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Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
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validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
Somehow all elven races are trash now. Maybe Wrobel was the genius in the team who prevented the worst...
It appears so. Wheeler has only been the lead for 2 weeks now and the game is already headed in the wrong direction.18 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 5, 2019 11:09PM14 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Altmer should at least be better than Breton in anything lol. It looks like it's just worse in everything now. Same as Dunmers.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.8 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade3 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Well they should be flat out better for damage according to the developer comments. Breton is flat is better for sustain no?1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?
Breton has the same 2000 magicka. No?
So?
The comment I was referring to said that "[Altmer] just got hit with nerfs".
Altmer should actually hit slightly harder after these changes. Most of the other races will hit slightly harder as well.
Was Spell Recharge really relevant in a PvE context? If people were able to sustain Dunmer parses, they should be able to do the same on Altmer, no?3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?
Breton has the same 2000 magicka. No?
So?
The comment I was referring to said that "[Altmer] just got hit with nerfs".
Altmer should actually hit slightly harder after these changes. Most of the other races will hit slightly harder as well.
Was Spell Recharge really relevant in a PvE context? If people were able to sustain Dunmer parses, they should be able to do the same on Altmer, no?
The question isn't "can they sustain their rotations now". They were nerfed while not overperforming. That is the fundamental problem. They objectively got even weaker than they already were.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 5, 2019 11:17PM14 -
JPcrazysquirrel3✭✭✭✭Wheeler is actually Ysgramor?
Edited for name accuracy.Edited by JPcrazysquirrel3 on February 5, 2019 11:20PM"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
"It's just not a home until you decorate the torture chamber, am I right?"
"If you want to lose 10lbs of ugly fat, I'd be happy to chop your head off!"
"Degenerates!" --- Todd Howard
"If it's not broke, don't fix it,....unless you're ZO$ and are just doing it for the money!" --- MeClass reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bio:
I am in a Kevduit videoPS4 (main platform)
--- JP_Dovahkriid
PC (just for PTS since Dragon Bones)
--- JP_Dovahkriid
Playing since console release in 2015
17 characters; mainly play PvE tanks and healer, as well as PvP stamDK, magplar, and stamblade; I also have a handful of DPS toons to have variety. All AD, with one, now PvE, DC toon.
I was on the forums before, but something happened with my account info and I had to create a new account.5 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?
Breton has the same 2000 magicka. No?
So?
The comment I was referring to said that "[Altmer] just got hit with nerfs".
Altmer should actually hit slightly harder after these changes. Most of the other races will hit slightly harder as well.
Was Spell Recharge really relevant in a PvE context? If people were able to sustain Dunmer parses, they should be able to do the same on Altmer, no?
The question isn't "can they sustain their rotations now". They were nerfed while not overperforming. That is the fundamental problem. They objectively got even weaker than they already were.
The question absolutely is whether or not they can sustain without Spell Recharge granting magicka. If they can, v4.3.2 is a buff, because they gained Max Magicka and the loss of sustain doesn't actually change anything.
Many people sustain Dunmer magicka DPS on live without any problems, and they have no sustain passives at all, right?1 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?
Breton has the same 2000 magicka. No?
So?
The comment I was referring to said that "[Altmer] just got hit with nerfs".
Altmer should actually hit slightly harder after these changes. Most of the other races will hit slightly harder as well.
Was Spell Recharge really relevant in a PvE context? If people were able to sustain Dunmer parses, they should be able to do the same on Altmer, no?
The question isn't "can they sustain their rotations now". They were nerfed while not overperforming. That is the fundamental problem. They objectively got even weaker than they already were.
Assuming sustain wasn't an issue for Dunmer, as LiquidPony pointed out, then this is not a nerf.
Meanwhile getting 400 more magica is most definitely a buff.
What is your point?EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here is some math on how Shadow will buff Khajiit while we wait for the PTS.
Testing may prove otherwise, but right now, it looks like Khajiit will be the runaway meta race for magicka DPS.
https://youtu.be/tUMbMYz5jjQ 4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?
Breton has the same 2000 magicka. No?
So?
The comment I was referring to said that "[Altmer] just got hit with nerfs".
Altmer should actually hit slightly harder after these changes. Most of the other races will hit slightly harder as well.
Was Spell Recharge really relevant in a PvE context? If people were able to sustain Dunmer parses, they should be able to do the same on Altmer, no?
The question isn't "can they sustain their rotations now". They were nerfed while not overperforming. That is the fundamental problem. They objectively got even weaker than they already were.
The question absolutely is whether or not they can sustain without Spell Recharge granting magicka. If they can, v4.3.2 is a buff, because they gained Max Magicka and the loss of sustain doesn't actually change anything.
Many people sustain Dunmer magicka DPS on live without any problems, and they have no sustain passives at all, right?
DPS is measured comparatively.1 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Here is some math on how Shadow will buff Khajiit while we wait for the PTS.
Testing may prove otherwise, but right now, it looks like Khajiit will be the runaway meta race for magicka DPS.https://youtu.be/tUMbMYz5jjQ
As I posted in another thread, the additional effects of the Khajiit crit chance with the shadow stone accounts for a 0.3% buff in total damage compared to all other races.
This also assumes that Khajiit get all of that 8% crit bonus, but as there is diminishing returns from stacking crit, the real value of the buff will be between 0.05-0.2%. ie stop complaining until you can test it.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade3 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I suggest you go Elsweyr for your explanations.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)11 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 5, 2019 11:29PM10 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »I suggest you go Elsweyr for your explanations.
It's sad that the marketing team is dictating balance, but that's ZO$.6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.Edited by idk on February 5, 2019 11:33PM0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade2 -
Moloch1514✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »I suggest you go Elsweyr for your explanations.
It's sad that the marketing team is dictating balance, but that's ZO$.
This. I've been preaching for 2+ years that ZOS Marketing is in charge of this ship.PC-NA6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
But there is a difference making your statement incorrect. Also, Bretton, iirc, is even lower. It is the sustain race.
Granted, I think the change made this week is very odd.
Breton has more spell damage with Bersekrer enchant.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 5, 2019 11:47PM6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
ZOS ignored all the test results that were provided by the public. Is that not concerning?15 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
ZOS ignored all the test results that were provided by the public. Is that not concerning?
They buffed all racials with stats tied to them, did a stealth rework for Bosmer, made Dunmer closer to Altmer for DPS, almost did a complete rework on orcs again, reworked red diamond and buffed argonians.
All major community concerns after testing. Not bad for a weeks work in my opinion.
Now we wait, sim the new changes, and then we come back here and discuss the results.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade8 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
ZOS ignored all the test results that were provided by the public. Is that not concerning?
They buffed all racials with stats tied to them, did a stealth rework for Bosmer, made Dunmer closer to Altmer for DPS, almost did a complete rework on orcs again, reworked red diamond and buffed argonians.
All major community concerns after testing. Not bad for a weeks work in my opinion.
Now we wait, sim the new changes, and then we come back here and discuss the results.
You seemed to ignore the Altmer nerf in your list. How convenient.19 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
ZOS ignored all the test results that were provided by the public. Is that not concerning?
They buffed all racials with stats tied to them, did a stealth rework for Bosmer, made Dunmer closer to Altmer for DPS, almost did a complete rework on orcs again, reworked red diamond and buffed argonians.
All major community concerns after testing. Not bad for a weeks work in my opinion.
Now we wait, sim the new changes, and then we come back here and discuss the results.
You seemed to ignore the Altmer nerf in your list. How convenient.
They had a major passive turned into a utility passive. To be more in line with many other racials from a DD perspective, who have 1 passive dedicated to utility or suitability. Dunmers fire resist + health + burning immunity, Bretons spell resistance, Khajiit health and health recovery.
You're pulling us in circles here. Im sorry but im done. You're right, Altmer where nerfed, but you're not correct about them being lowest magica DPS by a long shot. Id almost put money on them being second after Breton right now. And guess what. This is the test server. Dont like that bretons have more damage? Get the results, make your case, hope Zenni agrees.
You've brought up the Khajiit/Shadow buff without thinking about it, completely ignored the CP buff, disregarded the fact that Dunmer are lower magica dps and pretended like ZOS did nothing to appease any community concerns in the latest update. If you cant see that then I dont know what to say.Edited by validifyedneb18_ESO on February 6, 2019 12:04AMEU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade6 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wtf you all talking about, Altmer this and Dunmer that. What about Argonian, they are the absolute bottom. They only got 1k mag and supposed to be mag race too.3 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
ZOS ignored all the test results that were provided by the public. Is that not concerning?
They buffed all racials with stats tied to them, did a stealth rework for Bosmer, made Dunmer closer to Altmer for DPS, almost did a complete rework on orcs again, reworked red diamond and buffed argonians.
All major community concerns after testing. Not bad for a weeks work in my opinion.
Now we wait, sim the new changes, and then we come back here and discuss the results.
You seemed to ignore the Altmer nerf in your list. How convenient.
They had a major passive turned into a utility passive. To be more in line with many other racials from a DD perspective, who have 1 passive dedicated to utility or suitability. Dunmers fire resist + health + burning immunity, Bretons spell resistance, Khajiit health and health recovery.
You're pulling us in circles here. Im sorry but im done. You're right, Altmer where nerfed, but you're not correct about them being lowest magica DPS by a long shot. Id almost put money on them being second after Breton right now. And guess what. This is the test server. Dont like that bretons have more damage? Get the results, make your case, hope Zenni agrees.
You've brought up the Khajiit/Shadow buff without thinking about it, completely ignored the CP buff, disregarded the fact that Dunmer are lower magica dps and pretended like ZOS did nothing to appease any community concerns in the latest update. If you cant see that then I dont know what to say.
why should the damage race be second in damage behind the sustain race?19 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭grannas211 wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
ZOS ignored all the test results that were provided by the public. Is that not concerning?
They buffed all racials with stats tied to them, did a stealth rework for Bosmer, made Dunmer closer to Altmer for DPS, almost did a complete rework on orcs again, reworked red diamond and buffed argonians.
All major community concerns after testing. Not bad for a weeks work in my opinion.
Now we wait, sim the new changes, and then we come back here and discuss the results.
You seemed to ignore the Altmer nerf in your list. How convenient.
They had a major passive turned into a utility passive. To be more in line with many other racials from a DD perspective, who have 1 passive dedicated to utility or suitability. Dunmers fire resist + health + burning immunity, Bretons spell resistance, Khajiit health and health recovery.
You're pulling us in circles here. Im sorry but im done. You're right, Altmer where nerfed, but you're not correct about them being lowest magica DPS by a long shot. Id almost put money on them being second after Breton right now. And guess what. This is the test server. Dont like that bretons have more damage? Get the results, make your case, hope Zenni agrees.
You've brought up the Khajiit/Shadow buff without thinking about it, completely ignored the CP buff, disregarded the fact that Dunmer are lower magica dps and pretended like ZOS did nothing to appease any community concerns in the latest update. If you cant see that then I dont know what to say.
why should the damage race be second in damage behind the sustain race?
On paper they do have more damage. But as we have seen sustain makes up the difference.
Post your results, ZOS will make changes to fit. You can read the developer comments on all these changes, its not like they believe Breton should be top dps. How is this so hard to understand?EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
ZOS ignored all the test results that were provided by the public. Is that not concerning?
They buffed all racials with stats tied to them, did a stealth rework for Bosmer, made Dunmer closer to Altmer for DPS, almost did a complete rework on orcs again, reworked red diamond and buffed argonians.
All major community concerns after testing. Not bad for a weeks work in my opinion.
Now we wait, sim the new changes, and then we come back here and discuss the results.
You seemed to ignore the Altmer nerf in your list. How convenient.
They had a major passive turned into a utility passive. To be more in line with many other racials from a DD perspective, who have 1 passive dedicated to utility or suitability. Dunmers fire resist + health + burning immunity, Bretons spell resistance, Khajiit health and health recovery.
You're pulling us in circles here. Im sorry but im done. You're right, Altmer where nerfed, but you're not correct about them being lowest magica DPS by a long shot. Id almost put money on them being second after Breton right now. And guess what. This is the test server. Dont like that bretons have more damage? Get the results, make your case, hope Zenni agrees.
You've brought up the Khajiit/Shadow buff without thinking about it, completely ignored the CP buff, disregarded the fact that Dunmer are lower magica dps and pretended like ZOS did nothing to appease any community concerns in the latest update. If you cant see that then I dont know what to say.
why should the damage race be second in damage behind the sustain race?
On paper they do have more damage. But as we have seen sustain makes up the difference.
Post your results, ZOS will make changes to fit. You can read the developer comments on all these changes, its not like they believe Breton should be top dps. How is this so hard to understand?
But the results had already been shared and ZOS ignored them. How does one get ZOS to take notice of the testing being done on the public test server?12 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.
Right. And should breton be way lower than Altmer? They are/where the go to healer.
I hope your not suggesting that Altmer should just flat out be better than Breton in every way.
Breton were already better before Altmer got hit with nerfs. The nerfs only widened the gap.
Breton deal more damage and have more sustain than Altmer. I was fine with Altmer being a little bit behind. But to nerf them after they were already behind is beyond ridiculous.
Ok. Breton was one of the go-to magica races.
All 3 main magica races have been buffed significantly.
If it turns out there is an undesirably large performance delta between the Spell Damage or Altmer, and the Regen of Bretons in their ability to deal damage, then ZOS will change it. This is the test server. We're here to test things.
There was already a small gap between Breton and Altmer, in favour of Breton. So ZOS nerfed... Altmer. They clearly aren't testing these changes, which is why no one is optimistic
Its almost like... this is a... test... server... where... they... test... -- oh no. wait. nevermind. This is the public test server, has nothing to do with testing at all.
Not sure how long you've been here, but most extreme issues get ignored on the PTS even when a large amount of people make their case, spend time researching, make threads, etc. etc. If you don't believe me please go look at the Magicka Templar threads from Morrowind and onwards as an example.
Now to the OP:
I agree, Altmer needs to be given something to compensate properly for the removal of our sustain passive. Already, and this is from a PvP perspective because yes we need to discuss PvP as well, Altmer is behind on pretty much every magicka spec except Sorcerer. What I mean by this is that, sure, it's powerful on live as is, but when you take into account everything you need in PvP to survive and fight outnumbered, Altmer drifts to about third on the list for your top choice for magicka (I'm not discussing Sorcerer, Altmer is definitely the better race for it on live, even if I have always preferred my Dunmer). Top choices for PvPers right now would be Argonian, Breton, then Altmer. This is because Argonians are extremely tanky, can drop things like entropy on their bars and use spell power pots, and have superior stamina sustain for magicka. Bretons because of spell resist, and that's about it, really, on live. And Altmer doesn't offer anything to do with surviving, but at least could provide some sustain and some damage.
So while I do see the benefits of the stamina sustain, I still don't see the benefits of choosing Altmer over Argonian or Breton next patch in PvP. I main a Breton magicka warden currently and have for awhile now, and I'm excited for the changes to Breton, but looking at the Altmer changes is depressing.
I do think that Altmer should have to pick between damage and high sustain, but I don't see why all their sustain had to be taken away. The regen on Altmer is one of the biggest reasons to choose the race in the first place, and while they shouldn't have it all, that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least get a bit of sustain. I'm still pretty baffled. I just really hope they choose to reverse some of this nerf without trying to change everything else to "fall in line" with it.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.12