Stamina/Magicka Raid Warhorn DPS+Solo Sustain DPS Tests+Graphs with CP Stat Boost Correction (4.3.2)

susmitds

Greetings,

Aim

To find DD race's efficiency in a raid buffed DPS test as well as solo buffed and sustained DPS test, while correcting the effect of bugged CP boost Passive.

Gear, Food, CP, Mundus

Class - Nightblade Only
Magicka Gear - Spell Strategist, Mother's Sorrow, Valkyn Skoria all divines, 2 Bloodthirsty + 1 Infused, Infused Fire Staff, Infused vMA Fire Staff
Stamina Gear - Relenquen, Advancing Yokeda, Kra'gh all divines, 2 Bloodthirsty + 1 Infused, Nirn+Sharpened DW, Infused vMA Bow
Armor + Jewelry Enchants - All Stamina/Magicka(Armor), Weapon/Spell Damage(Jewelry)
Magicka Weapon Enchants - Flame+Infused Absorb Magcika(all except Breton)/Flame+Infused Berserker(Breton)
Stamina Weapon Enchants - Double DoT poisons+Infused Absorb Stamina(all except Redguard, Bosmer)/Double DoT poisons+Infused Berserker(Redguard, Bosmer)
Mundus - Lover for Stamina tests. Thief for Magicka tests. Shadow is tested for certain races and indicated by Shadow before the race name.
CP - We used Alcast's website ones to save time
Food - Green Stamina or Magicka Food is used for greater Primary Resource pool to simulate the effect of the CP boost passive on DPS as far as possible.

Procedure

Three tests are done. These are detailed below.

I. Raid-Buffed DPS Test with 4 Warhorns - All standard DPS buffs are provided + Orbs/Shards. Elemental Drain is provided. 1st Warhorn is given at the start of the test. 2nd Warhorn is given when the skeleton is down to 75%. 3rd Warhorn is given when the skeleton is down to 50%. 4th Warhorn is given when the skeleton is down to 25%. This results in 38 secs of Major Force uptime, spread across 4 phases. Gear remains same.
II. Solo-Buffed and Sustain Test - Just Elemental Drain is provided. Gear is modified minimally for sustain to maximize DPS while minimizing heavy attacks.
Gear changes: All Races except Redguard, Bosmer, Breton get 1 Stamina/Magicka Recovery on 1 Bloodthirsty Ring. Everybody, including Redguard, Bosmer, Breton now using Infused Stamina/Magicka Enchant Backbar.
III. True Resource Potential DPS Test with 4 Warhorns - Same Rules as Test I. Additional rules, Attribute Points of each race is shifted from Stamina/Magicka to Health till 15K HP is reached(Keep in mind, Green Resource Food means no Base Health from Food). Stamina DPS also using Valkyn Skoria for Bonus Health. Other Gear same as Test 1. This test is done to test the effect of the total useful stats for PvE of a certain race, including Health. If crit-resist is ignored, it will also show the overall damage ranking of races for PvP.

Observations

1. Magicka Tests










2. Stamina Tests

Results

Magicka Raid-DPS Best Race - Altmer
Magicka Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Breton
Magicka True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Khajiit
Stamina Raid-DPS Best Race - Orc
Stamina Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Orc
Stamina True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Orc

Note - I copied some of the repeating text from my previous test posts. Might have minor errors, that I will correct if found.

MartiniDaniels

Susmitds, ZOS must provide you some unique forum label as a gratitude or maybe couple of radiant apex mounts on your choice. Great results, confirms that extra health has very noticeable impact.

nsmurfer

Stamina Raid-DPS Best Race - Orc beats redguard/bosmer/khajiit for over 1k DPS
Stamina Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place redguard, shadow khajiit, bosmer for almost 1k DPS
Stamina True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place shadow khajiit, dunmer, redguard for over 1k DPS

All while casually rocking 1k more HP, 10% extra speed, 12% sprint cost reduction, health restore, etc

Balance......

@Alcast @Checkmath @Joy_Division

nsmurfer

Also, where are them Altmer whiners again?????!!!!

Ajax_22

Based on these results we can assume Altmer will increase their lead, and Dunmer will pass Kajit once the stat scaling gets corrected. All in all very tight race for number one.

mairwen85

nsmurfer wrote: »

Also, where are them Altmer whiners again?????!!!!

Shame there's no cheesy smug grin emoji 😁

LiquidPony

@susmitds One thing worth noting ... I don't think the double DoT poisons are actually a viable option in-game. As far as I know (I've tested it and seen others test it as well), poisons don't stack. So you can't have multiple people in a raid group using alchemical poisons of the same type/level or they will override each other.

This might affect stamina results a bit as you can run a "middle-ground" sustain setup with an Infused Berserker bow + Nirn (Poison)/Infused (Absorb Stam) DW.

IronWooshu

I knew Orcs would over succeed. The class is NOW the most dominant in PVE and PVP. Everyone with a brain on this forum looked at Orcs and said to themselves "Oh My God ZOS, What have you done with balance".

It's harder to show results for Orc in PVP but they have bonuses to EVERY stat that a PVP player wants.

EDIT: They are only going to pull away further when CP takes into effect on flat stats on the PTS.

susmitds

LiquidPony wrote: »

@susmitds One thing worth noting ... I don't think the double DoT poisons are actually a viable option in-game. As far as I know (I've tested it and seen others test it as well), poisons don't stack. So you can't have multiple people in a raid group using alchemical poisons of the same type/level or they will override each other.

This might affect stamina results a bit as you can run a "middle-ground" sustain setup with an Infused Berserker bow + Nirn (Poison)/Infused (Absorb Stam) DW.

@LiquidPony Thanks, I will do the next tests on fixed CP scaling with Poison enchant or Berserker depending on which comes out higher.

Azyle1

So, everything is fairly balanced... but Orc?

I mean, I guess Orc isn't TOO bad.

Masel

My key takeaway is that the balance is very good in a practical application. This matches my calculations pretty much at this point. However, where is imperial, that would've been something interesting to see! Especially on week 4 pts.

That will hopefully [snip]...

[Edit for bait.]

Edziu

but why ffs it is tested only on nb? especially on stamina dps
on stamina dps nb is just overpowered monster to rest classes
everyone always state dps on stamina from nb while jsut ignoring weaker classes and as everyone see how high dps is on stamblade then nobody even look at other classes where most of them are far away behind stamblade dps

could you also try these dps tests for example on stamina sorc dk or templar? at all I heared stamden isnt that far away with dps behind stamblade but from most people I hear how rest 3 stamina classes are really far far away from just stamblade

(or atleast someone could maybe explain me this if Im wrong please)

LiquidPony

Edziu wrote: »

but why ffs it is tested only on nb? especially on stamina dps
on stamina dps nb is just overpowered monster to rest classes
everyone always state dps on stamina from nb while jsut ignoring weaker classes and as everyone see how high dps is on stamblade then nobody even look at other classes where most of them are far away behind stamblade dps

could you also try these dps tests for example on stamina sorc dk or templar? at all I heared stamden isnt that far away with dps behind stamblade but from most people I hear how rest 3 stamina classes are really far far away from just stamblade

(or atleast someone could maybe explain me this if Im wrong please)

Why don't you test the other classes yourself?

susmitds

@MartiniDaniels Thanks a lot, man. Health will affect PvE but not exactly in every scenario. For Raids, all races will already hit 18K HP with Blue Food without Ebon if CP scaling works right. The place where HP will help is extreme soloing, dungeon no-death skin runs and for PUG runs. And obviously PvP and Shields.

codestripper

nsmurfer wrote: »

Stamina Raid-DPS Best Race - Orc beats redguard/bosmer/khajiit for over 1k DPS
Stamina Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place redguard, shadow khajiit, bosmer for almost 1k DPS
Stamina True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place shadow khajiit, dunmer, redguard for over 1k DPS

All while casually rocking 1k more HP, 10% extra speed, 12% speed reduction, health restore, etc

Balance......

@Alcast @Checkmath @Joy_Division

Orc beats dunmer for best raid race (64199.4 - 63834.6) by 364.8 DPS
Orc beats redguard for best solo-sustained (52922.5 - 52364.1) by 558.4 DPS
Orc beats khajiit for potential DPS (63317.9 - 62168.6) by 1149.3 DPS

So, not exactly as bad as you make it sound, but still winning in all respects yes.

Edziu

LiquidPony wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

but why ffs it is tested only on nb? especially on stamina dps
on stamina dps nb is just overpowered monster to rest classes
everyone always state dps on stamina from nb while jsut ignoring weaker classes and as everyone see how high dps is on stamblade then nobody even look at other classes where most of them are far away behind stamblade dps

could you also try these dps tests for example on stamina sorc dk or templar? at all I heared stamden isnt that far away with dps behind stamblade but from most people I hear how rest 3 stamina classes are really far far away from just stamblade

(or atleast someone could maybe explain me this if Im wrong please)

Why don't you test the other classes yourself?

as Im very upset to lvl everything again and again on every character..I know people here have no problem with it to switch to every meta but as for me... I was playing 1 single character for over 3.5 years, then quit and back here again but just on other character 1st time while "un-learning" how to play now this my old character after that many changes after over 1 year

EDIT: also I never switch to meta, I play what I want to play and then Im going to be close to master this in way I like it but Im upset as for not only how long jsut stamblade is meta but also how other classes are just inferior to nb for that long time (last time only stamplar get finally get fixed (not buffed) with his sustain in group so finally isn't on the deepest deep of everything)

susmitds

@Masel Imperials should be in a far better position if the CP scaling works, especially with Max Stam-Stam Recovery food, so I left testing for now.

I feel balance is great as of now. Only thing I think is somewhat overpowered is the Orc's 1K health, given that you can swap enchants on jewels to get almost the same exact recovery as Bosmer but end up with better health. I think it also encroaches on Imperial's territory of stat boosts, while being significantly stronger in other categories too.

kathandira

nsmurfer wrote: »

Stamina Raid-DPS Best Race - Orc beats redguard/bosmer/khajiit for over 1k DPS
Stamina Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place redguard, shadow khajiit, bosmer for almost 1k DPS
Stamina True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place shadow khajiit, dunmer, redguard for over 1k DPS

All while casually rocking 1k more HP, 10% extra speed, 12% speed reduction, health restore, etc

Balance......

@Alcast @Checkmath @Joy_Division

Oh no! A whole 1,000 DPS?! Goodness, looks like only Orcs in can play the game now. /s

Ajax_22

Edziu wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

but why ffs it is tested only on nb? especially on stamina dps
on stamina dps nb is just overpowered monster to rest classes
everyone always state dps on stamina from nb while jsut ignoring weaker classes and as everyone see how high dps is on stamblade then nobody even look at other classes where most of them are far away behind stamblade dps

could you also try these dps tests for example on stamina sorc dk or templar? at all I heared stamden isnt that far away with dps behind stamblade but from most people I hear how rest 3 stamina classes are really far far away from just stamblade

(or atleast someone could maybe explain me this if Im wrong please)

Why don't you test the other classes yourself?

as Im very upset to lvl everything again and again on every character..I know people here have no problem with it to switch to every meta but as for me... I was playing 1 single character for over 3.5 years, then quit and back here again but just on other character 1st time while "un-learning" how to play now this my old character after that many changes after over 1 year

How does this have anything to do with testing DPS on the PTS using premade max level characters?

MartiniDaniels

codestripper wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

Stamina Raid-DPS Best Race - Orc beats redguard/bosmer/khajiit for over 1k DPS
Stamina Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place redguard, shadow khajiit, bosmer for almost 1k DPS
Stamina True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place shadow khajiit, dunmer, redguard for over 1k DPS

All while casually rocking 1k more HP, 10% extra speed, 12% speed reduction, health restore, etc

Balance......

@Alcast @Checkmath @Joy_Division

Orc beats redguard for best raid race (64199.4 - 63878.9) by 320 DPS
Orc beats redguard for best solo-sustained (52922.5 - 52364.1) by 558.4 DPS
Orc beats khajiit for potential DPS (63317.9 - 62168.6) by 1149.3 DPS

So, not exactly as bad as you make it sound, but still winning in all respects yes.

63878 is shadow Orc, redguard is 62547.

Azyle1

Remember when people said we needed to nerf Khajiits.

Oh wait, that was yesterday.

They seem to have the potential to do the most DPS but their inconsistency is certainly there.

susmitds

Edziu wrote: »

but why ffs it is tested only on nb? especially on stamina dps
on stamina dps nb is just overpowered monster to rest classes
everyone always state dps on stamina from nb while jsut ignoring weaker classes and as everyone see how high dps is on stamblade then nobody even look at other classes where most of them are far away behind stamblade dps

could you also try these dps tests for example on stamina sorc dk or templar? at all I heared stamden isnt that far away with dps behind stamblade but from most people I hear how rest 3 stamina classes are really far far away from just stamblade

(or atleast someone could maybe explain me this if Im wrong please)

CP scaling is bugged, otherwise my guild would have done every class. Useless to do it now and repeat the whole thing after 5 days because well ZOS.

susmitds

nsmurfer wrote: »

Stamina Raid-DPS Best Race - Orc beats redguard/bosmer/khajiit for over 1k DPS
Stamina Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place redguard, shadow khajiit, bosmer for almost 1k DPS
Stamina True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place shadow khajiit, dunmer, redguard for over 1k DPS

All while casually rocking 1k more HP, 10% extra speed, 12% speed reduction, health restore, etc

Balance......

Orc DPS is not the issue, what I gather, Orc 1K health is. Getting the highest DPS by a few percentage is not much considering Orc is supposed to be a glass cannon. To quote you,

nsmurfer wrote: »

All while casually rocking 1k more HP

is the real issue as it goes against the glass cannon approach that ZOS seems to going for.

Dottzgaming

Doing the lord's work. These results actually surprise me. Just goes to show why testing is so important. well done man, great post!

OtarTheMad

Wow, so they really did make the magicka races closer together. Even stamina is pretty close. Good job by ZOS.

EDIT- Thanks for all your testing of this stuff and posting it here on the forums, that's a great job.

ccmedaddy

LOL @ this flying in the face of all the Altmer hysteria that's been taking place here all week.

Thank you so much for this.

Ajax_22

Masel wrote: »

My key takeaway is that the balance is very good in a practical application. This matches my calculations pretty much at this point. However, where is imperial, that would've been something interesting to see! Especially on week 4 pts.

That will hopefully [snip]...

[Edit for bait.]

Yeah, I'd like to see where Imperial is with a working Red Diamond, but there's no point in testing it until then. I'd like to see their block and bash cost changed to passive regen or mag and stam cost. I'll reserve my a analysis until we can actually test the class. All in all looking like it will be pretty close when we get accurate tests next week.

Edziu

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

but why ffs it is tested only on nb? especially on stamina dps
on stamina dps nb is just overpowered monster to rest classes
everyone always state dps on stamina from nb while jsut ignoring weaker classes and as everyone see how high dps is on stamblade then nobody even look at other classes where most of them are far away behind stamblade dps

could you also try these dps tests for example on stamina sorc dk or templar? at all I heared stamden isnt that far away with dps behind stamblade but from most people I hear how rest 3 stamina classes are really far far away from just stamblade

(or atleast someone could maybe explain me this if Im wrong please)

Why don't you test the other classes yourself?

as Im very upset to lvl everything again and again on every character..I know people here have no problem with it to switch to every meta but as for me... I was playing 1 single character for over 3.5 years, then quit and back here again but just on other character 1st time while "un-learning" how to play now this my old character after that many changes after over 1 year

How does this have anything to do with testing DPS on the PTS using premade max level characters?

well...at all on PTS are mainly onle race changes, no class chagnes so I dont think difference in dps between classes would be cutted like just between races it going to be
+ I have no time for PTS + my computer is *** but thats an offtopic and that why I look at forums in threads like this to look at people tests who also are good enough on every class to do this while I mainly have good learned single class at which I play

and about dps and other classes...if stamblade isnt the best, in meta for that long then why almost everybody I see at more hardcore runs on content like scores etc are mianly just stamblades and I barely see other stam classes which atleast can have comparable dps to stamblade?

Masel

susmitds wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

Stamina Raid-DPS Best Race - Orc beats redguard/bosmer/khajiit for over 1k DPS
Stamina Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place redguard, shadow khajiit, bosmer for almost 1k DPS
Stamina True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place shadow khajiit, dunmer, redguard for over 1k DPS

All while casually rocking 1k more HP, 10% extra speed, 12% speed reduction, health restore, etc

Balance......

Orc DPS is not the issue, what I gather, Orc 1K health is. Getting the highest DPS by a few percentage is not much considering Orc is supposed to be a glass cannon. To quote you,
quote="nsmurfer;c-5805272"]
All while casually rocking 1k more HP

is the real issue[/quote]

Either that has to be reduced or the stamina a little bit. I'll have a chat with the devs and reps about this, since that is something we have noticed too.

codestripper

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

Stamina Raid-DPS Best Race - Orc beats redguard/bosmer/khajiit for over 1k DPS
Stamina Solo-Sustained DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place redguard, shadow khajiit, bosmer for almost 1k DPS
Stamina True Resource Potential DPS Best Race - Orc beats 2nd place shadow khajiit, dunmer, redguard for over 1k DPS

All while casually rocking 1k more HP, 10% extra speed, 12% speed reduction, health restore, etc

Balance......

@Alcast @Checkmath @Joy_Division

Orc beats dunmer for best raid race (64199.4 - 63834.6) by 364.8 DPS
Orc beats redguard for best solo-sustained (52922.5 - 52364.1) by 558.4 DPS
Orc beats khajiit for potential DPS (63317.9 - 62168.6) by 1149.3 DPS

So, not exactly as bad as you make it sound, but still winning in all respects yes.

63878 is shadow Orc, redguard is 62547.

oo you're right, fixed now. sorry the dunmer and orc one blended together in my head when I was reading it.

Edziu

susmitds wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

but why ffs it is tested only on nb? especially on stamina dps
on stamina dps nb is just overpowered monster to rest classes
everyone always state dps on stamina from nb while jsut ignoring weaker classes and as everyone see how high dps is on stamblade then nobody even look at other classes where most of them are far away behind stamblade dps

could you also try these dps tests for example on stamina sorc dk or templar? at all I heared stamden isnt that far away with dps behind stamblade but from most people I hear how rest 3 stamina classes are really far far away from just stamblade

(or atleast someone could maybe explain me this if Im wrong please)

CP scaling is bugged, otherwise my guild would have done every class. Useless to do it now and repeat the whole thing after 5 days because well ZOS.

ah ok, tyvm then for answer