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Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

  • KhajiitWarlord
    I would like to point out that the poison/diseased opted racial passives are entirely backwards as far as lore is concerned.

    It would make more sense to me to have argonians opted to poison immunity instead of disease due to the fact Black Marsh is more likely to kill you with poisonous toxins than diseases, so it makes more sense that they'd have built up a genetic immunity to poison rather than disease, if only one of the two. On top of that is the fact they have customs in some parts to purposely poison their young in small amounts to boost that immunity at an individual level. While disease should be included as well to a lesser extent, I'll ignore it for balancing purposes, as these changes are intended for.

    It would also make more sense to me for bosmer to be opted to disease immunity instead of poison immunity. The Green Pact renders nature tamed toward the bosmer people, and thus makes regular poisoning unlikely in their circumstance, at least during the 2nd era. However, due to the cannibalistic customs of bosmer ancestry, often eating the dead of their enemies after war (with no real indication of cooking the meat in their histirical writings), the carrion nature of this custom is likely to impart an immunity to disease over time, especially if the dead were ill before their deaths. Their meat only diet should also somewhat contribute to this to at least a small degree by genetically reducing the threshold of sustainance required to keep the immune system optimal over several centuries. At least theoretically. Practically, probably not. But it still makes more sense than poison immunity.

    Lore-wise, that's just my take on it.


    Otherwise, I'm quite excited for these changes myself. I've been waiting for a long time to get some racial balancing done, so a revamp is something I'd like to give a try. Some of the changes look a bit iffy on paper, but practical testing is the only reliable method to judge them, so I'll hold out until that comes around.

    Nothing really stands out too much on the balance tipping end of the situation for me. Writing all the effects down on paper has revealed a few potential counters to the obvious nerfs and buffs that everyone has been pointing out in the responses.

    As a whole, this seems to effect min/max players negatively and more casual players positively by bringing the ceiling down a bit and bringing the floor up a bit. While I personally think the CP system needs to be reworked to narrow this gap most effectively, at least this is some measure of balance between the worst and the best.

    Again, just my take on these changes as they are written on paper. Only practical testing will prove the differences, so I'm reserving judgement for the moment.
  • Nolic1
    Nolic1
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    "Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%."

    This applies to destruction staff and restoration staff, too, doesn't it?

    Yes it does according to what I have heard.
    Sherman from Sherman's Gaming

    Youtube content creator that is dedicated to the Casual and Roleplay community for News, Lets Talks, Guides, Help and character builds.

    Youtube channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    How is Imperial block cost reduction going to interact with Sturdy and other block cost reductions? I am asking about the placement in block cost formula to determine if this racial passive is significant or another meh-whatever.
  • sneakymitchell
    sneakymitchell
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    Eiagra wrote: »
    Could use a little love. Ask the question: What crafting related benefit could be granted that will always be active? (Refine/deconstruct bonuses? Chance to use fewer resources when crafting/improving?)

    Maybe slower item degradation / lower repair cost?

    Something that always confused me is that Nords and Orcs are for some reason flipped in ESO. Historically in past games and in TES lore, Nords are stronger and more offensive than Orcs, who are more defensively oriented.
    Taking a look at bonuses from Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim:

    Morrowind
    Skills: Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor, Medium Armor, Axe
    Atttributes: Endurance 50, WIllpower 50, Strength 45
    Trait: Resist Magic 25%

    Oblivion
    Skills: Armorer, Block, Blunt, Heavy Armor, Hand to Hand
    Atttributes: Endurance 50, WIllpower 50, Strength 45
    Trait: Resist Magic 25%

    Skyrim
    Skills: Heavy Armor, Block, Enchanting, One-Handed, Smithing, Two-Handed

    Even in ESO, Orcs level heavy armor faster than any other race - yet, with this update, they become more squishy than Dunmer and Khajiit.
    Orcs should be a sturdy race that stands its ground, and when conditions are met, can go into an offensive berserker rage. I don't see this reflected in ESO that well. And while I appreciate the faster sprint speed, it never made any sense for Orcs to have that, as historically they have been the slowest race of all. Bosmer, Dunmer, and Argonians are the fastest.

    I hesitate to make suggestions, as they would probably change too much what Orcs are in ESO. But I don't think it's fair to nerf Orcs' capabilities as tanks so much, and it doesn't make any sense lore-wise.

    Just add 500 or 750 more health and extra stam. Orc players will be happy with that.
    NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
    PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    Eiagra wrote: »
    Could use a little love. Ask the question: What crafting related benefit could be granted that will always be active? (Refine/deconstruct bonuses? Chance to use fewer resources when crafting/improving?)

    Maybe slower item degradation / lower repair cost?

    Something that always confused me is that Nords and Orcs are for some reason flipped in ESO. Historically in past games and in TES lore, Nords are stronger and more offensive than Orcs, who are more defensively oriented.
    Taking a look at bonuses from Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim:

    Morrowind
    Skills: Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor, Medium Armor, Axe
    Atttributes: Endurance 50, WIllpower 50, Strength 45
    Trait: Resist Magic 25%

    Oblivion
    Skills: Armorer, Block, Blunt, Heavy Armor, Hand to Hand
    Atttributes: Endurance 50, WIllpower 50, Strength 45
    Trait: Resist Magic 25%

    Skyrim
    Skills: Heavy Armor, Block, Enchanting, One-Handed, Smithing, Two-Handed

    Even in ESO, Orcs level heavy armor faster than any other race - yet, with this update, they become more squishy than Dunmer and Khajiit.
    Orcs should be a sturdy race that stands its ground, and when conditions are met, can go into an offensive berserker rage. I don't see this reflected in ESO that well. And while I appreciate the faster sprint speed, it never made any sense for Orcs to have that, as historically they have been the slowest race of all. Bosmer, Dunmer, and Argonians are the fastest.

    I hesitate to make suggestions, as they would probably change too much what Orcs are in ESO. But I don't think it's fair to nerf Orcs' capabilities as tanks so much, and it doesn't make any sense lore-wise.

    Just add 500 or 750 more health and extra stam. Orc players will be happy with that.

    I certainly would be. Regardless, I think Orcs deserve another look from the devs, to give them a more concise theme.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • redroguegambit
    redroguegambit
    Soul Shriven
    Hello all!

    First time posting in the forums, glad to be here :smile: I have a question about the free race change token. If I already have a race change token on my account that I bought from the crown store, will the free one be added to my account? so I'll have 2? or will the free one be temporary (so time sensitive), or not provided? Thank you!
  • oXI_Viper_IXo
    oXI_Viper_IXo
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    Hello all!

    First time posting in the forums, glad to be here :smile: I have a question about the free race change token. If I already have a race change token on my account that I bought from the crown store, will the free one be added to my account? so I'll have 2? or will the free one be temporary (so time sensitive), or not provided? Thank you!

    You will have two after getting the free one. They are not time-sensitive.
  • redroguegambit
    redroguegambit
    Soul Shriven
    Hello all!

    First time posting in the forums, glad to be here :smile: I have a question about the free race change token. If I already have a race change token on my account that I bought from the crown store, will the free one be added to my account? so I'll have 2? or will the free one be temporary (so time sensitive), or not provided? Thank you!

    You will have two after getting the free one. They are not time-sensitive.

    Thank you very much for the quick reply :smiley:
  • dovakiin5574
    dovakiin5574
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    YES THANK YOU!!! But I would say for those of us with 10+ CP characters.... Plz more race change tokens
    PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates
  • Moonsorrow
    Moonsorrow
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    Masel wrote: »

    To @Moonsorrow, the scenarios you mentioned are very specific, 3960 resistance mitigates all damage but bleeds, and if you value that more than a universally useful passive, then you are basics cherrypicking that one scenario where you might feel nerfed, but neglect that 3960 resistance does not suffer from diminishing returns in mitigation as the 6% damage taken does and mitigates everything else a lot better than the other passive.

    To the khajiit statement I can repeat that one to one. In the context of troll king you might feel nerfed, but in exchange for the 20% health recovery you got magicka recovery and retain a value of health recovery that is higher in any scenario where troll king is not active. Magicka recovery is a very important thing in PvP, even on stamina builds.


    As i said, it is nice you finally ADMIT my builds ARE getting NERFED. And will be even more than you think, because as said, it is more than just Troll King. And i do not neglect that 3960 resistance, already was at max resistance so in that case the flat 6% was better and you know how much bleeds are on right now?

    While small mag recovery can be nice, it does NOT make up for all my pvp characters builds getting nerfed that used % modifiers to the extreme benefits. What these changes sadly do, nerf those who used them. Remember the no-cp as i keep saying.

    So of course i am unhappy. And cannot sugarcoat these nerfs to me by trying to say that "hey, but you did get X in return.." while not even need that and been playing differently for years, than apparently you trying to force me to play now.

    CONFIRMED: My characters ARE nerfed by these.


    #PlayHowYouWant
    #Freedom
    #YouWillBeBuffed

    Also one question more for you @Masel how did the race changes increase the freedom to pick race in your eyes? I mean there are now clear "bis" race for all roles again, actually even more than before.

    So racial changes that changed nothing in the end, except nerfs to many playstyles? What was the point?

    Could have just adjusted argonian potion passive down a bit (every argonian knew it was op at pvp), and buffed couple races that needed small amount of love. Or stam and magicka morphs of the passives. And everyone been happy. Why is it so hard to make changes that get people excited and happy?

    Like when Swift needed adjustment, then ALL sources of speed were destroyed with a nuclear bomb and now pvp is crawling super slow in endless snares and immobilizations. No one is happy about that.

    So why? Why cannot just do small adjustments to the actual problems but have to change everything that even do not need changing?

    This game been near perfect occasionally, but then big changes just make it worse. So much potential, to be the best mmo of its kind, but lack of vision and understanding of reality keeps eating up itself like some weird cannibalistic masochist. What makes things hard of course is it having both pve and pvp and cp & no-cp, so balancing is fine tuning. But, first rule if has a clear vision should always be: do not fix something that is not broken.

  • Othniel327
    Othniel327
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    I'd like to see branching passives so you can go stamina vs magicka. Or pile on more health. And a race change token for each character.
  • Cillion3117
    Cillion3117
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    Dont know why everyone is worrying about the khajiit. Cant take them seriously with that furry tail wagging when they run.
  • Othniel327
    Othniel327
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    Dont know why everyone is worrying about the khajiit. Cant take them seriously with that furry tail wagging when they run.

    They're adorable though! <3
  • jpl7340
    jpl7340
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    One free race change per account? That is severely tone deaf and ridiculously inadequate. I have 12 lvl 50 characters that I’ve been working on for over a year. I meticulously chose each of their races based on what I felt would be best for what I wanted to do with them. Now you’re making huge changes to each race and your answer is 1 race change? Yep, that should be enough for me to cancel my subscription.
  • Cillion3117
    Cillion3117
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    jpl7340 wrote: »
    One free race change per account? That is severely tone deaf and ridiculously inadequate. I have 12 lvl 50 characters that I’ve been working on for over a year. I meticulously chose each of their races based on what I felt would be best for what I wanted to do with them. Now you’re making huge changes to each race and your answer is 1 race change? Yep, that should be enough for me to cancel my subscription.

    Wow we get a race change token?!?! That's awesome!!!

    Can I have your stuff?
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    jpl7340 wrote: »
    One free race change per account? That is severely tone deaf and ridiculously inadequate. I have 12 lvl 50 characters that I’ve been working on for over a year. I meticulously chose each of their races based on what I felt would be best for what I wanted to do with them. Now you’re making huge changes to each race and your answer is 1 race change? Yep, that should be enough for me to cancel my subscription.

    Wow we get a race change token?!?! That's awesome!!!

    Can I have your stuff?

    Just for information, canceling the subscription doesn't amount to quitting the game altogether, ESO+ isn't mandatory to play the base game.
  • Cillion3117
    Cillion3117
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    [/quote]

    Just for information, canceling the subscription doesn't amount to quitting the game altogether, ESO+ isn't mandatory to play the base game.[/quote]

    That sucks. I wanted free stuff...
  • Xalmarian
    Xalmarian
    Soul Shriven
    It's... a step in the general right direction, but most of these changes are contradicting the goals set.

    One glaring example is Imperials, focused on sword and shield builds. For one, there's nothing in their lore that says they're better at shields. They have a history of mandatory military service. Secondly, and I need not say it, a magicka DPS user would have advantage of none of these racials, absolutely zero.

    Also, tied with the quoted progression, 2nd racial passive being less powerful than the 4th.

    For example, some races have it worse than others on their presumably ultimate racial. For example, Altmer have 258 spell damage, while Dunmer have that plus weapon damage. Granted that's only applicable in hybrids, or if you want to swap builds, but the capacity is there. Another point I'd like to make is the 2k max magicka, leaving Dunmer with 1.25k both magicka and stamina. If what I know is right, that's roughly ~85 spell damage, which is insignificant in it's own right. I'd much rather have the extra stam on a mage, so I can break free or fit in another roll dodge.

    As for how I'd fix it, a task notoriously difficult, I would suggest more flavor to the racials than flat stat bonuses. We can get stats, grab me three runes and I'll make the stat you want. Something not easily obtainable, or without great sacrifice to gear sets. The Khajiit's detection is one beautiful example, no enchantment can do that, and only a few passives and gear sets can. Sure, you may not be a stealth build, but every player sneaks from now and again. PvP comes to mind, as well as certain stealth-only quests.

    In conclusion, I would remind those in charge about the overall goal of these changes. And sure, there are dozens of examples other players can give, and some may have a different but still correct point of view. I believe most can agree that some of these racials leave much to be desired, and a lot to be questioned.
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    amir412 wrote: »
    @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider the change to % again instead of flat stat to max stamina, magicka & HP,
    This change is damaging build diversity by alot which is already damaged, and limit the way players want to play.

    Choosing to stack max stats, isnt better than stacking weapon damage etc (7th legion + Fury rather than hulking + shackle for example) - First build will still win, but its fun to know that there is a slightly less powerfull alternative.

    I do think they are working on increasing performance. They might be moving to flat values is because of this. Basically if flat values don't have as much calculations the server needs to calculate while your are in combat and if they make it so there isn't as many percentage based calculations. It might just be enough to increase personal and server performance Its possible they could or will be doing this to some class passives and maybe some class skills. Either in the next dlc or during the expansion. The less calculations the server has to perform the greater the performances.

    Many things in the game such as combat, passives, cp points, armor, sets, food/drink buffs and other things might have to be calculated by the sever. I could be wrong as for the reason why they are making racial passives flat stat. But I think sever calculations would be a possibility but then this is just an assumption and not based on fact so we have no idea why but could be a possible reason I'm not sure how it all works if it impacts performance or not. I am sure they would not be switching it without a good reason. Given they are separating the Imperial City from, Cyrodiil, and changing from percent to flat with the racial passives. Its not far fetched that it could all be connected to this effort. We will see what happens when the full pts patch notes for the upcoming dlc. So we will just have to wait and see what is in store for us later in the year.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on January 20, 2019 6:55AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    @Xalmarian Secondly, and I need not say it, a magicka DPS user would have advantage of none of these racials, absolutely zero.

    Imperials mages will get a heal on direct damage, you might not think that is useful but they will, I would call that an advantage.
    . For example, some races have it worse than others on their presumably ultimate racial.

    What does "ultimate racial" mean in this sentence?
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 20, 2019 7:56AM
  • munster1404
    munster1404
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    Argonians already have their health, healing and sustain nerfed. Seems that players won't be happy until the potion passive is totally removed.

  • Grandesdar
    Grandesdar
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    Imperial has never been the best at anything they do, and now there are even less incentives to choose them over nord or even redguard or orc for a tank. Khajiit on the other hand need more love, and like Nords and Khajiit other races need more lore based skills. Give imperials some pve buffs inside imperial city, I dunno you name it.
    Main: The Charismatic StamDK DD
    Side: A Handsome Warden Healer
    Side: (upcoming) Stam Necro DD
    CP: 680
    EU PSN: Style3513
  • LadyLethalla
    LadyLethalla
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    If the emphasis is on "freedom", why does my Redguard magblade get so little from her passives?

    (For anyone wondering why I have a Redguard magblade... she was originally a stamblade but I respecced her for VMA - because I haven't the masochism, reflexes or internet connection to get past stage 5 on a stam character.)
    x-TallyCat-x // PC EU DC - For the Covenant! // ESO Platinum trophy - 16th May 2017.
    Melbourne Australia - the land of Potato Internet.WTB ESO OCEANIC SERVER
  • CurvedSwords123
    CurvedSwords123
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    Redguard WEP skill passive is WAY too limited. Should definitely include fighters guild line as well, this would be completely lore friendly and not so limiting. Maybe even alliance war as well. Either that or just mirror the Breton passive for stam.
  • CurvedSwords123
    CurvedSwords123
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    Dark elf change is bizzare, why health increase and loss of magic?

    I think this will further solidify one race as the obvious highest magic dps character as high elves with the homogenization of the 2 last racial passives.

    Trying to force Dark elf to be a hybrid race is a terrible idea, what they should have done is have different, for the lack of a better word, “morphs” for racial passive, to better fit into ones particular playstyle, because I understand that some races are good at both spell and sword, but you should have to chose which one to be better at, not just innately have both

    Let me end with this:

    A jack of all trades is a master at none

    Dark elf as a whole & Wood elf speed change are terrible. Imp changes are meh. Most of the other changes are great though. I'm happy for u Nords and Bretons!
    Edited by CurvedSwords123 on January 20, 2019 2:24PM
  • AbbyMeowCat
    After reading comments I have to agree that Orcs, Nords and Imperials need another look at them.

    These 3 races can make great survivalist sustain mages in PvP but PvE and all 3 roles?

    Orcs will be able to heal and regain stamina when damaging enemy with weapon abilities which may include destruction staff skills.

    Imperial mages get a chance to restore health with direct damage too and can block more meteors and Soul Assaults with no problem.

    Nords MUST get hit to get Ultimate every 10 seconds.

    However, Orcs, Nords and Imperial mages should not be subjected only towards PvP and deserve more options in PvE as well for all 3 roles.

    Redguard mages instead get an 8% cost reduction for any weapon ability which probably will include spamming Healing Springs or Destruction Staff skills. Redguard healers and mages are possible when this goes live.


    Dark Elf have more flat bonuses compared to Orcs, an overall higher tri-stat value and spell damage which are more than what Orcs get.

    I play an Orc mostly and the Sprint is useful in PvP to kite but I feel developers need to improve the Orc when comparing to Dark Elf. Orcs could maybe get more physical and spell resistance like Nords because Berserker Rage and slightly higher health and stamina stat pool compared to Dark Elf who get an extra stat pool and spell damage buff.

    Nords get an Ultimate Generation when hit every 10 seconds but what about in PvE where sometimes they do not take damage when the tank keeps all the aggro and damage? What about Nord DPS and Healer? They must die to one-shots and enter Sovngarde first for that Ulti Gen to proc?

    This Passive could maybe be looked at and instead proc every 10 seconds in combat instead of having to take damage. This would then reflect their War Cry power in Skyrim and TES games.

    Nords are not supposed to be a tank-only race. Nords live to kill and enter Sovngarde. Most are warriors, archers and even mages like Farengar. They are Vikings. They love to fight instead of just holding block. This way Nords will be viable for all 3 roles.

    Please consider, Devs.
    For sake of TES lore and balance.
    But still, good job on some of the races!
    AbbyMeowCat - Xbox One (NA)
    Long Time Dungeon Tank and Expert - 1200+ CP
    Hircine’s Champion/Alpha Predator/Blackrose Executioner


    Nuraniyah at-Hanis (Main) - Redguard Dragonknight Tank
    Francine Charbonneau - Breton Templar Tank
    Tervur Dralen - Dunmer Dragonknight Tank
    Jaruk-dar - Khajiit Nightblade Tank
    Faranalda - Altmer Sorcerer Tank
    Runwen - Bosmer Warden Tank
    Laurina Favonius - Imperial Dragonknight Tank


  • Vyseman
    Vyseman
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    " We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

    well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    " We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

    well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

    or you know, play them and see if they are really not up to snuff.
  • Vyseman
    Vyseman
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    " We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

    well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

    or you know, play them and see if they are really not up to snuff.

    LOL i dont see a playable race now when this changes comes online.. maybe breton mag dps but thats all
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    " We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

    well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

    or you know, play them and see if they are really not up to snuff.

    LOL i dont see a playable race now when this changes comes online.. maybe breton mag dps but thats all


    technically all the races are "playable" but what is the thought process that has lead you to believe this?
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