Food change is unnecessary and pointless

  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    It's only a loss of about ~200 health and ~200 magicka/stamina.

    They said 12% and 15% respectively. This makes sense in stamina department (since orc and dunmer were over-dpsing sustain races), but in magicka this will give additional edge to breton?

    This is from my game (unless it's bugged):

    PTS:

    KrRIKoi.jpg

    Live:

    TClrJPz.jpg

    unless my math is wrong that is only a 4.4% decrease in hp and a 5.6% decrease of magicka. Better yet, a 11.9% inc
    crease
    in sustain.

    What level was your character on PTS?

    That matters little as the food scales with you, I just took 3724/3570, 3458/3272 and 357/319 from the images posted.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    It's only a loss of about ~200 health and ~200 magicka/stamina.

    They said 12% and 15% respectively. This makes sense in stamina department (since orc and dunmer were over-dpsing sustain races), but in magicka this will give additional edge to breton?

    This is from my game (unless it's bugged):

    PTS:

    KrRIKoi.jpg

    Live:

    TClrJPz.jpg

    unless my math is wrong that is only a 4.4% decrease in hp and a 5.6% decrease of magicka. Better yet, a 11.9% inc
    crease
    in sustain.

    What level was your character on PTS?

    That matters little as the food scales with you, I just took 3724/3570, 3458/3272 and 357/319 from the images posted.

    Yes but scaling works strangely on live to. My 10 lvl characters can get more stats from food like witchmothers than the ones with max lvl.
    Edited by Mayrael on April 19, 2019 4:13AM
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    Class reps are both. And this sort of response is what makes being a class rep such a thankless job, and that is what it is, a job that they do not get paid for, they have to be this middle ground and get crapped on by both sides. I do not envy them.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 19, 2019 4:24AM
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    It's only a loss of about ~200 health and ~200 magicka/stamina.

    They said 12% and 15% respectively. This makes sense in stamina department (since orc and dunmer were over-dpsing sustain races), but in magicka this will give additional edge to breton?

    This is from my game (unless it's bugged):

    PTS:

    KrRIKoi.jpg

    Live:

    TClrJPz.jpg

    unless my math is wrong that is only a 4.4% decrease in hp and a 5.6% decrease of magicka. Better yet, a 11.9% inc
    crease
    in sustain.

    What level was your character on PTS?

    That matters little as the food scales with you, I just took 3724/3570, 3458/3272 and 357/319 from the images posted.

    Yes but scaling works strangely on live to. My 10 lvl characters can get more stats from food like witchmothers than the ones with max lvl.

    My food is max level and my character is max level on both PTS and live.

    It appears the food on PTS is scaling with something while it doesn't scale with anything on live, hence why it's only a loss of about 200 resource and a gain of around 40 regen.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 19, 2019 4:41AM
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    Elong wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.

    I'm sorry but if you think 300 health recovery is a big deal in pvp then you are out of touch with who you are representing.

    Am I? I'm interested in how you want to know the opinion of the majority of the playerbase on that. And you willfully ignored the more important part of my statement. The stat is there and has to be factored in when balancing that food, period.
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  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    I dont defend anyone. You seem to have very little faith in what we do, and nothing I say will change it until I say what exactly matches your own personal opinion.

    I'm sorry, but have some of you here wondered why half of us dont even post on the forums? Whatever we say on here, someone is going to feel not represented, jump at us, rage or whatever. I'm starting to feel that more and more, and I dont like it one bit. I dont act like a politician, but you treat me like one. In the role that we have, we can basically only say universally agreeable things like "being poor is bad".

    We got a lot of feedback from the playerbase that these foods were in fact too strong and basically best on any build, since they provided a "Jack of all trades" option, especially in PvP. We then hand that feedback to the devs. It is not my personal agenda to nerf these foods whatsoever. But I can understand why it happened from a balancing perspective. If you disagree with it it's fine, I can and will deliver that feedback, but your attitude doesnt help at all.

    The primary reason why this food seems "OP" is that orcs as a race are OP.

    Orcs get +1000 max health and +300 heatlh regen as racial passives. Coupled with gold food, that's 4700 health and 600 health regen.

    The food wasn't a problem on any other race.

    On the magicka side, Breton becomes too strong of a choice versus Altmer/Dunmer after these changes. They will have the same or greater damage and more survivability.

    The passive you are talking about is not health recovery, it is a heal. You can think about it as health recovery but in actually it is a 600 heal every 4 seconds, if you use a weapon ablitys off cooldown.
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    I dont defend anyone. You seem to have very little faith in what we do, and nothing I say will change it until I say what exactly matches your own personal opinion.

    I'm sorry, but have some of you here wondered why half of us dont even post on the forums? Whatever we say on here, someone is going to feel not represented, jump at us, rage or whatever. I'm starting to feel that more and more, and I dont like it one bit. I dont act like a politician, but you treat me like one. In the role that we have, we can basically only say universally agreeable things like "being poor is bad".

    We got a lot of feedback from the playerbase that these foods were in fact too strong and basically best on any build, since they provided a "Jack of all trades" option, especially in PvP. We then hand that feedback to the devs. It is not my personal agenda to nerf these foods whatsoever. But I can understand why it happened from a balancing perspective. If you disagree with it it's fine, I can and will deliver that feedback, but your attitude doesnt help at all.

    The primary reason why this food seems "OP" is that orcs as a race are OP.

    Orcs get +1000 max health and +300 heatlh regen as racial passives. Coupled with gold food, that's 4700 health and 600 health regen.

    The food wasn't a problem on any other race.

    On the magicka side, Breton becomes too strong of a choice versus Altmer/Dunmer after these changes. They will have the same or greater damage and more survivability.

    The passive you are talking about is not health recovery, it is a heal. You can think about it as health recovery but in actually it is a 600 heal every 4 seconds, if you use a weapon ablitys off cooldown.

    That's 9000 health per minute, or 300 every 2s (which makes it the equivalent of 300 health regen).
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 19, 2019 6:58AM
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Masel wrote: »
    Elong wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.

    I'm sorry but if you think 300 health recovery is a big deal in pvp then you are out of touch with who you are representing.

    Am I? I'm interested in how you want to know the opinion of the majority of the playerbase on that. And you willfully ignored the more important part of my statement. The stat is there and has to be factored in when balancing that food, period.

    It's only really a problem when combined with Orcs who already have +300 health regen as a racial passive. Gold food gives them +650 health regen.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 19, 2019 7:00AM
  • Ashtaris
    Ashtaris
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    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    I dont defend anyone. You seem to have very little faith in what we do, and nothing I say will change it until I say what exactly matches your own personal opinion.

    I'm sorry, but have some of you here wondered why half of us dont even post on the forums? Whatever we say on here, someone is going to feel not represented, jump at us, rage or whatever. I'm starting to feel that more and more, and I dont like it one bit. I dont act like a politician, but you treat me like one. In the role that we have, we can basically only say universally agreeable things like "being poor is bad".

    We got a lot of feedback from the playerbase that these foods were in fact too strong and basically best on any build, since they provided a "Jack of all trades" option, especially in PvP. We then hand that feedback to the devs. It is not my personal agenda to nerf these foods whatsoever. But I can understand why it happened from a balancing perspective. If you disagree with it it's fine, I can and will deliver that feedback, but your attitude doesnt help at all.

    I guess I’ll have to do an extended search, or maybe you can point out here in the forums where people were complaining that food/drink buffs were too OP’d because I sure don’t remember reading anything of that nature, and I read the forums quite often. Guess I missed it.
    If there is one race that has too much regen or base stats, like Orc’s for example, then perhaps it might be best to look at what could be done to tone down that race a bit instead of nerfing everyone else’s food/drink buffs?
    Edited by Ashtaris on April 19, 2019 7:15AM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    I dont defend anyone. You seem to have very little faith in what we do, and nothing I say will change it until I say what exactly matches your own personal opinion.

    I'm sorry, but have some of you here wondered why half of us dont even post on the forums? Whatever we say on here, someone is going to feel not represented, jump at us, rage or whatever. I'm starting to feel that more and more, and I dont like it one bit. I dont act like a politician, but you treat me like one. In the role that we have, we can basically only say universally agreeable things like "being poor is bad".

    We got a lot of feedback from the playerbase that these foods were in fact too strong and basically best on any build, since they provided a "Jack of all trades" option, especially in PvP. We then hand that feedback to the devs. It is not my personal agenda to nerf these foods whatsoever. But I can understand why it happened from a balancing perspective. If you disagree with it it's fine, I can and will deliver that feedback, but your attitude doesnt help at all.

    The primary reason why this food seems "OP" is that orcs as a race are OP.

    Orcs get +1000 max health and +300 heatlh regen as racial passives. Coupled with gold food, that's 4700 health and 600 health regen.

    The food wasn't a problem on any other race.

    On the magicka side, Breton becomes too strong of a choice versus Altmer/Dunmer after these changes. They will have the same or greater damage and more survivability.

    The passive you are talking about is not health recovery, it is a heal. You can think about it as health recovery but in actually it is a 600 heal every 4 seconds, if you use a weapon ablitys off cooldown.

    That's 9000 health per minute, or 300 every 2s (which makes it the equivalent of 300 health regen).

    It is not actually health regen. It is a heal. A proc heal.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    I dont defend anyone. You seem to have very little faith in what we do, and nothing I say will change it until I say what exactly matches your own personal opinion.

    I'm sorry, but have some of you here wondered why half of us dont even post on the forums? Whatever we say on here, someone is going to feel not represented, jump at us, rage or whatever. I'm starting to feel that more and more, and I dont like it one bit. I dont act like a politician, but you treat me like one. In the role that we have, we can basically only say universally agreeable things like "being poor is bad".

    We got a lot of feedback from the playerbase that these foods were in fact too strong and basically best on any build, since they provided a "Jack of all trades" option, especially in PvP. We then hand that feedback to the devs. It is not my personal agenda to nerf these foods whatsoever. But I can understand why it happened from a balancing perspective. If you disagree with it it's fine, I can and will deliver that feedback, but your attitude doesnt help at all.

    Ok, show me that feedback then. Because from what I see on the forums nobody likes those changes, most of the posters doesn't like the change. If what you say would be true we would have a discussions where most of the players would be ok with that change, but somehow it's the other way. Prove me I'm wrong, because as for now we have more evidence of negative feedback on those changes.

    Logic reasons. Legendary equipment provides better stats than the blue, it's much much harder to get but it's definitely much better! We need to nerf it so it will be on pair with common gear! This what devs did with food. There is no reason to spend thousands of gold to use golden food when I can achieve the same with blue one.

    If there is a balance issue with food (which can be used by anyone) and race, then IMHO we should adjust race because changing food affects everyone meaning power balance remained the same for everyone who uses gold food, it's just better for the ones who use blue food. So in the end binding food nerf and race changes is invalid argument, let me explain it to you on simple example:

    OP Race + Gold food = 12
    Other races + Gold food = 11
    OP Race + Blue food = 11
    Other races + Blue food = 10

    After nerf we have:
    OP Race + Gold food = 11
    Other races + Gold food = 10
    OP Race + Blue food = 11
    Other races + Blue food = 10

    So as you see this change doesn't balance things out, because OPness problem lies somewhere else.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Elong wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.

    I'm sorry but if you think 300 health recovery is a big deal in pvp then you are out of touch with who you are representing.

    Lol, that's why Alessian set became so popular after rebalance at U21.
    https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=2711&SearchType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=Alessian+Cuirass&ItemTraitID=9

    You may then tell then that 129 stam/mag recovery means nothing in PVP. Come on, it's only ~1000 more stamina or magicka in 10 seconds, trash, nothing :D
    Restart your router ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Logic reasons. Legendary equipment provides better stats than the blue, it's much much harder to get but it's definitely much better! We need to nerf it so it will be on pair with common gear! This what devs did with food. There is no reason to spend thousands of gold to use golden food when I can achieve the same with blue one.

    You can't achieve the same with blue food, and that's actually the problem. The only race that can use blue food is Breton.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 19, 2019 7:52AM
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    I dont defend anyone. You seem to have very little faith in what we do, and nothing I say will change it until I say what exactly matches your own personal opinion.

    I'm sorry, but have some of you here wondered why half of us dont even post on the forums? Whatever we say on here, someone is going to feel not represented, jump at us, rage or whatever. I'm starting to feel that more and more, and I dont like it one bit. I dont act like a politician, but you treat me like one. In the role that we have, we can basically only say universally agreeable things like "being poor is bad".

    We got a lot of feedback from the playerbase that these foods were in fact too strong and basically best on any build, since they provided a "Jack of all trades" option, especially in PvP. We then hand that feedback to the devs. It is not my personal agenda to nerf these foods whatsoever. But I can understand why it happened from a balancing perspective. If you disagree with it it's fine, I can and will deliver that feedback, but your attitude doesnt help at all.

    The primary reason why this food seems "OP" is that orcs as a race are OP.

    Orcs get +1000 max health and +300 heatlh regen as racial passives. Coupled with gold food, that's 4700 health and 600 health regen.

    The food wasn't a problem on any other race.

    On the magicka side, Breton becomes too strong of a choice versus Altmer/Dunmer after these changes. They will have the same or greater damage and more survivability.

    The passive you are talking about is not health recovery, it is a heal. You can think about it as health recovery but in actually it is a 600 heal every 4 seconds, if you use a weapon ablitys off cooldown.

    That's 9000 health per minute, or 300 every 2s (which makes it the equivalent of 300 health regen).

    It is not actually health regen. It is a heal. A proc heal.

    No, it's not regen, but it's the equivalent of 300 health regen. That's all that matters in this case.
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Elong wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.

    I'm sorry but if you think 300 health recovery is a big deal in pvp then you are out of touch with who you are representing.

    Lol, that's why Alessian set became so popular after rebalance at U21.
    https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=2711&SearchType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=Alessian+Cuirass&ItemTraitID=9

    You may then tell then that 129 stam/mag recovery means nothing in PVP. Come on, it's only ~1000 more stamina or magicka in 10 seconds, trash, nothing :D

    It's incorrect to compare stam recovery and health recovery directly. It'd only be correct if we didn't have healing abilities - which effectively convert stamina/magicka into health with far more efficiency. Rapid Regen can give you 15-20 points of health per every point of magicka you spend, and at the rate that corresponds to ~3.2k health recovery tooltip (and I didn't even count critical healing ticks here - they're certainly going to be there). Feel the difference.
    Edited by John_Falstaff on April 19, 2019 8:07AM
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Elong wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.

    I'm sorry but if you think 300 health recovery is a big deal in pvp then you are out of touch with who you are representing.

    Lol, that's why Alessian set became so popular after rebalance at U21.
    https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=2711&SearchType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=Alessian+Cuirass&ItemTraitID=9

    You may then tell then that 129 stam/mag recovery means nothing in PVP. Come on, it's only ~1000 more stamina or magicka in 10 seconds, trash, nothing :D

    It's incorrect to compare stam recovery and health recovery directly. It'd only be correct if we didn't have healing abilities - which effectively convert stamina/magicka into health with far more efficiency. Rapid Regen can give you 15-20 points of health per every point of magicka you spend, and at the rate that corresponds to ~3.2k health recovery tooltip (and I didn't even count critical healing ticks here - they're certainly going to be there). Feel the difference.
    Ok, I don't have PVP healer so I don't know tooltip on mutagen in no-CP PVP. But my vigor tooltip is ~18k with major mending active. Now let's add bonus for average crit +20% on non-crit build, and fact that healing is halved we'll have ~2-2.5k healing per second for 3160 stamina for 5 seconds. Conversion rate is 1 to 5 at best case, i.e. with major mending and healing received bonuses.
    And it takes slot, and requires action to be casted, so you are not cc'd and you will also miss one offensive GCD to cast it. 350 health recovery with modifiers ends up in 500 recovery, which means 250 per second without any additional expenses, simply from golden food active. So it's ~10% of buffed vigor for free. Vigor cost per second is ~625, which is equivalent of 1250 stamina recovery.
    Conclusion 350 health recovery converts to at least 125 stamina recovery, doesn't require slot, works always no matter what. Now if you are in heavy armor vigor will cost more and heal less. If you don't have major mending healing will be less etc..
    ^Tl;DR - at the smallest possible case 350 base health recovery converts to 1 set bonus.

    So golden food even after nerf will be:
    3 set bonuses for resource, 3 set bonuses for health, 3 set bonuses for resource recovery and 1 set bonus for health recovery =10. Now on live 10.5+.
    DCT/Witchbrew:
    3 set bonuses for resource, 3 set bonuses for health, 3 set bonuses for resource recovery = 9. Now on live 9.5+
    Now blue food: 5 set bonuses for resource, 4.5 set bonuses for health and in PVE gives you more health then you actually need especially on rase with HP bonus, or if you use Skoria etc... anyway it's 9.5 set bonuses and in PVE more like 9.

    So ZOS evens out "normal" food, and gold food still have nice bonus to health recovery in VMA, BG, small-scale PVP etc. If you run with pocket healer who can't kill anybody, then yes it's rather pointless to run gold food you may save your money.

    edit: adjusted numbers
    Edited by MartiniDaniels on April 19, 2019 9:04AM
    Restart your router ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    ✭✭✭
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Logic reasons. Legendary equipment provides better stats than the blue, it's much much harder to get but it's definitely much better! We need to nerf it so it will be on pair with common gear! This what devs did with food. There is no reason to spend thousands of gold to use golden food when I can achieve the same with blue one.

    You can't achieve the same with blue food, and that's actually the problem. The only race that can use blue food is Breton.

    And what's the difference between blue and gold? What's the cost of using gold food vs blue food? Don't you think if something is 100x more expensive it should be at least slightly better? I understand that gold food became BiS for almost everyone but isn't it the point of the most expensive item in its category? If not what's the point of spending thousands when I can simply adjust everything using enchants and have the same if not better effect?

    There will always be BiS food/potion/set for certain playstyle. If you even the golden and blue food new BiS will be blue food because of economical reasons making golden one underperforming.
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

    Mael Nightshadow - that's all you need to know.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    I dont defend anyone. You seem to have very little faith in what we do, and nothing I say will change it until I say what exactly matches your own personal opinion.

    I'm sorry, but have some of you here wondered why half of us dont even post on the forums? Whatever we say on here, someone is going to feel not represented, jump at us, rage or whatever. I'm starting to feel that more and more, and I dont like it one bit. I dont act like a politician, but you treat me like one. In the role that we have, we can basically only say universally agreeable things like "being poor is bad".

    We got a lot of feedback from the playerbase that these foods were in fact too strong and basically best on any build, since they provided a "Jack of all trades" option, especially in PvP. We then hand that feedback to the devs. It is not my personal agenda to nerf these foods whatsoever. But I can understand why it happened from a balancing perspective. If you disagree with it it's fine, I can and will deliver that feedback, but your attitude doesnt help at all.

    The primary reason why this food seems "OP" is that orcs as a race are OP.

    Orcs get +1000 max health and +300 heatlh regen as racial passives. Coupled with gold food, that's 4700 health and 600 health regen.

    The food wasn't a problem on any other race.

    On the magicka side, Breton becomes too strong of a choice versus Altmer/Dunmer after these changes. They will have the same or greater damage and more survivability.

    The passive you are talking about is not health recovery, it is a heal. You can think about it as health recovery but in actually it is a 600 heal every 4 seconds, if you use a weapon ablitys off cooldown.

    That's 9000 health per minute, or 300 every 2s (which makes it the equivalent of 300 health regen).

    It is not actually health regen. It is a heal. A proc heal.

    No, it's not regen, but it's the equivalent of 300 health regen. That's all that matters in this case.

    Health regen is up 100%. Health regen is not cut in half in PvP. Health regen can't crit. Heals can be amped in more ways. The heal from that passive is only every 4 seconds, in best case. Really, you ought to be comparing it do a set that heals, like Knight-Errant's Mail, not a set that gives health regen.
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Logic reasons. Legendary equipment provides better stats than the blue, it's much much harder to get but it's definitely much better! We need to nerf it so it will be on pair with common gear! This what devs did with food. There is no reason to spend thousands of gold to use golden food when I can achieve the same with blue one.

    You can't achieve the same with blue food, and that's actually the problem. The only race that can use blue food is Breton.

    And what's the difference between blue and gold? What's the cost of using gold food vs blue food? Don't you think if something is 100x more expensive it should be at least slightly better? I understand that gold food became BiS for almost everyone but isn't it the point of the most expensive item in its category? If not what's the point of spending thousands when I can simply adjust everything using enchants and have the same if not better effect?

    There will always be BiS food/potion/set for certain playstyle. If you even the golden and blue food new BiS will be blue food because of economical reasons making golden one underperforming.

    The difference is 1478 magicka, or ~140 spell damage. You were already giving up damage for sustain by going with gold food. Not to mention a single portion of gold food costs around ~2k (on PC/NA).

    You also give up 1671 health by going with gold food so your survivability takes a noticeable hit too (unless you're an orc).
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 19, 2019 10:22AM
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Elong wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.

    I'm sorry but if you think 300 health recovery is a big deal in pvp then you are out of touch with who you are representing.

    Lol, that's why Alessian set became so popular after rebalance at U21.
    https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=2711&SearchType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=Alessian+Cuirass&ItemTraitID=9

    You may then tell then that 129 stam/mag recovery means nothing in PVP. Come on, it's only ~1000 more stamina or magicka in 10 seconds, trash, nothing :D

    It's incorrect to compare stam recovery and health recovery directly. It'd only be correct if we didn't have healing abilities - which effectively convert stamina/magicka into health with far more efficiency. Rapid Regen can give you 15-20 points of health per every point of magicka you spend, and at the rate that corresponds to ~3.2k health recovery tooltip (and I didn't even count critical healing ticks here - they're certainly going to be there). Feel the difference.
    Ok, I don't have PVP healer so I don't know tooltip on mutagen in no-CP PVP. But my vigor tooltip is ~18k with major mending active. Now let's add bonus for average crit +20% on non-crit build, and fact that healing is halved we'll have ~2-2.5k healing per second for 3160 stamina for 5 seconds. Conversion rate is 1 to 5 at best case, i.e. with major mending and healing received bonuses.
    And it takes slot, and requires action to be casted, so you are not cc'd and you will also miss one offensive GCD to cast it. 350 health recovery with modifiers ends up in 500 recovery, which means 250 per second without any additional expenses, simply from golden food active. So it's ~10% of buffed vigor for free. Vigor cost per second is ~625, which is equivalent of 1250 stamina recovery.
    Conclusion 350 health recovery converts to at least 125 stamina recovery, doesn't require slot, works always no matter what. Now if you are in heavy armor vigor will cost more and heal less. If you don't have major mending healing will be less etc..
    ^Tl;DR - at the smallest possible case 350 base health recovery converts to 1 set bonus.

    So golden food even after nerf will be:
    3 set bonuses for resource, 3 set bonuses for health, 3 set bonuses for resource recovery and 1 set bonus for health recovery =10. Now on live 10.5+.
    DCT/Witchbrew:
    3 set bonuses for resource, 3 set bonuses for health, 3 set bonuses for resource recovery = 9. Now on live 9.5+
    Now blue food: 5 set bonuses for resource, 4.5 set bonuses for health and in PVE gives you more health then you actually need especially on rase with HP bonus, or if you use Skoria etc... anyway it's 9.5 set bonuses and in PVE more like 9.

    So ZOS evens out "normal" food, and gold food still have nice bonus to health recovery in VMA, BG, small-scale PVP etc. If you run with pocket healer who can't kill anybody, then yes it's rather pointless to run gold food you may save your money.

    edit: adjusted numbers

    Selling it short there. I have seen Vigor tooltips of more than 30k (in Cyro with Mending active), and that's not even the most efficient resource conversion tool. Rally can have total tooltip of 24k for 2796 stamina, pushes it to ~9 health/stamina ratio from your 5 (so equivalent health regen drops to ~70). If you're in a group, it's even more hairy because your Vigor will give healing to everyone else as well, resulting in more efficient conversion; in a group you will also likely have healer, and RR (also an AoE heal) will have ~27k tooltip for less than 1.5k magicka. And keep in mind that even on non-crit build, you won't have less than 30% crit in any normal scenario.

    I also don't see a point in bringing the necessity of using a GCD and skill slot. In a combat encounter where you're counting GCDs, you sure will not find 0.25k health gain per second any kind of useful, unlike 2.5k from an active HoT. I mean, since you do want to bring actual combat (in addition to pure efficiency of conversion), then you have to take that into consideration - health recovery is a HoT ticking at least 10 times weaker than Vigor, and it doesn't help you that it also ticks when you're riding around Cyrodiil for an hour. It will do nothing when you're under pressure.
  • Kurat
    Kurat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nerfing food is absolutely unnecessary. It only makes certain races like Breton even more stronger and basically the only option for magica toon.
    But if Zos absolutely feels the need to nerf something (God forbid a new chapter/dlc without any ridiculous nerfs), then they should at least leave gold food as is and nerf only purple. The difference between them is already too small and all gold quality stuff supposed to be the best. If they go ahead as planned then why would anyone use gold food. The price is way higher and stats basically identical. Yes I know the health recovery, but that's bs. All classes have strong heals built in skills and that little recovery is not gonna save you if you gonna die anyway.
    Gold food comes with price, so it makes sense that it remains the best for endgame players. Otherwise you better give out another punch of free race change tokens coz everyone wanna change to Breton and Redguard if they haven't already.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    ✭✭
    To defend Masel here a, there WERE voices last patch claiming gold food was overloaded. I do recall that.
    Think the racial changes kinda worked that out now. The only real problem is orc health, it really is a unique and overpowered advantage if you couple it with the gold food. And people said so last patch. ZOS are trying to hit two birds with one nuclear bomb, but it's not up to date anymore.
    From a PvP perspective, I think blue bistat food is the most desirable on mag builds. But TRISTAT food for what it gives you, considering all three stats are needed (mag), is HEAVILY overloaded.
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Elong wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.

    I'm sorry but if you think 300 health recovery is a big deal in pvp then you are out of touch with who you are representing.

    Lol, that's why Alessian set became so popular after rebalance at U21.
    https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=2711&SearchType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=Alessian+Cuirass&ItemTraitID=9

    You may then tell then that 129 stam/mag recovery means nothing in PVP. Come on, it's only ~1000 more stamina or magicka in 10 seconds, trash, nothing :D

    It's incorrect to compare stam recovery and health recovery directly. It'd only be correct if we didn't have healing abilities - which effectively convert stamina/magicka into health with far more efficiency. Rapid Regen can give you 15-20 points of health per every point of magicka you spend, and at the rate that corresponds to ~3.2k health recovery tooltip (and I didn't even count critical healing ticks here - they're certainly going to be there). Feel the difference.
    Ok, I don't have PVP healer so I don't know tooltip on mutagen in no-CP PVP. But my vigor tooltip is ~18k with major mending active. Now let's add bonus for average crit +20% on non-crit build, and fact that healing is halved we'll have ~2-2.5k healing per second for 3160 stamina for 5 seconds. Conversion rate is 1 to 5 at best case, i.e. with major mending and healing received bonuses.
    And it takes slot, and requires action to be casted, so you are not cc'd and you will also miss one offensive GCD to cast it. 350 health recovery with modifiers ends up in 500 recovery, which means 250 per second without any additional expenses, simply from golden food active. So it's ~10% of buffed vigor for free. Vigor cost per second is ~625, which is equivalent of 1250 stamina recovery.
    Conclusion 350 health recovery converts to at least 125 stamina recovery, doesn't require slot, works always no matter what. Now if you are in heavy armor vigor will cost more and heal less. If you don't have major mending healing will be less etc..
    ^Tl;DR - at the smallest possible case 350 base health recovery converts to 1 set bonus.

    So golden food even after nerf will be:
    3 set bonuses for resource, 3 set bonuses for health, 3 set bonuses for resource recovery and 1 set bonus for health recovery =10. Now on live 10.5+.
    DCT/Witchbrew:
    3 set bonuses for resource, 3 set bonuses for health, 3 set bonuses for resource recovery = 9. Now on live 9.5+
    Now blue food: 5 set bonuses for resource, 4.5 set bonuses for health and in PVE gives you more health then you actually need especially on rase with HP bonus, or if you use Skoria etc... anyway it's 9.5 set bonuses and in PVE more like 9.

    So ZOS evens out "normal" food, and gold food still have nice bonus to health recovery in VMA, BG, small-scale PVP etc. If you run with pocket healer who can't kill anybody, then yes it's rather pointless to run gold food you may save your money.

    edit: adjusted numbers

    Selling it short there. I have seen Vigor tooltips of more than 30k (in Cyro with Mending active), and that's not even the most efficient resource conversion tool. Rally can have total tooltip of 24k for 2796 stamina, pushes it to ~9 health/stamina ratio from your 5 (so equivalent health regen drops to ~70). If you're in a group, it's even more hairy because your Vigor will give healing to everyone else as well, resulting in more efficient conversion; in a group you will also likely have healer, and RR (also an AoE heal) will have ~27k tooltip for less than 1.5k magicka. And keep in mind that even on non-crit build, you won't have less than 30% crit in any normal scenario.

    I also don't see a point in bringing the necessity of using a GCD and skill slot. In a combat encounter where you're counting GCDs, you sure will not find 0.25k health gain per second any kind of useful, unlike 2.5k from an active HoT. I mean, since you do want to bring actual combat (in addition to pure efficiency of conversion), then you have to take that into consideration - health recovery is a HoT ticking at least 10 times weaker than Vigor, and it doesn't help you that it also ticks when you're riding around Cyrodiil for an hour. It will do nothing when you're under pressure.

    Rally need to be "gathered" for long to be that high. Fact that somebody min-maxed 30k vigor tooltip means nothing, there are tons of way to cheese that. We may min-max health recovery to the extreme too, i'm talking about real tooltip in balanced build.
    And even in PVE where healing is not halved, this extra recovery is noticeable if you don't have healer spamming healing rotation in your direction. I use only DCT and ATB, and never blue food even on sustain races. On live DCT is superior to blue food, and ATB superior to DCT. With this nerf DCT will be comparable to blue food and ATB will be slightly better. And those ticks means a lot. Over 10 seconds it's +3k health. How many time you survived on 3k HP both in PVP and PVE? Countless times.
    To summarize - if you are not a healer and need to heal yourself, health recovery matters. It doesn't replace healing when healing burst is needed, it allows to use healing slightly less and so improves overall sustain.
    Restart your router ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Elong wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Ajax_22 wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    If health recovery is not a stat players value is on their end, but 300 health recovery is quite useful in pvp fron what I hear.

    No it's not. You could remove health recovery from gold food completely, and no one would notice or care. We ran gold food because it had more max stats than Witch Mother's/Dubious. With that gap between those foods and drinks closed most people won't find it worth the price.

    I think you might have quite a few players disagreeing with that. Especially with the race against time change you might have less players being vampire and thus getting more out of the health recovery. It is free health every 2 seconds after all that isnt affected by battle spirit. Whether you value it or not, the stat health recovery is there and has to be factored into the balancing done to these foods.

    I'm sorry but if you think 300 health recovery is a big deal in pvp then you are out of touch with who you are representing.

    Lol, that's why Alessian set became so popular after rebalance at U21.
    https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=2711&SearchType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=Alessian+Cuirass&ItemTraitID=9

    You may then tell then that 129 stam/mag recovery means nothing in PVP. Come on, it's only ~1000 more stamina or magicka in 10 seconds, trash, nothing :D

    It's incorrect to compare stam recovery and health recovery directly. It'd only be correct if we didn't have healing abilities - which effectively convert stamina/magicka into health with far more efficiency. Rapid Regen can give you 15-20 points of health per every point of magicka you spend, and at the rate that corresponds to ~3.2k health recovery tooltip (and I didn't even count critical healing ticks here - they're certainly going to be there). Feel the difference.
    Ok, I don't have PVP healer so I don't know tooltip on mutagen in no-CP PVP. But my vigor tooltip is ~18k with major mending active. Now let's add bonus for average crit +20% on non-crit build, and fact that healing is halved we'll have ~2-2.5k healing per second for 3160 stamina for 5 seconds. Conversion rate is 1 to 5 at best case, i.e. with major mending and healing received bonuses.
    And it takes slot, and requires action to be casted, so you are not cc'd and you will also miss one offensive GCD to cast it. 350 health recovery with modifiers ends up in 500 recovery, which means 250 per second without any additional expenses, simply from golden food active. So it's ~10% of buffed vigor for free. Vigor cost per second is ~625, which is equivalent of 1250 stamina recovery.
    Conclusion 350 health recovery converts to at least 125 stamina recovery, doesn't require slot, works always no matter what. Now if you are in heavy armor vigor will cost more and heal less. If you don't have major mending healing will be less etc..
    ^Tl;DR - at the smallest possible case 350 base health recovery converts to 1 set bonus.

    So golden food even after nerf will be:
    3 set bonuses for resource, 3 set bonuses for health, 3 set bonuses for resource recovery and 1 set bonus for health recovery =10. Now on live 10.5+.
    DCT/Witchbrew:
    3 set bonuses for resource, 3 set bonuses for health, 3 set bonuses for resource recovery = 9. Now on live 9.5+
    Now blue food: 5 set bonuses for resource, 4.5 set bonuses for health and in PVE gives you more health then you actually need especially on rase with HP bonus, or if you use Skoria etc... anyway it's 9.5 set bonuses and in PVE more like 9.

    So ZOS evens out "normal" food, and gold food still have nice bonus to health recovery in VMA, BG, small-scale PVP etc. If you run with pocket healer who can't kill anybody, then yes it's rather pointless to run gold food you may save your money.

    edit: adjusted numbers

    Selling it short there. I have seen Vigor tooltips of more than 30k (in Cyro with Mending active), and that's not even the most efficient resource conversion tool. Rally can have total tooltip of 24k for 2796 stamina, pushes it to ~9 health/stamina ratio from your 5 (so equivalent health regen drops to ~70). If you're in a group, it's even more hairy because your Vigor will give healing to everyone else as well, resulting in more efficient conversion; in a group you will also likely have healer, and RR (also an AoE heal) will have ~27k tooltip for less than 1.5k magicka. And keep in mind that even on non-crit build, you won't have less than 30% crit in any normal scenario.

    I also don't see a point in bringing the necessity of using a GCD and skill slot. In a combat encounter where you're counting GCDs, you sure will not find 0.25k health gain per second any kind of useful, unlike 2.5k from an active HoT. I mean, since you do want to bring actual combat (in addition to pure efficiency of conversion), then you have to take that into consideration - health recovery is a HoT ticking at least 10 times weaker than Vigor, and it doesn't help you that it also ticks when you're riding around Cyrodiil for an hour. It will do nothing when you're under pressure.

    Rally need to be "gathered" for long to be that high. Fact that somebody min-maxed 30k vigor tooltip means nothing, there are tons of way to cheese that. We may min-max health recovery to the extreme too, i'm talking about real tooltip in balanced build.
    And even in PVE where healing is not halved, this extra recovery is noticeable if you don't have healer spamming healing rotation in your direction. I use only DCT and ATB, and never blue food even on sustain races. On live DCT is superior to blue food, and ATB superior to DCT. With this nerf DCT will be comparable to blue food and ATB will be slightly better. And those ticks means a lot. Over 10 seconds it's +3k health. How many time you survived on 3k HP both in PVP and PVE? Countless times.
    To summarize - if you are not a healer and need to heal yourself, health recovery matters. It doesn't replace healing when healing burst is needed, it allows to use healing slightly less and so improves overall sustain.

    Normal, viable (and published during last few months if I remember correctly) PvP build. You very well know that Vigor scales off the same stats as regular damaging abilities. Higher healing ticks, higher damage ticks. And what do min-maxed health recovery builds do to increase recovery tooltip? Nope, not build up weapon damage and max stat. They drop combat stats for recovery (including the sacrifice of offensive monster set for Troll King). And even so you need an external source of healing to get Troll King going. Difference. Outside of those niche builds, health recovery is moot.

    I'm not sure how do you measure "noticeable" and "means a lot" - sounds like placebo effect to me. You use Vigor because you need 2.5k health next second instead of 3k health in ten seconds when you're dead on the ground. And that's not to mention that while you're at 3k health, your're remaining in execute range, susceptible to Impale, Tornado, bloodthirsty jewelry and what have you. There are no use cases for health recovery. You need your health back right after you lost it, not after a minute, because in no situation you can guarantee you won't get a damage spike inside that minute. So you go and overheal right away, and for that - you guessed right - you need to invest into stamina/magicka recovery instead.

    No, health recovery does not matter. At all.
  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Did the class reps even get told about this? If you were a tester under nda or a class rep, could you explain how ZOS came to this idea and how they rationalize it?

    @Sheezabeast actually class reps (e.g. Masel) was the ones who pushed this change. Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    So much wrong over there. This change was done by the devs, not by us. I merely explained the reasoning behind it. Or where did I say: yeah i told them to nerf these foods, and they did it specifically because i did that. C'mon...

    Somehow you defend the devs not the players you should represent. You're not a class rep to support devs but to pass them our worries and ideas. You are PLEAYERS REPRESENTATIVE NOT DEVS REPRESENTATIVE.

    We got a lot of feedback from the playerbase that these foods were in fact too strong and basically best on any build, since they provided a "Jack of all trades" option, especially in PvP. We then hand that feedback to the devs. It is not my personal agenda to nerf these foods whatsoever. But I can understand why it happened from a balancing perspective. If you disagree with it it's fine, I can and will deliver that feedback, but your attitude doesnt help at all.

    First i've ever heard of food being overpowered. At best i might hear people lament over the lack of option, there is however a reason people use 3 - 4 food items and ignore the others. nerfing said food items is not the way as you don't address why players overwhelmingly use those particular items.
    Invictus
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