Why should content creators stick to ESO?

MikaHR

jainiadral wrote: »

I played quite a bit afterwards. What drove the casual base away wasn't raiding or power creep, it was the huge difficulty spike in HoT's open world content and how grindy/solo-unfriendly the world and Mastery progression had become. I know well--it's a big part of why I quit the first time. By the time I'd hit the HoT expansion three months post-release, the maps were deserted and impossible to progress upon.

Raiding has never been GW2's problem. Instead it's been a combination of stale content releases, forgetting about their casual player base, having too many maps and thinning out the population, ignoring PvP and WvW, and terrible balancing decisions. Not to mention, being owned by NCSoft.

Yup, same wow "its a MMO" kiddies yelling...well...ITS A MMO, "harder overland content"....because of new tier of gear, raids....cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!", vertical progression and new tier of gear cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!!"....and ArenaNet devs were stupid enough to listen....now theyre out of a job....well 50% of them.

Blizzard also had mass layoffs...cuz "its a MMO!!!!!!!!"

NupidStoob

People really need to keep in mind that we are playing on different platforms here so opinions about activity should just be taken with a grain of salt. On PC EU PvP activity really hasn't changed all that much. Poplocked in the evening during the week and from noon/afternoon til late night on weekends.

Ydrisselle

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

I don't get the stubbornness of MMO developers. They keep focusing on PvE, meanwhile PvPers always pull far higher numbers on twitch and youtube. PvE has its place, but it should not be the main focus.

Their funeral though. Eventually a better MMO will come along and hopefully will give people what they want. Until then, ESO is the best we got.

There are far, far more PvE players than PvPers, and there are far, far more casual PvE players than hardcore raiders. I don't even remember a PvP MMO with more than 100k players...

srfrogg23

amir412 wrote: »

Why should any content creator stick to ESO?
No1 wants to watch a streamer doing the same PVE content over and over again,
Pepole likes to watch PVP, and right now PVP is literally dead - Still not a single address from ZOS related to this game breaking issues.
So what option does ESO's content creators has? Stream a fashion content? A guide "how to design your char"?

Shoutout to Kristofer_ESO for this awsome video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivbmaAwVqs

Sorry. Why does this matter? Some games are better when played instead of being watched. ESO happens to one of those.

Esports titles tend to suck for long term time investment. I don't think ESO should be that kind of game. It doesn't need to pander to spectators. It should be an RPG, not jingling keys before the masses.

Tandor

I find it hilarious that players who stream themselves playing a game are considered "content creators". Surely there must be a more accurate term such as "streamers", leaving the development team who actually create the content that the players are streaming themselves playing to be correctly identified as the "content creators".

vamp_emily

This thread kind of reminds me of a conversation I remember a while back.

A friend at work was having a problem trying to find a girlfriend and one of my co-workers made the comment, "If you are looking for a girlfriend then don't go to a club full of guys".

I guess what I am getting at is, if a content creator is looking for subs/viewers then I don't think ESO would be the game you should be creating content for. If I was a streamer/content creator I would go where the gamers are, something like Fornite.

I see some comments like "why would anyone watch others play a game". Don't be a fool, streaming/content businesses are very hot right now. There is a reason why Amazon bought twitch, Google bought Youtube, and I think there is a Chinese company name Huya that is breaking record profits and becoming a very popular platform for e-sports.

I personally don't watch any streamers and I very seldom check any builds on youtube, but I know it is very popular.

Elsonso

vamp_emily wrote: »

I guess what I am getting at is, if a content creator is looking for subs/viewers then I don't think ESO would be the game you should be creating content for. If I was a streamer/content creator I would go where the gamers are, something like Fornite.

I see some comments like "why would anyone watch others play a game". Don't be a fool, streaming/content businesses are very hot right now. There is a reason why Amazon bought twitch, Google bought Youtube, and I think there is a Chinese company name Huya that is breaking record profits and becoming a very popular platform for e-sports.

I figure that people like people competing against each other, but often times they don't want to do it, or are not very good at it. That makes me think that this is why more people watch sports than play sports, and I guess the same could be the same for streaming PVP gaming.

I think that the "why would anyone watch others play a game" argument comes from PVE players, who watch streams for different reasons, when they watch streams.

Ogou

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.



THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

No, thats the week that Elsweyr was announced,

Elsweyr was announced on the 15th. Wrathstone was officially announced and put on the PTS on the 22nd. Dude, that is really verifiable information.

Wrthstone is utter failure.....

It's starting to sound like something you want to be true no matter what. Wrathstone is doing fine since people will be running the dungeons for both gears and achievements.

as nicely shown in the graphs (not that we didnt already know from all other sources that dungeon DLCs have been nothing but complete fail for ZOS

Except, I already showed you that the graphs do not show that.
What other sources?

MikaHR

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.



THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

No, thats the week that Elsweyr was announced,

Elsweyr was announced on the 15th. Wrathstone was officially announced and put on the PTS on the 22nd. Dude, that is really verifiable information.

Wrthstone is utter failure.....

It's starting to sound like something you want to be true no matter what. Wrathstone is doing fine since people will be running the dungeons for both gears and achievements.

as nicely shown in the graphs (not that we didnt already know from all other sources that dungeon DLCs have been nothing but complete fail for ZOS

Except, I already showed you that the graphs do not show that.
What other sources?

Oh, now tell us what was the week preceding week of jan 20-26? You know THE week where spike (well, calling it a spike is quite generous) actually happened?



You really have to wonder about these people sometimes.

"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."


THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL But it is not surprising considering performance of previous dungeon DLCs.

Elsonso

MikaHR wrote: »

THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL But it is not surprising considering performance of previous dungeon DLCs.

You might be right that the dungeon content is not being widely consumed. This is maybe a good reason to focus on zone DLC content, which when coupled with ESO Plus, is probably more widely accepted by the general population of the game.

MikaHR

Or rework (DLC) dungeos to something people actually want ot play. As it would be new content for 99% of playerbase who have never bothered with them.

Scalable 1-4 players would be quite interesting offer. All normal+veteran difficulty (with optional HM just like now)

Haashhtaag

LiquidPony wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

right now PVP is literally dead - Still not a single address from ZOS related to this game breaking issues.

eso is doing great in both PvP and PvE, right now we have more people playing eso than ever in its history and there really is no problems, other than as small group that keeps making threads asking for changes that only "they" want, and when the devs dont do those changes then there are complaints that eso is dead, broken, and flooded with problems and breaking issues, when none of those things are happening.
eso PvP is not dead, it is better now than ever before, and with MORE people now than ever in eso history.
there is no "breaking issues" in eso as you mentioned, all it is, is that devs simply dont agree with some of the views people currently have.
and I myself along with 90% of eso community agree with the devs.

Can't tell if this is sarcasm, paid promotion, or you are just playing a completely different game then the rest of us.

Copies sold does not mean more players. Pvp and major pve areas have no where near the population that they used to have and there's plenty of videos and threads showing all of the performance problems.

We complain because we care about the game and just want the basic mechanics to work. White knighting and ignoring these issues does nothing to help the population and longevity of the game.

The trend-line is obviously going up. That's just Steam. If you look more closely at the stats, you tend to see jumps when big updates release (particularly the Chapters), and then a decline shortly thereafter, but the trend-line keeps pointing up.

Have you considered that the population density of certain zones/instances has gone down because there are more zones/instances now? Yeah, sure, maybe there aren't as many people in Rawk'kha or Elden Root as there used to be, but what about all of the people in Alinor or Lilmoth or Vivec City or the Brass Fortress? And perhaps there aren't as many people in Cyrodiil because a lot of them are playing BGs (a much easier way to get the PvP fix in, IMO).

Obviously there's no way to know how many people are playing on XB1/PS4/non-Steam PC. But as a proxy for game popularity, look at /r/elderscrollsonline:



Who knows. I certainly haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that the population is *decreasing*.

Also, as far as content creators go, here's some info on the two most popular (Fengrush and Alcast, as far as I know):

Fengrush Twitch livestream views over time:


Alcast Twitch livestream views over time:


Alcast YouTube subs over time:


It just looks to me like all of the stats are trending up.

The alcast and Fengrush jumps are embedded viewership. Let me pull an audit of actual viewers real quick.

Ogou

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.



THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

No, thats the week that Elsweyr was announced,

Elsweyr was announced on the 15th. Wrathstone was officially announced and put on the PTS on the 22nd. Dude, that is really verifiable information.

Wrthstone is utter failure.....

It's starting to sound like something you want to be true no matter what. Wrathstone is doing fine since people will be running the dungeons for both gears and achievements.

as nicely shown in the graphs (not that we didnt already know from all other sources that dungeon DLCs have been nothing but complete fail for ZOS

Except, I already showed you that the graphs do not show that.
What other sources?

Oh, now tell us what was the week preceding week of jan 20-26? You know THE week where spike (well, calling it a spike is quite generous) actually happened?



You really have to wonder about these people sometimes.

"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."


THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL But it is not surprising considering performance of previous dungeon DLCs.

I'm confused. Your own screenshot shows the peak being at the week of jan 20-26. You're contradicting yourself.

Oh, it's you! I knew I recognized your name from somewhere. So tell me, @MikaHR , since you have the ps4 trophy stats, what's the percentage of players who get to level 50? And since you're already there, what's the completion rate for the story DLC (Clockwork City, Murkmire). Because if we don't have anything to compare these numbers against they are pretty much useless.

karekiz

If were doing random baseless trophy stuff

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/3610-the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited

Support the Fight
Help capture a Resource (Farm, Lumber Mill, or Mine), and Keep in Cyrodiil.
10.5%

RIP CYRO GUYS

Level 50 Hero
Reach Level 50.

12.3%
Lower level cap plz

The Good of the Many
Stop the conspiracy sowing chaos through Summerset, protect the Crystal Tower, and forge a new alliance to restore the Isles to order.
1.4%

RIP Chapter quest lines

Kingmaker
Complete Wrothgar's main quests.

2.8%

Guess people didn't like it.

Bloodroot vanquisher

1.7%

Hell thats 1.1% difference from Wrothgar

ZOS_RogerJ

While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole. Please be sure to keep the thread civil, constructive and on-topic.

MikaHR

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.



THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

No, thats the week that Elsweyr was announced,

Elsweyr was announced on the 15th. Wrathstone was officially announced and put on the PTS on the 22nd. Dude, that is really verifiable information.

Wrthstone is utter failure.....

It's starting to sound like something you want to be true no matter what. Wrathstone is doing fine since people will be running the dungeons for both gears and achievements.

as nicely shown in the graphs (not that we didnt already know from all other sources that dungeon DLCs have been nothing but complete fail for ZOS

Except, I already showed you that the graphs do not show that.
What other sources?

Oh, now tell us what was the week preceding week of jan 20-26? You know THE week where spike (well, calling it a spike is quite generous) actually happened?



You really have to wonder about these people sometimes.

"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."


THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL But it is not surprising considering performance of previous dungeon DLCs.

I'm confused. Your own screenshot shows the peak being at the week of jan 20-26. You're contradicting yourself.

Oh, it's you! I knew I recognized your name from somewhere. So tell me, @MikaHR , since you have the ps4 trophy stats, what's the percentage of players who get to level 50? And since you're already there, what's the completion rate for the story DLC (Clockwork City, Murkmire). Because if we don't have anything to compare these numbers against they are pretty much useless.

Of course you are confused, you posted that misleading graph claiming its "Wrathstone spike" and got schooled, apparently you cannot see the blue dot on the graph. Oh yeah, its you, the guy who claim PS is rigging the numbers....or something similar....right.

Rex-Umbra

Fengush has more views on eso then Spypher on what ever he is playing that week.

Ogou

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.



THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

No, thats the week that Elsweyr was announced,

Elsweyr was announced on the 15th. Wrathstone was officially announced and put on the PTS on the 22nd. Dude, that is really verifiable information.

Wrthstone is utter failure.....

It's starting to sound like something you want to be true no matter what. Wrathstone is doing fine since people will be running the dungeons for both gears and achievements.

as nicely shown in the graphs (not that we didnt already know from all other sources that dungeon DLCs have been nothing but complete fail for ZOS

Except, I already showed you that the graphs do not show that.
What other sources?

Oh, now tell us what was the week preceding week of jan 20-26? You know THE week where spike (well, calling it a spike is quite generous) actually happened?



You really have to wonder about these people sometimes.

"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."


THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL But it is not surprising considering performance of previous dungeon DLCs.

I'm confused. Your own screenshot shows the peak being at the week of jan 20-26. You're contradicting yourself.

Oh, it's you! I knew I recognized your name from somewhere. So tell me, @MikaHR , since you have the ps4 trophy stats, what's the percentage of players who get to level 50? And since you're already there, what's the completion rate for the story DLC (Clockwork City, Murkmire). Because if we don't have anything to compare these numbers against they are pretty much useless.

Of course you are confused, you posted that misleading graph claiming its "Wrathstone spike" and got schooled, apparently you cannot see the blue dot on the graph. Oh yeah, its you, the guy who claim PS is rigging the numbers....or something similar....right.

No, I am confused because you are saying that the peak is on the week of the 13th while uploading an image showing the peek to be on the week of the 20th.

Also, nope. Never claimed that PS is rigging the numbers or anything similar. I only asked you the same question I'm asking here in another thread. And just like here, you never answered the question.

Haashhtaag

https://imgur.com/Fyu9QNk

Actual viewers of Fengrush currently at 5:55PM CST

Druid40

Much more people would rather play the game than watch someone else play it -- can't do much about that. There are a lot more people watching PVE than PVP.

Haashhtaag

Druid40 wrote: »

Much more people would rather play the game than watch someone else play it -- can't do much about that. There are a lot more people watching PVE than PVP.

It's mainly because all the good PvP players who did stream quit the game. Twitch used to be a place where you went to watch some of the better PvP players play. The creation of the stream team completely shifted the Twitch spectrum. Now you got a bunch of average and boring streams full of people who tote the company line. You don't get real players or real opinions anymore.

Druid40

If you added up all the PVE viewers and compared it to the total PVP viewers, PVE was pretty much always higher overall. Some PVPers brought in bigger individual streamer numbers, but there were only a few.

jainiadral

MikaHR wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

I played quite a bit afterwards. What drove the casual base away wasn't raiding or power creep, it was the huge difficulty spike in HoT's open world content and how grindy/solo-unfriendly the world and Mastery progression had become. I know well--it's a big part of why I quit the first time. By the time I'd hit the HoT expansion three months post-release, the maps were deserted and impossible to progress upon.

Raiding has never been GW2's problem. Instead it's been a combination of stale content releases, forgetting about their casual player base, having too many maps and thinning out the population, ignoring PvP and WvW, and terrible balancing decisions. Not to mention, being owned by NCSoft.

Yup, same wow "its a MMO" kiddies yelling...well...ITS A MMO, "harder overland content"....because of new tier of gear, raids....cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!", vertical progression and new tier of gear cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!!"....and ArenaNet devs were stupid enough to listen....now theyre out of a job....well 50% of them.

Blizzard also had mass layoffs...cuz "its a MMO!!!!!!!!"

Um, ok. I know you hate raiding, but that isn't what I'm aiming at. Raiding in and of itself doesn't sink games. Catering exclusively to the high end players does. That said, in any MMO ecosystem, you need them. The ideal game caters to everyone to a reasonable extent. The big problem in any multiplayer scenario is the single difficulty level. You need multiple tiers, not one that ultimately satisfies none of us.

LiquidPony

Haashhtaag wrote: »

https://imgur.com/Fyu9QNk

Actual viewers of Fengrush currently at 5:55PM CST

Viewers in chat != "actual viewers".

Viewers in chat == viewers in chat.

Quit trying to make it mean something it doesn't. You can be an "actual viewer" and not be in chat. I frequently run streams in the background on my work laptop where I'm not logged in to Twitch. That doesn't make me not an "actual viewer."

starkerealm

LiquidPony wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

https://imgur.com/Fyu9QNk

Actual viewers of Fengrush currently at 5:55PM CST

Viewers in chat != "actual viewers".

Viewers in chat == viewers in chat.

Quit trying to make it mean something it doesn't. You can be an "actual viewer" and not be in chat. I frequently run streams in the background on my work laptop where I'm not logged in to Twitch. That doesn't make me not an "actual viewer."

Yes, lurkers are real. However, viewer engagement in chat (overall) can help you to understand if people are actually watching a streamer, or if the streamer is pulling in unsuspecting views.

Hell, I frequently lurk in Bert's streams, and I'm actually a mod there, so I probably should be a bit more alert and alive.

witchdoctor

Just wanted to make sure that one guy's PlayStation stats were being tossed out.

Was not disappointed.

srfrogg23

Ok, so... I thought it would be good to point out that streamer viewership is not a direct indicator of players playing the game. If you're trying to divine the "population of ESO", you'd probably be better off reading tea leaves than looking at the viewership of streamers playing a 5 year old game that isn't centered around esports. Just saying...

TheValar85

im not going to lie, but he is absolutly right.

MikaHR

jainiadral wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

I played quite a bit afterwards. What drove the casual base away wasn't raiding or power creep, it was the huge difficulty spike in HoT's open world content and how grindy/solo-unfriendly the world and Mastery progression had become. I know well--it's a big part of why I quit the first time. By the time I'd hit the HoT expansion three months post-release, the maps were deserted and impossible to progress upon.

Raiding has never been GW2's problem. Instead it's been a combination of stale content releases, forgetting about their casual player base, having too many maps and thinning out the population, ignoring PvP and WvW, and terrible balancing decisions. Not to mention, being owned by NCSoft.

Yup, same wow "its a MMO" kiddies yelling...well...ITS A MMO, "harder overland content"....because of new tier of gear, raids....cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!", vertical progression and new tier of gear cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!!"....and ArenaNet devs were stupid enough to listen....now theyre out of a job....well 50% of them.

Blizzard also had mass layoffs...cuz "its a MMO!!!!!!!!"

Um, ok. I know you hate raiding, but that isn't what I'm aiming at. Raiding in and of itself doesn't sink games. Catering exclusively to the high end players does. That said, in any MMO ecosystem, you need them. The ideal game caters to everyone to a reasonable extent. The big problem in any multiplayer scenario is the single difficulty level. You need multiple tiers, not one that ultimately satisfies none of us.

There is no "catering to everyone". Game cannot be hardcore and casual at the same time. Unless you 100% instance it (like what DDO was). But then its just another lobby game and not open world game.

Game cannot have different tiers (becase of INSANE power creep for miniscule number of players) of general content at the same time. So now, because of insane power creep from CP and special snowflake PvE gear porton of people whine that "game is too easy" while portion claim its still "too hard". And yeah, im talking about WHOLE game and not tiny instanced part.

And at the end, dev hours are limited and VERY finite resource so if theyre working on thing A they are not working on thing B.

Many devs were stupid enough to fall into the trap and listen to that tiny part of population.....now theyre out of job and their games dead/dying. Just look at DLC dungeons in ESO and what EPIC fail those are....and then realize that "trials" are much worse than that.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Ok, so... I thought it would be good to point out that streamer viewership is not a direct indicator of players playing the game. If you're trying to divine the "population of ESO", you'd probably be better off reading tea leaves than looking at the viewership of streamers playing a 5 year old game that isn't centered around esports. Just saying...

Well, ask ZOS why are they now wasting $$ on sponsoring streaming when in 5 years of ESO they didnt manage ot garner anything but miniscule viewership (becasue ESO is not and will never be anything close to e-sport....or even mildly interesting to watch)

Ogou

MikaHR wrote: »

Many devs were stupid enough to fall into the trap and listen to that tiny part of population.....now theyre out of job and their games dead/dying. Just look at DLC dungeons in ESO and what EPIC fail those are....and then realize that "trials" are much worse than that.

Can you stop with the doomsday prophecies already? People have been claiming ESO is dead for years now and yet we're still here.
Repeating the same thing over and over again despite proof of the opposite is not going to make it true. DLC dungeon are an EPIC fail and yet I see people wearing Earthgore, Lord Warden and Velidreth in pugs all the time. Trials are even worse but I never have to wait more than 20 minutes to get a group together in Craglorn to pug one.

MikaHR wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Ok, so... I thought it would be good to point out that streamer viewership is not a direct indicator of players playing the game. If you're trying to divine the "population of ESO", you'd probably be better off reading tea leaves than looking at the viewership of streamers playing a 5 year old game that isn't centered around esports. Just saying...

Well, ask ZOS why are they now wasting $$ on sponsoring streaming when in 5 years of ESO they didnt manage ot garner anything but miniscule viewership (becasue ESO is not and will never be anything close to e-sport....or even mildly interesting to watch)

Yeah, how dare ZOS spend money to advertise their own game? What a world we live in.