Why should content creators stick to ESO?

Ozby · March 2019

amir412 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Well, a lot of them seem to be doing okay.

I don't see many of their dedicated content creators struggling to get views or have things to talk about. They have new content to explore/talk about every three months.

I don't think lack of support for content creators is a great argument for why PvP needs love or should be improved.

You do realise that those which are doing "ok", does not have real viewers but gain viewers by iFrames from websites?
That is one reason, and a good one from a company prespective of why PVP should get more love, beyond the obivous ones coming from the players side.

Pvp is only one aspect of the game and not everyone enjoys Pvp, you should try to remember that. Some people actually enjoy the Pve stuff or the fashion / cosplay. You should always speak from the "I".

MikaHR · March 2019

Reverb wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Well, a lot of them seem to be doing okay.

I don't see many of their dedicated content creators struggling to get views or have things to talk about. They have new content to explore/talk about every three months.

I don't think lack of support for content creators is a great argument for why PvP needs love or should be improved.

You do realise that those which are doing "ok", does not have real viewers but gain viewers by iFrames from websites?
.

Cite your source.

And stop using the word “literally” until you understand how to use it correctly. In this context you would have been better using “practically“ or “comparatively“.

Because you can go to their sites and look at numbers and have a good laugh.

Turelus · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting figures here as well.

https://altarofgaming.com/all-mmos-sorted-by-population-2018/

I don't think ESO is in any danger of dying any time soon, it's not the world record setting success that WoW was but nothing has been since because WoW hit the right niche at the right time.

ESO had year after year gotten more awards, more attention, and personally I feel more players and attention. I think the games doing very well, it just doesn't have the same level of interest as other games which reach more people, MMO games and ESO are still a niche.

Edit:

Here's my comparison of some bigger MMO names as well. ESO is sitting comfortable at #2 it seems, might not be growing at a massive rate but it's also not in a trending fall like someone else on that graph.

Blue line (ESO) is showing clear downtrend (skewed by scale becasue of WoW line...which also someone claimed "is not in decline trend!!!!!!!!!!") ....and its not no2. lost that spot. Its as clear as day.

You can actually look at the chart you yourself posted....or i guess mae you wannabe chart and post delusional "interpretation" of that imaginary chart....like you did.

Guild Wars 2 is what happens when you introduce raids and new tier of gear (which ESO is VERY close to with insane power creep from both CP+gear)

It's going down, but it also spikes up again regally when content hits, it'll spike again in June.

Also I am not sure we should be basing the entire health of an MMO solely on how many times people search for the game in Google. I just figured I would show some more information I found and make my own graph of the popular MMO games.

ESO looks steady, it's not dramatically growing or shrinking over the last year.

Acrolas · March 2019

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The massive nose bomb on the graph after the release of Imperial City in 2015 on Google Trends

That spike was in June 2015, nearly two months before Imperial City launched.

What you're looking at is the console launch on June 9, 2015. It should be the peak of interest as that was when 66% of the current megaservers went live for the first time.

MikaHR · March 2019

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

JTorus · March 2019

Reverb wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Well, a lot of them seem to be doing okay.

I don't see many of their dedicated content creators struggling to get views or have things to talk about. They have new content to explore/talk about every three months.

I don't think lack of support for content creators is a great argument for why PvP needs love or should be improved.

You do realise that those which are doing "ok", does not have real viewers but gain viewers by iFrames from websites?
.

Cite your source.

And stop using the word “literally” until you understand how to use it correctly. In this context you would have been better using “practically“ or “comparatively“.

alcast

dottz

sypher(not that he plays eso)

Here's how you can do it too!

It's not always an iframe, but sometimes it's a wordpress widget or a js, whatever. When it comes to monetization, literally anyone can inflate their audience numbers with practically dozens of clever methods. Comparatively, however, it's not nearly as representative to a more organic representation of reality.

BringerOfOmens · March 2019

Perhaps I am too OG but I still can't relate to people who would prefer to watch someone else playing a game than playing it themselves. I understand YouTube and looking for guides, hints, how-to's but those things are best done in a video where the viewer has the capability to pause, reind, re-watch, fast forward, etc.

As I said, it might be a generational thing. My son and I have this conversation often and his comments always focus around liking the commentary of the player which leads me to believe its not really about the game being played.

To that end, I am not much of a talk-show viewer either so there is that.

Ogou · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

ghastley · March 2019

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

I don't get the stubbornness of MMO developers. They keep focusing on PvE, meanwhile PvPers always pull far higher numbers on twitch and youtube. PvE has its place, but it should not be the main focus.

That stat just means that PvE players aren't so interested in watching someone else. They probably prefer playing the game and supporting ZOS, rather than supporting Twitch or Youtube.

starkerealm · March 2019

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

I don't get the stubbornness of MMO developers. They keep focusing on PvE, meanwhile PvPers always pull far higher numbers on twitch and youtube. PvE has its place, but it should not be the main focus.

Their funeral though. Eventually a better MMO will come along and hopefully will give people what they want. Until then, ESO is the best we got.

Because when you look at the actual population demographics, PvPers are a tiny sliver of a game's population. (Barring MMOs like EVE or BDO where it's compulsory.) PvPers like to talk themselves up as this silent majority, but the vast majority of MMO players will poke their nose in once in awhile, and then scamper off home to PvE. Dedicated PvPers are a very rare breed.

I don't know the numbers for ESO, but I do know that only 15.4% of players ever earn the Support the Fight achievement (capture a resource). (Specifically, I'm looking at the PS4 trophy completion rate, if you're wondering.) Most Valuable Combatant clocks in at about 1.4% of players. (That's earn 3k points in a single BG match.)

If you told me that PvPers made up about 1% of the game's overall population, I would not be surprised.

Endgame raiders are the same way. Also a rare breed.

Both groups believe that they alone are the arbiters of the true popularity for MMOs. Both groups are completely wrong. It's the casuals. The players who log in, run some PvE, screw around, and log off, that are the real silent majority.

starkerealm · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Well, a lot of them seem to be doing okay.

I don't see many of their dedicated content creators struggling to get views or have things to talk about. They have new content to explore/talk about every three months.

I don't think lack of support for content creators is a great argument for why PvP needs love or should be improved.

You do realise that those which are doing "ok", does not have real viewers but gain viewers by iFrames from websites?
.

Cite your source.

And stop using the word “literally” until you understand how to use it correctly. In this context you would have been better using “practically“ or “comparatively“.

Because you can go to their sites and look at numbers and have a good laugh.

The focus is on the live broadcast. Clips will get some traffic, but unless that clip becomes significant to the streamer's audience, they won't draw a lot of traffic. You can even see that on that screenshot. There's far more attention to DoM, when it's the flavor of the day, and people are trying to figure out how to clear it, so they look at Alcast's run. The other clips might get passed around, but they're not going to have much staying power.

What you really want to look for is chat engagement. If you have a stream with thousands of viewers, but chat is crawling by, it's possible that's being supplemented off of embedded streams. Conversely, if you've got a stream with 120 viewers, it can be a bit overwhelming to keep up with.

MikaHR · March 2019

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.

THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Pelican · March 2019

As a content creator for solo pvp, I stick to ESO because I don't want to leave a game I've invested so much time into getting good at. Solo pvp is challenging and feels accomplishing when you're successful. You could even say its fun at some points. I make videos to inspire more people to take up the challenge of outnumbered pvp. I feel that this game lacks passionate players that takes the extra time and effort to improve beyond playing in large groups, but that's just what ESO pvp is supposed to be; large scale battles.
Don't be daunted by the fact that the overwhelming majority of pvp'ers are zerg players. See the positive side of it, see it as an opportunity to distinguish yourself from the rest.

Aliyavana · March 2019

honestly, I find pve to be boring to watch. I watch alcast because he is informative and his memes, and ninja because his personality. I prefer pvpers like Fengrush because of his PVP gameplay tho.

HowlKimchi · March 2019

godamn there's a lot of graphs here

NinchiTV · March 2019

I "stick" to ESO because i enjoy it with its flaws and all. If i didnt enjoy it I wouldnt bother making videos or stream it TBH. I feel like most people feel this way, we stick with it cause we like it. I would LOVE if imperial city got updates and even the map of cyrodiil changed more frequently, thats something fortnite got right, the ever changing map. Keeping it fresh.

jainiadral · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting figures here as well.

https://altarofgaming.com/all-mmos-sorted-by-population-2018/

I don't think ESO is in any danger of dying any time soon, it's not the world record setting success that WoW was but nothing has been since because WoW hit the right niche at the right time.

ESO had year after year gotten more awards, more attention, and personally I feel more players and attention. I think the games doing very well, it just doesn't have the same level of interest as other games which reach more people, MMO games and ESO are still a niche.

Edit:

Here's my comparison of some bigger MMO names as well. ESO is sitting comfortable at #2 it seems, might not be growing at a massive rate but it's also not in a trending fall like someone else on that graph.

Blue line (ESO) is showing clear downtrend (skewed by scale becasue of WoW line...which also someone claimed "is not in decline trend!!!!!!!!!!") ....and its not no2. lost that spot. Its as clear as day.

You can actually look at the chart you yourself posted....or i guess mae you wannabe chart and post delusional "interpretation" of that imaginary chart....like you did.

Guild Wars 2 is what happens when you introduce raids and new tier of gear (which ESO is VERY close to with insane power creep from both CP+gear)

If you've ever played GW2, then you'd know that Legendary (raid) gear has the exact same stats as Ascended, the top-tier gear you can craft or earn in drops from fractals-- the equivalent to ESO's dungeons. GW2 doesn't have gear-based power creep.

Grandma · March 2019

all the problems of the game that don't exist are because pvp is somehow dead? neither of those are real but... go off i guess.....?

Ogou · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.

THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

yodased · March 2019

Ogou wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

https://youtu.be/PivbmaAwVqs

I've shared spammed this on ESO forums, its the best i can do

FTFY

That was the actual joke though. Do you float?

idk · March 2019

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

ESO has been losing and in decline for quite sometime, folks are just used to it.

I need no more proof than Google Trends to see where ESO sub numbers declined and never recovered

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2014-05-01 2019-03-14&geo=US&q=/m/0jt2y_q

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4104329

The massive nose bomb on the graph after the release of Imperial City in 2015 on Google Trends is why ZOS had to start charging money for chapters that were previously included in ESO+, because that massive exodus forced their hand. They had to bring in money with what they had left.

As you can see from the chart, ESO has maintained a steady, yet mediocre population and interest on Google. The fact the interest in ESO on Google as a whole has maintained its consistency even 2 years after i orginally posted this I am vindicated, all the people who said i was wrong were the ones who were wrong...Google has invested 100 of billions of dollars in R&D to analyze trends, to get a glimpse of what people are thinking about...were are so lucky that Google lets us look ata small part of that data for free.

I am not convinced Google Trends are showing subscriptions as you claim.

If you look at the worldwide interest it pretty much shows most interest is in NA, and very little in comparison in EU and elsewhere.

That would indicate the EU servers are a shell of the NA servers.

Also, others here have pointed to the same trend you show hitting pretty much every game so there is something else going on. Also, someone even suggested you misread that spike in interest a few years back, that it could be the console launch which would make much more sense.

So it does seem you are reading a lot into that graph without actually understanding it. I might have misunderstood you but it did seem clear you indicate the graph shows a decline in subscriptions.

nafensoriel · March 2019

Google trends. A good way to give bullcrap data a view. It's exclusively based on the subjects "most popular period". IE if 10 years ago people suddenly loved topic B and searched 89 million times for it worldwide all future "interest" is based off a ratio to that figure. It's bunk. Especially considering the fact it requires a google search to be completed. If a community is established and someone just goes directly to a news site or Reddit site... no data is recorded as "interest". This is data shaping at its finest. Take a gander at a 5-year view. According to that, the game did terrible on 1T release. It also did terribly back when we KNOW it had 2.5M uniusers/month and over 10 million copies sold.
Do not use google trends to try and equate population numbers.

Also, it's funny... back in 2017 people on these forums tried to use google trends to tell everyone ESO was dying. It wasn't. It didn't.

Facts are:
1] 2.5 m uniusers/month 2017.
2] Growing and accelerating content base(and the most aggressively growing content base of all current MMOs)
3] The game continues to rank in the top 5 MMOs over the past 3 years.
4] Steam numbers still show an increase year over year.

Trying to say "the game is dying" at this point is on a level of denial that is hard to comprehend.

Elsonso · March 2019

nafensoriel wrote: »

Trying to say "the game is dying" at this point is on a level of denial that is hard to comprehend.

You are not wrong.

MaxJrFTW · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Well, a lot of them seem to be doing okay.

I don't see many of their dedicated content creators struggling to get views or have things to talk about. They have new content to explore/talk about every three months.

I don't think lack of support for content creators is a great argument for why PvP needs love or should be improved.

You do realise that those which are doing "ok", does not have real viewers but gain viewers by iFrames from websites?
.

Cite your source.

And stop using the word “literally” until you understand how to use it correctly. In this context you would have been better using “practically“ or “comparatively“.

Because you can go to their sites and look at numbers and have a good laugh.

Nobody watches twitch videos. That goes for every channel.

Shroud gets 200k viewers playing apex legends, but his twitch videos barely get 20k. Obviously some get beyond that, but that's nothing for someone getting 200k live viewers.

Casterial · March 2019

Miswar wrote: »

There is a lot words wasted on your "testament"... first off you state that you "firstly I love Jack...." than you go to your rant and whatever and conculed that you hate PvP and you came back because of Pve.

You also make a lot of assumptions and general no brainer conclusions that apply to any business but make it sound like you actually do know something.

...you obviously are not even following the video creators channel considering the above since bulk of his content is PvP related.

As for you refering "Cyrodiil SLOWLY been improved" ...and as for game having +1k ping... lol that would actually mean that there is no connection to the servers whatsoever... and that pretty much concludes the third thing you claimed that you work on gaming industry which considering this revelation is obviously what it is...

I really mean no disrespect but maybe go vent your anger againts PvP related issues to other threads since it is blatantly obvious that what you just want to do.

That pretty much sums it up..have a nice 1.

Firstly, as a returning player, I've probably spent more time in Cyrodiil than the average player, about 200 days+. I have always followed jack, especially since he's a personal close friend I met through ESO.

I love the PVP but what I was trying to say is the PVP makes the company no money, nothing comparing toward PVE. We have to understand that. And yes, you're clueless if you think PVP hasn't been slowly iterated and fixed up on since launch. We went from constant crashes DCs, 1000, ping, and much more to lower crashes, smoother gameplay, and 400ish ping. If you didn't watch the video by the way, jack was basically talking about PVP, he rarely leaves it and is constantly pvping, he loves the PVP. We all do, but we just have to know that the PVP improvements are backlog task, content is the main.

Now to the core issues of the game, that's just stuff they're trying to fix, for example the mass amounts of phasing each zone has, it's aggressive outside of Cyrodiil making cities look like ghost town, but each area has multiple phases to reduce lag.

They're trying. I came back for ESO PVP originally, but realized this and just said I'll enjoy PVE more than PVP.. I constantly quit because of PVP state, but I love the game as an entire and can't have a small portion make me not like it(:

Oh and about why should content creators stick with it... Most MMOs have low viewership, WOW only has views during World's first. It's not fully entertaining to watch MMOs compared to suspenseful FPS/TPS

MikaHR · March 2019

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.

THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

No, thats the week that Elsweyr was announced, Wrthstone is utter failure.....as nicely shown in the graphs (not that we didnt already know from all other sources that dungeon DLCs have been nothing but complete fail for ZOS)

MikaHR · March 2019

jainiadral wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting figures here as well.

https://altarofgaming.com/all-mmos-sorted-by-population-2018/

I don't think ESO is in any danger of dying any time soon, it's not the world record setting success that WoW was but nothing has been since because WoW hit the right niche at the right time.

ESO had year after year gotten more awards, more attention, and personally I feel more players and attention. I think the games doing very well, it just doesn't have the same level of interest as other games which reach more people, MMO games and ESO are still a niche.

Edit:

Here's my comparison of some bigger MMO names as well. ESO is sitting comfortable at #2 it seems, might not be growing at a massive rate but it's also not in a trending fall like someone else on that graph.

Blue line (ESO) is showing clear downtrend (skewed by scale becasue of WoW line...which also someone claimed "is not in decline trend!!!!!!!!!!") ....and its not no2. lost that spot. Its as clear as day.

You can actually look at the chart you yourself posted....or i guess mae you wannabe chart and post delusional "interpretation" of that imaginary chart....like you did.

Guild Wars 2 is what happens when you introduce raids and new tier of gear (which ESO is VERY close to with insane power creep from both CP+gear)

If you've ever played GW2, then you'd know that Legendary (raid) gear has the exact same stats as Ascended, the top-tier gear you can craft or earn in drops from fractals-- the equivalent to ESO's dungeons. GW2 doesn't have gear-based power creep.

And if YOU EVER played GW2 you would know when ascended gear (new tier) was released (along with raids) and what happened afterwards...well ArenaNet had mass layoffs....just like we said it would and was shouted down by same wow "its a MMO" kiddies infesting ESO today.

MikaHR · March 2019

idk wrote: »

Also, others here have pointed to the same trend you show hitting pretty much every game so there is something else going on. Also, someone even suggested you misread that spike in interest a few years back, that it could be the console launch which would make much more sense.

So it does seem you are reading a lot into that graph without actually understanding it. I might have misunderstood you but it did seem clear you indicate the graph shows a decline in subscriptions.

All MMOs are dying because people are tired of WoW clones, pointless gear grinds and "vertical progression".

MMOs downfall started when games like LoL/DOTA and the rest released offering engaging gamplay with no "MMO" BS attached...and no "its a MMO" wow kiddies around. Now those are up there and MMOs are generally in the gutter....including WoW.

So yeah, ESO devs should take notes if they dont want to face mass layoffs in relatively near future and start correcting mistakes they made (like insane CP+gear power creep that pretty much created NEW TIER, special snowflake PvE BoP gear, forcing PvPers to grind PvE for best PvP gear, shoving main STORY into DLC dungeons and trying to rescusitate dead content like DLC dungeons...and failing miserably... ... ....)

MikaHR · March 2019

Casterial wrote: »

Oh and about why should content creators stick with it... Most MMOs have low viewership, WOW only has views during World's first. It's not fully entertaining to watch MMOs compared to suspenseful FPS/TPS

Question is why ZOS thinks that sponsoring that (streaming...duh) is something worthwile (it seems that those that visited ZOS recently got some monetary "encouragement"...no problems with that as they obviously cant live of covering ESO on itself, good for them...but....

jainiadral · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting figures here as well.

https://altarofgaming.com/all-mmos-sorted-by-population-2018/

I don't think ESO is in any danger of dying any time soon, it's not the world record setting success that WoW was but nothing has been since because WoW hit the right niche at the right time.

ESO had year after year gotten more awards, more attention, and personally I feel more players and attention. I think the games doing very well, it just doesn't have the same level of interest as other games which reach more people, MMO games and ESO are still a niche.

Edit:

Here's my comparison of some bigger MMO names as well. ESO is sitting comfortable at #2 it seems, might not be growing at a massive rate but it's also not in a trending fall like someone else on that graph.

Blue line (ESO) is showing clear downtrend (skewed by scale becasue of WoW line...which also someone claimed "is not in decline trend!!!!!!!!!!") ....and its not no2. lost that spot. Its as clear as day.

You can actually look at the chart you yourself posted....or i guess mae you wannabe chart and post delusional "interpretation" of that imaginary chart....like you did.

Guild Wars 2 is what happens when you introduce raids and new tier of gear (which ESO is VERY close to with insane power creep from both CP+gear)

If you've ever played GW2, then you'd know that Legendary (raid) gear has the exact same stats as Ascended, the top-tier gear you can craft or earn in drops from fractals-- the equivalent to ESO's dungeons. GW2 doesn't have gear-based power creep.

And if YOU EVER played GW2 you would know when ascended gear (new tier) was released (along with raids) and what happened afterwards...well ArenaNet had mass layoffs....just like we said it would and was shouted down by same wow "its a MMO" kiddies infesting ESO today.

I played quite a bit afterwards. What drove the casual base away wasn't raiding or power creep, it was the huge difficulty spike in HoT's open world content and how grindy/solo-unfriendly the world and Mastery progression had become. I know well--it's a big part of why I quit the first time. By the time I'd hit the HoT expansion three months post-release, the maps were deserted and impossible to progress upon.

Raiding has never been GW2's problem. Instead it's been a combination of stale content releases, forgetting about their casual player base, having too many maps and thinning out the population, ignoring PvP and WvW, and terrible balancing decisions. Not to mention, being owned by NCSoft.