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Food change is unnecessary and pointless

  • mikemacon
    mikemacon
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    Oh noes! We will need to heavy attack for sustain now exactly as the devs always intended! The horror! The inhumanity!
  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    Lol I really didn't see this coming. Nobody complained about food being overpowered, and each food has its own unique purpose. Sure artaeum and dubious/witchmother's was popular, but they were the standard and everything else was to fit specific builds.
    It really didn't need a nerf. Not too late to change your mind ZOS.
    (sqweee )>--- ۜ\(סּںסּَ` )/ۜ
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    mikemacon wrote: »
    Oh noes! We will need to heavy attack for sustain now exactly as the devs always intended! The horror! The inhumanity!

    Once you've stopped being a clown, consider that some races (looking at Breton here) are already on top with blue food (that didn't undergo any change), no heavy attacks, no absorb glyph. And races like altmer/dunmer that used to be on par now suddenly, according to you, have to heavy attack or further nerf themselves by running health glyphs on armor.

    Lousy work on racial balancing is followed by an attempt to compensate that by a lousy work on food buffs, something that just turns whole this awkward lopsided construct onto the different side without fixing anything. Why am not surprised.
    Edited by John_Falstaff on April 18, 2019 11:15AM
  • Sheezabeast
    Sheezabeast
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    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?
    Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Shello2004 if you have crafting needs!
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • chetter_hummin
    chetter_hummin
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    stop crying about so little nerfs and check pts and live values for withmothers
    cihjj5ud3y03.png

    first is pts, second is live

    around 40 magicka lose. Oh, the horror! Cry some more rivers please about this nerf!
    Edited by chetter_hummin on April 18, 2019 11:38AM
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    stop crying about so little nerfs and check pts and live values for withmothers
    cihjj5ud3y03.png

    first is pts, second is live

    around 40 magicka lose. Oh, the horror! Cry some more rivers please about this nerf!

    You do realise that PTS is bugged probably? If they say there will be 12 and 15% nerf, this looks like bad implementation of the nerf. We won't stop "crying" because even slightes nerf is not needed. If anything golden food should have doubled time.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Blackers
    Blackers
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    stop crying about so little nerfs and check pts and live values for withmothers
    cihjj5ud3y03.png

    first is pts, second is live

    around 40 magicka lose. Oh, the horror! Cry some more rivers please about this nerf!

    Guess that's not so bad, what about the clockwork citrus filet?
    MagBlade / Templar Healer (PC/EU/DC)
  • chetter_hummin
    chetter_hummin
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    checked only withmothers and dubious
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @chetter_hummin , PTS values are bugged, don't correspond to declared values. Judging anything by how they're implemented on PTS is a mistake, since it's going to be fixed in next iterations of testing cycle.
  • Sheezabeast
    Sheezabeast
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    Just to be completely objective here, Masel didn’t say it was his idea. If it was....then it’s still a head-scratcher to me and would like to hear more from them about that discussion with ZOS.
    Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Shello2004 if you have crafting needs!
  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
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    I understand every one and mother is using Witchmother and Camoran (mostly because they're good while other options are not as good.hint hint) but i really don't get the nerf to gold food, sure gold food is great but it's also time consuming to get the mats and expensive to buy..... so it kinda.... should be great.

    at any rate this is a lame change.
    Edited by Lucky28 on April 18, 2019 2:04PM
    Invictus
  • Wolfahm
    Wolfahm
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    they buffed food on PTS before this reduce with out a note?

    Cause the parse food for exp is over 5k stat and 511 reco.. (4575 +457 live )
    and the purple/gold reco foods are like 100-200 less with the "15%" nerf
    Edited by Wolfahm on April 18, 2019 4:37PM
    MAKE KHAJIITS CRIT AGAIN!!!

    |Wolf Ahm the Unchained|
    - 4 Nightblades | 3 Stam/1 Mag -
    - 2 Templars | Stam/Healer -
    - 2 Sorc | Stam/Mag -
    - 2 Wardens | Stam/Mag -
    - 1 DK | Tank/Stam -
    || Aldmeri Dominion ||


  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    @Masel , nobody's blaming for the actual nerd, but you have been advocating against the stat density of the regen foods ever since racial changes in Wrathstone, blaming the regen food for the resulting racial imbalances. Feedback about the changes in the game is passed through the lens of class reps.

    Now we have to reap the consequences - instead of previous imbalances, we'll simply have another set of imbalances. Already strong sustain races like bretons will become even stronger. Previously balanced pure damage races like dunmer or altmer will fall behind. "A bit of both" races like khajiits that weren't on top to begin with will drop even lower.

    The reduction in set values was done in a small way for a reason, at the point where they are now the stat density they provide is in as much balance as possible, already taking the health difference into account.

    You can just add up the respective values. And to people complaining that gold food isnt worth it: you gain over 300 health recovery on top of other stats. Gold food like artaeum broth and clockwork filet do still provide quite a bit more stats than blue foods do. Adding their values up still leads to over 12k stat density, while blue food only has a little more than 10k overall. So dont say you're not getting anything in return for the cost, cause you objectively do. Whether the cost is justified for what you get is another issue.

    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.
    PC EU - CP 1200+ All trials + HM

    Intis Ravelen - Stamina Nightblade - Redguard - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Annisca Micus - Magicka Sorcerer - High Elf - DD - Flawless Conqueror & Voice of Reason
    Shéogórath - Stamina Dragonknight - Imperial - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Pilar Joranil - Magicka Dragonknight - High Elf - DD - Flawless Conqueror -
    Adeline Du Mont - Magicka Templar - High Elf - Healer & DD - Flawless Conqueror & Voice of Reason + Bringer of Light
    Olivia Thaloran - Magicka Nightblade - Dunmer - DD - Flawless Conqueror & Dro'mathra Destroyer & Voice of Reason
    Pu'jarr Ticklebeard - Stamina Sorcerer - Khajiit - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Treehugger Joe - Magicka Warden - High Elf - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Stuga Beluga - Stamina Templar - Orc - DD - Flawless Conqueror & Dro'mathra Destroyer
    Anna Terra - Stamina Warden - Redguard - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Wamasel - Dragonknight - Argonian - Tank - Flawless Conqueror + Bringer of Light
    Nord Warden - Warden - Nord - Tank - Flawless Conqueror

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  • Azyle1
    Azyle1
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    So it is indeed confirmed bugged on the PTS?
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @Masel , so how come Bretons were top dogs using food density of 10k, while altmers were only in line with them despite using food with density of 12k?

    As for health recovery, it's an utterly useless stat that was only used in certain niche builds (Troll King particularly), and those builds have been mostly killed off when khajiits were stripped of their 20% health recovery.
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    I vote to revert this change

    signed.
    Praetorian Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Kaalgrontiid
    Dragonhold 5.2.6 PvP : Heavy SnB/2H The Fervor
    Dragonhold 5.2.6 PvP : Medium SnB/2H The Dragon
    Dragonhold 5.2.6 PvE : Medium DW/2H TBD
  • Ajax_22
    Ajax_22
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    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.
  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    I hope they keep bloody mara as it is, it;s the gold version of blue food, why does it provide less?

    But on pts it provides slightly more.
    Edited by JinMori on April 18, 2019 6:04PM
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Health recovery is very useful in PVP and in solo content for stamina dps. Running regularly DCT/ATB, I may clearly say that stamina sustain is notably easier with ATB since it somewhat decreases frequency of vigor casts. If ATB was not so expensive I'll be using it as default on all stamina toons 24/7.
    Restart your router ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Grimlok_S
    Grimlok_S
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    Just like abomination cancelling food is not intended by devs and should be remove or ban of cheat!!

    Respect the hungry bow man playstyle
    Light Attack Hero

    Class context
    Stamplar
    StamDK
    MagDK
    StamMAGden
    Magplar
    Stamsorc
    Bow NB
    Bomb NB
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    If the values on PTS aren't bugged, then the changes are fine. If they are, then this throws magicka racial balance out the window. Breton becomes way too strong of a pick compared to Altmer/Dunmer.
  • paulychan
    paulychan
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    Coming soon to crown store : better food
  • acw37162
    acw37162
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    Agree, these foods were finally more widely useful.

    This is a change I don't understand or agree with.
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.
    Edited by Masel on April 18, 2019 9:24PM
    PC EU - CP 1200+ All trials + HM

    Intis Ravelen - Stamina Nightblade - Redguard - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Annisca Micus - Magicka Sorcerer - High Elf - DD - Flawless Conqueror & Voice of Reason
    Shéogórath - Stamina Dragonknight - Imperial - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Pilar Joranil - Magicka Dragonknight - High Elf - DD - Flawless Conqueror -
    Adeline Du Mont - Magicka Templar - High Elf - Healer & DD - Flawless Conqueror & Voice of Reason + Bringer of Light
    Olivia Thaloran - Magicka Nightblade - Dunmer - DD - Flawless Conqueror & Dro'mathra Destroyer & Voice of Reason
    Pu'jarr Ticklebeard - Stamina Sorcerer - Khajiit - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Treehugger Joe - Magicka Warden - High Elf - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Stuga Beluga - Stamina Templar - Orc - DD - Flawless Conqueror & Dro'mathra Destroyer
    Anna Terra - Stamina Warden - Redguard - DD - Flawless Conqueror
    Wamasel - Dragonknight - Argonian - Tank - Flawless Conqueror + Bringer of Light
    Nord Warden - Warden - Nord - Tank - Flawless Conqueror

    Youtube:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA
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