MartiniDaniels wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I think the folks playing Argonians now will only be those of us that love playing as the race, or those that just don't care to change what they already have.

I was going to call this Bosmer Town, but since Argonian's live there now too, I guess we'll need a better name.

We may call it Downtown, home of races rejected to be great for anything in PVE

Well, that statement implies that Bosmer are great for PvP which is also not true Hell, you could say that ESO no longer has Bosmer, just a shorter generic elf race since in-game (playable) Bosmer have none of the defining characteristics of the race.

I don't know enough about Argonian to say if they're good in PvP, this thread has been quite the learning experience as to the state of their passives.

But I think Downtown could work.

Downtown, capital city of RacesTheEsoDevelopersDon'tPlayistan

It really blows my mind that they can be presented with detailed evidence that they failed to balance Argonians and be ok with it. I'm also dumbfounded that they can be ok with breaking their own lore. I don't think I've ever played an MMORPG that breaks it's own established lore. How can @ZOS_LeamonTuttle the new loremaster who says he likes Argonians and works on Argonian content, be ok with removing our poison resistance. They literally built our lore in ESO around both disease and poison resistance. Those passives are part of Argonians identity in ESO and shouldn't have been touched.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, I'm not hardcore PVPer to judge, but rolling is a life for stam character from my experience and youtubers point bosmers as an absolute BiS for agile builds, especially stamplars. And argonians are still decent in PVP too.. so it's mostly PVE thing that we don't like.

See, that's what I don't get. There is no situation were the Bosmer passives really help with repeated roll dodging. Even with an 80% reduction in roll cost, the Bomser stamina regen just barely breaks even before modifiers (3600 * 0.2 requires 240 recovery to counteract, vs Bosmer 258 recovery). And it requires 600 recovery if you only have 50% cost reduction. And thats' assuming you only roll once every 6 seconds. From what I hear in PvP, it's roll city. That means Bosmer might get one extra roll/attack given their recovery bonus.

Meanwhile the damage buff from Hunter's Eye is pretty trash. Even in ideal situations (you have 0 base pen and target is exactly at resistance cap), Orcs, Altmer and Dunmer get about way more from their always on buffs than Bomser's get from their bonus penetration. As base pen increases or target resistance drops, Bosmer's lose even more damage.

Basically it's similar to Argonian's bonus healing. In an ideal situation, a Bosmer will do ~4.5% extra damage. Math = 1000 damage * 50% resist = 500 damage. 1500 pen = 2.27% less damage reduction, so your 1000 damage hit will now do 523 damage which is about 104.5% of what you were doing.

4.5% bonus damage isn't going to turn many fights in the same way that 6% healing isn't going to save many heal spells. Most of it is just going to go to extra damage. Compare that to Orcs, Dunmer, and Altmer who's 258 bonus damage, when combined with a 3,000 weapon damage stat means you're doing 3258/3000 = 108.6% damage. 8.6% is more than the 8% minor berserk gives. Note that if your weapon/spell damage is less than 3000 then you get even more benefit from those races.

So to keep it on Argonians since this is their thread, at least you're not alone. Bosmer are stuck in the same situation so we can share a drink over our woes.

Except you should be careful, Bosmer drinks can be made from fermented meat. And while you have poison resistance now, next month you might have fire resistance instead because "argonains live in the water and water protects against fire"

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Actually they have disease resistance, so they can have the Bosmer drinks all they want, even though Bosmer can't drink their own drinks anymore. Argonians just can't eat their own food.

The next change will be that Argonians are allergic to water. But they'll be immune from all butterfly attacks, so there's that bonus.

Most lore friendly changes EVER!

Whoops, the intent of my joke was there, just typed the wrong resistance!

I say joke, but dev probably saw both our ideas and next change will be

"Argonian's gain X fire resistance instead of disease since they live in water, they can also harvest butterflys, lunar moths, and wasps 50% faster because they have lizard tongues"

wedgebert wrote: »

But I think Downtown could work.

Downtown, capital city of RacesTheEsoDevelopersDon'tPlayistan

*pulls out map* Could someone tell me how to get the heck outta Dodge (rolling)? It seems I'm stuck here (rolling). Please send help.

Agree with this thread. Fix Argonians!

Koronach wrote: »

So I hear they acknowledged the Bosmer stealth thread. I hope they acknowledged this one and this one. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462221/argonians-losing-their-resistance-to-poison-an-open-letter/p1

Shouldn't need 40 pages, just because your race isn't as widely represented doesn't mean these issues aren't there.

40+ pages and the only Z to make a comment is the 'play nice' from a moderator, which you've already got. Our only acknowledgement was for someone to drive a gazillion miles (ok, a couple hundred, but still) to Boston to accost the devs in person. Still no official recognition in the thread itself.

I think almost all of us stand with you. Lore matters!

Now is too late.

I was shouting at forums whole day and sometimes nights they should do something with argonians but all i was getting back was flaming and hearing again and again how "insanely op" argonians were and still will be. And guess what. Now we have argonians mostly only as role-playing players. So i keep asking. Are they really SO MUCH OP???

I may play with weakest race for dps but i am proud of it.

You know, there's a lot of responses in here on the lore of Argonian and Bosmer resistances to Disease and Poison.

I personally don't care much for that; in my eyes, gameplay balance is something that has to take priority with lore backing it up, not the other way round.

Still, a compromise could be made in that both races could gain resistances to both Disease and Poison, with Bosmer gaining immunity to the Diseased status effect, and Argonians gaining immunity to the Poison status effect. Numbers can still be tweaked to maintain that balance in PvP.

I'm currently in the process of re-formatting the main post to make it more readable.

Regarding the "healing done"...

I just wanted to throw this in here just so people have an idea "how much" healing done is useless. (all credit to youtuber t3hasiangod who did tremendous job doinng the "math" to calculate it):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFMFgIaiSk
Bassicaly, comparing gear bonus, in order to have 2% healing done from gear to be equally effective as 129 spell dmg bonus, you would have to have 5000 spell dmg for that 2% to be any good. In other words: there is no reason to pick healing done bonus over 129 spell / weapon dmg.