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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
New dungeons better be normal
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Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭EphemeraCrawford wrote: »If they didn't lock Story behind Dungeon content none of this would be an issue. Some people don't like the whole Dungeon mechanic, where you're just rushed through the environment with no time to look at where you are. To actually follow the plotline of ESO's 'year long story event' people are going to be forced to do dungeon content. It's a strange design choice.
Very odd0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
Honestly I have to agree with you here. If the Dungeon Pack was just another set of dungeons that was self contained storyline wise. It would be fine for them to be more difficult than normal. But they are introducing a year long story and they shouldnt expect the majority of players to get into difficult dungeons and punish themselves just trying to get to the heart of this Season of the Dragon story.
The absolute vast majority of players will either not have the means to tackle harder content, or the ability to do so. And this will never change. You will never change a very small minority of endgamers into a absolute majority in a casual MMO game. So anyone with the "Git Gud" argument can get bent.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax14 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭Few things here.
First off, normal mode base game dungeons (just my opinion here) should start at CP 160. DLC normal mode should start at CP300, just for the simple fact these are dungeons coming out well after the initial release of the game. This means after almost 5 years, unless you just got the game within the last 6 months, you should have "some" knowledge of your class and mechanics of your avatar and the NPC's your fighting.
DLC's are meant to be harder in normal mode because many players have been around a good while, and if they are going to pay for something (thru ESO plus or crowns or w/e) then they want something a little more challenging for the money. They have grown since the last dungeon's came out. They have done them 100's of times. They want something new, and they want something that isn't going to take 15 minutes to complete. Thereby, waiting for 3 or 6 more months till the next batch comes out.
I am mainly a PvP'er and if anyone has the right to complain it's us. Having to do PvE content where we (or maybe just myself) just don't give a crap about storylines and lore and all that. We want to get the gear that's going to help us kill other players. But ya know what? I HAVE done just about every dungeon in game in one form or another. I've done vMA, vDSA, Trails...all of that to accomplish my goal of having the best gear/tools when it comes to defeating other players.
My point is, if you want the best gear and tools for the job, ya need to work for it. Stop this sissy talk about "Story modes", man-(or woman) up and work for it. Join a guild, make new friends, do stuff together and everyone prospers. It make take you longer? But most of you are saying your "casual" anyway. So what difference does time make? Stop asking to be handed stuff simply because your not able to play as often. It's like asking for more money from your boss and saying "But I can only show up 2 days a week, instead of 5". It's not right. So please stop. Not trying to be elitest here. Just giving the simple facts of life.
Ummmmm....that's what vet mode is for.
1 -
SiAScORCH✭✭✭✭All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.1 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just sharing this here, since this thread is what got me to try it in the first place.
Average Solo players can solo Group Dungeons (Elden Root 1st time run w/story)
which is nice and all... IF DLC dungeons on normal would have the difficulty of dungeons that used to be essentially training dungeons you get when you first leveled up enough to start trying dungeons.
I can solo dungeons with 1 in the title as well. that said, there are plenty of solo players who can't even do that much. should they be locked out of half the story for the next year? becasue remember, dungeon releases are half the content releases we get per year.
This wasn't meant to have anything to do with needing a story or solo mode, I personally agree that they should. This was me finding out if I could do one of these on Normal difficulty as the OP suggested, to my surprise I could. It was also to show the pace I like to check out a story and why a group would never work for Main Story content. Actually I didn't do quite as much looking around because I didn't know how big the file was gonna be once I was finished.Proud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%2 -
Garwulf✭✭✭EphemeraCrawford wrote: »If they didn't lock Story behind Dungeon content none of this would be an issue. Some people don't like the whole Dungeon mechanic, where you're just rushed through the environment with no time to look at where you are. To actually follow the plotline of ESO's 'year long story event' people are going to be forced to do dungeon content. It's a strange design choice.
Very odd
It would only be Odd if it wasn't ZoS behind it. A dungeon requiring a group along with a story line relating to a year long event is as dumb as you can get.Edited by Garwulf on January 20, 2019 7:06AM1 -
Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭EphemeraCrawford wrote: »If they didn't lock Story behind Dungeon content none of this would be an issue. Some people don't like the whole Dungeon mechanic, where you're just rushed through the environment with no time to look at where you are. To actually follow the plotline of ESO's 'year long story event' people are going to be forced to do dungeon content. It's a strange design choice.
Very odd
It would only be Odd if it wasn't ZoS behind it. A dungeon requiring a group along with a story line relating to a year long event is as dumb as you can get.
I mean you’re not wrong4 -
Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
Honestly I have to agree with you here. If the Dungeon Pack was just another set of dungeons that was self contained storyline wise. It would be fine for them to be more difficult than normal. But they are introducing a year long story and they shouldnt expect the majority of players to get into difficult dungeons and punish themselves just trying to get to the heart of this Season of the Dragon story.
The absolute vast majority of players will either not have the means to tackle harder content, or the ability to do so. And this will never change. You will never change a very small minority of endgamers into a absolute majority in a casual MMO game. So anyone with the "Git Gud" argument can get bent.Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne
Honestly I have to agree with you here. If the Dungeon Pack was just another set of dungeons that was self contained storyline wise. It would be fine for them to be more difficult than normal. But they are introducing a year long story and they shouldnt expect the majority of players to get into difficult dungeons and punish themselves just trying to get to the heart of this Season of the Dragon story.
The absolute vast majority of players will either not have the means to tackle harder content, or the ability to do so. And this will never change. You will never change a very small minority of endgamers into a absolute majority in a casual MMO game. So anyone with the "Git Gud" argument can get bent.
Exactly2 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I thought "demand" threads weren't allowed on the forums? Or is it just the pvp related ones?
Regardless they are pretty easy on normal once you and your group know the mechanics. You cannot expect to walk through a dungeon with people who dont know certain mechanics, at least not every dlc dungeon.2 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭Regardless they are pretty easy on normal once you and your group know the mechanics. You cannot expect to walk through a dungeon with people who dont know certain mechanics, at least not every dlc dungeon.
Indeed. ZOS clearly just want to drive people to experience some 4-man content rather than facerolling overland for their story quests. I imagine when this lands the whole hoo-ha will turn out to have been a storm in a teacup as is so typical of game forums.Edited by FlyingSwan on January 20, 2019 10:49AM0 -
KhajiitFelix✭✭✭✭✭All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.Edited by KhajiitFelix on January 20, 2019 10:53AM7 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
Well you are playing an MMO and if you want to do group content and you don’t already have people to do them with. Might be time for you to learn. It ain’t that bad.1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »But what about tryhards that complain the game is so easy?
They can go and play Wildstar.
...oh no, they can't anymore, can they?
Wonder why that is?
94 agrees for the OP - not bad.
Only slightly more than the 2 or 3 the elitists normally get.
The truth is that you need multiple levels in games.
The pros will moan about this, as they like to feel special, but it has been the way of games since they first came into existence and that is for very good reason.
They should never, ever, cut people off from parts of the game.
Especially parts of the game that carry the storyline.
Most of the people playing and paying for this game are not high end, endgame players.
A game should reflect its userbase.Edited by Tigerseye on January 20, 2019 11:01AM11 -
SiAScORCH✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.0 -
rexagamemnon✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hope so. All the dungeon dlc’s difficulty is getting ridiculas. The difficulty on vet modes are getting very hard even for the elite of players. Ive been playing over three years, i have alot of experience and know alot of the mechanics but even knowledge of mechanics are still only so helpful now days with the new dlc dungeons5 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
SiAScORCH✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Why CP 500 specifically?
Its like...a really odd number.2 -
Synnastix✭✭✭✭I hate getting DLC dungeons in a random just because I don’t often have that much time to play uninterrupted. I would rather they at least be sectioned off and designed to take around 20-30 mins to complete. Give me 4 of those instead of 2 x 60 minute runs any day.
Even if one picks up in story where the other leaves off it’s not a bad thing.3 -
SiAScORCH✭✭✭✭All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Why CP 500 specifically?
Its like...a really odd number.
If I see anything under cp300 in a vet, everytime they always have low dps, whether it's because a lack of a build, gear, or rotation, it's always the same. I don't mind if they're lower than that as a healer or tank though.
CP500 means they've likely played enough to use a bit of sense, they know how to play the game and have a decent build or decent gear.
With decent gear, a proper build and a proper rotation you can easily pull 20k. I'm sorry but if somebody pulls under that I'm clicking vote. That means they couldn't bother to do a bit of research.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.Edited by Linaleah on January 21, 2019 2:36AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***12 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭not everyone likes to play in a group.
Not everyone likes to play in a raid, but take WoW ICC/Lich King would have been a reaaaaaal let down if you just killed him by spamming two buttons. Molag bal kinda felt the same way to me. I got there killed him and went. Heh gods hit weaker than a beatle.
I applaud them for pushing more story into harder content.Edited by karekiz on January 21, 2019 2:53AM2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭not everyone likes to play in a group.
Not everyone likes to play in a raid, but take WoW ICC/Lich King would have been a reaaaaaal let down if you just killed him by spamming two buttons. Molag bal kinda felt the same way to me. I got there killed him and went. Heh gods hit weaker than a beatle.
I applaud them for pushing more story into harder content.
oh hey, did you know that wow introduced this thing called LFR? otherwise known as raid finder. where you can do every raid in a game on what amounts to spectator difficulty, thus getting to see the story of those raids without being bombarded with l2p coming from the "leets" ? and did you know that the normal difficulty of wow dungeons is actualy genuinely easy, and rather then making normal dungeons a pain, they instead added this mode called mythic? with its scaling difficulty?
not everyone feels the same way about difficulty. Molag Bal was one of my favorite fights, becasue i actualy felt epic. I actualy felt like yeah.. there is something to this magical Meridia buff, it wasn't just for show. P. S. you didn't kill him. you just weakened him with a help of Meridia.Edited by Linaleah on January 21, 2019 3:00AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***7 -
SiAScORCH✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »All the dungeons out now are easy enough. It's all about learning and understanding mechanics.
For vet DLC dungeons I have simple requirements:
Discord required.
CP500+
Proper build/gear, 25-30k DPS
I've ran them all, no issues the most important thing is having people communicate and actually listen.
Not everyone wants to talk with strangers.
I get that, but I don't trust random people to actually know mechanics and listen. It's much easier to get them to comprehend when you're telling it in their ear vs having to trust they read chat.
talking usually refers to both voice AND text chat. some people sometimes would just rather play on their own.
Sure, and that's why you run into so many issues on vet DLC dungeons. I on the other hand have not.
actualy, i run into issues PUGGING them on NORMAL. WHILE communicating. text is still communication.
every single person who goes "this dungeons are easy" is either playing with a premade group where the know exactly how well their mates are performing WHILE excluding people who are in their view underperforming (which is like... majority of ESO population) and/or are such high performers that they can quite literally compensate for under performing group members.
the rest of us make do with whoever we get, and/or people we like to play with, but that are NOT god's gift to gaming. and herein lays a problem. even on normal DLC dungeons are very VERY unforgiving to such people. forger vet for a moment. NORMAL.
so fine. half the DLC's are useless to us despite a fair chunk of us paying for acess to them via ps plus - so that's half the updates that we don't get to do much with, unless we get lucky and/or have someone take pity on us. but now. NOW they are actualy part of the overreaching story art.
please. for the love of god. STOP with "git gud" just.. stop. its not happening. for a moment instead... just try. just a little bit, TRY to maybe see it from a perspective of someone who is NOT you and doesn't play like you do.
and btw, when I say people who would rather not talk to others, I mean.. they would rather NOT GROUP WITH OTHERS AT ALL.
not everyone likes to play in a group.
P.S. btw... consider for a moment. just for a moment, that its NOT the lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k.
It is lack of research that keeps people from pulling 20k. I can pull 15k on a PvP toon in PvE content and that's not even with proper gear. Research means knowing your rotation, build and gear. Thus lack of rotation = bad dps.2 -
Libonotus✭✭✭✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »
*facepalms* DLC dungeons are easy to you maybe, not to others. I’m actually done repeating myself to people who can’t be bothered to read.8 -
TiaFrye✭✭✭✭✭
✭DLC dungeons are not easy. If you happen to have even one DD in your group who's dps lower than average, you're screwed. But it's not only that. Mechanics gets complicated with each DLC dungeon released. I'm not a fan, but sometimes I have to run these. And in Scalecaller peak, aside from it being tricky with all the poison, I perfectly understand what game wants me to do. In Moon Hunter Keep even effects that showing during the fight are sometimes misleading. When I'd see something crawling on me underground, I will roll dodge without a second though. But when I see vines all over me I automatically trough that I'm already screwed and I will try to break free and you don't need to break free, you need to roll! How crazy is that? I haven't get further than white werewolf with any group I've got, not matter how many times I've read what to do.
Such things keep me away from DLC dungeons.
I understand that s o m e people want challenge, and devs want to show off their skills at making dungeons, but please, PLEASE, for Christ's sake keep normal NORMAL. Even like vanilla II normal, it will be far better than we have now. People won't buy DLC that they can't beat. Putting a story behind a dungeon and forcing players to run them will work for a very small amount of general audience, but most of us boycott it right away.7 -
SiAScORCH✭✭✭✭DLC dungeons are not easy. If you happen to have even one DD in your group who's dps lower than average, you're screwed. But it's not only that. Mechanics gets complicated with each DLC dungeon released. I'm not a fan, but sometimes I have to run these. And in Scalecaller peak, aside from it being tricky with all the poison, I perfectly understand what game wants me to do. In Moon Hunter Keep even effects that showing during the fight are sometimes misleading. When I'd see something crawling on me underground, I will roll dodge without a second though. But when I see vines all over me I automatically trough that I'm already screwed and I will try to break free and you don't need to break free, you need to roll! How crazy is that? I haven't get further than white werewolf with any group I've got, not matter how many times I've read what to do.
Such things keep me away from DLC dungeons.
I understand that s o m e people want challenge, and devs want to show off their skills at making dungeons, but please, PLEASE, for Christ's sake keep normal NORMAL. Even like vanilla II normal, it will be far better than we have now. People won't buy DLC that they can't beat. Putting a story behind a dungeon and forcing players to run them will work for a very small amount of general audience, but most of us boycott it right away.
DLC dungeons aren't hard. If you have 3 other competent people it's easy. I've done no death and speed runs on all the DLC. I quit playing in June of 2016 and came back October of 2018. I adapted perfectly fine.1 -
TiaFrye✭✭✭✭✭
✭DLC dungeons aren't hard. If you have 3 other competent people it's easy. I've done no death and speed runs on all the DLC. I quit playing in June of 2016 and came back October of 2018. I adapted perfectly fine.
You - it's you. Stop "you"ing. Hell, what's a catwalk to you may be not like that for any other person. For an average person you need 2 mil gold to find these "3 other competent people", if u catch my meaning. Competent people usually have premade groups with people they trust and know, they don't want the 5th wheel.
Before Season of Dragon questers was not forced by devs into group content but now it's the case. Just because they desperately want questers to buy dungeons! And they do sold badly. None of CE of dungeon dlcs was never seen back at the crownstore. And if DLC dungeons continue to become more challenging for this small amount of people who like to overcome challenges, can overcome them, for their rest time, a lot of customers will not be happy. They ignored dungeons before, some will rage quit now or lower their loyalty to ZOS. And loyalty brings money. No money - servers will be shut down. It's as simple as that.
There was at least 3 threads about people being scared and confused and I saw only one person in who's offering help. Others will only mock you with "git good", "read the mechanics", "stop crying", "find the good group". It's not quite encouraging when someone gets shamed for their simple desire to continue the story they've been in for a long time.
Edited by TiaFrye on January 21, 2019 9:37AM9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcFzh-R7FXk