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Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
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Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭notimetocare wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Even before today's massive nerfs to Altmer, Altmer were the third highest magicka DPS race, but at least they were competitive. They are no longer competitive. Dunmer were never competitive and today's small buffs don't help.
What does the lore say about Khajiit and Breton being the top magicka DPS? With rumours that Lawrence Schick is leaving, it seems ZOS is already throwing lore out the window.
Also, Altmer are now a hybrid race. I'm pretty sure the lore doesn't support this either.
What are you talking about... every race is viable now for every roll. 3-4k dps difference between the best and worst race at 60k parses is negligible. Quit fearmongering
It's actually a 5% to 7% difference in DPS, that is significant.4 -
dave_harter_ESO✭✭✭A 5% - 7% difference is fairly significant. Altmer going from third best on the previous pts to garbage for pve really blows. They are disregarding lore in altmer and dummer magika are the worst magika races as well. I cannot state how poorly thought out these changes are.5
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validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭dave_harter_ESO wrote: »A 5% - 7% difference is fairly significant. Altmer going from third best on the previous pts to garbage for pve really blows. They are disregarding lore in altmer and dummer magika are the worst magika races as well. I cannot state how poorly thought out these changes are.
Can you point to a source for this apparent 5-7% damage difference? Haven't seen any test results on the forum for 4.3.2 yet.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade4 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dave_harter_ESO wrote: »A 5% - 7% difference is fairly significant. Altmer going from third best on the previous pts to garbage for pve really blows. They are disregarding lore in altmer and dummer magika are the worst magika races as well. I cannot state how poorly thought out these changes are.
Y'all are out of your minds. Seriously.
Garbage? What a load of hyperbolic horse dookie.
Stop overreacting to patch notes and actually test something for once.
Altmer, Breton, and Dunmer are all within 1% of each other. It's honestly almost impossible to tell a meaningful difference in DPS between these three races given a significant sample of tests. Khajiit may be a bit ahead of them depending on class and configuration.
And honestly it's hilarious that people are screaming about how Orcs are going to be OP DPS when they have the exact same damage bonuses as Altmer and zero sustain bonuses. Oy vey.Edited by LiquidPony on February 7, 2019 7:13PM6 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.
The only thing I find curious is that he is comparing Shadow Alter + Shadow Khajit with Bretons, not Shadow Bretons. It's probably b/c Breton did better than Shadow Breton in Test 1, but some clarification would have been nice.
Nonetheless, I'd still prefer a mathematical approach like the one originally intended by ZOS, where you can get the same total numbers for any metric / stat on all relevant races by simply adjusting the gear to complement your racials, since your racials are a fixed multiple of the set bonuses. It makes the whole thing far more transparent and easier to adjust and to adapt.Edited by Galarthor on February 7, 2019 8:15PM1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Altmer with Shadow Mundus being ahead of Khajiit Shadow ?
I am cautiously asking myself, if this could be slightly.... faked to please an agenda ? The person who made this is obviously not fond of Altmer according to previous comments. So it would be realistic that he wants them to stay in the mud.
Base Khajiit is ahead of Altmer, why would shadow Khajiit be beind Altmer with the shadow mundus ? Khajiit has so much crit, that he would be pushed by this even further. So this test is obviously fake, or he took the highest Altmer parse and the lowest Khajiit parse possible.Edited by Dracane on February 7, 2019 8:23PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos4 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭
Altmer with Shadow Mundus being ahead of Khajiit Shadow ?
I am cautiously asking myself, if this could be slightly.... faked to please an agenda ? The person who made this is obviously not fond of Altmer according to previous comments. So it would be realistic that he wants them to stay in the mud.
Base Khajiit is ahead of Altmer, why would base Khajiit be beind Altmer with the shadow mundus ? Khajiit has so much crit, that he would be pushed by this even further. So this test is obviously fake, or he took the highest Altmer parse and the lowest Khajiit parse possible.
call the Illuminati, lizard man spotted by high elf agent.
Yeah, that is why Khajiit got four times past the 64K range total while Altmer did not go beyond that once with two Mundus to boot.
you probably don't realize the fact that higher the base damage due to Spell damage and magicka, their higher final crit value will be.Edited by nsmurfer on February 7, 2019 8:32PM5 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Altmer with Shadow Mundus being ahead of Khajiit Shadow ?
I am cautiously asking myself, if this could be slightly.... faked to please an agenda ? The person who made this is obviously not fond of Altmer according to previous comments. So it would be realistic that he wants them to stay in the mud.
Base Khajiit is ahead of Altmer, why would base Khajiit be beind Altmer with the shadow mundus ? Khajiit has so much crit, that he would be pushed by this even further. So this test is obviously fake, or he took the highest Altmer parse and the lowest Khajiit parse possible.
call the Illuminati, lizard man spotted by high elf agent
It's logical, is it not ? Someone with 8% crit, who already is ahead without 19% crit damage, will definately be far ahead WITH those 19% crit damage as opposed to someone without 8% crit.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos3 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Dracane it's a fair point.
For low crit chances it could be explained by the lower base damage of Khajiits. Not sure if 8% is sufficiently low though to be outperformed by 258 spell damage, despite crit bonus damage being increased by 13%. If we had the actual damage numbers, the DPS contribution of 258 spell damage, we could calculate it.
0 -
Blacknight841✭✭✭✭✭To be clear there is only one reason they are being nerfed, and it has nothing to do with lore. The only reason they are making changes is because they want you to buy the race change tokens. If this is not the case they would provide you with a race change token for all characters, and make that one race change character bound so you cannot just make characters and collect the tokens. The simple craft that they were only going to give one race change token and now they are still only giving three of them shows that they are hoping you will buy the remaining 12 of them for your characters. At 3000 crowns a piece, it would cost about 260$ to change the race of all your characters.1
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Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Altmer with Shadow Mundus being ahead of Khajiit Shadow ?
I am cautiously asking myself, if this could be slightly.... faked to please an agenda ? The person who made this is obviously not fond of Altmer according to previous comments. So it would be realistic that he wants them to stay in the mud.
Base Khajiit is ahead of Altmer, why would base Khajiit be beind Altmer with the shadow mundus ? Khajiit has so much crit, that he would be pushed by this even further. So this test is obviously fake, or he took the highest Altmer parse and the lowest Khajiit parse possible.
call the Illuminati, lizard man spotted by high elf agent
It's logical, is it not ? Someone with 8% crit, who already is ahead without 19% crit damage, will definately be far ahead WITH those 19% crit damage as opposed to someone without 8% crit.
Well, in the "shadow" case the crit chance of both Altmer and Khajiit are reduced by roughly 10%, which means they will both have less access to the 60% (or more) crit multiplier. The question now is whether the combination of higher crit chance in this higher crit damage scenario yields more damage than 258 spell damage. It's quite possible, though I don't know the exact amount of DPS 258 spell damage are equivalent to in this performance analysis.0 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭
Altmer with Shadow Mundus being ahead of Khajiit Shadow ?
I am cautiously asking myself, if this could be slightly.... faked to please an agenda ? The person who made this is obviously not fond of Altmer according to previous comments. So it would be realistic that he wants them to stay in the mud.
Base Khajiit is ahead of Altmer, why would base Khajiit be beind Altmer with the shadow mundus ? Khajiit has so much crit, that he would be pushed by this even further. So this test is obviously fake, or he took the highest Altmer parse and the lowest Khajiit parse possible.
call the Illuminati, lizard man spotted by high elf agent
It's logical, is it not ? Someone with 8% crit, who already is ahead without 19% crit damage, will definately be far ahead WITH those 19% crit damage as opposed to someone without 8% crit.
For altmer, 254 spell damage will be buffed to 400 around. 2000 magicka will be buffed to 3K magicka with Cp, warhorn, undaunted, mages guild, siphoning etc.
for khajiit, 825 magicka becomes 1200 magicka. altmer excess magicka is around 1.8k. that is like total 400+180 effective spell damage or 580 total spell damage.
Mother's sorrow is 9% spell critical without any conditions. Spell strategist is 500 spell damage with conditions and down time.
anybody pveing nowadays knows Spell strategist is significantly better than mother's sorrow for DPS parses.
So now tell me if 500 Spell Damage with downtime beats 9% spell crit for PvE DPS, why won't 580 spell damage won't beat 8% crit for pve DPS.
You very subjectively ignored the fact that higher base damage from higher raw stats will lead to even higher crit damages when using Shadow, so it is not like only spell crit affects shadow.5 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Altmer with Shadow Mundus being ahead of Khajiit Shadow ?
I am cautiously asking myself, if this could be slightly.... faked to please an agenda ? The person who made this is obviously not fond of Altmer according to previous comments. So it would be realistic that he wants them to stay in the mud.
Base Khajiit is ahead of Altmer, why would base Khajiit be beind Altmer with the shadow mundus ? Khajiit has so much crit, that he would be pushed by this even further. So this test is obviously fake, or he took the highest Altmer parse and the lowest Khajiit parse possible.
call the Illuminati, lizard man spotted by high elf agent
It's logical, is it not ? Someone with 8% crit, who already is ahead without 19% crit damage, will definately be far ahead WITH those 19% crit damage as opposed to someone without 8% crit.
It's a tiny difference.
Do the math.
Take a non-Khajiit with 60% spell crit and 90% crit damage modifier, the damage increase of The Shadow is:
1 + ((0.19825 * 0.6) / (1 + 0.6 * 0.9)) = 7.72%
Take a Khajiit with 68% spell crit and 90% crit damage modifier:
1 + ((0.19825 * 0.68) / (1 + 0.68 * 0.9)) = 8.36%
That assumes 7 Legendary Divines pieces which may or may not be optimal. With 4 Divines/3 Infused the values are 6.58% and 7.13%, respectively.
So Khajiit theoretically will see a damage increase that is about 0.64% greater than other races. Given a parse with 50,000 worth of critable DPS, that's a difference of .... 320 DPS. Which is legitimately almost impossible to separate from error and noise. This is not even considering the fact that other races like Altmer and Dunmer will have higher base damage to multiply by crit modifiers to begin with.Edited by LiquidPony on February 7, 2019 8:58PM5 -
Ogou✭✭✭✭✭Blacknight841 wrote: »To be clear there is only one reason they are being nerfed, and it has nothing to do with lore. The only reason they are making changes is because they want you to buy the race change tokens. If this is not the case they would provide you with a race change token for all characters, and make that one race change character bound so you cannot just make characters and collect the tokens. The simple craft that they were only going to give one race change token and now they are still only giving three of them shows that they are hoping you will buy the remaining 12 of them for your characters. At 3000 crowns a piece, it would cost about 260$ to change the race of all your characters.
That tin foil hat theory assumes that a lot of people have ~15 characters and that most of those people are going to change the race of all of their characters for some reason. Neither of those things seem true to me.4 -
sage2000✭✭✭Guess which race got highest raid DPS.
True in that one case, but lets not cherry pick here. Without Shadow mundus they got second to last. In "true resource potential" (more relevant to me personally as it's more germane to PvP performance, which is my main concern) they come in third place.
That said, all the results are very close, which is good enough for me. From a gameplay perspective anyway. From a lore perspective it's a bit odd to have Khajiit be able to compete with the traditional magicka races, but whatever, at least the people who rolled kitty mages will be more viable than they were.
All that said, these tests were done on the class that has the easiest time with sustain, and even then Breton made a very strong showing. It will be interesting to see how much the results might vary on other classes.1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The conspiracy theories in this thread are hilarious.
* Zenimax wants to sell race change tokens!
* Zenimax wants to sell Adventure Packages!
* The guy who provided the DPS tests hates Altmer and has an agenda against them
* Zenimax is deliberately destroying the lore!
It's ridiculous.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -10 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »The conspiracy theories in this thread are hilarious.
* Zenimax wants to sell race change tokens!
* Zenimax wants to sell Adventure Packages!
* The guy who provided the DPS tests hates Altmer and has an agenda against them
* Zenimax is deliberately destroying the lore!
It's ridiculous.
1) + 2) ZOS wouldn't be a good company from an business point of view if it didn't. And I am pretty sure they want to maximize their sales. So this is definitely not a conspiracy theory.
3) dunno, didn't do the testing myself, so I can't really comment. But the testing seems pretty legit.
4) It's lore breaking. Givng stamina attribute to a pure magicka race simply is. I don't think they do it to f*ck up the lore though.Edited by Galarthor on February 7, 2019 9:37PM2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth onePS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.1 -
sage2000✭✭✭
Altmer with Shadow Mundus being ahead of Khajiit Shadow ?
I am cautiously asking myself, if this could be slightly.... faked to please an agenda ? The person who made this is obviously not fond of Altmer according to previous comments. So it would be realistic that he wants them to stay in the mud.
Base Khajiit is ahead of Altmer, why would shadow Khajiit be beind Altmer with the shadow mundus ? Khajiit has so much crit, that he would be pushed by this even further. So this test is obviously fake, or he took the highest Altmer parse and the lowest Khajiit parse possible.
The testing seems pretty straightforward and transparent. I don't think it's fair or appropriate to make unfounded suggestions that he fudged the data.Edited by sage2000 on February 7, 2019 10:07PM2 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Gimme sec, gonna find the morrowind book that specified how number of passives in 2E affected magicka affnity :P2 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
While you're at it, can you also find the passage in the lore that says "Argonians shall not wield shield and sword in trials" and also "Every race shall have exactly the same performance in endgame PvE in the upcoming MMO version of our franchise"? Thank you.Gimme sec, gonna find the morrowind book that specified how number of passives in 2E affected magicka affnity :P5 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Gimme sec, gonna find the morrowind book that specified how number of passives in 2E affected magicka affnity :P
Let's agree to disagree at this point. It just doesn't make any sense to continue the discussion. We have opposing views but apparently the negative performance impact of this stamina component is minimal. So from a balance point of view it doesn't really matter and going back and forth on what's appropriate for High-Elves lore-wise is not really productive :P1 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't you like, your lore friendly best mage race, getting outmatched by a kitty?I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
While you're at it, can you also find the passage in the lore that says "Argonians shall not wield shield and sword in trials" and also "Every race shall have exactly the same performance in endgame PvE in the upcoming MMO version of our franchise"? Thank you.Gimme sec, gonna find the morrowind book that specified how number of passives in 2E affected magicka affnity :P
I will try, but currently busy looking for the biological paper that searched bosmer dna to find the sneaking gene which they obviously have since they... have more thieves than other races?5 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Morrowind attributes (taking averages of male and female, ignoring Personality, Luck, and Speed [speed is the same for both anyway]):
Altmer
Strength: 30
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 40
Agility: 40
Endurance: 35
Breton
Strength: 35
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 50
Agility: 30
Endurance: 30
Battlespire modifiers:
Altmer
+10 Long Blade
+10 Short Blade
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
+5 Mysticism
+5 Illusion
Breton
+10 Destruction
+10 Mysticism
+10 Illusion
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
BuT MUh LoRE is mostly just a poor excuse for people to complain about their Altmer characters getting changed.4 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@grannas211 , I specifically included "when combat passives are concerned", not sure why you chose to omit that part and still mention health, health return and reduced cost speed. We're speaking PvE damage parses, comparing combat related passives.
Because I'm speaking in general. You cant compare them. Racial passives at this moment are not balanced across the board. And yes 1000 health would be helpful in pve over 0 health.
You're the only one speaking in general, that's the thing. We're comparing damage potential, all other things equal. And with new changes to CP scaling, altmers would be sitting at comfortable levels of health even running regen food and won't have to trade max stat (and with raid support most will be running blue food buffed by 20% now, which makes max health a non-issue). So no, it's a mistake going into comparisons between non-combat stats of orc and altmer - both because this thread is concerned with damage, and because if you do, then I'll start recounting all those places in PvE where it's crucial for magicka to be topped off on stamina to be mobile, break free from snares and what have you.LiquidPony wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?Seraphayel wrote: »1 + 2: that's why they give you 3 race and 3 name change tokens; and that's why most of the changes are totally negligible and don't change anything in reality besides achieving a better racial balance than ever before
4: Altmer are not pure Magicka. They might be the top Magicka race but - as was pointed out already - they had physical attributes as well in previous games; furthermore they already have 3 "caster" passives, they didn't need a fourth one
They gave away 3 after the huge outcry and them realizing that the loss of customers would weigh greater than the additional sales in race change tokens. Don't get me wrong, I may not like ZOS basing balancing decisions on sales considerations, but I can't blame them since they are a company and want to make profit.
Altmer may have other attributes, but they are still the purest magicka race. Therefore, if any of the race should have magicka only passives it is Altmers - not the hybrid race Bretons. I hope you do realize, I argue against the stamina on the Altmer, even though I, as a PVP player, very much profit from it.
Purest magicka race? Which lore part implies that and more importantly, where in the lore it is mentioned that high elves lost any 'stamina affinity' genes which seem to be awfully well rooted in any other Mer. Using lore as reasoning is all so silly. All the lore we know are thing said, something being unsaid never implies it doesnt exist.
Where does it say that Bretons are more magic-affine than Altmers? and why should Bretons as a hybrid race have less stamina affinity than Altmers?
Morrowind attributes (taking averages of male and female, ignoring Personality, Luck, and Speed [speed is the same for both anyway]):
Altmer
Strength: 30
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 40
Agility: 40
Endurance: 35
Breton
Strength: 35
Intelligence: 50
Willpower: 50
Agility: 30
Endurance: 30
Battlespire modifiers:
Altmer
+10 Long Blade
+10 Short Blade
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
+5 Mysticism
+5 Illusion
Breton
+10 Destruction
+10 Mysticism
+10 Illusion
+5 Alteration
+5 Thaumaturgy
+5 Restoration
BuT MUh LoRE is mostly just a poor excuse for people to complain about their Altmer characters getting changed.
look at the Plus to Max Magicka across the games. High Elf is always double.2