NB Changes v5.0.1: Problem Areas and Potential Solutions

Apxac · April 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

I mainly play BGs and cyrodiil. I’m a cyrodiil healer and am interested in magblade dps just for BGs.

I’ve been thinking about troll king. Only thing I don’t like is there’s no effect until you’re in execute range. From my experience anyone under 50% health is piled on in BGs and you might as well be dead, you’re a second or two away anyways.

I’ve been thinking on it and all I can come up with is plant the shade, lotus fan into melee, aoe spam, shade out.

Most BG pvpers are DKs, Sorcs and Wardens so I’m not sure how well jumping into melee will go, or porting out with a shalks or DK leap following you out...

I’m thinking the only way to make it work is high mitigation, like 30k+ resists with 5x light armour. 5x fortified brass, 5x bright throat, 1 chudan, 1 ... whatever gives mitigation. 2x protective, 1 speed, steed mundus. If you can’t heal for more you’ll need to mitigate more.

High health recovery would also be a smart choice. Why blow skill slots on crappy healing skills like swallow soul when you can self heal passively.

Dot-damage and Ultimate 2H ignore all this, without good healing in this situation can not survive. I think you noticed how much dot-damage is currently in use. Changes in this topic are really good, but the question remains with healing and developers need to pay attention to it. I hope they will appreciate this article and listen to the players.

Jeezye · April 2019

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

thankyourat · April 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

I hate all the bar space it takes I'm not going to put 3 hots on my bar just to basically do the same healing as vigor which only takes up one bar slot.

Insco851 · April 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

thankyourat wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

I hate all the bar space it takes I'm not going to put 3 hots on my bar just to basically do the same healing as vigor which only takes up one bar slot.

bUt ClOaK

mcagatayg · April 2019

magblade went from no.1 ranged dps to last spot, i dont like the nerfs but whatever, i will just switch to a diff class. Not much to do but cry here... and it doesnt work...

Maulkin · April 2019

mcagatayg wrote: »

magblade went from no.1 ranged dps to last spot, i dont like the nerfs but whatever, i will just switch to a diff class. Not much to do but cry here... and it doesnt work...

How? They lost nothing that's not replaceable by group buffs.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

Revert all nerfs. Add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge. Problem solved.

Iskiab · April 2019

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132297

Here’s as far as I’ve gotten building a 5.0.1 spec. Any way to fill in the blanks and make it not suck for BGs, or should I ditch attempting mitigation for health recovery? This would be for attempting melee magblade.

I’m wondering is stacking enough healing with high mitigation would work. Swallow soul, sap, refreshing, rapid regen, harness magicka, etc...

Basicly apply the dots with lotus, keep refreshing and the combat prayer buff up, keep swallow soul up. Idk.

killingspreeb16_ESO · April 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Revert all nerfs. Add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge. Problem solved.

No need,the skill is fine there are many counter to cloak in the game alredy (unlike streak)adding a cost increase would just destroy the skill.

One day people will understand that cloak and streak are two different skill in two different class kit.

MentalxHammer · April 2019

SUGGESTION: If mark target is going to be the main source of major fracture can we pretty please see some reworks or buffs to the skill? I would be thrilled to see minor stamina steal as a part of this skill, currently it is very underehelming in the PvP environment!

hakan · April 2019

Daus wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Interesting but you lost me when you said Incap is lacking functionality

Incap is such trash right now that I'd rather take the damage loss and use Soul Harvest in a CP campaign as a stamblade.

soul harvest doesnt sound too bad in bgs considering it is non cp.

To OP: i agree on the problems but solutions doesnt seem right.

Jeezye · April 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132297

Here’s as far as I’ve gotten building a 5.0.1 spec. Any way to fill in the blanks and make it not suck for BGs, or should I ditch attempting mitigation for health recovery? This would be for attempting melee magblade.

I’m wondering is stacking enough healing with high mitigation would work. Swallow soul, sap, refreshing, rapid regen, harness magicka, etc...

Basicly apply the dots with lotus, keep refreshing and the combat prayer buff up, keep swallow soul up. Idk.

IDK man, if you wanna go for a tanky route I'd prefer major protection in light armor over heavy armor resistance stacking every day. It cant be penetrated, applies to bleeds and results in roughly the same overall damage reduction.

I found the key to high survivability is haivng enough crit rating to let your hots tick high enough, that is siphoning attacks and dark cloak (which both aren't amplified by magicka/spellmg) and your overall healing is also pushed by damage done. Thus, light armor is way superior to heavy armor imo, even if you want to build tanky. Triune jewelry makes up for the loss in hp.

Iskiab · April 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132297

Here’s as far as I’ve gotten building a 5.0.1 spec. Any way to fill in the blanks and make it not suck for BGs, or should I ditch attempting mitigation for health recovery? This would be for attempting melee magblade.

I’m wondering is stacking enough healing with high mitigation would work. Swallow soul, sap, refreshing, rapid regen, harness magicka, etc...

Basicly apply the dots with lotus, keep refreshing and the combat prayer buff up, keep swallow soul up. Idk.

IDK man, if you wanna go for a tanky route I'd prefer major protection in light armor over heavy armor resistance stacking every day. It cant be penetrated, applies to bleeds and results in roughly the same overall damage reduction.

I found the key to high survivability is haivng enough crit rating to let your hots tick high enough, that is siphoning attacks and dark cloak (which both aren't amplified by magicka/spellmg) and your overall healing is also pushed by damage done. Thus, light armor is way superior to heavy armor imo, even if you want to build tanky. Triune jewelry makes up for the loss in hp.

I agree in principal but haven’t figured out a way to get 100% uptime on major protection.

Other thing is offsetting damage with healing only works 1v1. Second you add BG aoe spam mitigation becomes more important. Basicly it’s so you have reaction time to escape/cloak. With 20k resists plus 10% buffer of the swift damage reduction shalks still hits for 5k, without enough mitigation you’ll die in one GCD.

Typical BG group tactic is to push the front line into the back line, then leap + shalks + DB (or ult dump). I’m just trying to figure out how to survive long enough to shade out.

Btw, what I linked was light armour. I agree the pen and sustain from light is definitely required

Maulkin · April 2019

Daus wrote: »

Incap is such trash right now that I'd rather take the damage loss and use Soul Harvest in a CP campaign as a stamblade.

Basically the reverse of what Magblades were doing back in Clockwork City. When 75-cost Incap was stunning, defiling and adding 20% damage, while Merciless didn't have the delay added yet. That wasn't a good state and this one isn't either.

Remove the utterly useless Mangle and either:
a) Put defile on the base skill. Incap morph converts to disease damage and stuns at 125 cost.
b) Make the stun part of 75 cost Incap. No defile and no 125-cost proc.

Insco851 · April 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132297

Here’s as far as I’ve gotten building a 5.0.1 spec. Any way to fill in the blanks and make it not suck for BGs, or should I ditch attempting mitigation for health recovery? This would be for attempting melee magblade.

I’m wondering is stacking enough healing with high mitigation would work. Swallow soul, sap, refreshing, rapid regen, harness magicka, etc...

Basicly apply the dots with lotus, keep refreshing and the combat prayer buff up, keep swallow soul up. Idk.

IDK man, if you wanna go for a tanky route I'd prefer major protection in light armor over heavy armor resistance stacking every day. It cant be penetrated, applies to bleeds and results in roughly the same overall damage reduction.

I found the key to high survivability is haivng enough crit rating to let your hots tick high enough, that is siphoning attacks and dark cloak (which both aren't amplified by magicka/spellmg) and your overall healing is also pushed by damage done. Thus, light armor is way superior to heavy armor imo, even if you want to build tanky. Triune jewelry makes up for the loss in hp.

I agree in principal but haven’t figured out a way to get 100% uptime on major protection.

Other thing is offsetting damage with healing only works 1v1. Second you add BG aoe spam mitigation becomes more important. Basicly it’s so you have reaction time to escape/cloak. With 20k resists plus 10% buffer of the swift damage reduction shalks still hits for 5k, without enough mitigation you’ll die in one GCD.

Typical BG group tactic is to push the front line into the back line, then leap + shalks + DB (or ult dump). I’m just trying to figure out how to survive long enough to shade out.

Btw, what I linked was light armour. I agree the pen and sustain from light is definitely required

It def wouldn’t work for open world but you might try running Black Rose DW and blade cloak. You get expedition, evasion and 3 seconds of major protection... it might be good enough in BGs

Bazeric · April 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

thankyourat wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

I hate all the bar space it takes I'm not going to put 3 hots on my bar just to basically do the same healing as vigor which only takes up one bar slot.

*proud parent tear face* They understand.

So I hopped on a sorc (for the last 48 hours) just to see what it's like currently. Streak is hands down outperforming cloak right now. I can still wear full damage sets (or a defensive monster set if I want 30k health + 20k or more resistances), have a 13k shield, and a 4k non crit burst heal. All with a non-optimized build, ideally with farming and investment into sorc, I could have 40k max magicka + 3.8k spell damage + 1.8k Regen (which I can buffer with Dark Deal) and I can adjust CP to however I prefer for crit/pen. Curse would hit like 5K non crit against tankier players, frags proc on cold down and would hit like 6-7k non crits (using force pulse as spammable, which would be 6k non crits,), and the heal would be like 5.5k non crit both twilight or dark deal. The damage and kite ability is amazing. I should mention this is all while not a being vampire. The same investment towards stats on NB, especially melee, are a death sentence. Bow will not be proccing on cool down, and there is not 5k/12kcrit unavoidable AOE revealing dot(curse).

Also, in the last 48 hours, I've procced as many frags as I have procced bows in the last 3 years, and I've landed probably 200% more of them. Really seems silly not to switch at this point. NB just keeps requiring more and more effort for less and less pay off, sorc is refreshingly simple and more effective... especially against NB.

twing1_ · April 2019

Bazeric wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

thankyourat wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

I hate all the bar space it takes I'm not going to put 3 hots on my bar just to basically do the same healing as vigor which only takes up one bar slot.

*proud parent tear face* They understand.

So I hopped on a sorc (for the last 48 hours) just to see what it's like currently. Streak is hands down outperforming cloak right now. I can still wear full damage sets (or a defensive monster set if I want 30k health + 20k or more resistances), have a 13k shield, and a 4k non crit burst heal. All with a non-optimized build, ideally with farming and investment into sorc, I could have 40k max magicka + 3.8k spell damage + 1.8k Regen (which I can buffer with Dark Deal) and I can adjust CP to however I prefer for crit/pen. Curse would hit like 5K non crit against tankier players, frags proc on cold down and would hit like 6-7k non crits (using force pulse as spammable, which would be 6k non crits,), and the heal would be like 5.5k non crit both twilight or dark deal. The damage and kite ability is amazing. I should mention this is all while not a being vampire. The same investment towards stats on NB, especially melee, are a death sentence. Bow will not be proccing on cool down, and there is not 5k/12kcrit unavoidable AOE revealing dot(curse).

Also, in the last 48 hours, I've procced as many frags as I have procced bows in the last 3 years, and I've landed probably 200% more of them. Really seems silly not to switch at this point. NB just keeps requiring more and more effort for less and less pay off, sorc is refreshingly simple and more effective... especially against NB.

Sorc is a whole problem on it's own. It's overtuned right now, no matter which other class you compare it to (except necro).

This isn't an issue with NB under performing, but rather sorc over performing.

Bazeric · April 2019

Or is it performing as it should? They have been subject to various nerfs and adjustment over the years as well. Ask sorc mains and I'm sure they'd give you an earful "shield duration, something, streak cost increase, something, something" I know it's not one to one, but I think it leaves room to bring NB up to that level since Sorcerer and Nightblade should be the top two for damage in PVP. The other class can do damage well, but still have their primary roles to fall back on. DK tanky , Templar Healy, Warden kinda in between (unless stamden then it's just AOE blasting) ZOS wants to pretend you can do every role with every class, but they are still geared towards preferences.
Edit: Cleaned up from mobile

Dr_Ganknstein · April 2019

Grim Focus should be renamed Grim Useless

Insco851 · April 2019

Bazeric wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

thankyourat wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

well thought I had something clever, turns out healing for 500 a tick from *** swallow isn't enough to do anything.

Not by itself it isn’t. you need swallow ticking, rapid ticking, siphoning ticking, like 1k health regen and major vitality lingering health pots. Lololol

Honestly working on that build tho...

Now imagine you invest the same amount of skills, armor and potion buffs on other classes. A magdk, a magden or a magplar will simply be unkillable when they layer that many hots, in turn on a magblade you’re just at the edge of not getting blasted away by a poop with said setup. The squishyness of the class is insane

I hate all the bar space it takes I'm not going to put 3 hots on my bar just to basically do the same healing as vigor which only takes up one bar slot.

*proud parent tear face* They understand.

So I hopped on a sorc (for the last 48 hours) just to see what it's like currently. Streak is hands down outperforming cloak right now. I can still wear full damage sets (or a defensive monster set if I want 30k health + 20k or more resistances), have a 13k shield, and a 4k non crit burst heal. All with a non-optimized build, ideally with farming and investment into sorc, I could have 40k max magicka + 3.8k spell damage + 1.8k Regen (which I can buffer with Dark Deal) and I can adjust CP to however I prefer for crit/pen. Curse would hit like 5K non crit against tankier players, frags proc on cold down and would hit like 6-7k non crits (using force pulse as spammable, which would be 6k non crits,), and the heal would be like 5.5k non crit both twilight or dark deal. The damage and kite ability is amazing. I should mention this is all while not a being vampire. The same investment towards stats on NB, especially melee, are a death sentence. Bow will not be proccing on cool down, and there is not 5k/12kcrit unavoidable AOE revealing dot(curse).

Also, in the last 48 hours, I've procced as many frags as I have procced bows in the last 3 years, and I've landed probably 200% more of them. Really seems silly not to switch at this point. NB just keeps requiring more and more effort for less and less pay off, sorc is refreshingly simple and more effective... especially against NB.

Yea it’s almost silly when you compare these classes back to back. Sorc has incredible burst lined up by MULTIPLE delayed procs.

stimpy986b14_ESO · April 2019

As a PVE magblade main I fully agree with this post... with some caveats.

1. Moving brutality/sorcery from drain power to grim focus means that (like other classes) I can cast these buffs before combat instead of having to wade into the thick of it alongside the tank.
2. putting minor vulnerability on mark target means I can apply a debuff to targets that may not already be applied by the tank.
3. While I agree with this point I would say that the snare from lotus fan should be removed as well and Drain power should snare all targets hit. Lotus Fan still has the powerful aoe DoT and gap closer and drain power would retain some utility instead of being a straight damage/heal ability after losing major brutality/sorcery. This also fills a pretty large gap in the NB tank's toolkit as NB is currently the only class w/o an aoe snare/immobilize.
4. I agree that minor mangle is a terrible debuff to put on incap as it makes the ability even less useful than if it was pure damage. My suggestion would be to remove the minor mangle and add damage to the ability based on how much ultimate is consumed above the 70 minimum.
5. Veiled strike already deals more damage than most class spammables so I think that moving it out of the shadow tree is a good first step but I don't think Blur is the ideal ability to replace it with as it would be condensing too many defensive buffs into one ability (major evasion, major resolve, and major ward + minor resolve/ward if using the mirage morph). I think teleport strike should replace it instead with the caveat that it gains the 3.5m minimum range seen in other gap closers so that it's no longer spammable.

Cireous · April 2019

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

but I don't think Blur is the ideal ability to replace it with as it would be condensing too many defensive buffs into one ability (major evasion, major resolve, and major ward + minor resolve/ward if using the mirage morph). I think teleport strike should replace it instead with the caveat that it gains the 3.5m minimum range seen in other gap closers so that it's no longer spammable.

I'm setting up builds for all my characters/classes right now for surviving overland Dragons (don't laugh). There's only one problem, one class does not give major ward/major resolve for as long of a duration as the other classes do. Nightblade. It's driving me crazy. Going through all the skills, Blur seems like the perfect place for it. Why not just make major resolve/major ward baseline for Blur, get rid of the minor buffs all together, and have one morph be major evasion and the other one remove snares and immobilizations. They could add minor expedition to it as well, just to make me giddy. I don't know, just a thought.

JinxxND · April 2019

I don't think moving veiled strike to another skill tree is a good idea because that would require reworking the whole class and how it functions and possibly create a bunch of new issues similar to what we are dealing with, with these current changes. As is on live stamina nightblade which is one of the squishiest classes but also the highest single target damage class has to engage in melee combat to get a sustainable major armor buff, if it plays ranged it doesn't have consistent access to this armor buff in a sustainable way because the rest of the shadow skills are magicka based and go off the low resource pool which isn't sustainable for a stamina class. Even with the major armor buff it is still considered one of the squishiest classes because lack of healing skill unlike a class like warden/dk etc. with access to mending buffs, multiple HoTs etc. but with this it also has some of the best ways to disengage if utilized right which don't require the need to be sustainable with skills like cloak, summon shade etc. which is the playstyle of a nightblade unless it's a heavy armor nightblade which has no problems avoiding being squishy because how the passive synergies with heavy armor and already existing nightblade passives.

I think we should just focus on critical issues at hand that was brought up by @twing1_ with this posts creation with all the current PTS changes and how they hurt all nightblade classes at the moment in one way or another. Some of these changes brought up such as moving blur to the shadow tree for major armor buff would further homogenize and make our unique class a lot less unique from the high risk high reward playstyle and more along the lines of every other class.

stimpy986b14_ESO · April 2019

Cireous wrote: »

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

but I don't think Blur is the ideal ability to replace it with as it would be condensing too many defensive buffs into one ability (major evasion, major resolve, and major ward + minor resolve/ward if using the mirage morph). I think teleport strike should replace it instead with the caveat that it gains the 3.5m minimum range seen in other gap closers so that it's no longer spammable.

I'm setting up builds for all my characters/classes right now for surviving overland Dragons (don't laugh). There's only one problem, one class does not give major ward/major resolve for as long of a duration as the other classes do. Nightblade. It's driving me crazy. Going through all the skills, Blur seems like the perfect place for it. Why not just make major resolve/major ward baseline for Blur, get rid of the minor buffs all together, and have one morph be major evasion and the other one remove snares and immobilizations. They could add minor expedition to it as well, just to make me giddy. I don't know, just a thought.

That's a separate issue entirely and I agree that the duration of Shadow Barrier needs a buff but IMO tying it to Blur which already has alot of defensive utility is the wrong way to go.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Revert all nerfs. Add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge. Problem solved.

No need,the skill is fine there are many counter to cloak in the game alredy (unlike streak)adding a cost increase would just destroy the skill.

One day people will understand that cloak and streak are two different skill in two different class kit.

Yes, there are ton counters. And ok, on live cloak is ok, because there other similar abilities of other classes (hard counters, which require costly sacrifices to counter them). Now ZOS get rid/nerfs all those hard counters, while severely nerfing NB as class and buffing cloak. (+0.1 duration, small but still buff). Something wrong here, no?

killingspreeb16_ESO · April 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Revert all nerfs. Add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge. Problem solved.

No need,the skill is fine there are many counter to cloak in the game alredy (unlike streak)adding a cost increase would just destroy the skill.

One day people will understand that cloak and streak are two different skill in two different class kit.

Yes, there are ton counters. And ok, on live cloak is ok, because there other similar abilities of other classes (hard counters, which require costly sacrifices to counter them). Now ZOS get rid/nerfs all those hard counters, while severely nerfing NB as class and buffing cloak. (+0.1 duration, small but still buff). Something wrong here, no?

Next patch every aoe is getting a buff too so especially in bg cloak will be harder to use.

But really you have a problem with 0.1 extra duration?sound like an excuse at this point since literally nothing change.

Let me guess youre talking about streak and wing(?)with similiar ability but those skill don't have any counter like cloak,you don't dispell wing or make the sorc lose magika and find himself at the same position with an aoe and then have to recast the skill nor there is a potion to help with those two skill.
Wing are used on live as immunity to class/build like ranged mageblade that can't do anything against them since there are no counter for it unlike cloak that just slotting a class skill like spiked armor and jabs work as counter.(no sacrifice since are skill used by everyone)
A MNB need to slot force pulse or CW just to do a bit of dmg to the DK but nothing change since wing are still up and the MNB can't use any other skill or light attack while the dk is able to do the full rotation.(And i don't even agree with the change on pts to wing there are better suggestion on the forum)
Stop with the cloak comparison to every other skill they are different.
Even thinking to slap a cost increase to cloak(totally unnecessary)it should last like 1-1,5 sec so the one that use right after break lose more magika and give more chance to get the kill not 5 second that's overkill.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Revert all nerfs. Add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge. Problem solved.

No need,the skill is fine there are many counter to cloak in the game alredy (unlike streak)adding a cost increase would just destroy the skill.

One day people will understand that cloak and streak are two different skill in two different class kit.

Yes, there are ton counters. And ok, on live cloak is ok, because there other similar abilities of other classes (hard counters, which require costly sacrifices to counter them). Now ZOS get rid/nerfs all those hard counters, while severely nerfing NB as class and buffing cloak. (+0.1 duration, small but still buff). Something wrong here, no?

Next patch every aoe is getting a buff too so especially in bg cloak will be harder to use.

But really you have a problem with 0.1 extra duration?sound like an excuse at this point since literally nothing change.

Let me guess youre talking about streak and wing(?)with similiar ability but those skill don't have any counter like cloak,you don't dispell wing or make the sorc lose magika and find himself at the same position with an aoe and then have to recast the skill nor there is a potion to help with those two skill.
Wing are used on live as immunity to class/build like ranged mageblade that can't do anything against them since there are no counter for it unlike cloak that just slotting a class skill like spiked armor and jabs work as counter.(no sacrifice since are skill used by everyone)
A MNB need to slot force pulse or CW just to do a bit of dmg to the DK but nothing change since wing are still up and the MNB can't use any other skill or light attack while the dk is able to do the full rotation.(And i don't even agree with the change on pts to wing there are better suggestion on the forum)
Stop with the cloak comparison to every other skill they are different.
Even thinking to slap a cost increase to cloak(totally unnecessary)it should last like 1-1,5 sec so the one that use right after break lose more magika and give more chance to get the kill not 5 second that's overkill.

Speaking that you can't counter play current wings or streak is same that you can't counter cloak. Yes, it costs you slotting sub-optimal abilities, enchants etc, but you can counter-play them. So those abilities had same problem as cloak - countering them costs more then using those abilities. So PVP on live is like Rock Paper Scissors - if you slot abilities to counter other class you have advantage over that class, but disadvantage against others, but if you didn't slot them that class is hard counter against you. So as I see devs want to shut down that system, though game has all chances to became plain and boring after that... and they shut-down all hard counters, while in case of NB they "tone down" whole class but leave hard counter as it is and even buff shade too!
Since NB depends on burst, to compensate lose of minor berserk, you will invest more in damage and less in survival and every NB will be cautious toxic backstabber looking for opportunity to kill somebody squishy in 2-3 seconds or finish somebody busy with others, but disengaging to shade and cloak immediately since they will die in 2-3 seconds while exposed too. At least what I saw on PTS - ultra-squishy ultra-bursty NBs which tp away if burst failed and sit in cloak/stealth far away from detection radius until you stop looking for them.

Jeezye · April 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132297

Here’s as far as I’ve gotten building a 5.0.1 spec. Any way to fill in the blanks and make it not suck for BGs, or should I ditch attempting mitigation for health recovery? This would be for attempting melee magblade.

I’m wondering is stacking enough healing with high mitigation would work. Swallow soul, sap, refreshing, rapid regen, harness magicka, etc...

Basicly apply the dots with lotus, keep refreshing and the combat prayer buff up, keep swallow soul up. Idk.

IDK man, if you wanna go for a tanky route I'd prefer major protection in light armor over heavy armor resistance stacking every day. It cant be penetrated, applies to bleeds and results in roughly the same overall damage reduction.

I found the key to high survivability is haivng enough crit rating to let your hots tick high enough, that is siphoning attacks and dark cloak (which both aren't amplified by magicka/spellmg) and your overall healing is also pushed by damage done. Thus, light armor is way superior to heavy armor imo, even if you want to build tanky. Triune jewelry makes up for the loss in hp.

I agree in principal but haven’t figured out a way to get 100% uptime on major protection.

Other thing is offsetting damage with healing only works 1v1. Second you add BG aoe spam mitigation becomes more important. Basicly it’s so you have reaction time to escape/cloak. With 20k resists plus 10% buffer of the swift damage reduction shalks still hits for 5k, without enough mitigation you’ll die in one GCD.

Typical BG group tactic is to push the front line into the back line, then leap + shalks + DB (or ult dump). I’m just trying to figure out how to survive long enough to shade out.

Btw, what I linked was light armour. I agree the pen and sustain from light is definitely required

100% major protection buff is pretty tricky. In non-cloak builds, I'm always married to pirate skeleton as it also naturally reduced the burst you take and gives you a prolonged window for your hots to heal you up.

A really interesting combo is matching pirate skeleton with jorvulds, which actually puts you at 100% major protection and allows for some interesting synergies with the rest of the nightblade toolkit. I've ran that in combination with SPC and combat prayer to have really high buff uptimes for my group, but I dropped it when my offheal nightblade got reckt in nerfmire

killingspreeb16_ESO · April 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Revert all nerfs. Add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge. Problem solved.

No need,the skill is fine there are many counter to cloak in the game alredy (unlike streak)adding a cost increase would just destroy the skill.

One day people will understand that cloak and streak are two different skill in two different class kit.

Yes, there are ton counters. And ok, on live cloak is ok, because there other similar abilities of other classes (hard counters, which require costly sacrifices to counter them). Now ZOS get rid/nerfs all those hard counters, while severely nerfing NB as class and buffing cloak. (+0.1 duration, small but still buff). Something wrong here, no?

Next patch every aoe is getting a buff too so especially in bg cloak will be harder to use.

But really you have a problem with 0.1 extra duration?sound like an excuse at this point since literally nothing change.

Let me guess youre talking about streak and wing(?)with similiar ability but those skill don't have any counter like cloak,you don't dispell wing or make the sorc lose magika and find himself at the same position with an aoe and then have to recast the skill nor there is a potion to help with those two skill.
Wing are used on live as immunity to class/build like ranged mageblade that can't do anything against them since there are no counter for it unlike cloak that just slotting a class skill like spiked armor and jabs work as counter.(no sacrifice since are skill used by everyone)
A MNB need to slot force pulse or CW just to do a bit of dmg to the DK but nothing change since wing are still up and the MNB can't use any other skill or light attack while the dk is able to do the full rotation.(And i don't even agree with the change on pts to wing there are better suggestion on the forum)
Stop with the cloak comparison to every other skill they are different.
Even thinking to slap a cost increase to cloak(totally unnecessary)it should last like 1-1,5 sec so the one that use right after break lose more magika and give more chance to get the kill not 5 second that's overkill.

Speaking that you can't counter play current wings or streak is same that you can't counter cloak. Yes, it costs you slotting sub-optimal abilities, enchants etc, but you can counter-play them. So those abilities had same problem as cloak - countering them costs more then using those abilities. So PVP on live is like Rock Paper Scissors - if you slot abilities to counter other class you have advantage over that class, but disadvantage against others, but if you didn't slot them that class is hard counter against you. So as I see devs want to shut down that system, though game has all chances to became plain and boring after that... and they shut-down all hard counters, while in case of NB they "tone down" whole class but leave hard counter as it is and even buff shade too!
Since NB depends on burst, to compensate lose of minor berserk, you will invest more in damage and less in survival and every NB will be cautious toxic backstabber looking for opportunity to kill somebody squishy in 2-3 seconds or finish somebody busy with others, but disengaging to shade and cloak immediately since they will die in 2-3 seconds while exposed too. At least what I saw on PTS - ultra-squishy ultra-bursty NBs which tp away if burst failed and sit in cloak/stealth far away from detection radius until you stop looking for them.

Sorry but no,you have to slot a skill just to do dmg to a dk with wings up but youre not countering it since wings are still there youre not killing anyone by spamming force pulse or CW.
Cloak is different not only have way more counter and many of them are in your class kit:jabs,spiked armor streak,curse or weapon skill like spin2win,wall of element etc and when you break it the nb is there where it was and cloak failed as defense while streak would have teleported the sorc and wing would be still there defending the dk from ranged skills.

Shade "buffed" but still bugged too and a cost increase would change nothing since they teleport to the shade cloak and sneak away,this suggestion punish people that are actually fighthing melee,when you need a breathing room to heal for example you cloak try to reposition yourself and heal but most of the time cloak will break atleast one time doing literally nothing if not wasting your magika.

Now idc about the nb that run away when you look at them i kill them much easier since they don't know how to play the class,they will never slot shade they are the guys that keep getting killed by snipe and reroll nb to to the same and next patch this play style is getting nerfed aswell most of them will reroll again.

To me you guys are just finding excuse to nerf cloak like the "BUFF OF 0.1 DURATION!!"
Cloak is fine like this since unlike wing and streak there are tons of counter that make the skill do nothing not like streak that can't be stopped or wing that can't be dispelled by aoe or melee attacks etc

Failing to understand how the skills works and how different they are is not going to give you an argument to nerf them.

Iskiab · April 2019

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132297

Here’s as far as I’ve gotten building a 5.0.1 spec. Any way to fill in the blanks and make it not suck for BGs, or should I ditch attempting mitigation for health recovery? This would be for attempting melee magblade.

I’m wondering is stacking enough healing with high mitigation would work. Swallow soul, sap, refreshing, rapid regen, harness magicka, etc...

Basicly apply the dots with lotus, keep refreshing and the combat prayer buff up, keep swallow soul up. Idk.

IDK man, if you wanna go for a tanky route I'd prefer major protection in light armor over heavy armor resistance stacking every day. It cant be penetrated, applies to bleeds and results in roughly the same overall damage reduction.

I found the key to high survivability is haivng enough crit rating to let your hots tick high enough, that is siphoning attacks and dark cloak (which both aren't amplified by magicka/spellmg) and your overall healing is also pushed by damage done. Thus, light armor is way superior to heavy armor imo, even if you want to build tanky. Triune jewelry makes up for the loss in hp.

I agree in principal but haven’t figured out a way to get 100% uptime on major protection.

Other thing is offsetting damage with healing only works 1v1. Second you add BG aoe spam mitigation becomes more important. Basicly it’s so you have reaction time to escape/cloak. With 20k resists plus 10% buffer of the swift damage reduction shalks still hits for 5k, without enough mitigation you’ll die in one GCD.

Typical BG group tactic is to push the front line into the back line, then leap + shalks + DB (or ult dump). I’m just trying to figure out how to survive long enough to shade out.

Btw, what I linked was light armour. I agree the pen and sustain from light is definitely required

100% major protection buff is pretty tricky. In non-cloak builds, I'm always married to pirate skeleton as it also naturally reduced the burst you take and gives you a prolonged window for your hots to heal you up.

A really interesting combo is matching pirate skeleton with jorvulds, which actually puts you at 100% major protection and allows for some interesting synergies with the rest of the nightblade toolkit. I've ran that in combination with SPC and combat prayer to have really high buff uptimes for my group, but I dropped it when my offheal nightblade got reckt in nerfmire

I don’t like proc’d defensive sets because bad RNG will lead to a death, or I should say I don’t like relying on them for mitigation.

I never considered Jorvuld for pvp though thanks. Gives me an awesome idea for my Templar with jorvuld plus steadfast hero.

For those who want to change the major resolve/ward from using a shadow ability.... I don’t get it. How hard is it to use a shadowy ability every once in a while. That passive is a huge advantage for playing a NB, it gives us sooo much skill slot economy it’s crazy.