and have some sort of passive bonus tied to it for slotting it.
For instance, Stamblades get Minor Reave.. okay, fits the class and is a nice little bonus.
Dawnbreaker should retain at least a small weapon damage bonus, or perhaps an overall damage increase against Daedric targets, making it worth slotting now in Daedra-heavy situations.
Other Ultimates should also have minor passive bonuses added to them simply for slotting them, that fit the theme of the ability itself. (And CLASS if it's a class-based Ultimate.)
In lieu of that.. making the combat system clunky, or slowing down combat so it's "more friendly" for new players would be the number one way to alienate probably 75% of your playerbase to the point that they will leave.
I used to be against animation cancelling myself, simply because I was bad at it. Then I got good at it (enough for PvE, anyway), and enjoy it; it makes combat in this game fun, and really stand out.
Dumbing down this game's major features the same way WoW did will only hurt your sales.Edited by Xogath on July 11, 2019 6:21AM5 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »I think they should add MORE cast time to other Ultimate abilities as well. So many have clearly relied on their crutch for so long and now that it's being taken away, they are struggling. It's time to actually use Ultimate abilities in a strategic way, not as an animation-cancelled spammable.
what are you even talking about?. Animation canceling ults/abilities makes the game harder in pvp not easier. You actually have to use your brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and dodge their ults as opposed to a hand holding obvious cast time.... no cast times require more strategy and observation than cast times.
And now the attacker will have to use his brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and land their ults.
This change does not make it more or less difficult to play the game, it just shifts the difficulty from the defender to the attacker.
I'll explain it again. Try going on live and use any of these ultimates without canceling them. It will be the same as it is on PTS.
No it wont. 400ms cast time on PTS, none on live.Now have someone use them on you and try to block them as soon as you see the animation. Spoiler: you won't be able to cause by the time you react it will have already happened to you.
Even with some lag, you will have enough time to react and block an ult with 400ms cast time.
No you won't, I've tested it and you are welcome to do the same. Just try to block any of these ultimates as soon as you see their animation. If you don't cancel the ultimate on live it's the same as they are on PTS. Doesn't have to do with lag, unless you're lagging horribly, it's because of how the game is designed. That's why stuff go through dodge roll very often etc. Cast times won't be as effective as you imagine them to be.Edited by Trian94 on July 11, 2019 6:29AMPC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn0 -
Burtan✭✭✭✭Cast times have no place in this game and only serve as a source of frustration since abilities with cast times often fail to fire or have huge delay under the usual daily lag of primetime Cyrodiil.
Please revert this change for the sake of reliable and enjoyable combat.Edited by Burtan on July 11, 2019 8:05AM7 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »I think they should add MORE cast time to other Ultimate abilities as well. So many have clearly relied on their crutch for so long and now that it's being taken away, they are struggling. It's time to actually use Ultimate abilities in a strategic way, not as an animation-cancelled spammable.
what are you even talking about?. Animation canceling ults/abilities makes the game harder in pvp not easier. You actually have to use your brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and dodge their ults as opposed to a hand holding obvious cast time.... no cast times require more strategy and observation than cast times.
And now the attacker will have to use his brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and land their ults.
This change does not make it more or less difficult to play the game, it just shifts the difficulty from the defender to the attacker.
I'll explain it again. Try going on live and use any of these ultimates without canceling them. It will be the same as it is on PTS.
No it wont. 400ms cast time on PTS, none on live.Now have someone use them on you and try to block them as soon as you see the animation. Spoiler: you won't be able to cause by the time you react it will have already happened to you.
Even with some lag, you will have enough time to react and block an ult with 400ms cast time.
No you won't, I've tested it and you are welcome to do the same. Just try to block any of these ultimates as soon as you see their animation. If you don't cancel the ultimate on live it's the same as they are on PTS
It is NOT the same.
On live, the damage happens as soon as you use the ability, and the animation is just for show. There is no time to react, because when you see the animation, the damage has already happened.
On PTS, damage happens when the animation completes. That means if you see the animation, there is still time to react and prevent the coming damage. It even says so in the patch notes: "These abilities cannot be interrupted, and canceling them or being stopped while casting them will not consume your Ultimate"
That means the damage happens at the END of the cast, as opposed to in the beginning, like on live (otherwise you could just cancel the DBoS over and over, doing damage without losing ultimate).Edited by Sharee on July 11, 2019 6:31AM3 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Animation cancelling or not I don't care, be consistent ZOS! Soul Tether, Leap, Crescent, Berserker. Come on, if you're going to ruin the game for us, ruin it for all of us.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.6 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »I think they should add MORE cast time to other Ultimate abilities as well. So many have clearly relied on their crutch for so long and now that it's being taken away, they are struggling. It's time to actually use Ultimate abilities in a strategic way, not as an animation-cancelled spammable.
what are you even talking about?. Animation canceling ults/abilities makes the game harder in pvp not easier. You actually have to use your brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and dodge their ults as opposed to a hand holding obvious cast time.... no cast times require more strategy and observation than cast times.
And now the attacker will have to use his brain and find patterns in players in order to effectively predict and land their ults.
This change does not make it more or less difficult to play the game, it just shifts the difficulty from the defender to the attacker.
I'll explain it again. Try going on live and use any of these ultimates without canceling them. It will be the same as it is on PTS.
No it wont. 400ms cast time on PTS, none on live.Now have someone use them on you and try to block them as soon as you see the animation. Spoiler: you won't be able to cause by the time you react it will have already happened to you.
Even with some lag, you will have enough time to react and block an ult with 400ms cast time.
No you won't, I've tested it and you are welcome to do the same. Just try to block any of these ultimates as soon as you see their animation. If you don't cancel the ultimate on live it's the same as they are on PTS
It is NOT the same.
On live, the damage happens as soon as you use the ability, and the animation is just for show. There is no time to react, because when you see the animation, the damage has already happened.
On PTS, damage happens when the animation completes. That means if you see the animation, there is still time to react and prevent the coming damage. It even says so in the patch notes: "These abilities cannot be interrupted, and canceling them or being stopped while casting them will not consume your Ultimate"
That means the damage happens at the END of the cast, as opposed to in the beginning, like on live (otherwise you could just cancel the DBoS over and over, doing damage without losing ultimate).
Omg, on live the DMG happens as soon as the ability connects so it's slightly faster If you cancel it. I'm certain that PTS or live you won't be able to block in time cause of the way this game is designed. But let's say you're right, then EVERYTHING should work similarly, light attacks, all abilities, everything. That, though, DOESN'T BELONG in a game that encourages fast gameplay and DOESN'T HAVE cooldowns on abilities. It would just make it stiff and awkward.Edited by Trian94 on July 11, 2019 7:01AMPC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn3 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think adding minor cast time to some skills isnt bad idea. As far as i know it was before on dawnbreaker (until that glowing sword dissapeared, damage was lock behind animation)1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ELDER CHESS ONLINE - because with great power comes time to react.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vortigaunt wrote: »
He’s zerging on PC EU, nuff saidWillhelmBlack wrote: »Stop whining
L2P
U OK hun? xPC EU0 -
Vortigaunt✭✭✭JackDaniell wrote: »Cast time is bad for eso, this game is fun because of how it feels to play. Dont take that away please ZOS.Who sat down and thought "hey you know what we should do? Make combat feel like crap."
Genius!
^^^^^^^
I thought we all agreed that cast times are bad for eso after the disaster with shields in nerfmire, which ended up buffing them into oblivion (and instead of reverting that change you just make shields worse this patch SMH). Have you seriously learned nothing from history?
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler2 -
Trian94✭✭✭✭Glad you tagged them (even for the wrong topic) because now they might see that people don't want cast times on Ultimates in this gamePC EU
Stamina Socerer main - Northam Stormborn0 -
d3adpain✭✭✭well zos dont got it for the 66875986 time no one want cast times cause its ruins combat3
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Kronuxx✭✭✭✭Agree. Get rid of the cast times. In PTS combat feels extremely clunky and less fluid. Animation canceling is not hard to learn. Please revert the changes. Those who don't learn it make the conscious decision not to because they are lazy of mind.Edited by Kronuxx on July 11, 2019 9:28AM5
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Vortigaunt✭✭✭Nobody wants cast times in the game, we all agreed that they're bad for the overall feel of the combat MULTIPLE times before
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »
Everyone wanting everything to happen immediately is horrible.
It destroys the fluidity of combat,and is a slippery slope.2 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just spent an hour in PTS.
OK, so I didn't try CP PvP.
but AFAIK, I don't think 400-500ms really makes a difference.
My Berserker/Onslaught and DBS feels just as natural. Maybe because I don't really do animation cancelling on ulti?
where and how are you guys testing this to say it's now really awkward etc.?
go on live and try doing a dizzy>db>block
then go on pts and try the same thing
if you look at time stamps you will lose about a second and a half in your rotation due to the db now acting like a clunky dizzy swing. Not only will this make it as simple to counter as dizzy swing, but any 5 second buffs that you got before your rotation are almost guaranteed to be over by the time your going into execute rotations
It is sad, but the recent patches are really pushing players to just run dots anyways so skill and this cast time wont really matter too much for most people
like i said, i don't do animation cancelling on ulti (probably coz 9 out of 10 times the ulti i used is DK Leap) ..... but i will try it!August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber1 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Animation cancelling or not I don't care, be consistent ZOS! Soul Tether, Leap, Crescent, Berserker. Come on, if you're going to ruin the game for us, ruin it for all of us.
berserker does get cast time...
....and feel free to add cast time to DK Leap. the only people that'll suffer are the few 1vX who use Leap in 0-range.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0
