Maintenance for the week of September 29:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
New dungeons better be normal
-
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So what is the actual issue with DLC normals, then? Let's look at points raised:- One shots --> ZoS can fix? YES
- Mob numbers --> ZoS can fix? YES
- Mechanics --> ZoS can fix? YES
- Inability to aim --> ZoS can fix? NO
- Low DPS --> ZoS can fix? NO
- Available playtime --> ZoS can fix? MAYBE
If ZoS therefore designs future DLC with points 1-3 in mind, i.e. they lower mob numbers, simplify mechanics, remove one shots, would that make them doable for you with the trouble you have aiming, and your low dps? Should they make new content shorter to accommodate point 6?
Hmmm. I feel there has to be some requirement from the user on this, some effort vs reward. If you PUG, your individual dps in a normal dungeon is a minor issue (but if you're somehow doing less than 10k, something is very wrong); it's only when disrupted by mechanics that you'll be presented with trouble. Point 3 covers this. Should ZoS make enemies one-shots for players?
Despite the arguments presented, and my agreement that they can always tone it down a touch -- I still feel the parity of normal vs veteran as seen in the latest dungeons should remain (less the one-shots!
). For the use case as presented in this thread, either an new exception mode (i.e. story mode) or delve mode might be an acceptable solution, or if you need a low risk, training variant that adheres to group design, then a solo mode with AI group members might be the way forward
aiming issues - yes ZoS can fix in theory by introducing sticky targeting. example - GW2 has action combat somewhat similar to ESO both with active movement/dodging and bar swapping. but it also has sticky targeting. (incidentally, yeah with aiming issues, dropping bellow 10k is just about inevitable in any fight where you cannot just stand still and "parse")
low dps - yes ZoS can fix in theory, but they won't at this point. how? a great deal of dps issues are due to rotations requiring animation canceling/weaving. it is not possible to have high dps without it. possible fix. make animations last their actual cast times and vice versa so that you cannot clip them anymore (notice, that I'm not saying ability canceling - ability canceling for the purposes of moving out of bad, switching targets, etc - should remain in game). that will reduce the upper dps ceiling, allowing them to design content that is suitable for wider audience. however, this will make high end players extremely unhappy, so they will not do it.
ergo. story or delve mode is the only way to go that will please everyone. because even if story mode still have mechanics that punish you for ignoring them (for example - a fight against Manimarco in solo story has mechanics that WILL kill you if you ignore them. it teaches you not to stand in red and not to go out of bounds - the very same mechanics that shows up in Falkreath keep, interestingly enough) at least you are not subject to whims of 3 other players dropping group or kicking you, or sprinting through leaving you behind and can actualy take your time to learn aforementioned mechanics. and it should give you a few seconds to react before killing you, rather then insta killing you.
I'm not exactly happy that some of the nicer fluff is hidden between vet modes (like gorgeous vivid dyes), but after some grumbling, I can accept it. what I'm tired of accepting is that the story is gated behind this even more difficult group content.
things like Black Rose prison? awesome! I actualy have never once stepped foot inside, and unlikely to do so, but I don't need to becasue the only things gated behind it are achievements, corresponding fluff you can show off to other players and gear. NO story.
P.S. as long as we have the gigantic dps gap between players that we have right now for some players certain enemies will always be one shots or at least something that might as well be one shot. alternative is making those enemies a horrible slog for players on lower end.Edited by Linaleah on January 21, 2019 1:09PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Edited to add | RE: Aiming
I had to go back and read this.... unless of course those mechanics also assume a certain dps minimum which in this game is "soooo easy" to achieve, except it isn't unless you have impeccable aim and at least decent reflexes. and it doesn't help that more recent bosses just love moving around while also making YOU move around constantly, so you can't even fake a turret mode. this is why bte, I'm not a big fan of target dummy dps numbers. target dummy doesn't move. it doesn't make YOU move. so aiming issues are not an issue on target dummy. my personal dps halves or more between target dummy and dungeon SOLELY because no sticky targeting = half my shots don't even land.
What isn't hitting? Ground AoEs? Light attacks? Because most single target skills wont fire unless they are triggered on a valid target (they are guaranteed to impact unless the enemy dodge rolls to avoid; mobs don't really do this)... Ground AoEs can be set to instant cast in game options -- this helps because it eliminates the double cast bug, and the AoE hits exactly where you point your cross-hair. Light attacks, that's just a timing thing, precision isn't necessary really, and you can miss a few without it getting your group wiped. In fact you can pretty much plough through any normal dungeon without even light attack weaving.
Apologies. Looks like I added this edit while you were replying. If you don't mind explaining. I am having trouble understanding this problem in particular. Especially as in your latest reply you believe ZoS can fix it.Edited by mairwen85 on January 21, 2019 1:17PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Edited to add | RE: Aiming
I had to go back and read this.and e can judge people for leaving. or not. but they are still leaving. one wipe is generally not enough to know whether the group is "good enough" most people need a few tries to GET mechanics. unless of course those mechanics also assume a certain dps minimum which in this game is "soooo easy" to achieve, except it isn't unless you have impeccable aim and at least decent reflexes. and it doesn't help that more recent bosses just love moving around while also making YOU move around constantly, so you can't even fake a turret mode. this is why bte, I'm not a big fan of target dummy dps numbers. target dummy doesn't move. it doesn't make YOU move. so aiming issues are not an issue on target dummy. my personal dps halves or more between target dummy and dungeon SOLELY because no sticky targeting = half my shots don't even land.
What isn't hitting? Ground AoEs? Light attacks? Because most single target skills wont fire unless they are triggered on a valid target (they are guaranteed to impact unless the enemy dodge rolls to avoid; mobs don't really do this)... Ground AoEs can be set to instant cast in game options -- this helps because it eliminates the double cast bug, and the AoE hits exactly where you point your cross-hair. Light attacks, that's just a timing thing, precision isn't necessary really, and you can miss a few without it getting your group wiped. In fact you can pretty much plough through any normal dungeon without even light attack weaving.
Apologies. Looks like I added this edit while you were replying. If you don't mind explaining. I am having trouble understanding this problem in particular. Especially as in your latest reply you believe ZoS can fix it.
ground AoE's will lend whether the enemy is still there, or moved away. if those AoE's have small radius - they will not hit the mob. light attacks fire whether you have a target or not, so you could be light attacking and thinking you are hitting something, but you are not. in games with sticky targeting, as long as the mob is more or less in front of you, your aim moves with them and you continue to hit them - so there is a lot less constant aim adjustment.
in ESO, just like in shooters, if your reticule is not precisely over the mob - you will not be damaging them. for some of us, adjusting that aim can take precious extra seconds that eat into dps numbers. ( its far FAR worse in pvp, as players with any degree of proficiency are constantly move precisely to disrupt your aim - as they should, not saying that they shouldn't, I'm just saying that disrupting aim is the goal here and it works)
ESO actualy has.. sort of sticky targeting. for instance - bow ultimate. you can dodge it, but you cannot really outrun it as it actualy follows the person you originally aimed it at, even if they are moving around. its why its such a nice ultimate for certain bosses.
as for any normal dungeon being possible without any light attack weaving. eh. vanilla ones, sure. DLC? only if your group members are compensating.Edited by Linaleah on January 21, 2019 1:19PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thank you for your answer. It certainly sheds some light on things from your perspective.ground AoE's will lend whether the enemy is still there, or moved away. if those AoE's have small radius - they will not hit the mob. light attacks fire whether you have a target or not, so you could be light attacking and thinking you are hitting something, but you are not. in games with sticky targeting, as long as the mob is more or less in front of you, your aim moves with them and you continue to hit them - so there is a lot less minute aim adjustment.
That's the point of them. They're ground attacks. You cast them on the ground either under mobs, or pull mobs into them.
Likewise, you drop them on bosses, or manoeuvre bosses into them.in ESO, just like in shooters, if your reticule is not precisely over the mob - you will not be damaging them. for some of us, adjusting that aim can take precious extra seconds that eat into dps numbers. ( its far FAR worse in pvp, as players with any degree of proficiency are constantly movie precisely to disrupt your aim)
This, for light attacks, is a timing thing. Your single target will ONLY fire if triggered on a valid target -- and will guarantee hit = it locks on that target. One or 2 light attack misses is not a bad thing -- is acceptable, and happens to all of us. Trick is to time light attacks properly with your spammable, or single target skills.
I like that they don't lock on like single target abilities. It also makes sense as these are 'wild' shots -- enforcing targeting adds a skill level that auto lock doesn't. Since the cross-hair is the camera centre point, the camera swings to hold it centred, a dynamic sticky-targetting system as you describe would be a giddying, sea-sick nightmare.ESO actualy has.. sort of sticky targeting. for instance - bow ultimate. you can dodge it, but you cannot really outrun it as it actualy follows the person you originally aimed it at, even if they are moving around. its why its such a nice ultimate for certain bosses.
Yeah, it does this for all single target abilities. Mobs don't dodge roll
as for any normal dungeon being possible without any light attack weaving. eh. vanilla ones, sure. DLC? only if your group members are compensating.
Hmmm... I disagree, but that's neither here nor there. I guess I'll admit that I still don't fully understand the difficulty you're expressing, but I can accept that it's real for you and something that lowers your enjoyment of the game.
I hope someone @ ZoS reads these threads and pitches the story/delve mode as you envision it. Hopefully that will restore your dungeon experience.Edited by mairwen85 on January 21, 2019 1:43PM0 -
ApostateHobo wrote: »A large portion of the player base plays because it's Elder Scrolls. These people, myself included, play it like they would any other rpg. The fact that it's an mmo is just kind of a side thing. Some of us "git gud" so we can so everything we want to solo like we would in say Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. However not everyone is really interested in that, used to the effort/difficulty of it, or even capable of it if they have limitations like time or disabilities etc. So yeah to you they suck I guess, but they just want to play another Elder Scrolls game without waiting several more years.
This.
Thank you @ApostateHobo, someone at last understands why I play ESO. I do not and will not play any other MMO and only play ESO because it is the only TES game that is currently being updated.4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thank you for your answer. It certainly sheds some light on things from your perspective.ground AoE's will lend whether the enemy is still there, or moved away. if those AoE's have small radius - they will not hit the mob. light attacks fire whether you have a target or not, so you could be light attacking and thinking you are hitting something, but you are not. in games with sticky targeting, as long as the mob is more or less in front of you, your aim moves with them and you continue to hit them - so there is a lot less minute aim adjustment.
That's the point of them. They're ground attacks. You cast them on the ground either under mobs, or pull mobs into them.
Likewise, you drop them on bosses, or manoeuvre bosses into them.in ESO, just like in shooters, if your reticule is not precisely over the mob - you will not be damaging them. for some of us, adjusting that aim can take precious extra seconds that eat into dps numbers. ( its far FAR worse in pvp, as players with any degree of proficiency are constantly movie precisely to disrupt your aim)
This, for light attacks, is a timing thing. Your single target will ONLY fire if triggered on a valid target -- and will guarantee hit = it locks on that target. One or 2 light attack misses is not a bad thing -- is acceptable, and happens to all of us. Trick is to time light attacks properly with your spammable, or single target skills.
I like that they don't lock on like single target abilities. It also makes sense as these are 'wild' shots -- enforcing targeting adds a skill level that auto lock doesn't. Since the cross-hair is the camera centre point, the camera swings to hold it centred, a dynamic sticky-targetting system as you describe would be a giddying, sea-sick nightmare.ESO actualy has.. sort of sticky targeting. for instance - bow ultimate. you can dodge it, but you cannot really outrun it as it actualy follows the person you originally aimed it at, even if they are moving around. its why its such a nice ultimate for certain bosses.
Yeah, it does this for all single target abilities. Mobs don't dodge rollas for any normal dungeon being possible without any light attack weaving. eh. vanilla ones, sure. DLC? only if your group members are compensating.
Hmmm... I disagree, but that's neither here nor there. I guess I'll admit that I still don't fully understand the difficulty you're expressing, but I can accept that it's real for you and something that lowers your enjoyment of the game.
I hope someone @ ZoS reads these threads and pitches the story/delve mode as you envision it. Hopefully that will restore your dungeon experience.
camera doesn't have to wildly swing to adjust for aim. it only adjusts with minor positioning changes. think the sort of adjustment you get with biting jabs or its magika equivalent, whose name escapes me at the moment (although interestingly enough, itys one of the abilities I have trouble with, becasue it fires whether you are in range or not, whether your aim is sound or not)
that said. random question that just occurred to me. are you by any chance playing on console? becasue often times console versions of games including shooters - have aim assist built in, to compensate for reduced dexterity of aiming with controller. its what made it possible for me to play games like Uncharted and Last of us, among other things. as far as I have experienced - PC has no aim assist, relying entirely on precise mouse aiming which can and does add to the skill gap.
in any case timing trick is indeed tricky. timing abilities to fire just so, while maintaining aim, WHILE dealing with dodging out of bad, while often times dealing with latency of 200 or more. for some of us its ... too tricky.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
They bought it because it was an Elder Scrolls title, WHICH BY THE WAY was single player for years.FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
LOL, and those people bought an MMO because....? I suppose the entire game design is wrong. it can't be that a few people are too dim to realise than a massively multiplayer game might just require playing with other players.
I seriously wonder how such people manage to get out of bed without somehow inflicting a mortal injury on themselves.
Ah I see, so they all failed to realise the significance of the word 'online' in the title, 'Elder Scrolls Online'. One rather hopes they don't get similarly perplexed when faced with the terms, 'walk' and 'don't walk' at the crosswalk, could get messy.
I've owned every TES title since Arena, but upon reading the word 'Online', I was immediately struck with a sneaking suspicion that this might be an online game requiring interaction with other players. Call me Inspector Clueso if you will, for perhaps I have a knack for sniffing out these normally impossible to discern hidden details of the written word.
2 -
SiAScORCH✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.
sigh. I mean I'm not surprised that you are not getting it, but.. you are not getting it. knowing rotation =/= being able to execute it. especially in ESO that doesn't have tab targeting, has this mess of a system called LA weaving/animation canceling in addition to bar swapping. oh and latency. latency messes you up in this game in a way that it doesn't in other mmos...
I just... there is this russian saying that roughly translates as "someone with full belly will never understand someone who is starving" I feel like it applies here.
and you know the irony here, is for all this "you have to be social, its an MMO" admonitions from all these people, you all are also perfectly ok with kicking people out of groups if they don;'t perform to your specifications, forgetting that those people are PEOPLE, they are someone's friends, they are probably people in this thread and others like it. they could be (and often are) perfectly nice people that just happen not to be god's gift to gaming. off with their heads! /slam the kick button
I do get it, you don't. I was new, and I'm a way better player than I was back then. If you get kicked then accept it. I'm not about to be punished and have to sit through a miserable dungeon because you can't better yourself. Nope.
you don't get it. I'm a better player then i used to be as well. I didn't used to be able to solo early normal dungeons or those 2 craglorn story quests that are group based. now I can. however, personal improvement =/= enough for ever growing demands of the the new content, especially with people like YOU.
I'm sorry people like YOU whine about wanting stuff easier.2 -
Didaco✭✭✭✭How about this: players play the game, skill up, advance and progress until they can complete the new dungeons.
How about this: players play the game, skill up, advance and progress until they can complete the new dungeons and then never get to actually meet each other because of real life issues and daily routines.
And just to prevent you from labeling this as an excuse, I didn't cry for nerfs to vMA when it first came out, I knew I could get better and I eventually got it on my vampire stamblade.
So, it's not a l2p issue because I love challenges, I come from much harder games, and I know that the main issue with vet dungeons is players' knowledge of the actual mechanics.
The problem lies in finding people willing to achieve such goals and you can be damn sure I won't be spending my free time yelling "LFG" in zone/guild chat to find someone.
Oh, and forgot to say, I wouldn't mind at all to get all geared up for vet dungeon if there was a legit solo mode but apparently asking for such a thing irks some social life white knights and gets them to says illogical things, like " this in an MMO so you have to play with other people".Edited by Didaco on January 21, 2019 2:23PM1 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's a MMO. I don't mean to offend you but if you have no time because of your RL then MMOs aren't a thing for you.3 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭... random question that just occurred to me. are you by any chance playing on console? becasue often times console versions of games including shooters - have aim assist built in, to compensate for reduced dexterity of aiming with controller. its what made it possible for me to play games like Uncharted and Last of us, among other things. as far as I have experienced - PC has no aim assist, relying entirely on precise mouse aiming which can and does add to the skill gap.
in any case timing trick is indeed tricky. timing abilities to fire just so, while maintaining aim, WHILE dealing with dodging out of bad, while often times dealing with latency of 200 or more. for some of us its ... too tricky.
Yes. I am, on Xbox. But I started with beta on PC watching (and playing with) my boyfriend.
There is 'Tab' for soft lock targeting on PC. You can also lower your mouse sensitivity to make micro movements more manageable.
With the console version, the hit box got smaller with the Hist dlc and aiming became flakier because of it (probably true for PC too). However, you can soft target by holding down the right analogue stick, which puts a highlight around the target -- I don't use this because the cross-heir is more reliable and immediate. Enemies still pass in and out of it, and there is no jitter with the camera realigning; so I'm assuming any auto-lock, aim assist is minimal... but I could be wrong, my reticule certainly does not lock onto other players as they bounce about my screen...Edited by mairwen85 on January 21, 2019 3:29PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.
sigh. I mean I'm not surprised that you are not getting it, but.. you are not getting it. knowing rotation =/= being able to execute it. especially in ESO that doesn't have tab targeting, has this mess of a system called LA weaving/animation canceling in addition to bar swapping. oh and latency. latency messes you up in this game in a way that it doesn't in other mmos...
I just... there is this russian saying that roughly translates as "someone with full belly will never understand someone who is starving" I feel like it applies here.
and you know the irony here, is for all this "you have to be social, its an MMO" admonitions from all these people, you all are also perfectly ok with kicking people out of groups if they don;'t perform to your specifications, forgetting that those people are PEOPLE, they are someone's friends, they are probably people in this thread and others like it. they could be (and often are) perfectly nice people that just happen not to be god's gift to gaming. off with their heads! /slam the kick button
I do get it, you don't. I was new, and I'm a way better player than I was back then. If you get kicked then accept it. I'm not about to be punished and have to sit through a miserable dungeon because you can't better yourself. Nope.
you don't get it. I'm a better player then i used to be as well. I didn't used to be able to solo early normal dungeons or those 2 craglorn story quests that are group based. now I can. however, personal improvement =/= enough for ever growing demands of the the new content, especially with people like YOU.
I'm sorry people like YOU whine about wanting stuff easier.
I'm sorry people like YOU are bound and determined to exclude us instead of us getting a gameplay mode that will get us out of your oh so touchy hair.
that said, and this is NOT a reply to you, but rather in general
on one shots. it has occurred to me that one shot mechanics exist BECAUSE of high end players. becasue you see, anything that is NOT a one shot? can be brute forced with sufficiently high dps/healing. a mechanic where missing an interrupt, not breaking free, or not moving out of the danger zone - heals a boss? doesn't matter, cause you deal more damage faster than the boss heals. a mechanic where you are damaged a lot, but not quite killed? healer will pull you through, compensate for you not moving and parsing instead. same for not blocking, or not cleansing or any number of things. I thought that maybe damage reflect is an exception, but honestly - its the exception that proves the rule, becasue for a high damage player, ignored damage reflect mechanic IS a one shot.
and so we have one shot mechanics left and right, and becasue high end players have faster reaction times - we have those mechanics fire off very quickly.
personal anecdote. I tried tanking vet cradle of shadows once. we did fine until we got to that boss in a dark room with braziers. there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death. so what I had to do, is find her, get close enough for much charge to work, charge her and bash her - before the cast finishes. and I failed every single time by being just a second too slow. because my reflexes are not perfect, becasue my aiming is not perfect. I understood the mechanic. I made an effort to execute the mechanic,. but I wasn't fast enough to do it.
but you say, dps with, I think its crushing shock? destro staff ability with morph that does interrupts - could do it! we didn't have one in a group, cause we formed a group on a basis of people we wanted to be IN the group, healer didn't have one, dps were stam. so that interrupt HAD to be on me. and I couldn't do it. boo for me, right? git gud?? git faster? I can't. as I age I will ONLY get slower.
meanwhile... imperial prison... planar inhibitor... supposed to be a mechanic heavy fight. and it kinda is, unless you are high end player with sufficiently high enough dps to brute force it. i did it once in a group with sufficiently high dps. we just ignored any and all mechanics, stacked on her and burned her before she went into her next phase, while I spammed healing springs and shards on a group. for normal people? that is NOT how that fight goes.
and so we have one shots. and higher and higher dps requirements. and more and more people - get left in a dust as a result, EVEN ON NORMAL. but hey, that's not a problem we should just... git gud. ughEdited by Linaleah on January 21, 2019 2:43PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***8 -
TiaFrye✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't get why are so many (not everyone, but many) opposing people in this thread acts like someone who in reality simply wants to experience the story their way, in piece, or with their friends-casuals (which is group, no matter how bad is this group) and therefore asks ZOS not to tangle them in the content they don't enjoy (not can't do, everything is possible with a lot of time invested, but NOT ENJOY) made this thread to steal or devalue the other, high-end player's achievements? Why are you insists on that when no one is targeting vet, hm, your skins and personalities? We're asking for normal mode to be NORMAL. Not a training field for vets, but normal dungeon with toned down mechanics like it was before in same DLC dungeons. Just not like the last bunch that scared the shite out of us.
You're good at this game, gratz. Does this gives you a card blanche to be mean to others, who ended up in situation when they are forced to do what they've never done before? No.
You're good at playing and you enjoy challenge, we get it. But some of us enjoy story and it's now locked behind the content not so many of us enjoy just because ZOS need to sell their dungeons. We have every right to be upset and angry.
And they say that this community is amazing. Right. Amazingly trained to find a person to mock for whatever reason.7 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭The newer dungeons all seem to employ the same gimic. One I haven’t seen since the days of Everquest.
Developer, “Hmmm in test runs they blast right through this stuff. What should we do?”
Developer2, “GIVE YARD TRASH ONE SHOT MECHANICS!”
no no no Everquest was a vastly different game. dungeons were open not locked fourman linear designs. you could duo tons of stuff and there were multiple routes to take, camps to spawn duungeons were far far larger and generaly better experience then in the modern corporate MMO BS , and in some ways a far superior itemization and game design. One shot mechanics are a cheap way for zos to hide the lack of any diversity in its combat. its all based on DPS games like EQ 2 and previous geneerations had far more going on in combat then zos does. True CC ,Helaing and far more tanking mechanics then this so called action based mechanics.id prefer lareger groups and more class diversity and smoe thing more then stack and burn the trash and avoid red puddles.0 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.
sigh. I mean I'm not surprised that you are not getting it, but.. you are not getting it. knowing rotation =/= being able to execute it. especially in ESO that doesn't have tab targeting, has this mess of a system called LA weaving/animation canceling in addition to bar swapping. oh and latency. latency messes you up in this game in a way that it doesn't in other mmos...
I just... there is this russian saying that roughly translates as "someone with full belly will never understand someone who is starving" I feel like it applies here.
and you know the irony here, is for all this "you have to be social, its an MMO" admonitions from all these people, you all are also perfectly ok with kicking people out of groups if they don;'t perform to your specifications, forgetting that those people are PEOPLE, they are someone's friends, they are probably people in this thread and others like it. they could be (and often are) perfectly nice people that just happen not to be god's gift to gaming. off with their heads! /slam the kick button
I do get it, you don't. I was new, and I'm a way better player than I was back then. If you get kicked then accept it. I'm not about to be punished and have to sit through a miserable dungeon because you can't better yourself. Nope.
you don't get it. I'm a better player then i used to be as well. I didn't used to be able to solo early normal dungeons or those 2 craglorn story quests that are group based. now I can. however, personal improvement =/= enough for ever growing demands of the the new content, especially with people like YOU.
I'm sorry people like YOU whine about wanting stuff easier.
personal anecdote. I tried tanking vet cradle of shadows once. we did fine until we got to that boss in a dark room with braziers. there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death. so what I had to do, is find her, get close enough for much charge to work, charge her and bash her - before the cast finishes. and I failed every single time by being just a second too slow. because my reflexes are not perfect, becasue my aiming is not perfect. I understood the mechanic. I made an effort to execute the mechanic,. but I wasn't fast enough to do it.
but you say, dps with, I think its crushing shock? destro staff ability with morph that does interrupts - could do it! we didn't have one in a group, cause we formed a group on a basis of people we wanted to be IN the group, healer didn't have one, dps were stam. so that interrupt HAD to be on me. and I couldn't do it. boo for me, right? git gud?? git faster? I can't. as I age I will ONLY get slower.
In all fairness, that attack is a very basic L2P: if you cannot interrupt it then you block it, and blocking is a basic response that all players should know by the time they take the training wheels off in NORMAL dungeons, let alone by the time they are thinking about vets.
All you've really done with your outburst, is underline the problem here: Players who do not take the time to learn basic game abilities, diving into certain content then QQing the game is too hard, rather than considering that they perhaps have not learned the basics.
Anyone who cannot block by the time they are at the level required to enter vCoS is a bad player, there's not really any other way to say that. It's a bit like you asking if you can drive my Porsche on a track day, then halfway through the first lap you tell me you've not passed your basic road driving test.
Edited by FlyingSwan on January 21, 2019 3:13PM1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't get why are so many (not everyone, but many) opposing people in this thread acts like someone who in reality simply wants to experience the story their way, in piece, or with their friends-casuals (which is group, no matter how bad is this group) and therefore asks ZOS not to tangle them in the content they don't enjoy (not can't do, everything is possible with a lot of time invested, but NOT ENJOY) made this thread to steal or devalue the other, high-end player's achievements? Why are you insists on that when no one is targeting vet, hm, your skins and personalities? We're asking for normal mode to be NORMAL. Not a training field for vets, but normal dungeon with toned down mechanics like it was before in same DLC dungeons. Just not like the last bunch that scared the shite out of us.
You're good at this game, gratz. Does this gives you a card blanche to be mean to others, who ended up in situation when they are forced to do what they've never done before? No.
You're good at playing and you enjoy challenge, we get it. But some of us enjoy story and it's now locked behind the content not so many of us enjoy just because ZOS need to sell their dungeons. We have every right to be upset and angry.
And they say that this community is amazing. Right. Amazingly trained to find a person to mock for whatever reason.
Woah! Hold on a second... let's back this up. No need to get overly sensitive now. I'm not mocking in any of my posts, despite my first entry on this thread being labelled as hate speech
You need to realize that by design the game is intended against an escalating difficulty, hence the battle levelling -- you literally get weaker the more you level unless you keep up with your gear and skill usage. Content unlocks for you as you progress to level 50; this content is intended for players around the level that content is unlocked. Past 50, and into champion, the game content then scales to CP160, after that point it's considered you are past the point of hand holding.
As I said in a previous post, dungeon design has also evolved with the game and dungeons are released against a similar escalating difficulty -- now, I also agree that can be toned down, but also believe you need to provide feedback and reasoning that elucidates what exactly is so difficult. Look back, you'll see me attempt to capture that detail for my own understanding. See how we actually got to the crux of what some players deem "difficult" to mean. That opens a subject to discussion; a rant without substance does not.
I don't feel anyone requesting simplification of content to be at my personal detriment, but I do feel more than just "I can't do it -- it's too hard!" is needed, especially when there are many players that don't experience the difficulty as you do, or who have been able to overcome it with effort and time.
This is not an attack on you. Just as threads like this are not an attack on me or the community.Edited by mairwen85 on January 21, 2019 3:07PM2 -
Stratloc✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
They bought it because it was an Elder Scrolls title, WHICH BY THE WAY was single player for years.FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
LOL, and those people bought an MMO because....? I suppose the entire game design is wrong. it can't be that a few people are too dim to realise than a massively multiplayer game might just require playing with other players.
I seriously wonder how such people manage to get out of bed without somehow inflicting a mortal injury on themselves.
Ah I see, so they all failed to realise the significance of the word 'online' in the title, 'Elder Scrolls Online'. One rather hopes they don't get similarly perplexed when faced with the terms, 'walk' and 'don't walk' at the crosswalk, could get messy.
I've owned every TES title since Arena, but upon reading the word 'Online', I was immediately struck with a sneaking suspicion that this might be an online game requiring interaction with other players. Call me Inspector Clueso if you will, for perhaps I have a knack for sniffing out these normally impossible to discern hidden details of the written word.
I'm not advocating any side in this matter, but to be fair, a lot of people play MMOs for the sheer size and scope and feeling of being in a live world, though not necessarily interacting a whole lot with other players. Still the other players contribute to the environment and the playing experience as a whole. This is something you cannot replicate in single player games.4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.
sigh. I mean I'm not surprised that you are not getting it, but.. you are not getting it. knowing rotation =/= being able to execute it. especially in ESO that doesn't have tab targeting, has this mess of a system called LA weaving/animation canceling in addition to bar swapping. oh and latency. latency messes you up in this game in a way that it doesn't in other mmos...
I just... there is this russian saying that roughly translates as "someone with full belly will never understand someone who is starving" I feel like it applies here.
and you know the irony here, is for all this "you have to be social, its an MMO" admonitions from all these people, you all are also perfectly ok with kicking people out of groups if they don;'t perform to your specifications, forgetting that those people are PEOPLE, they are someone's friends, they are probably people in this thread and others like it. they could be (and often are) perfectly nice people that just happen not to be god's gift to gaming. off with their heads! /slam the kick button
I do get it, you don't. I was new, and I'm a way better player than I was back then. If you get kicked then accept it. I'm not about to be punished and have to sit through a miserable dungeon because you can't better yourself. Nope.
you don't get it. I'm a better player then i used to be as well. I didn't used to be able to solo early normal dungeons or those 2 craglorn story quests that are group based. now I can. however, personal improvement =/= enough for ever growing demands of the the new content, especially with people like YOU.
I'm sorry people like YOU whine about wanting stuff easier.
personal anecdote. I tried tanking vet cradle of shadows once. we did fine until we got to that boss in a dark room with braziers. there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death. so what I had to do, is find her, get close enough for much charge to work, charge her and bash her - before the cast finishes. and I failed every single time by being just a second too slow. because my reflexes are not perfect, becasue my aiming is not perfect. I understood the mechanic. I made an effort to execute the mechanic,. but I wasn't fast enough to do it.
but you say, dps with, I think its crushing shock? destro staff ability with morph that does interrupts - could do it! we didn't have one in a group, cause we formed a group on a basis of people we wanted to be IN the group, healer didn't have one, dps were stam. so that interrupt HAD to be on me. and I couldn't do it. boo for me, right? git gud?? git faster? I can't. as I age I will ONLY get slower.
In all fairness, that attack is a very basic L2P: if you cannot interrupt it then you block it, and blocking is a basic response that all players should know by the time they take the training wheels off in NORMAL dungeons, let alone by the time they are thinking about vets.
All you've really done with your outburst, is underline the problem here: Players who do not take the time to learn basic game abilities, diving into certain content then QQing the game is too hard, rather than considering that they perhaps have not learned the basics.
Anyone who cannot block by the time they are at the level required to enter vCoS is a bad player, there's not really any other way to say that. It's a bit like you asking if you can drive my Porsche on a track day, then halfway through the first lap you tell me you've not passed your basic road driving test.
ffs. how. HOW do you keep missing the "not quickly enough" part?
I can block and I can bash and I can switch targets and I can aim.. eventually. this is not a matter of understanding. this is a matter of quick enough EXECUTION.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just pulled normal scalecaller for daily normal.
Myself, level 13, a cp 214 and a cp 106 cleared in 30minutes.
Normal doesnt have to mean easy, vet dlc are not trial difficulty, but yes they are going to require each player has a decent build and know what they are expected to do
Just because you can use medium armor with a lightning staff and 2h to heal normal fungal grotto 1 doesnt mean thats the benchmark.
All normal dungeons are quite doable with any semi decent groupTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.2 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭To all of these folks that keep using MMO to try and win their argument of what this game is supposed to be, maybe I need to re-tell the story of How I got invited to Beta and also became one of the first 500 or so original full time beta testers when everyone else was playing weekends.
I saw an Xbox commercial that showed 1st person view play from (I think) E3. I liked what I saw and investigated it and found out it was an MMO and that they had a Beta application available. I filled the application out as a joke and told them I had no intention of ever playing this game, Unless they proved me wrong,,,,, I had an invitation within a week. That was at a time when Every MMO player was trying to get into Beta and had been trying for months and some up to a year. I also received a first round invite to The Full time beta, probably because I did my job and filled out the Weekend Beta reports honestly and found bugs that MMO players would miss or I gave suggestions of what felt different from a Single players perspective that or they simply wanted to see how someone like me would play it.
Tell me again how this game was not meant for folks like us.
No one is asking to change Vet Modes or Hard modes, Some are asking for Normal mode to be at the level the Starting Group Dungeons are and there are others that are asking for an easier mode because they can't even do those "Solo". Why Solo you ask, because even though they have grown to like the living world that an MMO brings, they either don't want to put up with the rudeness playing in a random group brings (proof can be found in threads like these), or they don't like feeling like a burden to other players.
Up till now the stories have been side stories and these folks have all but avoided them. Sure we miss some story content, but not part of the Main story. Having Abnur Tharn makes this a continuation of the Main Story and folks can't avoid this content anymore. If they are forced to, they will either skip it and start loosing interest, or ignore it all together and maybe be less inclined to buy rest of this years content.
I would almost bet if ZOS added a Story mode ( Sub CP level Solo difficulty) to these Group Dungeons, not only would they get the sales ZOS is attempting to get, but they would also see an uptick in previous DLC sales. My personal opinion is that they should have Overland (Delve) quality drops and still get the skill point for this level of Dungeon as they still take time to complete.
I'm gonna wait till I play it on PTS to give my final thoughts on this though. At this point, it may be worrying about nothing on my part, but I'm sure not for others.
Edit: I continue to play the game because they proved me wrong Edited by Casdha on January 21, 2019 3:37PMProud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%11 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.
sigh. I mean I'm not surprised that you are not getting it, but.. you are not getting it. knowing rotation =/= being able to execute it. especially in ESO that doesn't have tab targeting, has this mess of a system called LA weaving/animation canceling in addition to bar swapping. oh and latency. latency messes you up in this game in a way that it doesn't in other mmos...
I just... there is this russian saying that roughly translates as "someone with full belly will never understand someone who is starving" I feel like it applies here.
and you know the irony here, is for all this "you have to be social, its an MMO" admonitions from all these people, you all are also perfectly ok with kicking people out of groups if they don;'t perform to your specifications, forgetting that those people are PEOPLE, they are someone's friends, they are probably people in this thread and others like it. they could be (and often are) perfectly nice people that just happen not to be god's gift to gaming. off with their heads! /slam the kick button
I do get it, you don't. I was new, and I'm a way better player than I was back then. If you get kicked then accept it. I'm not about to be punished and have to sit through a miserable dungeon because you can't better yourself. Nope.
you don't get it. I'm a better player then i used to be as well. I didn't used to be able to solo early normal dungeons or those 2 craglorn story quests that are group based. now I can. however, personal improvement =/= enough for ever growing demands of the the new content, especially with people like YOU.
I'm sorry people like YOU whine about wanting stuff easier.
personal anecdote. I tried tanking vet cradle of shadows once. we did fine until we got to that boss in a dark room with braziers. there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death. so what I had to do, is find her, get close enough for much charge to work, charge her and bash her - before the cast finishes. and I failed every single time by being just a second too slow. because my reflexes are not perfect, becasue my aiming is not perfect. I understood the mechanic. I made an effort to execute the mechanic,. but I wasn't fast enough to do it.
but you say, dps with, I think its crushing shock? destro staff ability with morph that does interrupts - could do it! we didn't have one in a group, cause we formed a group on a basis of people we wanted to be IN the group, healer didn't have one, dps were stam. so that interrupt HAD to be on me. and I couldn't do it. boo for me, right? git gud?? git faster? I can't. as I age I will ONLY get slower.
In all fairness, that attack is a very basic L2P: if you cannot interrupt it then you block it, and blocking is a basic response that all players should know by the time they take the training wheels off in NORMAL dungeons, let alone by the time they are thinking about vets.
All you've really done with your outburst, is underline the problem here: Players who do not take the time to learn basic game abilities, diving into certain content then QQing the game is too hard, rather than considering that they perhaps have not learned the basics.
Anyone who cannot block by the time they are at the level required to enter vCoS is a bad player, there's not really any other way to say that. It's a bit like you asking if you can drive my Porsche on a track day, then halfway through the first lap you tell me you've not passed your basic road driving test.
ffs. how. HOW do you keep missing the "not quickly enough" part?
I can block and I can bash and I can switch targets and I can aim.. eventually. this is not a matter of understanding. this is a matter of quick enough EXECUTION.
Nope, your original post says, " there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death", but that is not true, the attack can be blocked, which is a basic ability taught in the tutorial. It's not even a fast block because you see her very long tell and block when you realise you won't be able to interrupt in time. She charges up her attack for 5 seconds or more, so there's no rapid reaction time needed, unless you call 5 seconds rapid.FlyingSwan wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
They bought it because it was an Elder Scrolls title, WHICH BY THE WAY was single player for years.FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
LOL, and those people bought an MMO because....? I suppose the entire game design is wrong. it can't be that a few people are too dim to realise than a massively multiplayer game might just require playing with other players.
I seriously wonder how such people manage to get out of bed without somehow inflicting a mortal injury on themselves.
Ah I see, so they all failed to realise the significance of the word 'online' in the title, 'Elder Scrolls Online'. One rather hopes they don't get similarly perplexed when faced with the terms, 'walk' and 'don't walk' at the crosswalk, could get messy.
I've owned every TES title since Arena, but upon reading the word 'Online', I was immediately struck with a sneaking suspicion that this might be an online game requiring interaction with other players. Call me Inspector Clueso if you will, for perhaps I have a knack for sniffing out these normally impossible to discern hidden details of the written word.
I'm not advocating any side in this matter, but to be fair, a lot of people play MMOs for the sheer size and scope and feeling of being in a live world, though not necessarily interacting a whole lot with other players. Still the other players contribute to the environment and the playing experience as a whole. This is something you cannot replicate in single player games.
One of the few valid points made in a thread full of drivel. I personally think the game responds very well to that thinking, all the overland stuff is single player, there's a single player arena (which I cannot complete BTW, but I accept others can), and then there is a very small sliver of group content.1 -
TiaFrye✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wasn't talking about you specifically, @mairwen85 but rather about people who pop up, says git gud u whiners, and doesn't have any suggestions whatsoever. You're actually have a bunch of nice ideas on how to get situation on the right place and i'm thankful for that.
Let me hop into the story.
The thing is some people can do DLC dungeons, some don't. It's okay. With some effort they'll be able eventually.
I've started my path to "git good" last summer when someone actually had their time and tried to help me with skills, sets, etc. I eventually will find a group I'll walk through these new dungeons with before Elsweyr hits the fan, because people say i'm natural at healing. I'll screen cap all the dialogue and will get the needed progression on the story on my main toon. And this is important - to be able to progress in story on a toon who I consider my canon protagonist. I have other toons for doing dungeons in order to preform better, but since it's a story I'm here for, I have to do it with my protagonist.
But some people will not have even this option. And that's why I'm here, trying to be vocal. Like people who's like some challenge was vocal and got their stuff despite being a minority. I can skip doing MHK and read up it's lore on UESP, but when it comes to your protagonist, it's personal. Many people like me don't even have their "canon character" dressed up in sets and they have skills that suits them, not some Alcast bulid. And it was okay for you to play however you wanted, how game devs was encouraging these people to do. Until one day they've realized that dungeons sells bad and majority of players not doing them. And now you have to take your protagonist, tailored with love and attention to their personalities, not some meta, and threw them into possibly another MHK because if you don't do that, you will not be at the side of Abnur Tharn in that trailer-scene. And for some people this is a tragedy and treachery from the side of ZOS.
That's why we ask what we ask. Not because we are whiners, not because we can't do something with lack of skill. But because we want immersion we had not so long ago. And least ZOS can do in this situation is maintain new dungeons in true normal mode.Edited by TiaFrye on January 21, 2019 3:51PM8 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.
sigh. I mean I'm not surprised that you are not getting it, but.. you are not getting it. knowing rotation =/= being able to execute it. especially in ESO that doesn't have tab targeting, has this mess of a system called LA weaving/animation canceling in addition to bar swapping. oh and latency. latency messes you up in this game in a way that it doesn't in other mmos...
I just... there is this russian saying that roughly translates as "someone with full belly will never understand someone who is starving" I feel like it applies here.
and you know the irony here, is for all this "you have to be social, its an MMO" admonitions from all these people, you all are also perfectly ok with kicking people out of groups if they don;'t perform to your specifications, forgetting that those people are PEOPLE, they are someone's friends, they are probably people in this thread and others like it. they could be (and often are) perfectly nice people that just happen not to be god's gift to gaming. off with their heads! /slam the kick button
I do get it, you don't. I was new, and I'm a way better player than I was back then. If you get kicked then accept it. I'm not about to be punished and have to sit through a miserable dungeon because you can't better yourself. Nope.
you don't get it. I'm a better player then i used to be as well. I didn't used to be able to solo early normal dungeons or those 2 craglorn story quests that are group based. now I can. however, personal improvement =/= enough for ever growing demands of the the new content, especially with people like YOU.
I'm sorry people like YOU whine about wanting stuff easier.
personal anecdote. I tried tanking vet cradle of shadows once. we did fine until we got to that boss in a dark room with braziers. there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death. so what I had to do, is find her, get close enough for much charge to work, charge her and bash her - before the cast finishes. and I failed every single time by being just a second too slow. because my reflexes are not perfect, becasue my aiming is not perfect. I understood the mechanic. I made an effort to execute the mechanic,. but I wasn't fast enough to do it.
but you say, dps with, I think its crushing shock? destro staff ability with morph that does interrupts - could do it! we didn't have one in a group, cause we formed a group on a basis of people we wanted to be IN the group, healer didn't have one, dps were stam. so that interrupt HAD to be on me. and I couldn't do it. boo for me, right? git gud?? git faster? I can't. as I age I will ONLY get slower.
In all fairness, that attack is a very basic L2P: if you cannot interrupt it then you block it, and blocking is a basic response that all players should know by the time they take the training wheels off in NORMAL dungeons, let alone by the time they are thinking about vets.
All you've really done with your outburst, is underline the problem here: Players who do not take the time to learn basic game abilities, diving into certain content then QQing the game is too hard, rather than considering that they perhaps have not learned the basics.
Anyone who cannot block by the time they are at the level required to enter vCoS is a bad player, there's not really any other way to say that. It's a bit like you asking if you can drive my Porsche on a track day, then halfway through the first lap you tell me you've not passed your basic road driving test.
ffs. how. HOW do you keep missing the "not quickly enough" part?
I can block and I can bash and I can switch targets and I can aim.. eventually. this is not a matter of understanding. this is a matter of quick enough EXECUTION.
Nope, your original post says, " there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death", but that is not true, the attack can be blocked, which is a basic ability taught in the tutorial. It's not even a fast block because you see her very long tell and block when you realise you won't be able to interrupt in time. She charges up her attack for 5 seconds or more, so there's no rapid reaction time needed, unless you call 5 seconds rapid.FlyingSwan wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
They bought it because it was an Elder Scrolls title, WHICH BY THE WAY was single player for years.FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
LOL, and those people bought an MMO because....? I suppose the entire game design is wrong. it can't be that a few people are too dim to realise than a massively multiplayer game might just require playing with other players.
I seriously wonder how such people manage to get out of bed without somehow inflicting a mortal injury on themselves.
Ah I see, so they all failed to realise the significance of the word 'online' in the title, 'Elder Scrolls Online'. One rather hopes they don't get similarly perplexed when faced with the terms, 'walk' and 'don't walk' at the crosswalk, could get messy.
I've owned every TES title since Arena, but upon reading the word 'Online', I was immediately struck with a sneaking suspicion that this might be an online game requiring interaction with other players. Call me Inspector Clueso if you will, for perhaps I have a knack for sniffing out these normally impossible to discern hidden details of the written word.
I'm not advocating any side in this matter, but to be fair, a lot of people play MMOs for the sheer size and scope and feeling of being in a live world, though not necessarily interacting a whole lot with other players. Still the other players contribute to the environment and the playing experience as a whole. This is something you cannot replicate in single player games.
One of the few valid points made in a thread full of drivel. I personally think the game responds very well to that thinking, all the overland stuff is single player, there's a single player arena (which I cannot complete BTW, but I accept others can), and then there is a very small sliver of group content.
what I have been told is that I cannot block it, I have to interrupt it.
and even so, half the time I hit block when block is required and apparently becasue I hit it one second too late, even if I hold it through attack firing (in other content) i.. still get hit? maybe its latency. maybe its the actualy window for block. maybe its something, else but the fact remains that sometimes my block goes through and sometimes - it does not.
and again that point you just said valid? i have said that this is the reason why players who prefer soloing ENJOY PLAYING AN MMO ANYWAYS. I have litteraly said as much, but becasue I also bring up the issues some people me included, may have with combat in this game, which reduces our enjoyment of group content? that point gets ignored. because you are SO STUCK in L2P mode, you cannot see even a little bit past that.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And now you have to take your protagonist, tailored with love and attention to their personalities, not some meta, and threw them into possibly another MHK because if you don't do that, you will not be at the side of Abnur Tharn in that trailer-scene. And for some people this is a tragedy and treachery from the side of ZOS.
This, exactly.
I don't care if I miss out on some standalone story in, say, Wolfhunter or Horns of the Reach. I care that ZOS are hyping up this year long arc of interconnected story and at the same time saying that you'll miss half of it if you're no good at dungeons, and gating a popular character like Abnur behind it just rubs salt into the wound.11 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.
sigh. I mean I'm not surprised that you are not getting it, but.. you are not getting it. knowing rotation =/= being able to execute it. especially in ESO that doesn't have tab targeting, has this mess of a system called LA weaving/animation canceling in addition to bar swapping. oh and latency. latency messes you up in this game in a way that it doesn't in other mmos...
I just... there is this russian saying that roughly translates as "someone with full belly will never understand someone who is starving" I feel like it applies here.
and you know the irony here, is for all this "you have to be social, its an MMO" admonitions from all these people, you all are also perfectly ok with kicking people out of groups if they don;'t perform to your specifications, forgetting that those people are PEOPLE, they are someone's friends, they are probably people in this thread and others like it. they could be (and often are) perfectly nice people that just happen not to be god's gift to gaming. off with their heads! /slam the kick button
I do get it, you don't. I was new, and I'm a way better player than I was back then. If you get kicked then accept it. I'm not about to be punished and have to sit through a miserable dungeon because you can't better yourself. Nope.
you don't get it. I'm a better player then i used to be as well. I didn't used to be able to solo early normal dungeons or those 2 craglorn story quests that are group based. now I can. however, personal improvement =/= enough for ever growing demands of the the new content, especially with people like YOU.
I'm sorry people like YOU whine about wanting stuff easier.
personal anecdote. I tried tanking vet cradle of shadows once. we did fine until we got to that boss in a dark room with braziers. there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death. so what I had to do, is find her, get close enough for much charge to work, charge her and bash her - before the cast finishes. and I failed every single time by being just a second too slow. because my reflexes are not perfect, becasue my aiming is not perfect. I understood the mechanic. I made an effort to execute the mechanic,. but I wasn't fast enough to do it.
but you say, dps with, I think its crushing shock? destro staff ability with morph that does interrupts - could do it! we didn't have one in a group, cause we formed a group on a basis of people we wanted to be IN the group, healer didn't have one, dps were stam. so that interrupt HAD to be on me. and I couldn't do it. boo for me, right? git gud?? git faster? I can't. as I age I will ONLY get slower.
In all fairness, that attack is a very basic L2P: if you cannot interrupt it then you block it, and blocking is a basic response that all players should know by the time they take the training wheels off in NORMAL dungeons, let alone by the time they are thinking about vets.
All you've really done with your outburst, is underline the problem here: Players who do not take the time to learn basic game abilities, diving into certain content then QQing the game is too hard, rather than considering that they perhaps have not learned the basics.
Anyone who cannot block by the time they are at the level required to enter vCoS is a bad player, there's not really any other way to say that. It's a bit like you asking if you can drive my Porsche on a track day, then halfway through the first lap you tell me you've not passed your basic road driving test.
ffs. how. HOW do you keep missing the "not quickly enough" part?
I can block and I can bash and I can switch targets and I can aim.. eventually. this is not a matter of understanding. this is a matter of quick enough EXECUTION.
Nope, your original post says, " there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death", but that is not true, the attack can be blocked, which is a basic ability taught in the tutorial. It's not even a fast block because you see her very long tell and block when you realise you won't be able to interrupt in time. She charges up her attack for 5 seconds or more, so there's no rapid reaction time needed, unless you call 5 seconds rapid.FlyingSwan wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
They bought it because it was an Elder Scrolls title, WHICH BY THE WAY was single player for years.FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
LOL, and those people bought an MMO because....? I suppose the entire game design is wrong. it can't be that a few people are too dim to realise than a massively multiplayer game might just require playing with other players.
I seriously wonder how such people manage to get out of bed without somehow inflicting a mortal injury on themselves.
Ah I see, so they all failed to realise the significance of the word 'online' in the title, 'Elder Scrolls Online'. One rather hopes they don't get similarly perplexed when faced with the terms, 'walk' and 'don't walk' at the crosswalk, could get messy.
I've owned every TES title since Arena, but upon reading the word 'Online', I was immediately struck with a sneaking suspicion that this might be an online game requiring interaction with other players. Call me Inspector Clueso if you will, for perhaps I have a knack for sniffing out these normally impossible to discern hidden details of the written word.
I'm not advocating any side in this matter, but to be fair, a lot of people play MMOs for the sheer size and scope and feeling of being in a live world, though not necessarily interacting a whole lot with other players. Still the other players contribute to the environment and the playing experience as a whole. This is something you cannot replicate in single player games.
One of the few valid points made in a thread full of drivel. I personally think the game responds very well to that thinking, all the overland stuff is single player, there's a single player arena (which I cannot complete BTW, but I accept others can), and then there is a very small sliver of group content.
what I have been told is that I cannot block it, I have to interrupt it.
and even so, half the time I hit block when block is required and apparently becasue I hit it one second too late, even if I hold it through attack firing (in other content) i.. still get hit? maybe its latency. maybe its the actualy window for block. maybe its something, else but the fact remains that sometimes my block goes through and sometimes - it does not.
and again that point you just said valid? i have said that this is the reason why players who prefer soloing ENJOY PLAYING AN MMO ANYWAYS. I have litteraly said as much, but becasue I also bring up the issues some people me included, may have with combat in this game, which reduces our enjoyment of group content? that point gets ignored. because you are SO STUCK in L2P mode, you cannot see even a little bit past that.
Well, whoever told you it MUST be interrupted was wrong, trust me in this, I've run vCoS more times than I've had the proverbial hot dinners, it's one of my personal favourite dungeons. But what you are saying is not only did you not know (and fair enough, we all learn mechs at some point) but the entire team did not know. i.e. you were not prepared. But instead of accepting that you were not prepared you would prefer to have a forum meltdown saying the game design is bad, when the reality is none of you knew how to approach just the second boss and consequently wiped. Furthermore, I suspect you also attempted it on vet before clearing on normal, otherwise I think you'd have twigged that you could block that attack, as the mechanics are the same.
As for the last paragraph in your rant, I addressed that point in the very post you are responding to. To whit; ESO has a wealth of single player content, from faceroll overland questing, to zone bosses (some of which do need you to be in the presence of others but not in a group) to a dedicated arena. So the fact there is a small sliver of content the developer wishes to encourage grouping for, seems entirely reasonable in a multiplayer game. e.g., I cannot complete vMSA but I don't come on here saying the mechanics are too brutal, I simply accept I will likely never complete it and make do without the rewards.
I politely suggest that you are so busy having a forum rant, you aren't paying attention to any viewpoint except your own very narrow one.Edited by FlyingSwan on January 21, 2019 3:59PM1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »FlyingSwan wrote: »FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.
sigh. I mean I'm not surprised that you are not getting it, but.. you are not getting it. knowing rotation =/= being able to execute it. especially in ESO that doesn't have tab targeting, has this mess of a system called LA weaving/animation canceling in addition to bar swapping. oh and latency. latency messes you up in this game in a way that it doesn't in other mmos...
I just... there is this russian saying that roughly translates as "someone with full belly will never understand someone who is starving" I feel like it applies here.
and you know the irony here, is for all this "you have to be social, its an MMO" admonitions from all these people, you all are also perfectly ok with kicking people out of groups if they don;'t perform to your specifications, forgetting that those people are PEOPLE, they are someone's friends, they are probably people in this thread and others like it. they could be (and often are) perfectly nice people that just happen not to be god's gift to gaming. off with their heads! /slam the kick button
I do get it, you don't. I was new, and I'm a way better player than I was back then. If you get kicked then accept it. I'm not about to be punished and have to sit through a miserable dungeon because you can't better yourself. Nope.
you don't get it. I'm a better player then i used to be as well. I didn't used to be able to solo early normal dungeons or those 2 craglorn story quests that are group based. now I can. however, personal improvement =/= enough for ever growing demands of the the new content, especially with people like YOU.
I'm sorry people like YOU whine about wanting stuff easier.
personal anecdote. I tried tanking vet cradle of shadows once. we did fine until we got to that boss in a dark room with braziers. there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death. so what I had to do, is find her, get close enough for much charge to work, charge her and bash her - before the cast finishes. and I failed every single time by being just a second too slow. because my reflexes are not perfect, becasue my aiming is not perfect. I understood the mechanic. I made an effort to execute the mechanic,. but I wasn't fast enough to do it.
but you say, dps with, I think its crushing shock? destro staff ability with morph that does interrupts - could do it! we didn't have one in a group, cause we formed a group on a basis of people we wanted to be IN the group, healer didn't have one, dps were stam. so that interrupt HAD to be on me. and I couldn't do it. boo for me, right? git gud?? git faster? I can't. as I age I will ONLY get slower.
In all fairness, that attack is a very basic L2P: if you cannot interrupt it then you block it, and blocking is a basic response that all players should know by the time they take the training wheels off in NORMAL dungeons, let alone by the time they are thinking about vets.
All you've really done with your outburst, is underline the problem here: Players who do not take the time to learn basic game abilities, diving into certain content then QQing the game is too hard, rather than considering that they perhaps have not learned the basics.
Anyone who cannot block by the time they are at the level required to enter vCoS is a bad player, there's not really any other way to say that. It's a bit like you asking if you can drive my Porsche on a track day, then halfway through the first lap you tell me you've not passed your basic road driving test.
ffs. how. HOW do you keep missing the "not quickly enough" part?
I can block and I can bash and I can switch targets and I can aim.. eventually. this is not a matter of understanding. this is a matter of quick enough EXECUTION.
Nope, your original post says, " there is a part where she teleports across the room and starts a cast that MUST be interrupted, or... death", but that is not true, the attack can be blocked, which is a basic ability taught in the tutorial. It's not even a fast block because you see her very long tell and block when you realise you won't be able to interrupt in time. She charges up her attack for 5 seconds or more, so there's no rapid reaction time needed, unless you call 5 seconds rapid.FlyingSwan wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
They bought it because it was an Elder Scrolls title, WHICH BY THE WAY was single player for years.FlyingSwan wrote: »KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
LOL, and those people bought an MMO because....? I suppose the entire game design is wrong. it can't be that a few people are too dim to realise than a massively multiplayer game might just require playing with other players.
I seriously wonder how such people manage to get out of bed without somehow inflicting a mortal injury on themselves.
Ah I see, so they all failed to realise the significance of the word 'online' in the title, 'Elder Scrolls Online'. One rather hopes they don't get similarly perplexed when faced with the terms, 'walk' and 'don't walk' at the crosswalk, could get messy.
I've owned every TES title since Arena, but upon reading the word 'Online', I was immediately struck with a sneaking suspicion that this might be an online game requiring interaction with other players. Call me Inspector Clueso if you will, for perhaps I have a knack for sniffing out these normally impossible to discern hidden details of the written word.
I'm not advocating any side in this matter, but to be fair, a lot of people play MMOs for the sheer size and scope and feeling of being in a live world, though not necessarily interacting a whole lot with other players. Still the other players contribute to the environment and the playing experience as a whole. This is something you cannot replicate in single player games.
One of the few valid points made in a thread full of drivel. I personally think the game responds very well to that thinking, all the overland stuff is single player, there's a single player arena (which I cannot complete BTW, but I accept others can), and then there is a very small sliver of group content.
what I have been told is that I cannot block it, I have to interrupt it.
and even so, half the time I hit block when block is required and apparently becasue I hit it one second too late, even if I hold it through attack firing (in other content) i.. still get hit? maybe its latency. maybe its the actualy window for block. maybe its something, else but the fact remains that sometimes my block goes through and sometimes - it does not.
and again that point you just said valid? i have said that this is the reason why players who prefer soloing ENJOY PLAYING AN MMO ANYWAYS. I have litteraly said as much, but becasue I also bring up the issues some people me included, may have with combat in this game, which reduces our enjoyment of group content? that point gets ignored. because you are SO STUCK in L2P mode, you cannot see even a little bit past that.
Well, whoever told you it MUST be interrupted was wrong, trust me in this, I've run vCoS more times than I've had the proverbial hot dinners, it's one of my personal favourite dungeons. But what you are saying is not only did you not know (and fair enough, we all learn mechs at some point) but the entire team did not know. i.e. you were not prepared. But instead of accepting that you were not prepared you would prefer to have a forum meltdown saying the game design is bad, when the reality is none of you knew how to approach just the second boss and consequently wiped. Furthermore, I suspect you also attempted it on vet before clearing on normal, otherwise I think you'd have twigged that you could block that attack, as the mechanics are the same. And players diving straight into vet dungeons that they have not yet cleared on normal are a perennial problem in this game, hence you often see requests in this forum for a 'has cleared normal' flag prior to permitting a queue for vet versions.
As for the last paragraph in your rant, I addressed that point in the very post you are responding to. To whit; ESO has a wealth of single player content, from faceroll overland questing, to zone bosses (some of which do need you to be in the presence of others but not in a group) to a dedicated arena. So the fact there is a small sliver of content the developer wishes to encourage grouping for, seems entirely reasonable in a multiplayer game. e.g., I cannot complete vMSA but I don't come on here saying the mechanics are too brutal, I simply accept I will likely never complete it and make do without the rewards.
I politely suggest that you are so busy having a forum rant, you aren't paying attention to any viewpoint except your own very narrow one.
1. i did do that place on normal, just not as a tank, and the person i did it with - interrupted the cast.
2. I'm saying that game design is unforgiving for people who are imperfect. CoS is not so bad, but most recent dungeons have a LOT less margin for error. mechanics fire off faster, etc.
3. I'm not asking for VET content to be made easy. i'm asking for either normal to be more forgiving or for an added mode that allows players to solo through it while actualy getting to enjoy the story instead of rushing past it. especially in dungeons that HAVE a story. I cannot do VMA either. I'm fine with that. I SAID I'm fine with that or black rose prison. and MA especially what set up there is - can be seen solo, becasue its SOLO CONTENT. it took me a while to clear it on normal. but i did it becasue that place actualy saves your progress, so you can learn mechanics and practice them at your own pace, until you get past them. this is NOT something you can do in 4 man dungeons. which are now locking part of the OVERREACHING STORY behind them.
4. solo mode for all dungeons would be beneficial for ALL. why? I brought it up way earlier, and again more recently but... solo mode will allow players to LEARN THE MECHANICS at their pace, without being beholden to a group, or dragged down by a group, or rushed through or kicked before they have a chance to acclimate. some players would move on with more confidence to a group version. some would not, but at least PAID DLC will actualy be of SOME USE FOR THEM.
if these DLC's weren't half the early release content, but rather a part of content updates that include something for solo players and something for the groups? it wouldn't be so bad. if those DLC dungeons didn't hold stories hostage inside them? it wouldn't be so bad.Edited by Linaleah on January 21, 2019 4:10PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What about the players that are "good" enough to do the normal dungeons as they are, but not interested in vet. For everyone that wants them to be brought down to soloable or story only or whatever you want, it's ok to isolate those players?
I would venture to guess that there are significantly more people who get through normals and dlc normals even, than those who can not.
Someone is always going to get the shaft on scaling difficulty, so why not just give you a "story" only mode which allows you to enjoy the environment and the story without having to fight. of course you wouldn't be eligible for the rewards of the dungeon, but you could experience it.
Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
as for any normal dungeon being possible without any light attack weaving. eh. vanilla ones, sure. DLC? only if your group members are compensating.
I have completed all Vet HM content with me + 2 other dps that don't animation cancel or LA weave. If you can beat vet HM on all dungeons than normal is defintiely not required. TBH a lot of the new content isn't even a hard core DPS check <There IS a check, but its not as high as you think>.
March HM? Nope. In fact its more about slotting survival for the hunt. The final burn is easy enough as long as group burns at the right point <Don't drop destros as he charges out or is moving basically>.
Moon hunter HM? The dogs are a DPS check on pounce, but if failed its not like you fail the fight. Dodge when they jump and your fine.. Final burn is more a tank check as dmg is very high, though dmg still help outs.
Fang Lair HM? Unless you can REALLY burn him in 2nd phase you will just train yourself with golems and probably kill someone.
SC HM - This one is a DPS check on frost phase, but can be mitagated with Soul Assault if needed by mag. One tap and they die in about 2 seconds.
And before someone says I run three dps I have done the newer ones with a healer too and two of the same DPS.Edited by karekiz on January 21, 2019 4:36PM1
