Why are they nerfing dungeons?

lokulin · March 2019

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

I'm honestly salty about this, if you don't put in the effort to achieve a win, why should you expect the content to be nerfed, most of these fights could be done with 20 to 30k dps without many wipes so that isnt the problem, people asking for these nerfs where just borderline incompetent and/or wanted to play "their way" (Aka no mecanics/good looking sets and skills, Ive met a few), please, if you read this and asked for these nerfs, consider finding help on why you are so bad at the game and improve.

If you have already done these dungeons on vet + HM + speed run + no death, why do you care?

Because it sets the floor for new content and what is expected from players, how are you going to improve if everything stays easy and when you are faced with a challenge instead of getting better you wait for it to get nerfed, new players Will not improve if the content doesnt force them to.

New and old players won't do or buy content if they hit a skill ceiling and can't progress. Why would someone buy the new DLC if they can't even finish the old ones.

Oh no, belive me they will, why do you think they are nerfing 2 year old dungeons made with dps/mecanics in mind from that time? Also eso+ is a thing , again, if you want to do hard content, work for it , if youre absolutely sure that a 2 year old dungeon is your skill ceiling, then you arent even trying to play the game, like i said in my original post

I do work for it and have completed most of it (~85-90% achievement completion). I still think it is fine for old content to be toned down to provide a smoother difficulty gradient and access to some more achievements for all players.

biggda76 · March 2019

Tbh it's disappointing. You buy DLCs to take on challenge. Even though the dungeons are not really hard (imho) and even casual players can do them if they pay attention to mechanic. I enjoyed them being much harder than base game first time I started but even then they weren't too hard to do if you paid attention to mechanics. It's really a shame to nerf old content and probably more interesting boss fights in these dungeons

predareaper · March 2019

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

I'm honestly salty about this, if you don't put in the effort to achieve a win, why should you expect the content to be nerfed, most of these fights could be done with 20 to 30k dps without many wipes so that isnt the problem, people asking for these nerfs where just borderline incompetent and/or wanted to play "their way" (Aka no mecanics/good looking sets and skills, Ive met a few), please, if you read this and asked for these nerfs, consider finding help on why you are so bad at the game and improve.

If you have already done these dungeons on vet + HM + speed run + no death, why do you care?

Because it sets the floor for new content and what is expected from players, how are you going to improve if everything stays easy and when you are faced with a challenge instead of getting better you wait for it to get nerfed, new players Will not improve if the content doesnt force them to.

New and old players won't do or buy content if they hit a skill ceiling and can't progress. Why would someone buy the new DLC if they can't even finish the old ones.

Oh no, belive me they will, why do you think they are nerfing 2 year old dungeons made with dps/mecanics in mind from that time? Also eso+ is a thing , again, if you want to do hard content, work for it , if youre absolutely sure that a 2 year old dungeon is your skill ceiling, then you arent even trying to play the game, like i said in my original post

I do work for it and have completed most of it (~85-90% achievement completion). I still think it is fine for old content to be toned down to provide a smoother difficulty gradient and access to some more achievements for all players.

If dificulty doesnt increase but rather decrease then there is no gradient, it just makes it monotone, achievements shouldn't be given out, if thats the case, the faster you get the achieve the less its Worth later on , they are status simbols, i "could do this" not "this was handed to me because i couldnt do it"

Jeremy · March 2019

mcagatayg wrote: »

Especially old ones like Cradle of Shadows and Bloodroot etc... They are already easy to complete compared to new ones, and they were easy to do with 3 DDs. Now there is no need for a healer.

If this is true, I would agree it's a bad move.

Generally dungeons are already way too easy as they are. So if anything, they need to be buffed.

lokulin · March 2019

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

I'm honestly salty about this, if you don't put in the effort to achieve a win, why should you expect the content to be nerfed, most of these fights could be done with 20 to 30k dps without many wipes so that isnt the problem, people asking for these nerfs where just borderline incompetent and/or wanted to play "their way" (Aka no mecanics/good looking sets and skills, Ive met a few), please, if you read this and asked for these nerfs, consider finding help on why you are so bad at the game and improve.

If you have already done these dungeons on vet + HM + speed run + no death, why do you care?

Because it sets the floor for new content and what is expected from players, how are you going to improve if everything stays easy and when you are faced with a challenge instead of getting better you wait for it to get nerfed, new players Will not improve if the content doesnt force them to.

New and old players won't do or buy content if they hit a skill ceiling and can't progress. Why would someone buy the new DLC if they can't even finish the old ones.

Oh no, belive me they will, why do you think they are nerfing 2 year old dungeons made with dps/mecanics in mind from that time? Also eso+ is a thing , again, if you want to do hard content, work for it , if youre absolutely sure that a 2 year old dungeon is your skill ceiling, then you arent even trying to play the game, like i said in my original post

I do work for it and have completed most of it (~85-90% achievement completion). I still think it is fine for old content to be toned down to provide a smoother difficulty gradient and access to some more achievements for all players.

If dificulty doesnt increase but rather decrease then there is no gradient, it just makes it monotone, achievements shouldn't be given out, if thats the case, the faster you get the achieve the less its Worth later on , they are status simbols, i "could do this" not "this was handed to me because i couldnt do it"

The achievement is worth the same to me. If someone else gets it after it is nerfed it is no skin off my nose. Then again, I am not one to go in for so called status symbols. I feel as if we are coming at this from different ends of a spectrum so are unlikely to ever agree.

Emmagoldman · March 2019

I wonder what kind of stats these dlcs have? I would be interested to see the numbers on how many people have done different dlcs in vet. Its probably a dmall margin

predareaper · March 2019

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

I'm honestly salty about this, if you don't put in the effort to achieve a win, why should you expect the content to be nerfed, most of these fights could be done with 20 to 30k dps without many wipes so that isnt the problem, people asking for these nerfs where just borderline incompetent and/or wanted to play "their way" (Aka no mecanics/good looking sets and skills, Ive met a few), please, if you read this and asked for these nerfs, consider finding help on why you are so bad at the game and improve.

If you have already done these dungeons on vet + HM + speed run + no death, why do you care?

Because it sets the floor for new content and what is expected from players, how are you going to improve if everything stays easy and when you are faced with a challenge instead of getting better you wait for it to get nerfed, new players Will not improve if the content doesnt force them to.

New and old players won't do or buy content if they hit a skill ceiling and can't progress. Why would someone buy the new DLC if they can't even finish the old ones.

Oh no, belive me they will, why do you think they are nerfing 2 year old dungeons made with dps/mecanics in mind from that time? Also eso+ is a thing , again, if you want to do hard content, work for it , if youre absolutely sure that a 2 year old dungeon is your skill ceiling, then you arent even trying to play the game, like i said in my original post

I do work for it and have completed most of it (~85-90% achievement completion). I still think it is fine for old content to be toned down to provide a smoother difficulty gradient and access to some more achievements for all players.

If dificulty doesnt increase but rather decrease then there is no gradient, it just makes it monotone, achievements shouldn't be given out, if thats the case, the faster you get the achieve the less its Worth later on , they are status simbols, i "could do this" not "this was handed to me because i couldnt do it"

The achievement is worth the same to me. If someone else gets it after it is nerfed it is no skin off my nose. Then again, I am not one to go in for so called status symbols. I feel as if we are coming at this from different ends of a spectrum so are unlikely to ever agree.

I suppose so, don't get me wrong i want everyone to improve, but you have to understand that not everyone should get everything just cause they play a game

HappyLittleTree · March 2019

I will say it again and again. If you happen to get into a DLC dungeon with random dungeon and don't want to do it teleport in another dungeon and just finish that one for example fungal 1...and you will still get the random dungeon reward...

...Done

Rungar · March 2019

predareaper wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

this is just a failure of the model. The vet dlc dungeons are inaccessible because they are designed for players who have the following:

voice coms
guild backup to learn encounters
light weaving

many pugs wont have any of this and thus failure and avoidance will be the result in many cases.

its not so much a skill thing as an organization thing.

Guilds in this game are weak because of the traders
many players dont like or use light weaving
pc players need 3rd party voice coms

Stop telling people to L2P and figure out why they dont want to.

Light weaving is endorsed by the game if youre not doing it youre failing basic game mecanics, organization is skill, díscord is free to use(no real need to speak if youre being explained, text can do) and console has voice chat, again, failure to search to improve ones self is not the reason to nerf content

did you ever think that there might be an issue with your behavior that causes others to not want to do these things?

profundidob16_ESO · March 2019

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

I'm honestly salty about this, if you don't put in the effort to achieve a win, why should you expect the content to be nerfed, most of these fights could be done with 20 to 30k dps without many wipes so that isnt the problem, people asking for these nerfs where just borderline incompetent and/or wanted to play "their way" (Aka no mecanics/good looking sets and skills, Ive met a few), please, if you read this and asked for these nerfs, consider finding help on why you are so bad at the game and improve.

If you have already done these dungeons on vet + HM + speed run + no death, why do you care?

Because it sets the floor for new content and what is expected from players, how are you going to improve if everything stays easy and when you are faced with a challenge instead of getting better you wait for it to get nerfed, new players Will not improve if the content doesnt force them to.

New and old players won't do or buy content if they hit a skill ceiling and can't progress. Why would someone buy the new DLC if they can't even finish the old ones.

Oh no, belive me they will, why do you think they are nerfing 2 year old dungeons made with dps/mecanics in mind from that time? Also eso+ is a thing , again, if you want to do hard content, work for it , if youre absolutely sure that a 2 year old dungeon is your skill ceiling, then you arent even trying to play the game, like i said in my original post

I do work for it and have completed most of it (~85-90% achievement completion). I still think it is fine for old content to be toned down to provide a smoother difficulty gradient and access to some more achievements for all players.

If dificulty doesnt increase but rather decrease then there is no gradient, it just makes it monotone, achievements shouldn't be given out, if thats the case, the faster you get the achieve the less its Worth later on , they are status simbols, i "could do this" not "this was handed to me because i couldnt do it"

The achievement is worth the same to me. If someone else gets it after it is nerfed it is no skin off my nose. Then again, I am not one to go in for so called status symbols. I feel as if we are coming at this from different ends of a spectrum so are unlikely to ever agree.

let me correct the sentence for you @predareaper

"The faster you get the achievement the more valuable the date stamp on it becomes later on" (in case bragging rights matter to you)

code65536 · March 2019

Well, I have been saying elsewhere that the power creep hasn't applied to people equally.

The last time I did Kena HM, she died before her second shield fully materialized--i.e., we skipped the final shield/immunity phase and completely bypassed the execute phase (the "hard" part of HM).

So, yea, there's been a ton of power creep and the content has been severely nerfed indirectly as a result of that power creep. But that power creep has also been applied unevenly. What we really have is a power gap. For a number of people, these are unwelcome nerfs to content that's already become too easy. But yet the completion rates would suggest that these are still prohibitively difficult for too many players.

predareaper · March 2019

Rungar wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

this is just a failure of the model. The vet dlc dungeons are inaccessible because they are designed for players who have the following:

voice coms
guild backup to learn encounters
light weaving

many pugs wont have any of this and thus failure and avoidance will be the result in many cases.

its not so much a skill thing as an organization thing.

Guilds in this game are weak because of the traders
many players dont like or use light weaving
pc players need 3rd party voice coms

Stop telling people to L2P and figure out why they dont want to.

Light weaving is endorsed by the game if youre not doing it youre failing basic game mecanics, organization is skill, díscord is free to use(no real need to speak if youre being explained, text can do) and console has voice chat, again, failure to search to improve ones self is not the reason to nerf content

did you ever think that there might be an issue with your behavior that causes others to not want to do these things?

My behavior has nothing to do with the fact that people won't light weave, and as i have been saying, i WANT people to IMPROVE, if you ask around guilds ingame you might find that im actually a mentor in some, i just don't like people complaining avout something they CAN do but won't put in the effort

FierceSam · March 2019

As someone who spent a while failing to get through the Planar Inhibitor, I can understand these changes. I am in favour of anything that makes more people WANT to play the DLC content.

However, these changes highlight a fundamental issue with ZOS's dungeon design. There is no space for learning.

In normal mode, there are no mechanics if you have sufficient DPS - see the DoM's King Narilmor and/or the Symphony of Blades. If you have the dps, none of the mechanics that appear in vet ever take place, so it is impossible to learn them.

For me, understanding the mechanics and learning how to defeat them is what makes a dungeon challenging and fun, whatever your level. You cannot do this on normal as dps trumps the mechanics every time. This has an impact on vet versions as it's only here that players encounter these mechanics for the first time and this reveals the issue ZOS has with their dungeon design.

The fundamental issue ZOS have designed themselves into is that the only way to understand and learn a dungeon's mechanics is to jump straight into vet and there is NO difference between vet and vet HM until the final boss. So the Planar Inhibitor, like Galchobar is identical for everyone. And a short time after release everyone is just supposed to KNOW how they work and how to defeat them. Which makes it pretty unforgiving for players new to the dungeon (however experienced they might be).

The only effective way to deal with this in the short term is to nerf the non-final bosses (and non-HM final bosses), making vet mode easier, thus creating an environment where the mechanics are visible, but not catastrophically fatal. The fact that this is what normal mode SHOULD be is immaterial. The longer term solution will be to either make groups choose between vet and vet HM much earlier in the dungeon, or to give each boss their own, individual HM version.

TL:DR it should be easier to learn the mechanics, but still challenging to do them on HM. That's the way to get more players into the DLC content. Which is what we all want.

Nemesis7884 · March 2019

Normal or vet dungeons bein nerved? Maybe they should add a cp recommendation for dungeons in the group finder

predareaper · March 2019

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

predareaper wrote: »

I'm honestly salty about this, if you don't put in the effort to achieve a win, why should you expect the content to be nerfed, most of these fights could be done with 20 to 30k dps without many wipes so that isnt the problem, people asking for these nerfs where just borderline incompetent and/or wanted to play "their way" (Aka no mecanics/good looking sets and skills, Ive met a few), please, if you read this and asked for these nerfs, consider finding help on why you are so bad at the game and improve.

If you have already done these dungeons on vet + HM + speed run + no death, why do you care?

Because it sets the floor for new content and what is expected from players, how are you going to improve if everything stays easy and when you are faced with a challenge instead of getting better you wait for it to get nerfed, new players Will not improve if the content doesnt force them to.

New and old players won't do or buy content if they hit a skill ceiling and can't progress. Why would someone buy the new DLC if they can't even finish the old ones.

Oh no, belive me they will, why do you think they are nerfing 2 year old dungeons made with dps/mecanics in mind from that time? Also eso+ is a thing , again, if you want to do hard content, work for it , if youre absolutely sure that a 2 year old dungeon is your skill ceiling, then you arent even trying to play the game, like i said in my original post

I do work for it and have completed most of it (~85-90% achievement completion). I still think it is fine for old content to be toned down to provide a smoother difficulty gradient and access to some more achievements for all players.

If dificulty doesnt increase but rather decrease then there is no gradient, it just makes it monotone, achievements shouldn't be given out, if thats the case, the faster you get the achieve the less its Worth later on , they are status simbols, i "could do this" not "this was handed to me because i couldnt do it"

The achievement is worth the same to me. If someone else gets it after it is nerfed it is no skin off my nose. Then again, I am not one to go in for so called status symbols. I feel as if we are coming at this from different ends of a spectrum so are unlikely to ever agree.

let me correct the sentence for you @predareaper

"The faster you get the achievement the more valuable the date stamp on it becomes later on" (in case bragging rights matter to you)

People don't see dates, they see titles, colors, skins and personalities, but the effort you put into that only you can see, so if they make it easier your effort is Worth less than theirs

pod88kk · March 2019

It's so all the 'Play the way you want to play' players can slowly run through the dungeons trying to hit something with their bow light attacks(their only move)

ZeroXFF · March 2019

Vildebill wrote: »

The bull in bloodroot got a big nerf. Sad, since almost all extra damage could be avoided by just following mechanics.

That's the weirdest one. The mechanics were predictable, and there was no randomness that killed anyone just because you got unlucky. All of the mechanics could be reliably dealt with. The only thing that was a bit difficult was when the boss does his big AoE right after a stone atro activated, and the timer for the one shot mechanic from the atro continued. Stopping that timer during the AoE is really the only adjustment it needed. Same with WGT, except no adjustment was necessary at all.

In vCoS hm you could get killed by the big AoE from the statue when you're not supposed to run around, but that would be easily addressed by suspending that mechanic in that moment, no other nerfs were necessary. I don't even remember when the last time was I wasn't able to do it with a PUG, just tell your tank not to use ultimate, and all you ever get are red orbs that the healer can easily outheal.

What does need a nerf however is vSP hm. Stop the orb beam and the ice circle when the boss does the fire beam attack so that the tank isn't forced out of the beam by them when he tries to intercept it, and it will also turn into an encounter that is more skill than RNG based.

They did the right thing with vFH in 4.3.5 though. Up to the last boss I could carry the group, but the last boss was hardcore even if the other people were moderately competent. Did it a few times since then, and it is way less frustrating when I can just jesus beam the boss to death in execute while dodging his heavies and running from the adds.

James-Wayne · March 2019

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

but why they nerf them I dunno....maybe they have a Idea on how to progress with CP changes, and are already wokring on adjustments for the content.

Agreed. I think there is some big changes coming soon.

predareaper · March 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

As someone who spent a while failing to get through the Planar Inhibitor, I can understand these changes. I am in favour of anything that makes more people WANT to play the DLC content.

However, these changes highlight a fundamental issue with ZOS's dungeon design. There is no space for learning.

In normal mode, there are no mechanics if you have sufficient DPS - see the DoM's King Narilmor and/or the Symphony of Blades. If you have the dps, none of the mechanics that appear in vet ever take place, so it is impossible to learn them.

For me, understanding the mechanics and learning how to defeat them is what makes a dungeon challenging and fun, whatever your level. You cannot do this on normal as dps trumps the mechanics every time. This has an impact on vet versions as it's only here that players encounter these mechanics for the first time and this reveals the issue ZOS has with their dungeon design.

The fundamental issue ZOS have designed themselves into is that the only way to understand and learn a dungeon's mechanics is to jump straight into vet and there is NO difference between vet and vet HM until the final boss. So the Planar Inhibitor, like Galchobar is identical for everyone. And a short time after release everyone is just supposed to KNOW how they work and how to defeat them. Which makes it pretty unforgiving for players new to the dungeon (however experienced they might be).

The only effective way to deal with this in the short term is to nerf the non-final bosses (and non-HM final bosses), making vet mode easier, thus creating an environment where the mechanics are visible, but not catastrophically fatal. The fact that this is what normal mode SHOULD be is immaterial. The longer term solution will be to either make groups choose between vet and vet HM much earlier in the dungeon, or to give each boss their own, individual HM version.

TL:DR it should be easier to learn the mechanics, but still challenging to do them on HM. That's the way to get more players into the DLC content. Which is what we all want.

This person has an understanding that i can get behind, no nerfs, but people working to get better

Darkenarlol · March 2019

they just removed mechanics that didn't allow bosmers

to shine with their brand-new roll-dodge passive

soon in patchnotes

- replaced all bosses mechanics with the ones of target dummy skeleton

- reworked all bosses HP so they die to 1 light attack on normal and 2 on vet

Reverb · March 2019

To touch on the role of healers mentioned in some of these comments, it’s true that healers aren’t really necessary in most of these dlc dungeons. I say this as someone who has played a healer since launch and has healed almost all group content on vet, hm.

Most new 4-man content has an over reliance on 1-shot mechanics. It’s a simple matter of “respect the mechanics and live, or don’t and die”. There are no continual, moderate sources of incoming damage that would make a healer more beneficial than a 3rd DPS. There’s no damage outside of 1-shots that’s beyond even meager class self heals on a dps, there are no buffs I can provide as a healer that a dps doesn’t have easy access to on his own. And because our best “oh s**t!” heals require us to be facing or directly behind a target, but new mechanics force people to be spread out all over the fight area, healers don’t help much in that capacity anymore either.

SpacemanSpiff1 · March 2019

Emmagoldman wrote: »

I wonder what kind of stats these dlcs have? I would be interested to see the numbers on how many people have done different dlcs in vet. Its probably a dmall margin

This is probably a big factor. In the past, ZOS has nerfed dungeons because so few people were completing them or attempting to complete them. Content was largely being avoided so they made adjustments.

oxygen_thief · March 2019

Darkenarlol wrote: »

- replaced all bosses mechanics with the ones of target dummy skeleton

but this is what all pve elite dudes are training for. everybody should be happy in that case.

ChunkyCat · March 2019

Well, ZoS probably crunched the numbers and realized that most players don’t do the Vet DLC pledges. And before you get all salty, would you want to try a new dungeon with a group of low cp PuGs?

Those new dungeons are starting to out number the old ones, too.

So it looks like a business decision was made.

Odovacar · March 2019

I'm surprised these dungeon nerfs have surprised even our class reps...they have a NDA and they were still not privy to this knowledge...this isn't just some small change this is big...

I agree with a lot of comments I've read so far especially the ones relating to newer players bridging the gap between traditionally harder DLC dungeons mechanics that prepare players for even harder mechanics heavy vet trials ...now there is a huge gap between the two

Suddwrath · March 2019

@ZOS_Finn @ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we at least get some commentary on why these changes were even made in the first place?

efster · March 2019

As an individual human with feelings, I"m not glad they're nerfing these bc I had to do 'em uphill both ways in the snow (

), and it feels unfair that people will not have to expend the same level of effort going forward. BUT I also can recognise it's better for the game to make more content accessible to more players, in this context -- and it's the same reason I'm glad that the Wrathstone dungeons are so much more accessible at the outset, and that the most coveted skin and pet achievements are not locked behind hours of frustration. Keep fancy titles difficult, but let more players have shinies they can earn. More content that can actually be completed leads to increased overall player satisfaction.

Significant difficulty is still there in the HM/speed/no death/all of the above achievements. Hell, I want to see the basegame hardmodes that were crowbarred in when they added the normal/vet tiers to group dungeons turned into actual challenges rather than "this boss now has more health and will hit you a bit harder, glhf". Put some hardmodes in the Craglorn 4p delves just for fun, for more nirnhoned items. Put a hardmode into vDSA; the last boss fight has been a joke for years.

I would honestly rather they upped the difficulty of normals so it would actually prepare you for vet so people who've farmed
norm Fang Lair for Caluurion wouldn't come into a vet menagerie fight and nope the entire hell out after 2 hours wiping because of how utterly unprepared they are for the level of damage vet brings compared to normal. But lbr there would be actual pitchforks if they made normals more difficult, so nerfing old vets is the only way to shrink the gap.

I do think that healers are in trouble. Vet Blackrose is legit the only content you actually need a healer in outside of trials, and even that's only if the tank isn't a DK. Where are new PVE healers supposed to learn, in vet trials?

Shawn_PT · March 2019

I'm guessing the reason for this is because those two fights are usually where less experienced groups go to die. They can't progress from non HM to HM if they can't even reach the final boss. In the case of the Planar Inhibitor, it was definitely the PUG killer in WTG. Even on normal. Galchobar not so much but the few times I have PUGed that dungeon I've indeed noticed that players cannot handle both mechanics at the same time, for whatever reason.

Last time I went there it went like this. Tank taunted boss and stood in the middle. DDs/healer did their job. Shalk shows up. Wanders about chasing someone who starts running away. Tank starts chasing Shalk to taunt in, lava geyser spawns, we all fry nearly to death because tank was away. Next round, same thing until the Shalk spits flame at someone who will stop doing their job to then run around in circles trying to outrun the ball, which ends up in them being caught and dying because they failed ro learn how to deal with the mechanic even though the dungeon explains that in previous encounters. While three of four members are busy, the atronach spawns. Surprise, no one goes for it. Hammer throw comes, one player doesn't notice the huge AoE and stands in there to be incinerated, the other one jumps off but commits suicide immediately by jumping back in while the fire is still up. Atronach proceeds to kill everyone. Repeat several times until someone gives up/group disbands.

Narvuntien · March 2019

Look the Planar inhibitor fight made my brain melt whenever I tried to do it. Group members would try to tell me to wait until the boss drops down twice and turns blue or something and I honestly could never work out what I was supposed to do it was maddening. All my attempts at Vet WGT resulted in me getting stuck in there for hours.

"Practice in normal" : That doesn't help you learn it at all because a tank could actually just tank that thing on normal and the dps can kill the boss before it becomes too much for the tank to bear. The gap between normal and vet was too big.

Honestly, I'd of just liked a clearer idea of when someone other than the main tank has to take the aggro. The current fight gives no indication of what you have to do you can only learn it from someone else and they don't always know how to explain it well.

If they want people to pay money for dungeon DLC or ESO+ Then they have to make this content worth it for non-hardcore players.

Lord_Eomer · March 2019

These dungeons are not fully nerf but specific Boss fight is,

Probably, ZOS have stats and may taking this descion to encourage players completing difficult dungeon contents.

Many of players are avoiding these dungeons due to hard difficulty and mechanics.