Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Cillion3117

jpl7340 wrote: »

One free race change per account? That is severely tone deaf and ridiculously inadequate. I have 12 lvl 50 characters that I’ve been working on for over a year. I meticulously chose each of their races based on what I felt would be best for what I wanted to do with them. Now you’re making huge changes to each race and your answer is 1 race change? Yep, that should be enough for me to cancel my subscription.

Wow we get a race change token?!?! That's awesome!!!

Can I have your stuff?

John_Falstaff

Cillion3117 wrote: »

jpl7340 wrote: »

One free race change per account? That is severely tone deaf and ridiculously inadequate. I have 12 lvl 50 characters that I’ve been working on for over a year. I meticulously chose each of their races based on what I felt would be best for what I wanted to do with them. Now you’re making huge changes to each race and your answer is 1 race change? Yep, that should be enough for me to cancel my subscription.

Wow we get a race change token?!?! That's awesome!!!

Can I have your stuff?

Just for information, canceling the subscription doesn't amount to quitting the game altogether, ESO+ isn't mandatory to play the base game.

Cillion3117

[/quote]

Just for information, canceling the subscription doesn't amount to quitting the game altogether, ESO+ isn't mandatory to play the base game.[/quote]

That sucks. I wanted free stuff...

Xalmarian

It's... a step in the general right direction, but most of these changes are contradicting the goals set.

One glaring example is Imperials, focused on sword and shield builds. For one, there's nothing in their lore that says they're better at shields. They have a history of mandatory military service. Secondly, and I need not say it, a magicka DPS user would have advantage of none of these racials, absolutely zero.

Also, tied with the quoted progression, 2nd racial passive being less powerful than the 4th.

For example, some races have it worse than others on their presumably ultimate racial. For example, Altmer have 258 spell damage, while Dunmer have that plus weapon damage. Granted that's only applicable in hybrids, or if you want to swap builds, but the capacity is there. Another point I'd like to make is the 2k max magicka, leaving Dunmer with 1.25k both magicka and stamina. If what I know is right, that's roughly ~85 spell damage, which is insignificant in it's own right. I'd much rather have the extra stam on a mage, so I can break free or fit in another roll dodge.

As for how I'd fix it, a task notoriously difficult, I would suggest more flavor to the racials than flat stat bonuses. We can get stats, grab me three runes and I'll make the stat you want. Something not easily obtainable, or without great sacrifice to gear sets. The Khajiit's detection is one beautiful example, no enchantment can do that, and only a few passives and gear sets can. Sure, you may not be a stealth build, but every player sneaks from now and again. PvP comes to mind, as well as certain stealth-only quests.

In conclusion, I would remind those in charge about the overall goal of these changes. And sure, there are dozens of examples other players can give, and some may have a different but still correct point of view. I believe most can agree that some of these racials leave much to be desired, and a lot to be questioned.

Thevampirenight

amir412 wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider the change to % again instead of flat stat to max stamina, magicka & HP,
This change is damaging build diversity by alot which is already damaged, and limit the way players want to play.

Choosing to stack max stats, isnt better than stacking weapon damage etc (7th legion + Fury rather than hulking + shackle for example) - First build will still win, but its fun to know that there is a slightly less powerfull alternative.

I do think they are working on increasing performance. They might be moving to flat values is because of this. Basically if flat values don't have as much calculations the server needs to calculate while your are in combat and if they make it so there isn't as many percentage based calculations. It might just be enough to increase personal and server performance Its possible they could or will be doing this to some class passives and maybe some class skills. Either in the next dlc or during the expansion. The less calculations the server has to perform the greater the performances.

Many things in the game such as combat, passives, cp points, armor, sets, food/drink buffs and other things might have to be calculated by the sever. I could be wrong as for the reason why they are making racial passives flat stat. But I think sever calculations would be a possibility but then this is just an assumption and not based on fact so we have no idea why but could be a possible reason I'm not sure how it all works if it impacts performance or not. I am sure they would not be switching it without a good reason. Given they are separating the Imperial City from, Cyrodiil, and changing from percent to flat with the racial passives. Its not far fetched that it could all be connected to this effort. We will see what happens when the full pts patch notes for the upcoming dlc. So we will just have to wait and see what is in store for us later in the year.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Xalmarian Secondly, and I need not say it, a magicka DPS user would have advantage of none of these racials, absolutely zero.

Imperials mages will get a heal on direct damage, you might not think that is useful but they will, I would call that an advantage.

. For example, some races have it worse than others on their presumably ultimate racial.

What does "ultimate racial" mean in this sentence?

munster1404

Argonians already have their health, healing and sustain nerfed. Seems that players won't be happy until the potion passive is totally removed.

Grandesdar

Imperial has never been the best at anything they do, and now there are even less incentives to choose them over nord or even redguard or orc for a tank. Khajiit on the other hand need more love, and like Nords and Khajiit other races need more lore based skills. Give imperials some pve buffs inside imperial city, I dunno you name it.

LadyLethalla

If the emphasis is on "freedom", why does my Redguard magblade get so little from her passives?

(For anyone wondering why I have a Redguard magblade... she was originally a stamblade but I respecced her for VMA - because I haven't the masochism, reflexes or internet connection to get past stage 5 on a stam character.)

CurvedSwords123

Redguard WEP skill passive is WAY too limited. Should definitely include fighters guild line as well, this would be completely lore friendly and not so limiting. Maybe even alliance war as well. Either that or just mirror the Breton passive for stam.

CurvedSwords123

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Dark elf change is bizzare, why health increase and loss of magic?

I think this will further solidify one race as the obvious highest magic dps character as high elves with the homogenization of the 2 last racial passives.

Trying to force Dark elf to be a hybrid race is a terrible idea, what they should have done is have different, for the lack of a better word, “morphs” for racial passive, to better fit into ones particular playstyle, because I understand that some races are good at both spell and sword, but you should have to chose which one to be better at, not just innately have both

Let me end with this:

A jack of all trades is a master at none

Dark elf as a whole & Wood elf speed change are terrible. Imp changes are meh. Most of the other changes are great though. I'm happy for u Nords and Bretons!

AbbyMeowCat

After reading comments I have to agree that Orcs, Nords and Imperials need another look at them.

These 3 races can make great survivalist sustain mages in PvP but PvE and all 3 roles?

Orcs will be able to heal and regain stamina when damaging enemy with weapon abilities which may include destruction staff skills.

Imperial mages get a chance to restore health with direct damage too and can block more meteors and Soul Assaults with no problem.

Nords MUST get hit to get Ultimate every 10 seconds.

However, Orcs, Nords and Imperial mages should not be subjected only towards PvP and deserve more options in PvE as well for all 3 roles.

Redguard mages instead get an 8% cost reduction for any weapon ability which probably will include spamming Healing Springs or Destruction Staff skills. Redguard healers and mages are possible when this goes live.


Dark Elf have more flat bonuses compared to Orcs, an overall higher tri-stat value and spell damage which are more than what Orcs get.

I play an Orc mostly and the Sprint is useful in PvP to kite but I feel developers need to improve the Orc when comparing to Dark Elf. Orcs could maybe get more physical and spell resistance like Nords because Berserker Rage and slightly higher health and stamina stat pool compared to Dark Elf who get an extra stat pool and spell damage buff.

Nords get an Ultimate Generation when hit every 10 seconds but what about in PvE where sometimes they do not take damage when the tank keeps all the aggro and damage? What about Nord DPS and Healer? They must die to one-shots and enter Sovngarde first for that Ulti Gen to proc?

This Passive could maybe be looked at and instead proc every 10 seconds in combat instead of having to take damage. This would then reflect their War Cry power in Skyrim and TES games.

Nords are not supposed to be a tank-only race. Nords live to kill and enter Sovngarde. Most are warriors, archers and even mages like Farengar. They are Vikings. They love to fight instead of just holding block. This way Nords will be viable for all 3 roles.

Please consider, Devs.
For sake of TES lore and balance.
But still, good job on some of the races!

Vyseman

" We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LegendaryWarden wrote: »

" We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

or you know, play them and see if they are really not up to snuff.

Vyseman

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryWarden wrote: »

" We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

or you know, play them and see if they are really not up to snuff.

LOL i dont see a playable race now when this changes comes online.. maybe breton mag dps but thats all

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LegendaryWarden wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryWarden wrote: »

" We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

or you know, play them and see if they are really not up to snuff.

LOL i dont see a playable race now when this changes comes online.. maybe breton mag dps but thats all

technically all the races are "playable" but what is the thought process that has lead you to believe this?

Deathlord92

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Dark elf change is bizzare, why health increase and loss of magic?

I think this will further solidify one race as the obvious highest magic dps character as high elves with the homogenization of the 2 last racial passives.

Trying to force Dark elf to be a hybrid race is a terrible idea, what they should have done is have different, for the lack of a better word, “morphs” for racial passive, to better fit into ones particular playstyle, because I understand that some races are good at both spell and sword, but you should have to chose which one to be better at, not just innately have both

Let me end with this:

A jack of all trades is a master at none

Dark elf as a whole & Wood elf speed change are terrible. Imp changes are meh. Most of the other changes are great though. I'm happy for u Nords and Bretons!

I’m very happy for my Breton I love these changes all ask from zos is to pls keep spell resistance at 3960 it makes no sense lore wise or even logic of nord having more spell resistance thn a Breton hopefully zos will come to there senses I have faith 🙂

barbarian340

should be more than one race change....we support the game tons...throw us a bone...many of us have at least three toons that we are invested in

Wildberryjack

Again I say, let Dunmer keep their fire damage bonus please. It makes them unique. TY.

Deathlord92

AbbyMeowCat wrote: »

After reading comments I have to agree that Orcs, Nords and Imperials need another look at them.

These 3 races can make great survivalist sustain mages in PvP but PvE and all 3 roles?

Orcs will be able to heal and regain stamina when damaging enemy with weapon abilities which may include destruction staff skills.

Imperial mages get a chance to restore health with direct damage too and can block more meteors and Soul Assaults with no problem.

Nords MUST get hit to get Ultimate every 10 seconds.

However, Orcs, Nords and Imperial mages should not be subjected only towards PvP and deserve more options in PvE as well for all 3 roles.

Redguard mages instead get an 8% cost reduction for any weapon ability which probably will include spamming Healing Springs or Destruction Staff skills. Redguard healers and mages are possible when this goes live.


Dark Elf have more flat bonuses compared to Orcs, an overall higher tri-stat value and spell damage which are more than what Orcs get.

I play an Orc mostly and the Sprint is useful in PvP to kite but I feel developers need to improve the Orc when comparing to Dark Elf. Orcs could maybe get more physical and spell resistance like Nords because Berserker Rage and slightly higher health and stamina stat pool compared to Dark Elf who get an extra stat pool and spell damage buff.

Nords get an Ultimate Generation when hit every 10 seconds but what about in PvE where sometimes they do not take damage when the tank keeps all the aggro and damage? What about Nord DPS and Healer? They must die to one-shots and enter Sovngarde first for that Ulti Gen to proc?

This Passive could maybe be looked at and instead proc every 10 seconds in combat instead of having to take damage. This would then reflect their War Cry power in Skyrim and TES games.

Nords are not supposed to be a tank-only race. Nords live to kill and enter Sovngarde. Most are warriors, archers and even mages like Farengar. They are Vikings. They love to fight instead of just holding block. This way Nords will be viable for all 3 roles.

Please consider, Devs.
For sake of TES lore and balance.
But still, good job on some of the races!

I love my Breton racial passive changes except we should stay at 3960 makes no sense lore wise a nord having more spell resistance and I was kinda hoping there was a way of being a strong stamblade in previous elder scrolls games I always played a Breton assassin 🙂

Cinbri

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Again I say, let Dunmer keep their fire damage bonus please. It makes them unique. TY.

It doesnt make them unique, but only pigeonhold into playing only 1 class of 6.

Snow_White

Personally...

I think if your goal is to retain and enhance the unique feeling and gameplay patterns that each race allows, consider having different racial animations and maybe introduce racial class specialties and/or restrictions (Nature vs Arcane vs Daedric, etc).

As it is, once you put armour on everyone basically looks, acts and moves the same, regardless of race and class. The only race I notice is Bosmer, and that's because they're so small compared to everyone else.

If Cats were more graceful, Nord magic harnessed the power of nature/ice, Dunmer fire, dust and lava, Argonian shamans and poisons, etc. Give each race it's own flavour of idle, run jump, sneak and attack/spellcasting animations. Each race could still use the same spells/abilities for balance reasons... but each race could have a different visual/audio element for those spells/abilities that helps reinforce the racial stereotypes.

IMO.

Cundu_Ertur

Snow_White wrote: »

As it is, once you put armour on everyone basically looks, acts and moves the same, regardless of race and class. The only race I notice is Bosmer, and that's because they're so small compared to everyone else.

Until they try to hide, at which point they grow to be orc-sized.

Savos_Saren

Cinbri wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Again I say, let Dunmer keep their fire damage bonus please. It makes them unique. TY.

It doesnt make them unique, but only pigeonhold into playing only 1 class of 6.

Again- why is it that Altmer is the only race to get a 5% reduced damage while channeling abilities? That pigeon-holes them into two classes (one, of course, being sorcerer)

Your response will be "Yeah, but there's abilities that channel spells..."

And my response will be "Yeah, there's other classes and abilities that use fire..."

IronWooshu

@Masel With the Nord changes, how much damage are Nords getting off 1500 stamina? Is the stat still 10.40 dmg for each point? I feel like Nords and Imperials really got forced into tanks for end game PVE.

xploitedtitanb16_ESO

About the single racial change token: at least give 1 or 2 extra tokens per extra slot bought!

I have 15 slots, almost all filled, how can one expect after all that money spent that I will go back at paying because you guys broke my characters with that rebalance?

You refund us all the passives, for us to reallocate, but frankly... If racial skills become missable, it means you guys did something wrong.

Crixus8000

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryWarden wrote: »

" We'll also be granting one free race change, per account. " ..one.. ONE.. 1!!!!!!!!!.. so.. 125€ for Crowns for 7more Racechange for the other chars..

well done.. all my Orcs, Darkelfs, highelfs are totaly rip and i only got ONE Change.. so i have to pay 125€ or delete all 7 and grind again MONTHS all this chars

or you know, play them and see if they are really not up to snuff.

The changes aren't hidden though, everyone can see them. It's easy for most to see if it's a nerf or a change to how they wanted to play their character. You don't always need to test something to see how it will turn out. If zos halfs all your passives for example it's not like you can somehow make that into a buff, no it's just worse than it was before.

hakan

Dont understand how this is a ripoff. if zos wanted more money, they would just destroy Redguards and High Elves but they remain the most powerful. Removing fire damage from Dark Elves wont make them more money.

Grey_Wanderer

Argonians are acclimating, not accumulating.


Still pondering the meat of the matter and don't have anything to offer specifics that haven't been already offered. Frankly, I am glad to see the meta build tower come crashing down ("Don't min-max? No spot for you!"). I'm curious/somewhat apprehensive as to what this will mean for encounter tuning, though.

Grey_Wanderer

AbbyMeowCat wrote: »

Nords are not supposed to be a tank-only race. Nords live to kill and enter Sovngarde. Most are warriors, archers and even mages like Farengar. They are Vikings. They love to fight instead of just holding block. This way Nords will be viable for all 3 roles.

Please consider, Devs.
For sake of TES lore and balance.
But still, good job on some of the races!

This was great. Just had to say.