Shocking that the two most blatant violations of the lore we've seen in this game in a long time are #1 and #2.

mikemacon wrote: »

None of them.

These changes are actually incredibly balanced, if the extensive PTS testing is to be believed.

If you are good enough to not care about max health, like their tests didn't, then it's balanced. If you need to get to 17k or higher, orc is the hands down winner.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Bosmer are now stronger in PvP and PvE. I don't understand what the beef is?

Like stealth RP or something??

Apparently you missed the other 5 games where Bosmer were one of the two premier thief style races. Now they are not. Now they are the premier guard race. And that's crap.

So yes, it's a rp/questing thing.

For pvp the changes are really good. The changes are a buff for endgame pve too.

I mainly PvP, so my bosmer stamblade is happy with the changes.

@Brrrofski So did you ignore my entire post on purpose?

max_only wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Bosmer are now stronger in PvP and PvE. I don't understand what the beef is?

Like stealth RP or something??

Apparently you missed the other 5 games where Bosmer were one of the two premier thief style races. Now they are not. Now they are the premier guard race. And that's crap.

So yes, it's a rp/questing thing.

For pvp the changes are really good. The changes are a buff for endgame pve too.

I mainly PvP, so my bosmer stamblade is happy with the changes.

So did you ignore my entire post on purpose?

Come on, leave him alone. He's "mainly PvP", PVPer doesn't read, he crushes. SMOrc

I HATE the bosmer changes. I don't pvp much if at all so stealth detection does nothing for me. I rolled bosmer characters for fun doing the thieves guild and dark brotherhood related quests and heists/dark sacaraments, so these changes are a straight nerf and I don't want to make cats. I had also finally gotten my bosmer nightblade the werewolf line and was really enjoying that for when I was not sneaking around made lore sense and everything, I got to enjoy that for about 2 weeks when now the race gets nerfed. Now I want to cancel my sub and cancel my elsweyr prepurchase.

Oh and hated just slightly less than the Bosmer changes.. Altmer changes, as my main is an Altmer sorc which is now COMPLETELY overshadowed by Dunmer, it used to be "Dunmer is better unless you exclusively use lightning, then Altmer is arguably just as good" now it's Altmer are clearly worse than Dunmer, across the board.

Weapon damage doesn't make sense for orc. They are described as shock troopers and one would think that would imply clashing melee and thus a buff to melee skills like they had before and not a flat weapon damage buff. Their speed will likely be nerfed as a result and they will be the same as the other stamina races with nothing to make them distinct except raw damage stats. Flat weapon damage goes well with medium armor and saturates heavy armor weapon dmg proc sets. And the orcs exp buff is in heavy armor. The orc weapon damage buff leads them towards medium armor builds with bow and not heavy armor melee builds with % weapon dmg procs. It is a contradiction between intent and reality. A contradiction that will likely result in a nerf to movement speed which will be marginal next to medium armor passive. A movement speed buff which is relevant in heavy armor.

Ruckly wrote: »

Weapon damage doesn't make sense for orc. They are described as shock troopers and one would think that would imply clashing melee and thus a buff to melee skills like they had before and not a flat weapon damage buff. Their speed will likely be nerfed as a result and they will be the same as the other stamina races with nothing to make them distinct except raw damage stats. Flat weapon damage goes well with medium armor and saturates heavy armor weapon dmg proc sets. And the orcs exp buff is in heavy armor. The orc weapon damage buff leads them towards medium armor builds with bow and not heavy armor melee builds with % weapon dmg procs. It is a contradiction between intent and reality. A contradiction that will likely result in a nerf to movement speed which will be marginal next to medium armor passive. A movement speed buff which is relevant in heavy armor.

Well there reasoning is Orcs are meant to be an aggressive race, which focus mainly on momentum and overwhelming their opponents. To bring that play style to realization we took away some of their more defensive stats, and put them back into offensive ones, or ones that required aggressive conditions to proc. Additionally, their previous bonus to offensive power was gated to only melee builds, and didn’t scale with many abilities that were still used by melee builds; so we converted it into a bonus that all aggressive play styles can use.

My personal Opinion, Orcs are warriors yes and Honorable ones. But they are also smiths, builders but most importantly they are also defenders and tough, hard to kill and have a natural talent allowing them to go under a controled Berserker rage.
Toughness, Controlled Rage, they can be some of the best weaponsmiths, armorers, and jewelers. Traits typically assigned to Dwarves In settings such as d&d.

I do think Orcs Skills Should Reflect this, Being Dps/Tank and Artisans. Their passives should reflect them as beserkers and as defenders and artisans. As they are the closest thing Elder Scrolls will ever get to Dwarves. Orcs are the ones who basically feel that role. The Dwarves of the series were more like Gnomes and basically got destroyed by a Dragonbreak. Because of that Orcs fill the role they traditionally held.

I do not think they will nerf Orc Speed, they added that on purpose. If they have to reduce the speed of it. But I think they have their minds set on what Orcs Should be. I do hope they Fix bosmer because that was really a mess up. Orcs are nothing compared to what they did to the best thieves and sneaks in all of Tamriel. This is what people are so upset about. Some might feel as as if they striped the race of its identity of its being of its soul.
Here is why the Altmer Basically had to steal From the bosmer in order to win land within Valenwood and not only that but to get their respect. The Rite of Theft is a very important Rite the Bosmeri People hold dear. They have poems about ways to sneak and also tales of great thefts. The Bosmer Culture is three things, respect for the green, Rite of Theft and Archery. Protecting the Forests, eating only meat and Thieving. I think people will continue to voice their opinions about this change untill they finally fix this. The other races mostly kept their identities but they striped away what made the Bosmer who they are and one of the reasons why poll has Bosmer winning as one of the worst racial changes this patch.

HUMAN time is done , time for orcs !!!!

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Still can't believe what they did to Altmer.

I mean Bosmer changes suck, but I don't think anyone, apart from gankers will see a difference in gameplay.

Altmers though...why would I not reroll all my Altmer toons to Breton for pvp. As far as I can tell, they're vastly superior right now.

Thieves Guild Heists and Dark Brotherhood sacraments, and general stealing and thieving, that's what I made bosmer for, not PVP, and I don't want to roll furries.

max_only wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Bosmer are now stronger in PvP and PvE. I don't understand what the beef is?

Like stealth RP or something??

Apparently you missed the other 5 games where Bosmer were one of the two premier thief style races. Now they are not. Now they are the premier guard race. And that's crap.

So yes, it's a rp/questing thing.

For pvp the changes are really good. The changes are a buff for endgame pve too.

I mainly PvP, so my bosmer stamblade is happy with the changes.

@Brrrofski So did you ignore my entire post on purpose?

@max_only Another neutron star, it seems, mate.

@Brrrofski The whole problem with the Bosmer change is that it makes them the ONLY race with a passive that has use only in PvP (and even then, barely so) and zero use in PvE. And your reply to that is "whatever, I only PvP so I'm good". Well, good for you. Not selfish at all, either, geez.

Again, and again, and again, it's not RP, it's gameplay. A bonus that gives you the choice to avoid combat entirely, to gear for mobility while in stealth (something I lost since last patch, I'm sluggish as Granny Gravius now), to remain unseen much easier in some missions... It's not RP, it's gameplay.

But then again, you seem to not understand the difference between lore and RP either.

I'm a roleplayer but I do pve and pvp as well when playing Eso or at least I have been. What bugs me is what should belong to one race is belonging to another. In this case, Khajiit and Bosmer. Cat Senses, Cat Acrobatics, Cat Agility. I see that in these Bosmer Passives, and I see the Bosmer Sneak and Theft Within these Khajiit Passives. Flip some of those passives around to the other race where they make the most sense and I would be happy even if they are useless the Stealth Detect would be lore friendly for Khajiit and make one feel as if they are able to sense things no other race can one could with this passive and thus Khajiit having it would make me happy. Khajiit having Fall Damage reduction I would be happy with that. Better to be stuck with a lore friendly passive then one that does not make much sense. Just my two cents. What they could do to make Stealth Detection more viable for the Khajiit is they can also increase the radius of stealth detection and also add npcs that use skills or invisibility that require stealth detection in order to see. Maybe even in Trials and also bosses who use the invisibility skill. Making this a skill one must have in order to beat them. I don't see why they should not do it. Not like it would hurt it would even make things more interesting.

REMOVE racial buff , and only put fun , optional race lore things. Or let's players choose the buff they want.

Gardragon wrote: »

REMOVE racial buff , and only put fun , optional race lore things. Or let's players choose the buff they want.

No, part of any RPG is making choices that have meaning, including your class and race. If you homogenize everything then no choices have meaning and what's the point?

Brrrofski wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Bosmer are now stronger in PvP and PvE. I don't understand what the beef is?

Like stealth RP or something??

Apparently you missed the other 5 games where Bosmer were one of the two premier thief style races. Now they are not. Now they are the premier guard race. And that's crap.

So yes, it's a rp/questing thing.

For pvp the changes are really good. The changes are a buff for endgame pve too.

I mainly PvP, so my bosmer stamblade is happy with the changes.

@Brrrofski So did you ignore my entire post on purpose?

I didn't even see you post mate.

It's a fair complaint then. Didn't quite realise THAT many people snuck around thieving in PvP. Or, that being a bosmer was that essential. I've maxed out ledgermain and done a ton of stealing on my redguard dk so didn't realise the passive was that big.

People do need to realise 2 things though...

Firstly, people have been complaining for years for more variety at end game PVE as far as races go and this change to bosmers puts them up there as a valid choice.

Secondly, people have been complaining for years about ganking and sniping in PvP so they removed the stealth passives around that more than likely. ZOS being ZOS not realising that the tiny bit of damage loss will make no difference and want makes ganking effective is the stupid stun from stealth.

So ZOS address these two things. I for one love the new passive - speed and pen are both way more useful for what I use bosmer for than the extra damage from stealth and sneak bonus.

Please explain how removing a stealth bonus from 50% of the races that had them improves variety in the TG and DB lines?

Also, if the goal was to remove ganking it clearly failed, since Khajiit kept the hiding bonus AND they get a 10% boost to all crit damage. Throw on a shadow cloak with 3s guaranteed crits and they weren't nerfed at all. So gankers will just go Khajiit.