Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Deathlord92

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Dark elf change is bizzare, why health increase and loss of magic?

I think this will further solidify one race as the obvious highest magic dps character as high elves with the homogenization of the 2 last racial passives.

Trying to force Dark elf to be a hybrid race is a terrible idea, what they should have done is have different, for the lack of a better word, “morphs” for racial passive, to better fit into ones particular playstyle, because I understand that some races are good at both spell and sword, but you should have to chose which one to be better at, not just innately have both

Let me end with this:

A jack of all trades is a master at none

Dark elf as a whole & Wood elf speed change are terrible. Imp changes are meh. Most of the other changes are great though. I'm happy for u Nords and Bretons!

I’m very happy for my Breton I love these changes all ask from zos is to pls keep spell resistance at 3960 it makes no sense lore wise or even logic of nord having more spell resistance thn a Breton hopefully zos will come to there senses I have faith 🙂

barbarian340

should be more than one race change....we support the game tons...throw us a bone...many of us have at least three toons that we are invested in

Wildberryjack

Again I say, let Dunmer keep their fire damage bonus please. It makes them unique. TY.

Deathlord92

AbbyMeowCat wrote: »

After reading comments I have to agree that Orcs, Nords and Imperials need another look at them.

These 3 races can make great survivalist sustain mages in PvP but PvE and all 3 roles?

Orcs will be able to heal and regain stamina when damaging enemy with weapon abilities which may include destruction staff skills.

Imperial mages get a chance to restore health with direct damage too and can block more meteors and Soul Assaults with no problem.

Nords MUST get hit to get Ultimate every 10 seconds.

However, Orcs, Nords and Imperial mages should not be subjected only towards PvP and deserve more options in PvE as well for all 3 roles.

Redguard mages instead get an 8% cost reduction for any weapon ability which probably will include spamming Healing Springs or Destruction Staff skills. Redguard healers and mages are possible when this goes live.


Dark Elf have more flat bonuses compared to Orcs, an overall higher tri-stat value and spell damage which are more than what Orcs get.

I play an Orc mostly and the Sprint is useful in PvP to kite but I feel developers need to improve the Orc when comparing to Dark Elf. Orcs could maybe get more physical and spell resistance like Nords because Berserker Rage and slightly higher health and stamina stat pool compared to Dark Elf who get an extra stat pool and spell damage buff.

Nords get an Ultimate Generation when hit every 10 seconds but what about in PvE where sometimes they do not take damage when the tank keeps all the aggro and damage? What about Nord DPS and Healer? They must die to one-shots and enter Sovngarde first for that Ulti Gen to proc?

This Passive could maybe be looked at and instead proc every 10 seconds in combat instead of having to take damage. This would then reflect their War Cry power in Skyrim and TES games.

Nords are not supposed to be a tank-only race. Nords live to kill and enter Sovngarde. Most are warriors, archers and even mages like Farengar. They are Vikings. They love to fight instead of just holding block. This way Nords will be viable for all 3 roles.

Please consider, Devs.
For sake of TES lore and balance.
But still, good job on some of the races!

I love my Breton racial passive changes except we should stay at 3960 makes no sense lore wise a nord having more spell resistance and I was kinda hoping there was a way of being a strong stamblade in previous elder scrolls games I always played a Breton assassin 🙂

Cinbri

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Again I say, let Dunmer keep their fire damage bonus please. It makes them unique. TY.

It doesnt make them unique, but only pigeonhold into playing only 1 class of 6.

Snow_White

Personally...

I think if your goal is to retain and enhance the unique feeling and gameplay patterns that each race allows, consider having different racial animations and maybe introduce racial class specialties and/or restrictions (Nature vs Arcane vs Daedric, etc).

As it is, once you put armour on everyone basically looks, acts and moves the same, regardless of race and class. The only race I notice is Bosmer, and that's because they're so small compared to everyone else.

If Cats were more graceful, Nord magic harnessed the power of nature/ice, Dunmer fire, dust and lava, Argonian shamans and poisons, etc. Give each race it's own flavour of idle, run jump, sneak and attack/spellcasting animations. Each race could still use the same spells/abilities for balance reasons... but each race could have a different visual/audio element for those spells/abilities that helps reinforce the racial stereotypes.

IMO.

Cundu_Ertur

Snow_White wrote: »

As it is, once you put armour on everyone basically looks, acts and moves the same, regardless of race and class. The only race I notice is Bosmer, and that's because they're so small compared to everyone else.

Until they try to hide, at which point they grow to be orc-sized.

Savos_Saren

Cinbri wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Again I say, let Dunmer keep their fire damage bonus please. It makes them unique. TY.

It doesnt make them unique, but only pigeonhold into playing only 1 class of 6.

Again- why is it that Altmer is the only race to get a 5% reduced damage while channeling abilities? That pigeon-holes them into two classes (one, of course, being sorcerer)

Your response will be "Yeah, but there's abilities that channel spells..."

And my response will be "Yeah, there's other classes and abilities that use fire..."

IronWooshu

@Masel With the Nord changes, how much damage are Nords getting off 1500 stamina? Is the stat still 10.40 dmg for each point? I feel like Nords and Imperials really got forced into tanks for end game PVE.

xploitedtitanb16_ESO

About the single racial change token: at least give 1 or 2 extra tokens per extra slot bought!

I have 15 slots, almost all filled, how can one expect after all that money spent that I will go back at paying because you guys broke my characters with that rebalance?

You refund us all the passives, for us to reallocate, but frankly... If racial skills become missable, it means you guys did something wrong.

Crixus8000

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryWarden wrote: »

" We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

or you know, play them and see if they are really not up to snuff.

The changes aren't hidden though, everyone can see them. It's easy for most to see if it's a nerf or a change to how they wanted to play their character. You don't always need to test something to see how it will turn out. If zos halfs all your passives for example it's not like you can somehow make that into a buff, no it's just worse than it was before.

hakan

Dont understand how this is a ripoff. if zos wanted more money, they would just destroy Redguards and High Elves but they remain the most powerful. Removing fire damage from Dark Elves wont make them more money.

Grey_Wanderer

Argonians are acclimating, not accumulating.


Still pondering the meat of the matter and don't have anything to offer specifics that haven't been already offered. Frankly, I am glad to see the meta build tower come crashing down ("Don't min-max? No spot for you!"). I'm curious/somewhat apprehensive as to what this will mean for encounter tuning, though.

Grey_Wanderer

AbbyMeowCat wrote: »

Nords are not supposed to be a tank-only race. Nords live to kill and enter Sovngarde. Most are warriors, archers and even mages like Farengar. They are Vikings. They love to fight instead of just holding block. This way Nords will be viable for all 3 roles.

Please consider, Devs.
For sake of TES lore and balance.
But still, good job on some of the races!

This was great. Just had to say.

KuroDark

Yeah, at least 1 or 2 more race changes would be good. If not, you are probably trying to get us to buy more race changes.

Wildberryjack

Cinbri wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Again I say, let Dunmer keep their fire damage bonus please. It makes them unique. TY.

It doesnt make them unique, but only pigeonhold into playing only 1 class of 6.

Disagree. And I have a non-DK Dark Elf. He uses a fire staff. See what I did there? Fire staff.

Cundu_Ertur

AbbyMeowCat wrote: »

Nords are not supposed to be a tank-only race. Nords live to kill and enter Sovngarde. Most are warriors, archers and even mages like Farengar. They are Vikings. They love to fight instead of just holding block. This way Nords will be viable for all 3 roles.

So what you're saying is they come from a land of ice and snow, from the midnight sun where the hot springs flow?

Reaver-Stormhamre

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

AbbyMeowCat wrote: »

Nords are not supposed to be a tank-only race. Nords live to kill and enter Sovngarde. Most are warriors, archers and even mages like Farengar. They are Vikings. They love to fight instead of just holding block. This way Nords will be viable for all 3 roles.

So what you're saying is they come from a land of ice and snow, from the midnight sun where the hot springs flow?

ahAAAAAAAHaaahAAAH!

Cinbri

@Masel is it known how those 258spd/wpd buff will be incorporated, will it be recalculated by minor/mojor sorcery/brutality?

ChefZero

First of all, thx for that @ZOS_Gilliam , very good explanation. Pls move on like this.

It's a very good decision to change from % to flat stats. Especially additiv % bonuses are too potent in a game like ESO and should reworked in general to make futher balancing easier. It seems like your team is thinking more about how to optimize the game to make balancing easier. Because in the current state it's impossible to offer diversity and balance, so pls keep it up.

Also good job with deleting elemental passives because it's a killer for diversity. Elemental passives only affects damage in some builds of some classes while with these changes many builds can profit from it damage and defense wise. 99% of the mDK playerbase are dunmer at the moment, so best example how right and important this change is.

Also, thank you for trying to follow the lore of the races during the changes. Also good example are Dunmer because they were never S-Tier magical races lore wise, rather battlemages. Of course it's a big change in balance but it's legit and not unusal in MMO histories.

Don't be sad if ppl blame you for PvE balance. It's not your fault, PvE endgame content is just bad designed. If it's only about DPS the combat-balance-whatever team will never be able to balance around it. Min/maxer will always find the best and that will become meta.

Some hints in general: unique passives are cool, but impossible to balance, so handle them carefully.
Global passives (like race or guild passives for example) have to be adjust more before balance classes. Extreme builds are only possible (I'm not talking about sets) cause of the massive amount of additive buffs ingame. Changing more passives to flat or multiplicative stats will smooth very high values a bit and offer more diversity without the need of softcaps.
Ppl are to strong so adjusting something down a bit is better than raising something else most time.
I like the implementation of more proc based regen cause flat regen is just boring (and easier to balance of course). Pls handle more like this way.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms.

• When we’re balancing numerical bonuses, this is our general procedure with the values you see. The system works by looking at the total power a bonus provides and comparing it to a bonus from a 2-4 item set. For example, if we have 2000 Stamina, we would compare that to a 2 piece value of Stamina, which is 1096. The final result would be 2000/1096 = 1.82 set bonus efficiency. We did this for each bonus a race provides so they would all be roughly equal in the power they provide.
• We decided to find a healthy standard for total racial power provided and used that budget (roughly 6.5 set bonuses) for the power that each passive would grant. We used the previous version of Redguard and Altmer as our target goal. Note that some of our hybrid races will be a slightly higher value, since their power is divided. Most of the races received buffs to reach this figure.

This system to evaluate balancing show a huge problem in my opinion. Race passives are still to strong. If I compare the 6.5 of a race with a set like draugr hulk (total 5,3) the difference in power will noticeable shown. Especially for PvE balance this factor is too high.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live. We'll also be granting one free race change, per account.

Pls one race&name change token bind on char per level 50 character otherwise many will become angry.

All in all I'm very happy and surprised by many brave decisions that you have made. Keep it up!

Vercos

this is going to kill my magdk.. you guys destroyed dunmers. They're not the best at nothing anymore, now we can be decent at both mag and stam builds, but not the best. you guys should really consider to add back the flame damage bonus again.

Nord_Raseri

add weapon damage to the nord(on top of the other changes) and I'd actually be fine with the changes.

fakingfocused

I will stay Nord no matter what. They look like they will stay in a decent spot. Always love my Nord in pvp. I just wish they would change the 2h xp gain to a dps advantage instead. Make them Like a relevant 2h dps in pve. Or have some overall sort of damage dealing bonus to close the gap in pve dps, As like the missing bererker side of nords.

Twohothardware

fakingfocused wrote: »

I will stay Nord no matter what. They look like they will stay in a decent spot. Always love my Nord in pvp. I just wish they would change the 2h xp gain to a dps advantage instead. Make them Like a relevant 2h dps in pve. Or have some overall sort of damage dealing bonus to close the gap in pve dps, As like the missing bererker side of nords.

With the current changes Nord will be the desired Race that raid groups will want as their tank so Nord will finally see some activity again.

Dracane

Cinbri wrote: »

Is it known how those 258spd/wpd buff will be incorporated, will it be recalculated by minor/mojor sorcery/brutality?

It's 258 base spell/weapon damage being added to you. They will be affected by all spell/weapon damage % that you have.

BlondyIronBlood

About time my Redguard got something good going for him, ohoho yes I'll gladly take those changes plz

Greg11jkalfa

These changes are ok for the most part. But I think you need to remember that the games is nearly 5 years old. People have become very familiar with what races suit what roles, i.e. Dark Elves are for fire builds, Argonians are for healer builds, Nords are for tank builds, etc. The changes to Bretons, Khajiit, High Elves, Imperials, Redguards, and Orcs aren't anything too big. But, removing detection radius and stealth damage (not to mention a copy paste roll bonus from the meduim armor line) from Wood Elves, taking away the bonus to flame damage from Dark Elves, and changing the flat damage reduction for Nords to just spell and physical resist, those things are not welcome changes. They're defining traits of each them, and entire builds have been made based around them. I'm probably the only one to feel this way, and knowing my luck, the changes I don't want will stay, and the ones I really want will be nerfed. I sat back and took losing the 3rd sorcerer bar like a good boy. But I refuse to let 3 of my favorite races lose the things that make them so special.

Greg11jkalfa

Greg11jkalfa wrote: »

(not to mention a copy paste roll bonus from the meduim armor line)

I meant bow skill line to be clear.

Deathlord92

Greg11jkalfa wrote: »

These changes are ok for the most part. But I think you need to remember that the games is nearly 5 years old. People have become very familiar with what races suit what roles, i.e. Dark Elves are for fire builds, Argonians are for healer builds, Nords are for tank builds, etc. The changes to Bretons, Khajiit, High Elves, Imperials, Redguards, and Orcs aren't anything too big. But, removing detection radius and stealth damage (not to mention a copy paste roll bonus from the meduim armor line) from Wood Elves, taking away the bonus to flame damage from Dark Elves, and changing the flat damage reduction for Nords to just spell and physical resist, those things are not welcome changes. They're defining traits of each them, and entire builds have been made based around them. I'm probably the only one to feel this way, and knowing my luck, the changes I don't want will stay, and the ones I really want will be nerfed. I sat back and took losing the 3rd sorcerer bar like a good boy. But I refuse to let 3 of my favorite races lose the things that make them so special.

I love my Breton passives amazing for magblade is it so much to ask for stam racial passives on my Breton I’m sure I’m not the only one who favour a race not suited for there class my case stamblade but I do it anyways because I play Breton assassin in previous elder scrolls if not thn I just have to try magblade Breton passives are to nice not tho as I mentioned before Breton should have more spell resistance thn nord

IronWooshu

Greg11jkalfa wrote: »

These changes are ok for the most part. But I think you need to remember that the games is nearly 5 years old. People have become very familiar with what races suit what roles, i.e. Dark Elves are for fire builds, Argonians are for healer builds, Nords are for tank builds, etc. The changes to Bretons, Khajiit, High Elves, Imperials, Redguards, and Orcs aren't anything too big. But, removing detection radius and stealth damage (not to mention a copy paste roll bonus from the meduim armor line) from Wood Elves, taking away the bonus to flame damage from Dark Elves, and changing the flat damage reduction for Nords to just spell and physical resist, those things are not welcome changes. They're defining traits of each them, and entire builds have been made based around them. I'm probably the only one to feel this way, and knowing my luck, the changes I don't want will stay, and the ones I really want will be nerfed. I sat back and took losing the 3rd sorcerer bar like a good boy. But I refuse to let 3 of my favorite races lose the things that make them so special.

The damage mitigation on the Nord is a trash passive on live currently, the resistances we are getting are way better. The only thing I want to see changed is either Nord is given 258 Weapon Damage and/or the Ultimate Gain is reduced to 5 ult every 5 seconds which is equivalent to Hide of the Warewolf set.