xilfxlegion wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
The ones who sold you the motifs earned the gold by using their real world money.
It is quite literally gold buying, like they approached some websites and bought their gold from the merchants for posted amount of real world currency, such as dollars.
Though in this case ZOS made the profit, not some third parties.
This isn't right and shouldn't be allowed.
No real world currency should allow the player to exchange it to gold.
What is currently being done:
1.Real world currency for crown packs.
2. Crown packs for crown store items.
3. Crown store items for gold.
So it is basically real world currency conversion to gold.
This is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to continue as it is now.
If ZOS doesn't want disallow it, they can at least restrict it.xilfxlegion wrote: »im still not getting how it is pay to win ?
Gold is extremely useful currency, used for many purposes to improve the characters power/game account/guild store trading.
Some examples: Buying/upgrading gear is a way to increase the power of the character, guild stores bidding process - easier through crown store gifting.
question ---- can you get gold and upgrade materials without buying them in the crown store ? yes --- therefore it is not pay to win.
what i dont get is why people complain about this ---- it literally hurts no one.
No one can make the amount of gold the traders of crown store items for gold make per day.
Many of them have millions upon millions of gold, maybe even close to a billion gold!
There is no better method for accumulating gold than crown store gifting.
you are missing a small but crucial step in your equation. the ONLY reason they are able to "make" that gold is because someone already made that much gold in game via in game means and now has it available for trade.
This has nothing to do with this.
The players who exchange the crown store item for gold skip the normal in-game process of farming the gold.
Players shouldn't be allowed to skip this process so easily.
I suggested to restrict it so it will be less common.Wildberryjack wrote: »
It's not cosmetic for the ones who receive the gold.
The gold can be used for non cosmetic items and features.
why? is this again the matter of "i did it the hard way and so should they?"
Exactly.
Now it is gold.
What's next ?
Skill lines and skyshards in the crown store, it is only a matter of time.
While the skill lines and skyshards will probably not be giftable, they will provide too much convenience.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
xilfxlegion wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
The ones who sold you the motifs earned the gold by using their real world money.
It is quite literally gold buying, like they approached some websites and bought their gold from the merchants for posted amount of real world currency, such as dollars.
Though in this case ZOS made the profit, not some third parties.
This isn't right and shouldn't be allowed.
No real world currency should allow the player to exchange it to gold.
What is currently being done:
1.Real world currency for crown packs.
2. Crown packs for crown store items.
3. Crown store items for gold.
So it is basically real world currency conversion to gold.
This is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to continue as it is now.
If ZOS doesn't want disallow it, they can at least restrict it.xilfxlegion wrote: »im still not getting how it is pay to win ?
Gold is extremely useful currency, used for many purposes to improve the characters power/game account/guild store trading.
Some examples: Buying/upgrading gear is a way to increase the power of the character, guild stores bidding process - easier through crown store gifting.
question ---- can you get gold and upgrade materials without buying them in the crown store ? yes --- therefore it is not pay to win.
what i dont get is why people complain about this ---- it literally hurts no one.
No one can make the amount of gold the traders of crown store items for gold make per day.
Many of them have millions upon millions of gold, maybe even close to a billion gold!
There is no better method for accumulating gold than crown store gifting.
you are missing a small but crucial step in your equation. the ONLY reason they are able to "make" that gold is because someone already made that much gold in game via in game means and now has it available for trade.
This has nothing to do with this.
The players who exchange the crown store item for gold skip the normal in-game process of farming the gold.
Players shouldn't be allowed to skip this process so easily.
I suggested to restrict it so it will be less common.Wildberryjack wrote: »
It's not cosmetic for the ones who receive the gold.
The gold can be used for non cosmetic items and features.
DaveMoeDee wrote: »Dragneel1207 wrote: »u r argument is flawed and the end game gear cant be bought in guild store
There is end game PvP gear that is BOE.
xilfxlegion wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
The ones who sold you the motifs earned the gold by using their real world money.
It is quite literally gold buying, like they approached some websites and bought their gold from the merchants for posted amount of real world currency, such as dollars.
Though in this case ZOS made the profit, not some third parties.
This isn't right and shouldn't be allowed.
No real world currency should allow the player to exchange it to gold.
What is currently being done:
1.Real world currency for crown packs.
2. Crown packs for crown store items.
3. Crown store items for gold.
So it is basically real world currency conversion to gold.
This is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to continue as it is now.
If ZOS doesn't want disallow it, they can at least restrict it.xilfxlegion wrote: »im still not getting how it is pay to win ?
Gold is extremely useful currency, used for many purposes to improve the characters power/game account/guild store trading.
Some examples: Buying/upgrading gear is a way to increase the power of the character, guild stores bidding process - easier through crown store gifting.
question ---- can you get gold and upgrade materials without buying them in the crown store ? yes --- therefore it is not pay to win.
what i dont get is why people complain about this ---- it literally hurts no one.
No one can make the amount of gold the traders of crown store items for gold make per day.
Many of them have millions upon millions of gold, maybe even close to a billion gold!
There is no better method for accumulating gold than crown store gifting.
you are missing a small but crucial step in your equation. the ONLY reason they are able to "make" that gold is because someone already made that much gold in game via in game means and now has it available for trade.
This has nothing to do with this.
The players who exchange the crown store item for gold skip the normal in-game process of farming the gold.
Players shouldn't be allowed to skip this process so easily.
I suggested to restrict it so it will be less common.Wildberryjack wrote: »
It's not cosmetic for the ones who receive the gold.
The gold can be used for non cosmetic items and features.
why? is this again the matter of "i did it the hard way and so should they?"
Exactly.
Now it is gold.
What's next ?
Skill lines and skyshards in the crown store, it is only a matter of time.
While the skill lines and skyshards will probably not be giftable, they will provide too much convenience.
xilfxlegion wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
The ones who sold you the motifs earned the gold by using their real world money.
It is quite literally gold buying, like they approached some websites and bought their gold from the merchants for posted amount of real world currency, such as dollars.
Though in this case ZOS made the profit, not some third parties.
This isn't right and shouldn't be allowed.
No real world currency should allow the player to exchange it to gold.
What is currently being done:
1.Real world currency for crown packs.
2. Crown packs for crown store items.
3. Crown store items for gold.
So it is basically real world currency conversion to gold.
This is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to continue as it is now.
If ZOS doesn't want disallow it, they can at least restrict it.xilfxlegion wrote: »im still not getting how it is pay to win ?
Gold is extremely useful currency, used for many purposes to improve the characters power/game account/guild store trading.
Some examples: Buying/upgrading gear is a way to increase the power of the character, guild stores bidding process - easier through crown store gifting.
question ---- can you get gold and upgrade materials without buying them in the crown store ? yes --- therefore it is not pay to win.
what i dont get is why people complain about this ---- it literally hurts no one.
No one can make the amount of gold the traders of crown store items for gold make per day.
Many of them have millions upon millions of gold, maybe even close to a billion gold!
There is no better method for accumulating gold than crown store gifting.
you are missing a small but crucial step in your equation. the ONLY reason they are able to "make" that gold is because someone already made that much gold in game via in game means and now has it available for trade.
This has nothing to do with this.
The players who exchange the crown store item for gold skip the normal in-game process of farming the gold.
Players shouldn't be allowed to skip this process so easily.
I suggested to restrict it so it will be less common.Wildberryjack wrote: »
It's not cosmetic for the ones who receive the gold.
The gold can be used for non cosmetic items and features.
why? is this again the matter of "i did it the hard way and so should they?"
Exactly.
Now it is gold.
What's next ?
Skill lines and skyshards in the crown store, it is only a matter of time.
While the skill lines and skyshards will probably not be giftable, they will provide too much convenience.
@Universe By that means if I have hundreds of millions without buying any of that by Crown, and I help my friends with golden gear beacuse they don't play that much, and I would like them to be a potent group mates, we broke the game, so it should be restricted.
Irellevant if its P2W or not it causes inflation and destroys the economy and therefore must be restricted.
xilfxlegion wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
The ones who sold you the motifs earned the gold by using their real world money.
It is quite literally gold buying, like they approached some websites and bought their gold from the merchants for posted amount of real world currency, such as dollars.
Though in this case ZOS made the profit, not some third parties.
This isn't right and shouldn't be allowed.
No real world currency should allow the player to exchange it to gold.
What is currently being done:
1.Real world currency for crown packs.
2. Crown packs for crown store items.
3. Crown store items for gold.
So it is basically real world currency conversion to gold.
This is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to continue as it is now.
If ZOS doesn't want disallow it, they can at least restrict it.xilfxlegion wrote: »im still not getting how it is pay to win ?
Gold is extremely useful currency, used for many purposes to improve the characters power/game account/guild store trading.
Some examples: Buying/upgrading gear is a way to increase the power of the character, guild stores bidding process - easier through crown store gifting.
question ---- can you get gold and upgrade materials without buying them in the crown store ? yes --- therefore it is not pay to win.
what i dont get is why people complain about this ---- it literally hurts no one.
No one can make the amount of gold the traders of crown store items for gold make per day.
Many of them have millions upon millions of gold, maybe even close to a billion gold!
There is no better method for accumulating gold than crown store gifting.
you are missing a small but crucial step in your equation. the ONLY reason they are able to "make" that gold is because someone already made that much gold in game via in game means and now has it available for trade.
This has nothing to do with this.
The players who exchange the crown store item for gold skip the normal in-game process of farming the gold.
Players shouldn't be allowed to skip this process so easily.
I suggested to restrict it so it will be less common.Wildberryjack wrote: »
It's not cosmetic for the ones who receive the gold.
The gold can be used for non cosmetic items and features.
why? is this again the matter of "i did it the hard way and so should they?"
Exactly.
Now it is gold.
What's next ?
Skill lines and skyshards in the crown store, it is only a matter of time.
While the skill lines and skyshards will probably not be giftable, they will provide too much convenience.
@Universe By that means if I have hundreds of millions without buying any of that by Crown, and I help my friends with golden gear beacuse they don't play that much, and I would like them to be a potent group mates, we broke the game, so it should be restricted.
Gold farmed by normal means is perfectly fine.
I don't like the idea that crown store items for gold trade makes the all process of farming gold easier for those who are willing to spend their real life money.
I expected to not receive much agreement on this topic, it is like I'm asking in the middle of a party, let's restrict it
I hope that ZOS will understand my point and will restrict it.
Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
xilfxlegion wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
The ones who sold you the motifs earned the gold by using their real world money.
It is quite literally gold buying, like they approached some websites and bought their gold from the merchants for posted amount of real world currency, such as dollars.
Though in this case ZOS made the profit, not some third parties.
This isn't right and shouldn't be allowed.
No real world currency should allow the player to exchange it to gold.
What is currently being done:
1.Real world currency for crown packs.
2. Crown packs for crown store items.
3. Crown store items for gold.
So it is basically real world currency conversion to gold.
This is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to continue as it is now.
If ZOS doesn't want disallow it, they can at least restrict it.xilfxlegion wrote: »im still not getting how it is pay to win ?
Gold is extremely useful currency, used for many purposes to improve the characters power/game account/guild store trading.
Some examples: Buying/upgrading gear is a way to increase the power of the character, guild stores bidding process - easier through crown store gifting.
question ---- can you get gold and upgrade materials without buying them in the crown store ? yes --- therefore it is not pay to win.
what i dont get is why people complain about this ---- it literally hurts no one.
No one can make the amount of gold the traders of crown store items for gold make per day.
Many of them have millions upon millions of gold, maybe even close to a billion gold!
There is no better method for accumulating gold than crown store gifting.
you are missing a small but crucial step in your equation. the ONLY reason they are able to "make" that gold is because someone already made that much gold in game via in game means and now has it available for trade.
This has nothing to do with this.
The players who exchange the crown store item for gold skip the normal in-game process of farming the gold.
Players shouldn't be allowed to skip this process so easily.
I suggested to restrict it so it will be less common.Wildberryjack wrote: »
It's not cosmetic for the ones who receive the gold.
The gold can be used for non cosmetic items and features.
why? is this again the matter of "i did it the hard way and so should they?"
Exactly.
Now it is gold.
What's next ?
Skill lines and skyshards in the crown store, it is only a matter of time.
While the skill lines and skyshards will probably not be giftable, they will provide too much convenience.
@Universe By that means if I have hundreds of millions without buying any of that by Crown, and I help my friends with golden gear beacuse they don't play that much, and I would like them to be a potent group mates, we broke the game, so it should be restricted.
Gold farmed by normal means is perfectly fine.
I don't like the idea that crown store items for gold trade makes the all process of farming gold easier for those who are willing to spend their real life money.
I expected to not receive much agreement on this topic, it is like I'm asking in the middle of a party, let's restrict it
I hope that ZOS will understand my point and will restrict it.
But, according to ZOS, ot is a normal means. So...?
Seems more personal versus logical honesty.
It is not P2W.
If you really want to gripe about gold buying you would be complaining about how long it takes for Zos to ban bot accounts. That is where the real issue is so please get priorities straight.
DaveMoeDee wrote: »Dragneel1207 wrote: »u r argument is flawed and the end game gear cant be bought in guild store
There is end game PvP gear that is BOE.
True, but is it exclusively only available to those who sell / buy crown items? or can anyone buy it if it was for sell at a guild trader?
It is not P2W.
If you really want to gripe about gold buying you would be complaining about how long it takes for Zos to ban bot accounts. That is where the real issue is so please get priorities straight.
Agree with the OP.
Buying in game currency with irl money was never a good thing on game.
This is the main thing who destroy economy and cause price inflation.
Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
I am confused here... how is it Pay to Win?
Are those with the gold buying crown items getting some undisclosed item that grant them a huge apparent advantage over others in all content, like PvP?
Or are those selling their own crown getting some extra bonuses that cannot be obtainable by any other means while maintaining a clear advantage over others?
All i am seeing here is player a wants item b in crown store, doesn't want to fork over rl money, but player c has it, they make trade. While you, player b seem upset about it...
Whats your problem with that ?Please share your thoughts
xilfxlegion wrote: »
MartiniDaniels wrote: »This was actually smart move from ZOS. If they allow to buy gold directly with crowns, it will make ESO look like "Clash of clans" or whatever other mobile game (B**des, heh). But this exchange of gold for gifts adds another layer of socialization and immersion to trade, builds up demand for respectable people who everybody trusts so that people can ensure that deals are fair. On the other hand there is "black market" with low prices but high chance of scam.. it all makes game more alive, and in the same time people who don't want or don't have money to buy crowns may obtain CS items, and people who don't have time for grinding may receive gold, and ZOS receives income in process. It's win-win solution.
xilfxlegion wrote: »im still not getting how it is pay to win ?
xilfxlegion wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
The ones who sold you the motifs earned the gold by using their real world money.
It is quite literally gold buying, like they approached some websites and bought their gold from the merchants for posted amount of real world currency, such as dollars.
Though in this case ZOS made the profit, not some third parties.
This isn't right and shouldn't be allowed.
No real world currency should allow the player to exchange it to gold.
What is currently being done:
1.Real world currency for crown packs.
2. Crown packs for crown store items.
3. Crown store items for gold.
So it is basically real world currency conversion to gold.
This is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to continue as it is now.
If ZOS doesn't want disallow it, they can at least restrict it.xilfxlegion wrote: »im still not getting how it is pay to win ?
Gold is extremely useful currency, used for many purposes to improve the characters power/game account/guild store trading.
Some examples: Buying/upgrading gear is a way to increase the power of the character, guild stores bidding process - easier through crown store gifting.
question ---- can you get gold and upgrade materials without buying them in the crown store ? yes --- therefore it is not pay to win.
what i dont get is why people complain about this ---- it literally hurts no one.
No one can make the amount of gold the traders of crown store items for gold make per day.
Many of them have millions upon millions of gold, maybe even close to a billion gold!
There is no better method for accumulating gold than crown store gifting.
you are missing a small but crucial step in your equation. the ONLY reason they are able to "make" that gold is because someone already made that much gold in game via in game means and now has it available for trade.
This has nothing to do with this.
The players who exchange the crown store item for gold skip the normal in-game process of farming the gold.
Players shouldn't be allowed to skip this process so easily.
I suggested to restrict it so it will be less common.Wildberryjack wrote: »
It's not cosmetic for the ones who receive the gold.
The gold can be used for non cosmetic items and features.
why? is this again the matter of "i did it the hard way and so should they?"
Exactly.
Now it is gold.
What's next ?
Skill lines and skyshards in the crown store, it is only a matter of time.
While the skill lines and skyshards will probably not be giftable, they will provide too much convenience.
convenience is NOT a bad thing. while I severely dislike that skyshards will be crown store only, you cannot buy them unless you already found them at least once.
and that thinking off "i suffered and so should you is extremely toxic and you should think really hard why is it that you want other people to slog through something you seem to find unpleasant.
you are coming from a place of bitterness and envy "how come they get to have this" worry more about yourself than what other people do or do not get to have.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Probably OP is concerned that if some people want to dominate trading market they may just sell 100k+ crowns for 30mil+ and bid for good trader which will leave out other guilds who earned let's say 20mil from trading and member donations. This scenario is probably possible and even takes place in reality (remember those strange guilds which are appearing in deshaan with poor listings for couple of weeks and then vanishing god knows where), but now there is not so big demand for crowns to make that an issue.
Still if we talk about established trading guilds and if they have rich IRL members, those guilds will have strong advantage and it will be literally P2W (in terms of trading place and prestige).
Sheezabeast wrote: »You’ve never participated in it but you want to restrict it?
As a Grand Master Crafter, Crown store exclusive motifs are my bane, I’ve had to buy them with gold from friends every time one is released. I have financial circumstances limiting my budget irl, why should I get restricted from collecting a new motif on my dedicated crafter because you don’t like other people having a mutually beneficial gold sink?
Hello,
Since Update 18 players are able to buy gold by real money by the following method:
1. Used their credit card to buy crown packs.
2. bought the crown store items.
3. They sold the items and received GOLD.
The gold currency is extremely useful, used for various purposes, such as: guild stores bidding, buying/upgrading gear, repair, crafting etc.
It is literally gold buying through the sale of crown store items, a form of P2W/Pay for Convenience.
While ZOS said it's fine to trade crown store item for gold, it became ridiculous how fast players were accumulating massive amounts of gold.
I believe that ZOS needs to change their mind about this and restrict or disallow it by some manner.
I suggested the following as the first step:
Please limit the number of gifts an account can deliver, for example:
1 gift of 1-500 crowns per week.
1 gift of 501-1,000 crowns per month.
1 gift of 1,001-1,500 crowns per 2 months.
1 gift of 1,501-3,000 crowns per 3 months.
1 gift of 3,001-5,000+ crowns per 6 months.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I never participated in this form of trading and I believe it is inappropriate.
***Note: P2W/P2Convenience or not, it is harmful to ESO's game economy, such as: increasing inflation of prices, bids on guild traders are higher etc.
Please share your thoughts
KaraBela94 wrote: »You really need to learn the definition of Pay2Win seriously
I know the definition very well.
Gold is used for power too, such as buying gear/upgrading the gear/bidding on guild traders.
There are many other uses.
If gold is available for real life money, it is P2W.
This definition is much broader.