Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

Nevermind pvp for a second what did happen to the air atronach we were promised? Fearturbo practically said it publicly he was so sure it was happening.

Do you have a proof of that? As far as I know nobody promised anything to anyone.

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

Stam sorc literally has been stripped down layer after layer for way too many patches now. Give stam sorc SOMETHING for once.

For those who need SOMETHING, ZOS have already added stamina scaling for Streak in this patch. Or is it the wrong "something"?

Why would I want the skill I only use for a CC and mobility to scale with anything? If you are saying it should be used in some kind of offensive capacity why would I want to use an ability that costs magicka when I'm a stam build. That change is literally useless and whoever wasted the Dev's time with the idea should be kicked out of the rep program.

Yea, just as I thought. ZOS gave you SOMETHING and you say it is wrong and useless. Also they gave you Dark Deal and Hurricane cost reduction, source of Major Vitality, Amplitude and Persistence - and you are still not happy. And probably you will never be.

With the negligible DPS difference between Stamsorc and other Stamina classes, such as Stamblade, in relation to PvE content, I don't expect ZOS to adjust Sorc's toolkit to incorporate new stamina skills for StamSorc. They might do more skills that scale on either Max Stamina/Magic like they did with Streak but that's all I see happening realistically

If ZOS wants to do this with more class skills, than things like Crit modifiers, CP, etc absolutely need to be changed so that double scaling skills gain full benefits from all these factors. Then, there's the resource cost associated with these skills as well (Streak still costs magic to use on a Stam build).

Idk, ZOS seems to have back themselves into a corner with all this double scaling. We'll just have to see what happens further down the line with CP adjustments and if other factors are introduced in the future.

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

Nevermind pvp for a second what did happen to the air atronach we were promised? Fearturbo practically said it publicly he was so sure it was happening.

Do you have a proof of that? As far as I know nobody promised anything to anyone.

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

Stam sorc literally has been stripped down layer after layer for way too many patches now. Give stam sorc SOMETHING for once.

For those who need SOMETHING, ZOS have already added stamina scaling for Streak in this patch. Or is it the wrong "something"?

Why would I want the skill I only use for a CC and mobility to scale with anything? If you are saying it should be used in some kind of offensive capacity why would I want to use an ability that costs magicka when I'm a stam build. That change is literally useless and whoever wasted the Dev's time with the idea should be kicked out of the rep program.

Yea, just as I thought. ZOS gave you SOMETHING and you say it is wrong and useless. Also they gave you Dark Deal and Hurricane cost reduction, source of Major Vitality, Amplitude and Persistence - and you are still not happy. And probably you will never be.

I guess you don't actually play stam sorc so let me try to explain this for you to create context. The cost reduction on hurricane and dark deal still leave it with less sustain than the original dark deal nerf. Due to the nature of having to wait for half the return on dark deal you have less burst sustain and the cost reduction of those two skills some-what attempt to balance that out.

Amplitude is a far cry for a replacement for implosion, they didn't just throw it onto the kit as a happy little bonus. They took away arguably the most potent part of a stam sorc's arsenal in implosion. In pvp raid the justification for having a stam sorc was literally implosion to secure kills. Now that's gone and amplitude does not come close to replacing it. While it makes for funny 2h ult moments, it is not at all going to keep my place in the raid group. Whether it's even a DPS increase over implosion for PvE I'm not even sure.

Major vitality, oh I thought no one would ever bring this up, but yes thank you for reminding me about the skill that costs almost 4k magicka to give a paltry moment of major vitality unless under very specific conditions. Which by the way you expect me to use in conjunction with all the other magicka skills you want me to use like streak. You were helpful in bringing up the cost reduction of two other skills if you want me to use that we better start talking about a third.

All in all it's not what I wanted, it's not what anyone wanted. They were poorly thought ideas by people with either lack of experience or knowledge on stam sorc.

Too many magicka cost skills for stam sorc to use and too little magicka pool to afford.

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

I guess you don't actually play stam sorc so let me try to explain this for you to create context. The cost reduction on hurricane and dark deal still leave it with less sustain than the original dark deal nerf. Due to the nature of having to wait for half the return on dark deal you have less burst sustain and the cost reduction of those two skills some-what attempt to balance that out.

Amplitude is a far cry for a replacement for implosion, they didn't just throw it onto the kit as a happy little bonus. They took away arguably the most potent part of a stam sorc's arsenal in implosion. In pvp raid the justification for having a stam sorc was literally implosion to secure kills. Now that's gone and amplitude does not come close to replacing it. While it makes for funny 2h ult moments, it is not at all going to keep my place in the raid group. Whether it's even a DPS increase over implosion for PvE I'm not even sure.

Major vitality, oh I thought no one would ever bring this up, but yes thank you for reminding me about the skill that costs almost 4k magicka to give a paltry moment of major vitality unless under very specific conditions. Which by the way you expect me to use in conjunction with all the other magicka skills you want me to use like streak. You were helpful in bringing up the cost reduction of two other skills if you want me to use that we better start talking about a third.

All in all it's not what I wanted, it's not what anyone wanted. They were poorly thought ideas by people with either lack of experience or knowledge on stam sorc.

And again "ZOS did everything wrong":

• Improved sustain for the class that already has one of the best sustain in pvp
• Reworked a random passive execute with a low threshold, which did not make a real impact in the outcome of the fight, and made another passive with constant damage boost
• Added one of the rarest strong buff to already good ability (which you forgot), and added another unique sustain passive (which you also forgot)

Now they gave you damage to the ability which is good even w/o any buffs. What else? Stamina curse with stamina shard? It will destroy the class identity but you still will not be enough

Ladislao wrote: »

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

I guess you don't actually play stam sorc so let me try to explain this for you to create context. The cost reduction on hurricane and dark deal still leave it with less sustain than the original dark deal nerf. Due to the nature of having to wait for half the return on dark deal you have less burst sustain and the cost reduction of those two skills some-what attempt to balance that out.

Amplitude is a far cry for a replacement for implosion, they didn't just throw it onto the kit as a happy little bonus. They took away arguably the most potent part of a stam sorc's arsenal in implosion. In pvp raid the justification for having a stam sorc was literally implosion to secure kills. Now that's gone and amplitude does not come close to replacing it. While it makes for funny 2h ult moments, it is not at all going to keep my place in the raid group. Whether it's even a DPS increase over implosion for PvE I'm not even sure.

Major vitality, oh I thought no one would ever bring this up, but yes thank you for reminding me about the skill that costs almost 4k magicka to give a paltry moment of major vitality unless under very specific conditions. Which by the way you expect me to use in conjunction with all the other magicka skills you want me to use like streak. You were helpful in bringing up the cost reduction of two other skills if you want me to use that we better start talking about a third.

All in all it's not what I wanted, it's not what anyone wanted. They were poorly thought ideas by people with either lack of experience or knowledge on stam sorc.

And again "ZOS did everything wrong":

• Improved sustain for the class that already has one of the best sustain in pvp
• Reworked a random passive execute with a low threshold, which did not make a real impact in the outcome of the fight, and made another passive with constant damage boost
• Added one of the rarest strong buff to already good ability (which you forgot), and added another unique sustain passive (which you also forgot)

Now they gave you damage to the ability which is good even w/o any buffs. What else? Stamina curse with stamina shard? It will destroy the class identity but you still will not be enough

All your arguments lead me to the idea that either you do not fully reveal the potential of the class, or the class does not suit you. Friendly advice - instead of trying to make stamina sorcerer another generic class, try to play other classes, maybe you will like them more. No offense.

Stamina sorcerer is a strong class that relies on weapons and uses class abilities as a utility. There is no reason to change the class identity or buff it even more.
Sure, it is just another personal opinion of stamina sorcerer player. But judging by ZOS decisions, my opinion largely overlaps with their vision.

I personally would trade amplitude for implusion at any t8me without a second thought. Helped a lot killing people and putting preasure.

Dark deal is iteruptable though risk and reward. Cast time is death sentance if you fight zergs or experianced players.

Regarding thr buff you speak of, I really don't know what skill you talk about.

Ladislao wrote: »

Sure, it is just another personal opinion of stamina sorcerer player. But judging by ZOS decisions, my opinion largely overlaps with their vision.

Given ZOS track record I don't really know if that statement is of any value.

universal_wrath wrote: »

Regarding thr buff you speak of, I really don't know what skill you talk about.

He speaks of "Persistance" - cost reduction after blocking.


If it makes sense to get these (sometimes token like [streak]) buffs to wishi washi what little class theme they had is questionable. Hurricane, Surge, Implosion had a great synergy - now all Hurricane does is to make sure I never see that 10% Amplitude buff. Lowering the gap between "mobile" and "immobile" classes but giving 2 buffs to block might be nice for tanks but it doesn't add anything to the theme as well.

Ladislao wrote: »

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

I guess you don't actually play stam sorc so let me try to explain this for you to create context. The cost reduction on hurricane and dark deal still leave it with less sustain than the original dark deal nerf. Due to the nature of having to wait for half the return on dark deal you have less burst sustain and the cost reduction of those two skills some-what attempt to balance that out.

Amplitude is a far cry for a replacement for implosion, they didn't just throw it onto the kit as a happy little bonus. They took away arguably the most potent part of a stam sorc's arsenal in implosion. In pvp raid the justification for having a stam sorc was literally implosion to secure kills. Now that's gone and amplitude does not come close to replacing it. While it makes for funny 2h ult moments, it is not at all going to keep my place in the raid group. Whether it's even a DPS increase over implosion for PvE I'm not even sure.

Major vitality, oh I thought no one would ever bring this up, but yes thank you for reminding me about the skill that costs almost 4k magicka to give a paltry moment of major vitality unless under very specific conditions. Which by the way you expect me to use in conjunction with all the other magicka skills you want me to use like streak. You were helpful in bringing up the cost reduction of two other skills if you want me to use that we better start talking about a third.

All in all it's not what I wanted, it's not what anyone wanted. They were poorly thought ideas by people with either lack of experience or knowledge on stam sorc.

And again "ZOS did everything wrong":

• Improved sustain for the class that already has one of the best sustain in pvp
• Reworked a random passive execute with a low threshold, which did not make a real impact in the outcome of the fight, and made another passive with constant damage boost
• Added one of the rarest strong buff to already good ability (which you forgot), and added another unique sustain passive (which you also forgot)

Now they gave you damage to the ability which is good even w/o any buffs. What else? Stamina curse with stamina shard? It will destroy the class identity but you still will not be enough

All your arguments lead me to the idea that either you do not fully reveal the potential of the class, or the class does not suit you. Friendly advice - instead of trying to make stamina sorcerer another generic class, try to play other classes, maybe you will like them more. No offense.

Stamina sorcerer is a strong class that relies on weapons and uses class abilities as a utility. There is no reason to change the class identity or buff it even more.
Sure, it is just another personal opinion of stamina sorcerer player. But judging by ZOS decisions, my opinion largely overlaps with their vision.

I would rather have my stam sorc the way it was a year ago. I take implosion over amplitude any day as well as higher cost on those two skills over the nerf to dark deal. And the rest of the "buffs" are...
Im too tried to even explain

It is over for this patch guys pack it up. TIME FOR NEXT!!! Well no next one is passives, no actives. NEXT NEXT patch for sure guys!!!

Jeezye wrote: »

ilcavallo wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

ilcavallo wrote: »

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

I know right? lol But let's nerf dizzy and shrouded daggers! Sometimes I wonder if the class reps have only ever played a magsorc

Oh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?


We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.

I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.


But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.

So a 14% nerf to uppercut is not a nerf as you can weave LAs faster?? I don’t blame class reps cause they have no decisional power, but saying that uppercut wasn’t nerfed shows only that you probably don’t use the skill in pvp. Just read the thread “uppercut nerf was a mistake” and you’ll understand.

Yeah. It's a nerf to the 2H minority that makes no sense and clearly an indirect nerf to stamsorcs.

This is straight ignorance from people that clearly lack the big picture. Reducing the cast time itself goes huge places in actually landing the skill, especially in laggy environments. I bet everyone crying here has never logged in once to actually test changes.

Furthermore, the reduced delay of 0.2 sec makes your skills hit WAY faster, and increases your overall burst and reduces counterplay of your opponents. Your kill pressure doesn’t come from the dizzy damage itself anyways, but from the follow up attack that you’re way more likely to hit now.

And if you’re one of the dizzing non-weaving spammers, I can only say git gud. Very healthy change for competent players.

You are literally one of the only people on the forums that actually think that way. Everyone else is ignorant. I guess that makes you special.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/469623/uppercut-change-is-a-mistake#latest

Just throw stam sorc a *** bone and give them a curse that does physical damage. Something like shalks and Pol
Curse+HA+uppercut+DB+execute

Stamina Sorcerer isn't in a terrible spot but as someone that has mained sorc for a few years here is a couple things they could really use.

-20% stamina and health recovery without slotting bound armaments.
(I personally feel starved for skill slots when double slotting bound armaments. The passives feel too good to let go but with the nerf to dark deal and overload third bar I am forced to choose between the utility of 2 skill slots or raw stats. Not throwing NB under the bus but they get 15% regen to all stats without having to lose 2 skill slots and the storc passive could be brought up to this level; their sustain isn't great to begin with without spamming DD. Also the bound armaments active ability is absolute garbage. If this was reworked to something actually useful a may not feel so bad about double slotting the skill.)

-more passives that benefit stam builds
(The paragraph above would be huge and would be happy with just this. Anyone that has played stam sorc knows that almost the entirety of 2 entire skill lines go unused for both passives and skills.)

-some kind of stam attack
(I know I'm beating a dead horse with this one but, my current bar setup has a total of 3 sorc skills not including bound armaments. The weapon skills I have slotted get the job done but they don't feel good to use. My melee brawler is throwing knives at his enemies and doing 360's. A proposition that wouldn't affect mag builds would be to make one of the iconic sorc skills [frags, curse, wrath] scale off of max stats. We honestly don't need a lot but one of these would be huge for class identity. Right now it's pretty much hurricane (nerfed), dark deal (nerfed), and occasionally crit surge (nerfed) if you can even manage the bar space for it. That being said the streak change is something I'm really looking forward to trying out but in its current state it's a good mag dump for stam builds and I'm worried that the change will make my already poor stamina sustain worse than it is now.)

Feanor wrote: »

My dear stamina brethren, ZOS has heard of your woes and finally salvaged them. 5.0.3. holds wonderful changes. They’re just wrongfully labeled under the category „Nightblade“.

Well, it wonders me how the announced "look into counterplay for mag builds" will turn out. Probably marking silence as a hard CC and again giving an indirect nerf to stam sorcs pvp utility?

But in all honesty, this "class balance patch" is a joke. Looking at the stam side of Wardens, Necros, Nightblades just leaves me in utter disbelieve. I really got a second breath for this game after I took a break during Murkmire but somwhere between this blatantly obvious neglect, inconsideration, alibi buffs and indirect nerfs I start to feel uneasy about it again.

Icky wrote: »

I've recently seen a massive influx of stam sorcs in pvp. Last night I watched a 2v2 all stam sorcs. Huh wonder why so many.

StamSorcs are hard to kill. They can disengage almost as easy as a Stamblade, that`s why. Though we have to work SO MUCH harder for a kill (or have to be a Doylemish Proc ***).

I was on my StamSorc yesterday to test whether you could fill the deleted StamNecro heal absorbtion role with the Soldier of Anguish set. Didn´t work well.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

My dear stamina brethren, ZOS has heard of your woes and finally salvaged them. 5.0.3. holds wonderful changes. They’re just wrongfully labeled under the category „Nightblade“.

Well, it wonders me how the announced "look into counterplay for mag builds" will turn out. Probably marking silence as a hard CC and again giving an indirect nerf to stam sorcs pvp utility?

Exactly this. Soon our Negate will be worthless, too.

After they took our PvP group mobility role from us.
After they took our PvP group executioner role from us.
After they took our PvP group support bar from us.

At least they are consistent.