Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
-
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Gimme sec, gonna find the morrowind book that specified how number of passives in 2E affected magicka affnity :P
Let's agree to disagree at this point. It just doesn't make any sense to continue the discussion. We have opposing views but apparently the negative performance impact of this stamina component is minimal. So from a balance point of view it doesn't really matter and going back and forth on what's appropriate for High-Elves lore-wise is not really productive :P
See thats the only way to end the discussion. Because understanding lore is subjective and it was written from subjective point of view (of real world authors and subjective view of NPCs they were imitating). So as in your subjective view best magicka race must have most magicka racials, in someone else's view it means having most DPS. And in my view it means casting the strongest spells... which they do since they have the highest raw strength.
So yes, agree to disagree
Edited by SodanTok on February 7, 2019 10:34PM1 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Morrowind attributes (taking averages of male and female, ignoring Personality, Luck, and Speed [speed is the same for both anyway]):
Altmer
Strength: 30
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 40
Agility: 40
Endurance: 35
Breton
Strength: 35
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 50
Agility: 30
Endurance: 30
Battlespire modifiers:
Altmer
+10 Long Blade
+10 Short Blade
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
+5 Mysticism
+5 Illusion
Breton
+10 Destruction
+10 Mysticism
+10 Illusion
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
BuT MUh LoRE is mostly just a poor excuse for people to complain about their Altmer characters getting changed.
Also, Altmer had a weakness to magic and the elements back in those days (and Oblivion too iirc) which is a bit of a blemish on a magically inclined race. Perhaps this new passive is this game's blemish?
Bit of a stretch, but it would be fitting thenEdited by Tryxus on February 7, 2019 10:38PM"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidPony wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Morrowind attributes (taking averages of male and female, ignoring Personality, Luck, and Speed [speed is the same for both anyway]):
Altmer
Strength: 30
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 40
Agility: 40
Endurance: 35
Breton
Strength: 35
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 50
Agility: 30
Endurance: 30
Battlespire modifiers:
Altmer
+10 Long Blade
+10 Short Blade
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
+5 Mysticism
+5 Illusion
Breton
+10 Destruction
+10 Mysticism
+10 Illusion
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
BuT MUh LoRE is mostly just a poor excuse for people to complain about their Altmer characters getting changed.
Also, Altmer had a weakness to magic and the elements back in those days (and Oblivion too iirc) which is a bit of a blemish on a magically inclined race. Perhaps this new passive is this game's blemish?
Bit of a stretch, but it would be fitting then
Sure they also moved faster due to being taller and how the games made your move speed. So they should have a bigger bonus than the orcs to speed. They also had double the max magicka bonus of Breton. So give them 4000 max magicka while youre at.
Edited by grannas211 on February 7, 2019 10:43PM3 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@grannas211 , I specifically included "when combat passives are concerned", not sure why you chose to omit that part and still mention health, health return and reduced cost speed. We're speaking PvE damage parses, comparing combat related passives.
Because I'm speaking in general. You cant compare them. Racial passives at this moment are not balanced across the board. And yes 1000 health would be helpful in pve over 0 health.
You're the only one speaking in general, that's the thing. We're comparing damage potential, all other things equal. And with new changes to CP scaling, altmers would be sitting at comfortable levels of health even running regen food and won't have to trade max stat (and with raid support most will be running blue food buffed by 20% now, which makes max health a non-issue). So no, it's a mistake going into comparisons between non-combat stats of orc and altmer - both because this thread is concerned with damage, and because if you do, then I'll start recounting all those places in PvE where it's crucial for magicka to be topped off on stamina to be mobile, break free from snares and what have you.LiquidPony wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Morrowind attributes (taking averages of male and female, ignoring Personality, Luck, and Speed [speed is the same for both anyway]):
Altmer
Strength: 30
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 40
Agility: 40
Endurance: 35
Breton
Strength: 35
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 50
Agility: 30
Endurance: 30
Battlespire modifiers:
Altmer
+10 Long Blade
+10 Short Blade
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
+5 Mysticism
+5 Illusion
Breton
+10 Destruction
+10 Mysticism
+10 Illusion
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
BuT MUh LoRE is mostly just a poor excuse for people to complain about their Altmer characters getting changed.
look at the Plus to Max Magicka across the games. High Elf is always double.
I don't think "plus to max magicka" even applies across all the games. But regardless ... so what? I don't think there's anything in "the lore" that indicates that Altmer *should be* better mages than Bretons, and there is certainly some historical precedent for Altmer having a small amount of "stamina"-related bonuses (as it relates to ESO).
Regardless, this whole thread is and has been irrelevant. Altmer and Bretons are virtually identical in terms of magicka DPS on pts 4.3.2.3 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidPony wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@grannas211 , I specifically included "when combat passives are concerned", not sure why you chose to omit that part and still mention health, health return and reduced cost speed. We're speaking PvE damage parses, comparing combat related passives.
Because I'm speaking in general. You cant compare them. Racial passives at this moment are not balanced across the board. And yes 1000 health would be helpful in pve over 0 health.
You're the only one speaking in general, that's the thing. We're comparing damage potential, all other things equal. And with new changes to CP scaling, altmers would be sitting at comfortable levels of health even running regen food and won't have to trade max stat (and with raid support most will be running blue food buffed by 20% now, which makes max health a non-issue). So no, it's a mistake going into comparisons between non-combat stats of orc and altmer - both because this thread is concerned with damage, and because if you do, then I'll start recounting all those places in PvE where it's crucial for magicka to be topped off on stamina to be mobile, break free from snares and what have you.LiquidPony wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Morrowind attributes (taking averages of male and female, ignoring Personality, Luck, and Speed [speed is the same for both anyway]):
Altmer
Strength: 30
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 40
Agility: 40
Endurance: 35
Breton
Strength: 35
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 50
Agility: 30
Endurance: 30
Battlespire modifiers:
Altmer
+10 Long Blade
+10 Short Blade
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
+5 Mysticism
+5 Illusion
Breton
+10 Destruction
+10 Mysticism
+10 Illusion
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
BuT MUh LoRE is mostly just a poor excuse for people to complain about their Altmer characters getting changed.
look at the Plus to Max Magicka across the games. High Elf is always double.
I don't think "plus to max magicka" even applies across all the games. But regardless ... so what? I don't think there's anything in "the lore" that indicates that Altmer *should be* better mages than Bretons, and there is certainly some historical precedent for Altmer having a small amount of "stamina"-related bonuses (as it relates to ESO).
Regardless, this whole thread is and has been irrelevant. Altmer and Bretons are virtually identical in terms of magicka DPS on pts 4.3.2.
BuT MUh LoRE
That was why I responded.
But this is getting way off the beaten path.0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Morrowind attributes (taking averages of male and female, ignoring Personality, Luck, and Speed [speed is the same for both anyway]):
Altmer
Strength: 30
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 40
Agility: 40
Endurance: 35
Breton
Strength: 35
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 50
Agility: 30
Endurance: 30
Battlespire modifiers:
Altmer
+10 Long Blade
+10 Short Blade
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
+5 Mysticism
+5 Illusion
Breton
+10 Destruction
+10 Mysticism
+10 Illusion
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
BuT MUh LoRE is mostly just a poor excuse for people to complain about their Altmer characters getting changed.
Also, Altmer had a weakness to magic and the elements back in those days (and Oblivion too iirc) which is a bit of a blemish on a magically inclined race. Perhaps this new passive is this game's blemish?
Bit of a stretch, but it would be fitting then
Sure they also moved faster due to being taller and how the games made your move speed. So they should have a bigger bonus than the orcs to speed. They also had double the max magicka bonus of Breton. So give them 4000 max magicka while youre at.
Yeah, they had the bigger Magicka multiplier (every game they had more) but that always got compensated by giving them this weakness.
Same thing here: you got both extra Magicka and Spell Damage, Bretons only have one. Hence why ZOS decided to give the Altmer a "weakness" to compensate.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's weird that their passives got changed like that and I'm just trying to assume why Altmer got those changes. But maybe it's not too far off the lore?"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!Edited by Galarthor on February 7, 2019 10:53PM11 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos8 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
It's comical watching people who don't know anything about the lore (they can't cite a single reputable source) argue that Altmer are a hybrid race.
Maybe we should ask in /r/teslore, but the folks in here will say they are wrong too.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 7, 2019 11:24PM5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Gimme sec, gonna find the morrowind book that specified how number of passives in 2E affected magicka affnity :P
Let's agree to disagree at this point. It just doesn't make any sense to continue the discussion. We have opposing views but apparently the negative performance impact of this stamina component is minimal. So from a balance point of view it doesn't really matter and going back and forth on what's appropriate for High-Elves lore-wise is not really productive :P
See thats the only way to end the discussion. Because understanding lore is subjective and it was written from subjective point of view (of real world authors and subjective view of NPCs they were imitating). So as in your subjective view best magicka race must have most magicka racials, in someone else's view it means having most DPS. And in my view it means casting the strongest spells... which they do since they have the highest raw strength.
So yes, agree to disagree
They don't cast the strongest spells though.1 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Gimme sec, gonna find the morrowind book that specified how number of passives in 2E affected magicka affnity :P
Let's agree to disagree at this point. It just doesn't make any sense to continue the discussion. We have opposing views but apparently the negative performance impact of this stamina component is minimal. So from a balance point of view it doesn't really matter and going back and forth on what's appropriate for High-Elves lore-wise is not really productive :P
See thats the only way to end the discussion. Because understanding lore is subjective and it was written from subjective point of view (of real world authors and subjective view of NPCs they were imitating). So as in your subjective view best magicka race must have most magicka racials, in someone else's view it means having most DPS. And in my view it means casting the strongest spells... which they do since they have the highest raw strength.
So yes, agree to disagree
They don't cast the strongest spells though.
False. Altmer has the highest static Magicka damage, and burst in the game. They lack sustain, which allows Breton to compete in extended content.2 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
It's comical watching people who don't know anything about the lore (they can't cite a single reputable source) argue that Altmer are a hybrid race.
Maybe we should ask in /r/teslore, but the folks in here will say they are wrong too.
If literally everyone in the world but you is wrong...EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade7 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
It's comical watching people who don't know anything about the lore (they can't cite a single reputable source) argue that Altmer are a hybrid race.
Maybe we should ask in /r/teslore, but the folks in here will say they are wrong too.
If literally everyone in the world but you is wrong...
Spare me.
Bring forth evidence for Bretons being the superior mage's. I am not interested in your angry accusations.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos4 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭
I am not interested in your angry accusations.validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
It's comical watching people who don't know anything about the lore (they can't cite a single reputable source) argue that Altmer are a hybrid race.
Maybe we should ask in /r/teslore, but the folks in here will say they are wrong too.
If literally everyone in the world but you is wrong...
You guys seem to be the angry ones to me, but that's just one man's observation.4 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I am not interested in your angry accusations.validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I offered to end it, but you wanted to continue!
Skyrim:
Altmer
+ 50 Magicka
+ 10 Illusion
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Destruction
+ 5 Enchanting
+ 5 Restoration
+ Faster Magicka Regeneration (Highborn)
Breton
+ 25% Magic Resist
+ 10 Conjuration
+ 5 Alchemy
+ 5 Alteration
+ 5 Restoration
+ 5 Speech
+ Spell Absorbtion (Dragonskin)
Altmer = All magic
Breton = Mostly magic + Speech + Alchemy
In-game description (Skyrim, the most recent Elder Scrolls game that is not limited by MMO balancing concerns)
"high elves are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races."
I am out!
You can let it rest.
If anyone claims that Altmer are not the most gifted in magic, lore wise, they have no idea. And using Battlespire as a reference, this has to be a joke.
Bretons are halfbloods between the Aldmer and the savage nedic, primal humans. It is only thanks to the powerful Aldmeri blood, that Bretons are gifted this way. Their blood is impure, while the Altmer still possess the primal aldmeri power. So if even a halfblood is good with magic, how strong will a pureblood be ?
There is litereally not a single indicator that Bretons could keep up with Altmer when it comes to magical affinity.
It's comical watching people who don't know anything about the lore (they can't cite a single reputable source) argue that Altmer are a hybrid race.
Maybe we should ask in /r/teslore, but the folks in here will say they are wrong too.
If literally everyone in the world but you is wrong...
You guys seem to be the angry ones to me, but that's just one man's observation.
I'm not angry at all. I'm just soft roleplaying.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@MLGProPlayer , well, thing is, there is a discrepancy between "known for" and "are on average". Yes, altmers are famed for magic (and Canadians for hockey), but stereotype of an altmers in the eyes of other races is not the measurement of the sum of their qualities. When someone tries to paint a person with the only description of "has a big nose", then what comes out is a caricature - huge nose and nothing else. On its face, thalmor are warriors too. Plenty of them around, running with swords and even drilling poor students in swordsmanship in Auridon. I think that having some stamina sustain reflects that.
This is why the old passive was perfect. It did not break the lore, but had the potential to deliver both.
The current passive is insulting and useless for most people who would pick Altmer, for most situations.
For the sake of argument when you refer to the "old passive" I am going to assume you mean the 2 week old passive vs the 5 year old passives we currently have on live.
Think is, if I have looked at all Zos has presented us over the past few weeks concerning the passive changes correctly it seems High Elf has more constant damage stats for magicka damage builds than an other race even though the title to this thread falsely stats otherwise.
While I think the change Zos made this week is rather odd, I can see the issue around balance. However, I can see the old passive putting High Elf way over the top having both the highest constant base damage passives along with good sustain.
As it is I see a solid choice each of us has to make, primarily between High Elf (for damage) and Bretton (for sustain) tossed in with some worthy mentions of Dunmer and Khajiit for worthy choices.
Actual test information helps clear the hype away and this thread seems to be created by hype. Thx to @susmitds and their crew for actually testing the changes
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457935/stamina-magicka-raid-warhorn-dps-solo-sustain-dps-tests-graphs-with-cp-stat-boost-correction-4-3-2/p1
4 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Gimme sec, gonna find the morrowind book that specified how number of passives in 2E affected magicka affnity :P
Let's agree to disagree at this point. It just doesn't make any sense to continue the discussion. We have opposing views but apparently the negative performance impact of this stamina component is minimal. So from a balance point of view it doesn't really matter and going back and forth on what's appropriate for High-Elves lore-wise is not really productive :P
See thats the only way to end the discussion. Because understanding lore is subjective and it was written from subjective point of view (of real world authors and subjective view of NPCs they were imitating). So as in your subjective view best magicka race must have most magicka racials, in someone else's view it means having most DPS. And in my view it means casting the strongest spells... which they do since they have the highest raw strength.
So yes, agree to disagree
They don't cast the strongest spells though.
But they objectively do. They have the most raw magicka power out of all races currently.2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@MLGProPlayer , well, thing is, there is a discrepancy between "known for" and "are on average". Yes, altmers are famed for magic (and Canadians for hockey), but stereotype of an altmers in the eyes of other races is not the measurement of the sum of their qualities. When someone tries to paint a person with the only description of "has a big nose", then what comes out is a caricature - huge nose and nothing else. On its face, thalmor are warriors too. Plenty of them around, running with swords and even drilling poor students in swordsmanship in Auridon. I think that having some stamina sustain reflects that.
This is why the old passive was perfect. It did not break the lore, but had the potential to deliver both.
The current passive is insulting and useless for most people who would pick Altmer, for most situations.
For the sake of argument when you refer to the "old passive" I am going to assume you mean the 2 week old passive vs the 5 year old passives we currently have on live.
Think is, if I have looked at all Zos has presented us over the past few weeks concerning the passive changes correctly it seems High Elf has more constant damage stats for magicka damage builds than an other race even though the title to this thread falsely stats otherwise.
While I think the change Zos made this week is rather odd, I can see the issue around balance. However, I can see the old passive putting High Elf way over the top having both the highest constant base damage passives along with good sustain.
As it is I see a solid choice each of us has to make, primarily between High Elf (for damage) and Bretton (for sustain) tossed in with some worthy mentions of Dunmer and Khajiit for worthy choices.
Actual test information helps clear the hype away and this thread seems to be created by hype. Thx to @susmitds and their crew for actually testing the changes
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457935/stamina-magicka-raid-warhorn-dps-solo-sustain-dps-tests-graphs-with-cp-stat-boost-correction-4-3-2/p1
Sorry.
I meant the previous pts passive. So the one that restored magicka every 6 seconds. Since the live version is off the table at this point, I only talked about old pts and new pts.
I still think Altmer should have been given something different. Stamina regen makes little sense and doesn't appeal to most Altmer players. I stick with what I am saying since days: Altmer should have been given more ressource return on heavy attacks.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why are you even comparing the starting skill levels of old TES games? This has nothing to do with Spellcharge. Those skill levels were just a small starter gift and made irrelevant after five minutes of training desired skills. The ESO equivalent to that are the bonus skill progression racials. You know, the ones irrelevant after five hours of gameplay, similar to TES. So destro staff proficiency for High Elves, light armor for Bretons.
A permanent key racial is being discussed here, and that's the TES max magicka bonus.
It's simple, really. Altmer are the magical damage race, which includes dps. Bretons are the magical tank race. They have more resistance to magical damage, and you could expand on that for ESO needs. The problem is that ZOS haven't been able to design a true magicka tank, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.2 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moloch1514 wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »I suggest you go Elsweyr for your explanations.
It's sad that the marketing team is dictating balance, but that's ZO$.
This. I've been preaching for 2+ years that ZOS Marketing is in charge of this ship.
ZOS needs some rogue employees that won't listen to the likes of them.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@MLGProPlayer , well, thing is, there is a discrepancy between "known for" and "are on average". Yes, altmers are famed for magic (and Canadians for hockey), but stereotype of an altmers in the eyes of other races is not the measurement of the sum of their qualities. When someone tries to paint a person with the only description of "has a big nose", then what comes out is a caricature - huge nose and nothing else. On its face, thalmor are warriors too. Plenty of them around, running with swords and even drilling poor students in swordsmanship in Auridon. I think that having some stamina sustain reflects that.
This is why the old passive was perfect. It did not break the lore, but had the potential to deliver both.
The current passive is insulting and useless for most people who would pick Altmer, for most situations.
For the sake of argument when you refer to the "old passive" I am going to assume you mean the 2 week old passive vs the 5 year old passives we currently have on live.
Think is, if I have looked at all Zos has presented us over the past few weeks concerning the passive changes correctly it seems High Elf has more constant damage stats for magicka damage builds than an other race even though the title to this thread falsely stats otherwise.
While I think the change Zos made this week is rather odd, I can see the issue around balance. However, I can see the old passive putting High Elf way over the top having both the highest constant base damage passives along with good sustain.
As it is I see a solid choice each of us has to make, primarily between High Elf (for damage) and Bretton (for sustain) tossed in with some worthy mentions of Dunmer and Khajiit for worthy choices.
Actual test information helps clear the hype away and this thread seems to be created by hype. Thx to @susmitds and their crew for actually testing the changes
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457935/stamina-magicka-raid-warhorn-dps-solo-sustain-dps-tests-graphs-with-cp-stat-boost-correction-4-3-2/p1
The old spellcharge passive wouldn't impact their raid-buffed parse at all since they aren't running out of magicka there regardless. Also, they are only up on Breton by 0.3% in raid-buffed teting (~182 more DPS).
On the other hand, their non-raid buffed DPS is 1.4% lower than Breton (~727 DPS less). It's this latter DPS that would be improved by giving them the old passive back.
I'd bet crowns that if they reverted the nerf, we'd see like a 0.3% +/- gap in both tests, instead of what we have now.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It should also be noted that Altmer is the highest DPS only with the Shadow mundus and only by 0.2-0.3%. With any other mundus, they are at the bottom. So if Shadow gets nerfed (which is extremely possible), they drop down again.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 12:41PM3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@MLGProPlayer , for one, the situation seems balanced (orc overshoots a bit on stamina side, but even then, not by much), so not sure why would they nerf Shadow. For another, if I understand it right, the tests @susmitds made so far simply use green food to imitate higher stat pool (which will make to PTS on Monday), so it's a flat buff; actual Monday change will push altmer and breton (and orc) a bit further ahead because it'll be not a flat buff, but a percentage-based (so altmer's and breton's 2k magicka will scale to bigger total bonus than khajiit's 0.825k).1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@MLGProPlayer , for one, the situation seems balanced (orc overshoots a bit on stamina side, but even then, not by much), so not sure why would they nerf Shadow. For another, if I understand it right, the tests @susmitds made so far simply use green food to imitate higher stat pool (which will make to PTS on Monday), so it's a flat buff; actual Monday change will push altmer and breton (and orc) a bit further ahead because it'll be not a flat buff, but a percentage-based (so altmer's and breton's 2k magicka will scale to bigger total bonus than khajiit's 0.825k).
Shadow will get nerfed if it looks like it will become the new undisputed BiS mundus stone, which it's on track for right now.0 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭I dont see Shadow being nerfed. Nerf Shadow and khajiit is out of the picture in the stam side of DPS for stamblades. Now think, where khajiit will go for other non-crit classes0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.
The problem is: try yourself, Altmer with absorb magicka glyph and then Breton with berserker glyph. Dps difference is negligible but sustain difference is pretty noticeable, being much better on Breton. This is especially true for classes that have small in-built sustain like magsorc. No reason to pick Altmer.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 8, 2019 12:55PM4 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@MLGProPlayer , don't see that happening; parses show that Shadow isn't overperforming (see difference between Shadow and non-Shadow parses - barely 0.5k dps), bretons actually performed equally with different stones, and orc benefits by ~0.3k dps from not running Shadow. And it's only nightblades - think of classes without crit bonuses, there it'll perform even lower (speaking of that, I'm very curious how far khajiits will drop on classes without crit bonuses). So far, everything is within spitting distance from one another.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »
Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.
The problem is: try yourself, Altmer with absorb magicka glyph and then Breton with berserker glyph. Dps difference is negligible but sustain difference is pretty noticeable, being much better on Breton. This is especially true for classes that have small in-built sustain like magsorc. No reason to pick Altmer.
I have to admit I am also slightly worried about PvP, b/c the magicka consumption tends to be higher there. But Bretons 3% cost reduction translates into roughly 600 to 700 Magicka Regen. Add to that the 100 Magicka Regen from the other passive and you will have 700 to 800 Magicka Regen. -> Bretons got about 5.5 Set Bonuses worth of racial passives in magicka regen & equivalents alone.
Altmers on the other hand got 258 Spell Damage and roughly 200 Stam Regen. -> Altmers got about 3.5 Set Bonuses.
The 2000 Max Magicka doesn't matter because both have races have it.
The 5% damage reduction is pretty much a templar-only thing. And the 2.3k to 4.6k spell resi pretty much beats it in almost every scenario. The difference in these 2 passives will never show on any parses.
So Bretons are 2 Set Bonuses ahead of Altmers - even more if you include those defensive passives that don't show in parses!6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »
Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.
The problem is: try yourself, Altmer with absorb magicka glyph and then Breton with berserker glyph. Dps difference is negligible but sustain difference is pretty noticeable, being much better on Breton. This is especially true for classes that have small in-built sustain like magsorc. No reason to pick Altmer.
I have to admit I am also slightly worried about PvP, b/c the magicka consumption tends to be higher there. But Bretons 3% cost reduction translates into roughly 600 to 700 Magicka Regen. Add to that the 100 Magicka Regen from the other passive and you will have 700 to 800 Magicka Regen. -> Bretons got about 5.5 Set Bonuses worth of racial passives in magicka regen & equivalents alone.
Altmers on the other hand got 258 Spell Damage and roughly 200 Stam Regen. -> Altmers got about 3.5 Set Bonuses.
The 2000 Max Magicka doesn't matter because both have races have it.
The 5% damage reduction is pretty much a templar-only thing. And the 2.3k to 4.6k spell resi pretty much beats it in almost every scenario. The difference in these 2 passives will never show on any parses.
So Bretons are 2 Set Bonuses ahead of Altmers - even more if you include those defensive passives that don't show in parses!
That's the problem. Even with the old passive, Breton still had a better kit. These Altmer nerfs have to be one of the most dumbfounding nerfs I've ever seen in a video game.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 1:49PM4