Regarding the Combat Log System

kathandira · April 2019

Letho2469 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Letho2469 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Usernames are actually Protected under Privacy Act in the EU and Canada. They are considered Privately-Identifiable Information (PII) and are protected by those countries laws because they can be used in combination with other information sources to cross reference to Identify an Individual; their physical, physiological, mental, economic, cultural or social identity.

So when I record game footage and put it on youtube, and you are in the video, with your username and your character name, how does that work? Would I have to censor your name out of my video?

No. Unless ZOS asks you to remove the video everything is fine.

I'm more suggesting the issue of Privacy of a players username being displayed. People are concerned that since their username is shown in the metrics, it is an issue. But their username is easily displayed in screenshots and videos on a regular basis.

Frankly I don't understand what you wanna say^^ If ppl are concerned about their username being shown, they can set their client to "anonymous" and their @name won't be displayed in logs anymore.

Agreed. It is aimed at those who are concerned with their name being displayed in Logs. But yet their name can be displayed outside of the game quite easily.

I'm just saying the concern is unwarranted.

Iskiab · April 2019

Ugg, thread is still going?

More information is always a good thing, welcome to the 21st century.

In pvp wouldn’t you like to know who’s running crap defenses so vicious death is killing everyone around them? In pve wouldn’t you want to know who’s contributing most vs comparing dummy humping?

I don’t get how someone could be against it.

Chivana · April 2019

Darlon wrote: »

Chivana wrote: »

I'm pretty sure, a full opt-out would be possible very quickly, if everybody cancelled their Elsweyr preorder because of the forced logging. I did and got my money back.

You do realise that this is a base game feature coming with elsweyr? So you will get this anyways in the game.

And people will not stop preordering because of this....

Ofc I know that I will still get logging, just like I will still get my nightblade archer main nerfed. Both very disrespectful so no more money, simple as that.

Letho2469 · April 2019

Chivana wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

Chivana wrote: »

I'm pretty sure, a full opt-out would be possible very quickly, if everybody cancelled their Elsweyr preorder because of the forced logging. I did and got my money back.

You do realise that this is a base game feature coming with elsweyr? So you will get this anyways in the game.

And people will not stop preordering because of this....

Ofc I know that I will still get logging, just like I will still get my nightblade archer main nerfed. Both very disrespectful so no more money, simple as that.

Nerfing sth. = disrespectful, oooooh so goood, so delicious xD

Nebthet78 · April 2019

@ZOS_BobbyWeir @ZOS_GinaBruno

FYI: Appear Anonymous was still set to default OFF when logging in to PTS this week. It was suppose to be changed to automatically "ON".

DarkerDreams · April 2019

I love the people saying that this won't cause any problems. You must not realize how toxic people can be. As someone who normally uses the groupfinder to pug things I've had lots of experiences with toxic people. I've been kicked numerous times at the start of a dungeon when I was lower cp because others decided since I was lower cp I was somehow not able to handle it. This will just make it worse. I can already picture people checking your dps on the site and booting you cause it doesn't match their requirements. Or looking after the first boss is killed and because for some reason you had a slight hiccup and didn't hit the number they thought you should time to get kicked. And as a side note I hate this as much as the stupid loot notifier which os a bunch of crap that people can just see what I picked up. I was pugging a dungeon and got kicked because I got a ring from a chest and wouldn't give it to someone who was farming the set. (Still have all three of them on my ignore list) This should be opt in only so organized trial guilds can have their detailed logging and the rest of us can juat go about our day without having to worry about it.

ManwithBeard9 · April 2019

Nebthet78 wrote: »

@ZOS_BobbyWeir @ZOS_GinaBruno

FYI: Appear Anonymous was still set to default OFF when logging in to PTS this week. It was suppose to be changed to automatically "ON".

From his last comment here - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5996656/#Comment_5996656- theres nothing about a specific date, just that it would eventually be on PTS.

xMovingTarget · April 2019

As a fellow acid spray Spammer, I dont want people to see my epic 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 presses!

80% of the posts in here

angelncelestine · April 2019

xMovingTarget wrote: »

As a fellow acid spray Spammer, I dont want people to see my epic 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 presses!
80% of the posts in here

Hey, you! Don't mention my OP acid spray on the forums it will get nerfed! ;-)

Dosuul · April 2019

Shhhh *smiles and waves*

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

I love the combat log system, actually, it's really quite nice!

Thicclady · April 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Ugg, thread is still going?

More information is always a good thing, welcome to the 21st century.

In pvp wouldn’t you like to know who’s running crap defenses so vicious death is killing everyone around them? In pve wouldn’t you want to know who’s contributing most vs comparing dummy humping?

I don’t get how someone could be against it.

No one is against it per/se. If you wanna go that way, sure! Thing is that as that one guy said, people can be super toxic.

I am sorry you don't get it, maybe when you grow up a bit. Why you trying to force what you like to everyone?

When option could be for raid leader to enable it, still sustaining everyones choice to disable/enable. Or system like that.

Letho2469 · May 2019

xMovingTarget wrote: »

As a fellow acid spray Spammer, I dont want people to see my epic 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 presses!
80% of the posts in here

Kek'd.

Letho2469 · May 2019

Thicclady wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ugg, thread is still going?

More information is always a good thing, welcome to the 21st century.

In pvp wouldn’t you like to know who’s running crap defenses so vicious death is killing everyone around them? In pve wouldn’t you want to know who’s contributing most vs comparing dummy humping?

I don’t get how someone could be against it.

No one is against it per/se. If you wanna go that way, sure! Thing is that as that one guy said, people can be super toxic.

I am sorry you don't get it, maybe when you grow up a bit. Why you trying to force what you like to everyone?

When option could be for raid leader to enable it, still sustaining everyones choice to disable/enable. Or system like that.

You are critisizing other ppl for forcing their oppinion on you while forcing your oppinion on them at the same time - not bad man, not bad. Regarding your last sentence: It makes no sense at all as players can switch themselves to anonymous at any given time. Oh and don't bring the point "but if 3 ppl are not anonymous, they can deduce my results from the logs", because, believe me, players will find out that you suck without using logs.

pelle412 · May 2019

For an opt out to work to address the privacy concerns raised in this thread it has to be game wide. No player should be able to see your user id anywhere in the game unless you gave them permission to see it. Guild rosters, groups, nameplates, in-game messaging, etc. all has to be strictly character name unless you permit otherwise.

To address the toxicity concerns raised, the game has to stop giving any form of damage numbers so DPS can not be measured.

Thicclady · May 2019

Letho2469 wrote: »

Thicclady wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ugg, thread is still going?

More information is always a good thing, welcome to the 21st century.

In pvp wouldn’t you like to know who’s running crap defenses so vicious death is killing everyone around them? In pve wouldn’t you want to know who’s contributing most vs comparing dummy humping?

I don’t get how someone could be against it.

No one is against it per/se. If you wanna go that way, sure! Thing is that as that one guy said, people can be super toxic.

I am sorry you don't get it, maybe when you grow up a bit. Why you trying to force what you like to everyone?

When option could be for raid leader to enable it, still sustaining everyones choice to disable/enable. Or system like that.

You are critisizing other ppl for forcing their oppinion on you while forcing your oppinion on them at the same time - not bad man, not bad. Regarding your last sentence: It makes no sense at all as players can switch themselves to anonymous at any given time. Oh and don't bring the point "but if 3 ppl are not anonymous, they can deduce my results from the logs", because, believe me, players will find out that you suck without using logs.

Just because you can find out stuff about someone now, doesn't mean it should be done the way proposed taking it to whole next level to see stuff from other groups too, the whole thing. UNLESS it can be turned off raid group wide.

Also its no ones business what gear sets Im using. That you can't see or figure out now (well, theoritically you can but in practise its impossible).

WoW did exactly that, and now everyone is using exactly same specs, abilities and sets for their class or not get into raid groups.

Letho2469 · May 2019

Thicclady wrote: »

Letho2469 wrote: »

Thicclady wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ugg, thread is still going?

More information is always a good thing, welcome to the 21st century.

In pvp wouldn’t you like to know who’s running crap defenses so vicious death is killing everyone around them? In pve wouldn’t you want to know who’s contributing most vs comparing dummy humping?

I don’t get how someone could be against it.

No one is against it per/se. If you wanna go that way, sure! Thing is that as that one guy said, people can be super toxic.

I am sorry you don't get it, maybe when you grow up a bit. Why you trying to force what you like to everyone?

When option could be for raid leader to enable it, still sustaining everyones choice to disable/enable. Or system like that.

You are critisizing other ppl for forcing their oppinion on you while forcing your oppinion on them at the same time - not bad man, not bad. Regarding your last sentence: It makes no sense at all as players can switch themselves to anonymous at any given time. Oh and don't bring the point "but if 3 ppl are not anonymous, they can deduce my results from the logs", because, believe me, players will find out that you suck without using logs.

Just because you can find out stuff about someone now, doesn't mean it should be done the way proposed taking it to whole next level to see stuff from other groups too, the whole thing. UNLESS it can be turned off raid group wide.

Also its no ones business what gear sets Im using. That you can't see or figure out now (well, theoritically you can but in practise its impossible).

WoW did exactly that, and now everyone is using exactly same specs, abilities and sets for their class or not get into raid groups.

Yes, that is becuz those specs and sets are best in slot and not using them means wasting other ppls time/leeching. I am speaking of a progression raider's pov.

Kyoma · May 2019

pelle412 wrote: »

To address the toxicity concerns raised, the game has to stop giving any form of damage numbers so DPS can not be measured.

This might actually be a good idea but it has to go one step further, even without numbers you can gauge someone's "dps" so the best thing would be to just give everybody the same amount of damage in a group no matter who is hitting or not hitting the boss/monster. That way everybody will be happy and nobody will have to worry about not pulling their (reasonable) weight in group content.

karekiz · May 2019

Thicclady wrote: »

Also its no ones business what gear sets Im using. That you can't see or figure out now (well, theoritically you can but in practise its impossible).

DPS is a pass or fail check. If your using non meta and beating out everyone in the raid you have literally nothing to worry about. If you at mid way you still don't have anything to worry about, These are *not* real numbers:

DPS:
10K
8K <You>
7K
6K

If its something like that your fine in your custom build. Now if its something like

10K
8K
7K
3K <You>

Then the people looking at parses might have a talk....and they should.

ccmedaddy · May 2019

Kyoma wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

To address the toxicity concerns raised, the game has to stop giving any form of damage numbers so DPS can not be measured.

This might actually be a good idea but it has to go one step further, even without numbers you can gauge someone's "dps" so the best thing would be to just give everybody the same amount of damage in a group no matter who is hitting or not hitting the boss/monster. That way everybody will be happy and nobody will have to worry about not pulling their (reasonable) weight in group content.

I genuinely can't tell if people in this thread are being serious or not lol

Kyoma · May 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Kyoma wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

To address the toxicity concerns raised, the game has to stop giving any form of damage numbers so DPS can not be measured.

This might actually be a good idea but it has to go one step further, even without numbers you can gauge someone's "dps" so the best thing would be to just give everybody the same amount of damage in a group no matter who is hitting or not hitting the boss/monster. That way everybody will be happy and nobody will have to worry about not pulling their (reasonable) weight in group content.

I genuinely can't tell if people in this thread are being serious or not lol

That's the beauty of it, I both was and was not serious.

LjAnimalchin · May 2019

People in this thread are confusing their data with zos's data. Your opt out is uninstalling and not playing. You don't have any right to play a videogame anonymously.

Letho2469 · May 2019

LjAnimalchin wrote: »

People in this thread are confusing their data with zos's data. Your opt out is uninstalling and not playing. You don't have any right to play a videogame anonymously.

THANK YOU, SIR!!!

Nebthet78 · May 2019

LjAnimalchin wrote: »

People in this thread are confusing their data with zos's data. Your opt out is uninstalling and not playing. You don't have any right to play a videogame anonymously.

But it's not ZOS' data. It is "user/player data" and ZOS can't do anything they want with it. The protection of that data in some countries is part of their Privacy act and ZOS must follow that act, otherwise face financial and other court ordered fines.

Why do you think Facebook is getting it's butt handed handed to it with lawsuits and fines from Countries where it has been found they broke a user's privacy rights? The Cambridge Analytical crap is not much different to what is happening here. The UK already fined FB for over $650,000usd, and Canada is in the middle of taking them to Court to enforce the Privacy Act.

Cambridge Analytical made a Third Party Program accessed through Facebook by a game app for a psychological test. It took the information about you and the people on your friends lists and compiled it, whether or not your friends used the app. Facebook is getting in a lot of trouble because there was no "Meaningful Consent" given to allow this Third Party game app to get the users information nor their friends information.

ESO Logger, can record what you do in game, what you wear. Whether or not you are in a group with someone, and whether or not you want someone to record what you are doing. It's not enough that you are placed on anonymous. What you do in game and what is recorded by others can be used in such a way that it CAN be used to identify you and can be used to compile information such as how often you log in and form groups, play time. Play style. All things that can be placed in a database and scrutinized.

For other players AND this Third Party website/app to be able to lawfully record anything I do in game, ZOS is required to put in place measures for Meaningful Consent and an option to completely Opt-Out of anything being recorded at all.
It's in their best interest to come up of a way to do this, before releasing this into the live game, because the costs afterwards could get staggering.

I recommend for people who are against this, to notify their Privacy Commissions about the intent of what this program is doing so they can work with ZOS to ensure our Privacy Rights are enforced.

ManwithBeard9 · May 2019

Nebthet78 wrote: »

LjAnimalchin wrote: »

People in this thread are confusing their data with zos's data. Your opt out is uninstalling and not playing. You don't have any right to play a videogame anonymously.

But it's not ZOS' data. It is "user/player data" and ZOS can't do anything they want with it. The protection of that data in some countries is part of their Privacy act and ZOS must follow that act, otherwise face financial and other court ordered fines.

Why do you think Facebook is getting it's butt handed handed to it with lawsuits and fines from Countries where it has been found they broke a user's privacy rights? The Cambridge Analytical crap is not much different to what is happening here. The UK already fined FB for over $650,000usd, and Canada is in the middle of taking them to Court to enforce the Privacy Act.

Cambridge Analytical made a Third Party Program accessed through Facebook by a game app for a psychological test. It took the information about you and the people on your friends lists and compiled it, whether or not your friends used the app. Facebook is getting in a lot of trouble because there was no "Meaningful Consent" given to allow this Third Party game app to get the users information nor their friends information.

ESO Logger, can record what you do in game, what you wear. Whether or not you are in a group with someone, and whether or not you want someone to record what you are doing. It's not enough that you are placed on anonymous. What you do in game and what is recorded by others can be used in such a way that it CAN be used to identify you and can be used to compile information such as how often you log in and form groups, play time. Play style. All things that can be placed in a database and scrutinized.

For other players AND this Third Party website/app to be able to lawfully record anything I do in game, ZOS is required to put in place measures for Meaningful Consent and an option to completely Opt-Out of anything being recorded at all.
It's in their best interest to come up of a way to do this, before releasing this into the live game, because the costs afterwards could get staggering.

I recommend for people who are against this, to notify their Privacy Commissions about the intent of what this program is doing so they can work with ZOS to ensure our Privacy Rights are enforced.

The ESO Logger can only record combat information. It can't record how often you play, it can't record how often you play in a group. It can't record how much you spend in the crown store. It can't record your play style. It can ONLY record AFTER its been turned on. Your fear mongering is astounding.

Nebthet78 · May 2019

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

LjAnimalchin wrote: »

People in this thread are confusing their data with zos's data. Your opt out is uninstalling and not playing. You don't have any right to play a videogame anonymously.

But it's not ZOS' data. It is "user/player data" and ZOS can't do anything they want with it. The protection of that data in some countries is part of their Privacy act and ZOS must follow that act, otherwise face financial and other court ordered fines.

Why do you think Facebook is getting it's butt handed handed to it with lawsuits and fines from Countries where it has been found they broke a user's privacy rights? The Cambridge Analytical crap is not much different to what is happening here. The UK already fined FB for over $650,000usd, and Canada is in the middle of taking them to Court to enforce the Privacy Act.

Cambridge Analytical made a Third Party Program accessed through Facebook by a game app for a psychological test. It took the information about you and the people on your friends lists and compiled it, whether or not your friends used the app. Facebook is getting in a lot of trouble because there was no "Meaningful Consent" given to allow this Third Party game app to get the users information nor their friends information.

ESO Logger, can record what you do in game, what you wear. Whether or not you are in a group with someone, and whether or not you want someone to record what you are doing. It's not enough that you are placed on anonymous. What you do in game and what is recorded by others can be used in such a way that it CAN be used to identify you and can be used to compile information such as how often you log in and form groups, play time. Play style. All things that can be placed in a database and scrutinized.

For other players AND this Third Party website/app to be able to lawfully record anything I do in game, ZOS is required to put in place measures for Meaningful Consent and an option to completely Opt-Out of anything being recorded at all.
It's in their best interest to come up of a way to do this, before releasing this into the live game, because the costs afterwards could get staggering.

I recommend for people who are against this, to notify their Privacy Commissions about the intent of what this program is doing so they can work with ZOS to ensure our Privacy Rights are enforced.

The ESO Logger can only record combat information. It can't record how often you play, it can't record how often you play in a group. It can't record how much you spend in the crown store. It can't record your play style. It can ONLY record AFTER its been turned on. Your fear mongering is astounding.

It can still record what my character does while I play without my permission, whether or not I'm anonymous. I'm sorry, but my Privacy rights are more important.

MLGProPlayer · May 2019

ITT: "I do 5k DPS and like getting carried. I'm scared this will expose me"

People can already see if you're a potato DD, by the way. Combat Metrics shows you your DPS as a fraction of the total team DPS. If one DD is dealing an obscene amount of team DPS (like 75%+) it means the other DD isn't doing their job.

However, in many PUGs, both DDs are potatoes, forcing the healer to carry the DPS load. Again, players can already see this.

If you have a history of being kicked, it doesn't mean the community is toxic. It means you need to invest some time into getting better, or you need to stick to easier content until you are ready for harder stuff. We've all sucked at this game at one point or another. You aren't entitled to a free ride through all content. You need to put in the time, like everyone else, to get better.

nud3_voxel · May 2019

You realise that most of the people using 'meta builds' don't pug dungeons and when they do, are actually good enough to carry the dungeon anyway? They don't give two *** about your gear and dps. You're more likely to get kicked by salty RPers that prefer to blame others when they wipe once in a dungeon.

FatalForce · May 2019

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Why do you think Facebook is getting it's butt handed handed to it with lawsuits and fines from Countries where it has been found they broke a user's privacy rights? The Cambridge Analytical crap is not much different to what is happening here. The UK already fined FB for over $650,000usd, and Canada is in the middle of taking them to Court to enforce the Privacy Act.

Cambridge Analytical made a Third Party Program accessed through Facebook by a game app for a psychological test. It took the information about you and the people on your friends lists and compiled it, whether or not your friends used the app. Facebook is getting in a lot of trouble because there was no "Meaningful Consent" given to allow this Third Party game app to get the users information nor their friends information.

I'm sorry, but frankly I do not equate my legal first name, last name, picture of myself, my girlfriend, my family, what I ate yesterday, where I traveled last month, etc. to what I attacked last night in a group dungeon or how much damage I did while in a trial. To even attempt to compare these as equal is mind blowing.

As for your concern about ZoS being in legal trouble. Can you state your credentials and why I should believe a word of what you said? Do you really think ZoS or Bathesda, both AAA gaming companies to my knowledge, don't have paid legal staff specifically making sure this isn't going to be a problem for them? Do you think this hasn't been thought of for the other logging websites for games like WoW and FF that already exist and have been used for a long time?

Heelie · May 2019

Your 100% opt out is to uinstall, now as for the anonymous option it works as it should, noone can go and stalk a certain @ name to name and shame them, but their data is still gathered to give a full view of the encounter. Lets say you took an anonymous person into your raid to replace a dd, now the raid leader might not care about the anonymous person. But they still need to know the stats of th full encount to gage why and when your group is wiping.

As for dungeons, the sort of person to kick people over bad performance already have the tools. I never PUG anymore. I can't tell how toxic the community is, but I remember getting kicked at last boss in normal WGT after soloing the entire dungeon but a group of RP'ers annoyed that I was going too fast.