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PLEASE, stop this before its too late! (Vigor)
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templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.Edited by templesus on July 8, 2019 2:44PM14 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »I really don’t understand the buffs to Vigor. It was already a very very very strong healing ability. And now it’s healing was increased and the cost at the same time drastically reduced?
Probably to give stamina comparable survivability to magicka since magicka not only has very powerful heals, but damage shields to go with it. The changes to vigor are balanced considering the recent changes to Rapid Regen/mutagen.Edited by Strider__Roshin on July 8, 2019 2:47PM6 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
Exactly. This isn't difficult comprehend.6 -
GloryClass RepresentativeThere are already groups who run stacked vigor, so I don't understand the point of this post.Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
All stamina actually has access to two very strong shields next patch:- Bone Shield & Morphs
- Defensive Posture & Morphs
Both of these skills are very strong, and I expect to see Defensive Posture (Absorb Missile) being a thing in PvP.Edited by Glory on July 8, 2019 3:05PMmDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock6 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There are already groups who run stacked vigor, so I don't understand the point of this post.Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
All stamina actually has access to two very strong shields next patch:- Bone Shield & Morphs
- Defensive Posture & Morphs
Both of these skills are very strong, and I expect to see Defensive Posture (Absorb Missile) being a thing in PvP.
A 15% max health damage shield is not strong.9 -
jbjondeaueb17_ESO✭✭✭✭There's one big difference between the single target Vigor and Regeneration : you're 100% sure the first one will be applied on the caster, good luck being sure to proc Regeneration on you if you're not completely alone.Pain-Healer - Argonian Templar Healer (EP) - Immortal Redeemer - Gryphon's Heart
Guild : Ghosts and Goblins Target Dummies
Players know me as Jeban12 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »There's one big difference between the single target Vigor and Regeneration : you're 100% sure the first one will be applied on the caster, good luck being sure to proc Regeneration on you if you're not completely alone.
Well for starters you should be using mutagen, and second I never have this issue because I'm not a zergling. If you're traveling with so many people that this becomes a concern then you'll have no pity from me.5 -
GloryClass RepresentativeThere are already groups who run stacked vigor, so I don't understand the point of this post.Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
All stamina actually has access to two very strong shields next patch:- Bone Shield & Morphs
- Defensive Posture & Morphs
Both of these skills are very strong, and I expect to see Defensive Posture (Absorb Missile) being a thing in PvP.
A 15% max health damage shield is not strong.
That's because those shields do other things, such as:- Increases block mitigation/cost reduction OR
- Heals you for a ton on absorbing a skill, also eliminating the damage from a projectile;
- Returns damage to the enemy & gives huge group shield OR
- Gives huge group shield and major vitality
Considering magic shields are anywhere from 5-10k in strength, and most don't do anything significant outside of providing shielding (exception being Harness, which is no longer going to be a hard carry next patch), this disparity makes a bit of sense, no?
Examples of popular magic based shields & whether they provide additional utility:- Sorcerer Hardened/Empowered Ward: seeing a nerf next patch (both in cost and in strength), provides Minor Intellect.
- Dampen/Harness: both seeing size nerfs, Harness seeing heavy nerf to sustain. Provides magicka sustain with harness, otherwise no utility
- Templar Blazing/Radiant: Damage return for radiant on cast, damage return on explosion for blazing. Scale on health, and scale similarly to the %s seen on stamina shields.
- Ward Ally/Healing Ward: Ward Ally shield starts with lower shield than an expected 15% health shield. Scales up based on missing health, healing ward will now heal over time based on remaining strength (if it sticks)/ward ally can shield another ally.
I bet we will see similar shield strengths (at least in PvP) between stamina shields and magicka shields, considering all the shield size decreases this incoming patch. And the utility compared are similar.mDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock5 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There are already groups who run stacked vigor, so I don't understand the point of this post.Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
All stamina actually has access to two very strong shields next patch:- Bone Shield & Morphs
- Defensive Posture & Morphs
Both of these skills are very strong, and I expect to see Defensive Posture (Absorb Missile) being a thing in PvP.
A 15% max health damage shield is not strong.
That's because those shields do other things, such as:- Increases block mitigation/cost reduction OR
- Heals you for a ton on absorbing a skill, also eliminating the damage from a projectile;
- Returns damage to the enemy & gives huge group shield OR
- Gives huge group shield and major vitality
Considering magic shields are anywhere from 5-10k in strength, and most don't do anything significant outside of providing shielding (exception being Harness, which is no longer going to be a hard carry next patch), this disparity makes a bit of sense, no?
Examples of popular magic based shields & whether they provide additional utility:- Sorcerer Hardened/Empowered Ward: seeing a nerf next patch (both in cost and in strength), provides Minor Intellect.
- Dampen/Harness: both seeing size nerfs, Harness seeing heavy nerf to sustain. Provides magicka sustain with harness, otherwise no utility
- Templar Blazing/Radiant: Damage return for radiant on cast, damage return on explosion for blazing. Scale on health, and scale similarly to the %s seen on stamina shields.
- Ward Ally/Healing Ward: Ward Ally shield starts with lower shield than an expected 15% health shield. Scales up based on missing health, healing ward will now heal over time based on remaining strength (if it sticks)/ward ally can shield another ally.
I bet we will see similar shield strengths (at least in PvP) between stamina shields and magicka shields, considering all the shield size decreases this incoming patch. And the utility compared are similar.
If you think defensive posture will be similar shield strength to dampen magic....I don’t even know how to give that a genuine response.6 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are already groups who run stacked vigor, so I don't understand the point of this post.Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
All stamina actually has access to two very strong shields next patch:- Bone Shield & Morphs
- Defensive Posture & Morphs
Both of these skills are very strong, and I expect to see Defensive Posture (Absorb Missile) being a thing in PvP.
Vigor can only stack once. One vigor from you and one from an Ally. You cant have more then one vigor from an ally on youself.
And that vigor from an ally was maybe a 600-900 hot. Not a big deal tho.
Most stam builds will run resolving vigor. Maybe some will use the aoe one but i dont think it will get used that often.
Buff to vigor is needed due to momentum loosing its hot. Nothing much will change Here.4 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭for those censored who has censored and don't get what this is about i can clarify it
VIGOR is stamina heal. that means NEGATE cannot remove it. because it is stamina skill
now imagine an organized group with dedicated vigor healers. right now, negate was one way to destroy these groups (along with damage because negate alone isn't enough) but that can change if vigor is even stronger as it is now
buffing vigor which heals more targets is a mistake. let it be the same as it is now on live. buff only self-heal morph if you need0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭new changes to VIGOR, and its recent buffs (dot buff) can change pvp balance more than ever.
i am talking about that AOE heal version. with its current potency (on pts 5.1.0), this can make mass stacked groups completely invulnerable to all counters, like negate
this game is mass pvp, sure, but it should not be MASS STACKED pvp
It is PVP skill, so it should be PVP balanced. with recent changes, Magicka healers become weaker, but spin2win-healers may occur without any way to stop their heals
Make this right and fix it before its too late.
Stacked groups are not negatable anyway, in the case of Warden groups. Every half decent PvP Stam Warden is able to switch roles from DD to Healer in an instant.
Secondly, you confused the vigor types: The group heal vigor stays roughly as it is hps- wise, only the self heal one is being buffed.
Of course, you will have groups stacking vigor, boneshield, and barrier, but we had this Meta already 4 years ago, so nothing new here.
Equip Inevitable Deto, and you´ll be fine.
Vigor: Adhered this ability to our single target HoT standards.
Vigor and Resolving Vigor now only heal the caster.
Increased the duration to 10 seconds from 5 seconds, but decreased the tick frequency to 2 seconds from 1 second.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 85%.
Reduced the cost to 2295 from 3511.
Resolving Vigor (morph): This morph doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Echoing Vigor (morph): This morph reintroduces the Area of Effect healing capability, healing up to 6 allies in a 15 meter radius.2 -
BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
Exactly. This isn't difficult comprehend.
Sure it is on several levels. One stamina gets a 2-for-1. They only have to spam a single, really, really cheap HoT. A shield needs to be spammed every 6 secs and then probably needs to throw in an RR. Stam only needs to spam Vigor every 10 secs. Stam can overlap their Vigors getting a 4-for-1.. Does "logic" dictate that two Magicka next to each other can "combine" their shields? Does logic dicate that the cost to cast a shield should be as cheap as Vigor? RR requires a magicka toon to bar a Resto, does your high school curriculum dicate that Vigor should be moved to S&B and a stam toon should be required to bar swap to have a shield equiped to cast Vigor.
To me, logic dicates that arguably pound for pount the best HoT heal in the game should not be one reserved for stamina toons.6 -
Jim6270✭✭People simes to forget that Two-handed buff will no longer have a HoT on it so if Vigor was not stronger no stam character whould be able to sovive in PvP ..... this Vigor change is made so the balance is still there and so you need other forms of healing insted of the two-handed. Making other setups (duelwield/bow, One hand and shield/bow, one hand and shield/duelwield) okay to use again because you dont have to use the two-handed buff anymore if you dont want to.
Thats the only real change and thats why Vigor simes buffed for the single person.3 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wanna nerf you and please stop you badly. L2fp.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions1 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Increased the duration to 10 seconds from 5 seconds, but decreased the tick frequency to 2 seconds from 1 second.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 85%.
Reduced the cost to 2295 from 3511.
Echoing Vigor (morph): This morph reintroduces the Area of Effect healing capability, healing up to 6 allies in a 15 meter radius.
To be precise
Edited by Thraben on July 8, 2019 4:50PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Increased the duration to 10 seconds from 5 seconds, but decreased the tick frequency to 2 seconds from 1 second.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 85%.
Echoing Vigor (morph): This morph reintroduces the Area of Effect healing capability, healing up to 6 allies in a 15 meter radius.
To be precise.
You realize on the AoE version they reduced the frequency to 2 seconds from 1 sec essentially nerfing the hps by 100% before they buffed it by 85% resulting in a 15% nerf to the hps of that morph compared to live, right? Resolving grabbed a buff due to needing to put things more in line with mag survivability, the AOE comp loss, and the loss of rally over time heal and nerf to burst heal especially when used together.Edited by Wuuffyy on July 8, 2019 5:30PMWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions3 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are already groups who run stacked vigor, so I don't understand the point of this post.Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
All stamina actually has access to two very strong shields next patch:- Bone Shield & Morphs
- Defensive Posture & Morphs
Both of these skills are very strong, and I expect to see Defensive Posture (Absorb Missile) being a thing in PvP.
Lol what? You are kidding. New vigor plus roll is equivalent of mag shield plus face tank. Nothing more. Only difference is that vigor can't be spammed.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions4 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
Exactly. This isn't difficult comprehend.
Of course, all the Stamina supremacists are in agreement
You don't need a high school education to notice that knuckle-dragging [snip] have been crutching on overpowered Vigor for years, and it's only going to get worse with this patch. Vigor allows your builds to go on the offensive for several seconds without worrying about defense. Magicka damage shields, on the other hand, are lucky to last one GCD, and they just got nerfed even more.
[Edit for bait.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on July 15, 2019 7:10PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE11 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
Exactly. This isn't difficult comprehend.
Of course, all the Stamina supremacists are in agreement
You don't need a high school education to notice that knuckle-dragging [snip] have been crutching on overpowered Vigor for years, and it's only going to get worse with this patch. Vigor allows your builds to go on the offensive for several seconds without worrying about defense. Magicka damage shields, on the other hand, are lucky to last one GCD, and they just got nerfed even more.
[Edit for bait.]
Like how sorcs crutched on ward and magblades dampen?Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on July 15, 2019 7:10PMWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions4 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is there someone hwo actually loged on PTS to see if resolving vigor got a 15% nerf or a 85% buff?0 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Increased the duration to 10 seconds from 5 seconds, but decreased the tick frequency to 2 seconds from 1 second.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 85%.
Echoing Vigor (morph): This morph reintroduces the Area of Effect healing capability, healing up to 6 allies in a 15 meter radius.
To be precise.
You realize on the AoE version they reduced the frequency to 2 seconds from 1 sec essentially nerfing the hps by 100% before they buffed it by 85% resulting in a 15% need to the hps of that morph compared to live, right?
Good, a start at least. Now bring the effects of the medium armor into the equation (which is the reduced incoming healing, but increased outgoing healing and healing crit chance).
I think they were too lazy to calculate exact numbers, too, and so they came up with those 15%.Edited by Thraben on July 8, 2019 5:18PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Increased the duration to 10 seconds from 5 seconds, but decreased the tick frequency to 2 seconds from 1 second.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 85%.
Echoing Vigor (morph): This morph reintroduces the Area of Effect healing capability, healing up to 6 allies in a 15 meter radius.
To be precise.
You realize on the AoE version they reduced the frequency to 2 seconds from 1 sec essentially nerfing the hps by 100% before they buffed it by 85% resulting in a 15% nerf to the hps of that morph compared to live, right? Resolving grabbed a buff due to needing to put things more in line with mag survivability, the AOE comp loss, and the loss of rally over time heal and nerf to burst heal especially when used together.
hps maybe was nerfed, but now all you need is to cast very cheap skill and have healing up for 10 seconds. in this case, as you said, hps was nerfed by 15% but duration was increased by 100% and cost decreased by 35% (135% cost decrease if you count old 5s duration)
still ok?Edited by Anyron on July 9, 2019 9:42AM0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rapid regen is just as strong as new vigor, what's the issue here?Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.3 -
DODHitman✭✭✭vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....
RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....
Yeah they are really close lmfao.....
Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.Eager' Skeaver
AD-NA/PC | HighElf Sorc. V16 - Magicka Sorc 4Life!
Guilds: Fantasia - ETU
R.I.P. Dominion Mafia
Two rules to live by:
Stay on Crown - Stay out of the Red8 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
I guess you need more than "a basic High School education" to understand dodge and block are proactive forms of stamina defense that magicka can use only very sparingly, relying instead on healing and damage shields. Logic is really easy to see.9 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Rapid regen is just as strong as new vigor, what's the issue here?
Rapid Regen goes to whoever it decides to target. You have to spam it several times to get to target the caster, it can be very difficult to get your own RR. Unless they have updated the smart targeting. But there was no indication of that in the patch notes. Vigor is guaranteed to apply to the caster 100% of the time.5 -
Nightingale707✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »You realize on the AoE version they reduced the frequency to 2 seconds from 1 sec essentially nerfing the hps by 100% before they buffed it by 85% resulting in a 15% nerf to the hps of that morph compared to live, right? Resolving grabbed a buff due to needing to put things more in line with mag survivability, the AOE comp loss, and the loss of rally over time heal and nerf to burst heal especially when used together.
the reduced tick rate doesn´t nerf the heal, it just means you get a bigger heal every 2 sec...
on a PvE character with CP and major mending you get a vigor tootltip of 40k over 10sec, that is an 8k heal every 2 sec... and we tested it, 2 of those stack... making it 8k heal every secound/16k heal every 2 secEdited by Nightingale707 on July 9, 2019 11:16AM1
