pieratsos wrote: »

No you are not the one removing the debuff. The set is doing it for you.

And you are not the one applying the snare. The Warmth passive is doing it for you.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

So your argument is that it breaks CC for you, therefore it’s OP.

Heh. Ok, make the set not break you free from CC. Problem solved.

Ok then my argument is its OP because it auto purges. Care to solve that problem too pls

Minno wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

So your argument is that it breaks CC for you, therefore it’s OP.

Heh. Ok, make the set not break you free from CC. Problem solved.

Ok then my argument is its OP because it auto purges. Care to solve that problem too pls

Ever hit by 5 bleeds at once, plus siphoner, plus a snare, plus major fracture?

Anyone who's ever been to Cyrodiil has. Would welcome ZOS toning it down a bit but we need better class balance first

Why not just remove DoTs from the game if you hate them this much ZoS.

Assuming this set goes live and DoTs/defiles are pointless, the only damage options left in PvP will be to stack burst (or if you are in a group, to stack multiple sources of damage that can overwhelm this set). And so aware players will just increase their max health so that they are above the burst threshold of burst builds, and then unless you are playing with a coordinated group, nobody will die. The only way to kill a user of this set (if they have sufficient max hp and healing) will be by outnumbering them, and for this reason, this set is indirectly a huge nerf to solo play and small groups.

GO CURSE OR GO CRY !

pieratsos wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

And yeah it shouldnt be as easy to remove debuffs as it is to apply them.

Good thing then that you can apply debuffs in this game while being literally AFK, eh?

So you literally ignored everything again

Sorry it is very hard to not ignore you again when you just keep repeating the same mantra over and over again.

"It shuts down entire classes!" - not outside of duels, it doesn't.
"It removes debuffs by simply running a hot!" - just like you can apply debuffs by simply running a dot.
"It is free!" - not it isn't, it costs you one of you two 5-piece bonuses.

Did i miss something again? Terribly sorry.

Still want to see that full duel video showing the set in a 5-10 minute fight lol.

I am always happy when there is a set that gives healers or supporters something new to play with. For this reason I really want to give this set a try. Sadly, there is no PTS for consoles so I hope ZOS stays reasonable and will not lightly give in to the chime in the forums before the set can properly be tested out. Many of the complaints are hard to test on PTS, as well, so I highly opt for no pre-release nerf but a check under live conditions how good or bad the set performs under certain conditions. If need be, adjustments can be done along the way at a later point after thoroughly testing under all possible conditions.

I can understand why ZOS updated the set in the way they did. Whoever enters PVP nowadays is confronted with endless debuffs from snares and roots to poisons, siphoning, fracture, bleeds and whatnot to a point of sheer madness. It's so overwhelming that the debuff marker barely can catch up with all the stuff you see applied to. Based on that, it makes perfect sense to give any build an option to deal with some of those negative effects for a reasonable price. Even efficient purge is too expensive to be of use for stamina builds or any build in non-CP-environments. Bottom line: It makes sense to have a set like curse eater in the game to counter debuff/dot-based builds at least to some extent. And to give this toolset to anyone. Many players were desperately looking for that.

Having said this, I'll give my opinion based on the pure stats on paper towards some of the concerns in this thread (mostly PVP-related) and I will also talk about PVE a bit later on which seems to be a bit blended out during the whole debate. The three most controversial objections against this set seem to be Sorc burst, small-scale PVP performance or duels and Battlegrounds.

1. Sorcs may be challenged to lose their favorite burst rotation

lassitershawn wrote: »

I keep using the magsorc example because it is the most severe but honestly how could a magsorc ever kill someone with curse never being allowed to go off. It is skillless and provides extra utility in the form of mag regen.

Mag sorcs may encounter builds with curse eater slotted that will be harder to kill with the usual rotation. It will be time to adjust to such builds:

1. There's loads of other negative effects you can use on ppl within the various skill lines, CP options, enchants or poisons so you can stack way more than just 3-4. But you may have to change the rotation to achieve that. Adjustment is key.
2. You can also call for friends to help burst them or
3. simply ignore such people. The same is true if you encounter tanks or good healers in pvp.

Be smart with your prey and adjust is common sense for since pvp went live. We should not forget that curse eater is a defensive set by design. It is like forbidding a tank to use block or a healer to self-purge with a skill. It's not like anyone is entitled to destroy every player with the same toolkit they encounter. Some need adjustments, some enemies are just plain better ignored.

Another note for offensive players slotting curse eater. They give up more damage burst or sustain (stam builds) for the set bonus curse eater offers. It makes offensive builds hybrid in terms of offensive and defensive capabilities, something sorcs may not feel the need for, being able to streak out of situations that aren't to their liking. Less mobile builds need different tools to stand their grounds. Give some, take some is what balance is all about and does not sound as foul as the common conception seems to be in this thread. It's not like the purge of curse means automatically that you're destroyed in the process.

Having curse eater purge without using a skill is the nature of a defensive proc - as much as the nature of an offensive proc set is to deal damage without any further action on top of what you do anyways. We may not like proc sets per se but they are part of ESO and as long as they are, there is a place for both offensive or defensive procs. May we agree or disagree with that concept. It's part of the game at the moment. There literally is no reason to start a witch hunt against particular proc sets as long as others stay in the game. Unless they are indeed over-performing and need adjustments. If they do, they shall get that.

However, it seems absurd to nerf a set because it counters one certain ability (curse). If that is an issue of importance for ZOS, an adjustment to curse may be the better option to deal with the issue rather than nerf an undesirable set to become undesirable again.

2. Duels, small-scale and big-scale pvp

The answer to the complaint this set might over-perform in duels is easy and common use in tournaments already. Setup a ruleset under which you wanna duel and rule out the sets you don't want to be used. That sorts all the duel issues. When it comes to PVP, the smaller the combat field, the higher may be the potential of Curse Eater. I see that but it depends on who you fight once again. I would like to leave the small-scale pvp open because I don't feel entitled to comment on this without actual testing.

Big-scale pvp, the way more typical scenario of Cyrodiil, won't be more or less broken with curse eater. I doubt it will have any notable effect in those situations but if it has, only live servers can answer that question. I doubt you can properly test massive zerg fights in pop capped campaigns on PTS so we should be a bit more chilled and wait for it to perform under real conditions. Test first, complain after, please.

3. Battlegrounds

bardx86 wrote: »

In BGs there are a lot of fights that are 1vX. This set completely negates a Sorcs rotation. If someone is holding a flag or guarding a relic a sorc isn't going to win that fight. It's completely broken. Hell running this on a DK a sorc can only force pulse that DK. Sounds super fun doesn't it. It's broken and you know it.

The same is true if you run into dedicated tanks or healers. There is no entitlement that any build can destroy everyone in the game. If this set helps to stay your ground, that's counter play. And counter play is something ZOS tries to address more and more if you read the past update's patch notes. Don't forget that a player with Curse Eater gives up on offensive power and won't likely flip the page and rip you into pieces. It's a defensive set and may indeed help players to fulfill their defensive role, that includes BG. Based on ZOS' intent to give counter play more meaning, this might be a feature and no oversight.

PVE-related concerns

If we totally blend out PVP for a minute, I doubt anyone would have an objection against this set being used in PVE for certain situations. And it is exactly what a good PVE healer/support set offers: Magicka? Check. Resources? Lots of regen, check. A 5th set bonus that both helps the group and provides some buff (resources)? Check. Also it gives PVE supporters a reason to visit PVP to obtain the set. Giving more people reasons to join Cyrodiil is healthy per se.

It is a very situational PVE set but can be useful anywhere lots of purges are needed and some players may be out of range of the expensive purge skill. It could also work as a remote purge, triggered with rapid regen/mutagen and thereful be handy at times - be it in vhof, vmol or elsewhere. In the current form I see this set potentially be useful for such specific situations. A nerf might ruin that (limited) PVE usefulness right away. I'd like to give it a try for PVE and I'm sure there's more PVE healers, supporters or even tanks who think alike. There's no chance to if the update won't make it on live for us console players.

Final note

As a general note, I'm a bit worried about all the complaints up to some point of hysteria based on paper stats and without real testing. If this set over-performs as much as people state without testing curse eater, that qualifies for a nerf. But we should have the opportunity to test it out first. And many points can be tested on live only. Earthgore showed how to do it. Give it a go and if it's too strong, adjust it next hotfix or patch. ZOS did that. So don't be too worried about a new set. Game won't break, game won't die because of one set and over-performance will be addressed if need be. But a ruined set prior realease will stay ruined. And that's what curse eater is atm. Don't conserve its uselessness. Please.

brandonv516 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Curse eater is unbalanced.

Because it totaly hard counter magsorc and their main offensive skill : Curse (the both morphs).

Sorcerers have no class debuffs, that's mean the Haunting curse and Deadric prey will always be purged.

And a sorcerer without a curse will never kill someone.

The set also counter other class : MagDK cannot get their burst heal with ember and their CC is hard countered, stam dk get venomous claws + defile or bleed removed, Magplar and stamplar cannot burst with PoTL, ect

In a 1v1 situation I can already purge Magsorcs' Curse on my Magplar, screwing up their burst opportunity.

And if I slot Purge on any other class, I can do the same.

As said before, Curse Eater should not break hard CC (Fear, Stun, etc.), it should not stack with other Curse Eater sets, and the cooldown should be about 4 seconds. With such changes, it would be balanced.

Slotting purge is a significant sacrifice. It takes a GCD (not a passive purge) and costs a lot of magicka versus giving back magicka. It takes up barspace from other important skills. The sacrifice from slotting this set is a LOT less and it has quite a lot of defensive power. Templar purge is an integral part of the class identity. If someone used an active purge to get rid of my curse I'm not going to care. Having it instantly removed passively is ridiculous and because casting it against a curse eater user would be pointless curse eater then gets to counter another two debuffs. That said, the changes you listed would go a long way towards balancing the set though personally I think removing proc on HoTs is the optimal solution. Turning all of your active heals into a purge + sustain skill is strong enough. Also prevents purging CC as a side effect because you can't actively cast a heal while CCed.

as Long as it procs just to one ally at a time (tested on pts) it is not ganna be strong in Group Gameplay...