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Skyshards account bound
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Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.
You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?
Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.
So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)
So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.
As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.
All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.
So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.
Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.
Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?
Nope, my previous grind is my currency.
And should that apply to skyshards only or to every thing else that is also a "previous grind"? And why?
this is thread is about account bound skyshards nothing more, unless I read the OP incorrectly, did I?
You are correct.
However, making Skyshards account-bound is a slippery slope.
The argument supporting this notion is based on
(1) Acquiring Skyshards again on subsequently created characters is tedious and time-consuming
(2) There is no real harm to balance whether the skill points are given to subsequently created characters or not, since players are already re-acquiring them again normally.
If Zenimax concedes to this argument, then it is a short step to demand that making other benefits account-wide to avoid 'tedious grind' should also be granted. The arguments for those demands would run like this:
"Maelstrom Inferno staves should be account-wide. If I got the staff once, why do I have grind Maelstrom for a second one? There's no harm because I switch my staff between my characters. I just want to have extra copies for every toon so I don't have to waste game time swapping!"
or
"Grinding for extra copies of Dungeon/Trials gear is tedious and a waste of my game time. I think BoE sets should be researchable so my crafter can make all the extra copies I need!"
The two requests above are preposterous. Nevertheless, there are numerous threads and posts in which players request exactly that to avoid grind, improve quality of life, save limited game time, blah, blah, blah. In other words, to create new characters ready for end-game with BiS gear...with as little gameplay as possible to get there.
Now, before you prep your counter argument that you just want the free skill points and draw the line on all the other requests to bypass gameplay...
Everyone in this thread who said 'No' to free skill points has drawn the line there. If you want to create new characters, you have to earn the benefits. Even if earning those benefits is as simple as walking around the map.
Slippery-slope is a logical fallacyValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Yeah I see no problem with this. It could just be a form of research where you have to wait x time or deconstruct y number of set items to craft that set.
It would also add more build diversity because at that point you could also make sets in whatever weight you wantedValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.
You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?
Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.
So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)
So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.
As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.
All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.
So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.
Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.
Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?
Nope, my previous grind is my currency.
And should that apply to skyshards only or to every thing else that is also a "previous grind"? And why?
this is thread is about account bound skyshards nothing more, unless I read the OP incorrectly, did I?
You are correct.
However, making Skyshards account-bound is a slippery slope.
The argument supporting this notion is based on
(1) Acquiring Skyshards again on subsequently created characters is tedious and time-consuming
(2) There is no real harm to balance whether the skill points are given to subsequently created characters or not, since players are already re-acquiring them again normally.
If Zenimax concedes to this argument, then it is a short step to demand that making other benefits account-wide to avoid 'tedious grind' should also be granted. The arguments for those demands would run like this:
"Maelstrom Inferno staves should be account-wide. If I got the staff once, why do I have grind Maelstrom for a second one? There's no harm because I switch my staff between my characters. I just want to have extra copies for every toon so I don't have to waste game time swapping!"
or
"Grinding for extra copies of Dungeon/Trials gear is tedious and a waste of my game time. I think BoE sets should be researchable so my crafter can make all the extra copies I need!"
The two requests above are preposterous. Nevertheless, there are numerous threads and posts in which players request exactly that to avoid grind, improve quality of life, save limited game time, blah, blah, blah. In other words, to create new characters ready for end-game with BiS gear...with as little gameplay as possible to get there.
Now, before you prep your counter argument that you just want the free skill points and draw the line on all the other requests to bypass gameplay...
Everyone in this thread who said 'No' to free skill points has drawn the line there. If you want to create new characters, you have to earn the benefits. Even if earning those benefits is as simple as walking around the map.
Slippery-slope is a logical fallacy
Slippery-slope is considered a fallacy because it attempts to make an emotional argument based on an extreme hypothetical end-point without deductive or logical basis.
The argument made by @therift doesn't actually seem to meet those criteria... and I am saying that ask someone who really doesn't agree with much that they post.
The line of reasoning seems to be:- Previously posted examples of similar requests are provided as context and to establish precedent (I've also seen Guild Skill lines, Traits and Motifs come up).
- A hypothesis that ZOS implements the skyshards idea is put forward.
- Following this hypothesis comes the query: What future argument would ZOS have to not implement any "QoL" request after doing skyshards?
- The concluding statement suggests precluding this situation by not implementing anything of this kind.
Nothing in that series of inferred statements actually stands out to me as either extreme or without logical construction.
The weak point, for me, is in (3). If a rational argument to explain why ZOS would implement just this change and deny the others can be made then the chain collapses. What would you suggest that argument should be?1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not sure why anyone concludes that tedious, mind-numbing, repetitive grinds are fun and good for any game.
You mean like trying to get a Maelstrom Weapon? Or getting multiple characters to level 10 in Assault/Support? Or trying to get trials gear?
Anything you don't like doing is tedious. Considering how much there is to do in this game, each player has their own list of things they consider "tedious" and wish there would be an easier way of getting them.
So if they made Skyshards account-wide, then people would ask for Mages/Fighters/Undaunted/Alliance/Traits, etc (these are all things that have been asked in the forums.)
So we all get to decide if we want the rewards for those activities badly enough to go through them, or if we want to make do with an alternative.
As for the OP and others, the problem is not the skyshards. It's the fact that they want to start a new character with sufficient number of skill points to unlock all the skills they need right out the door. I've never played an MMORPG that lets people do that, and I don't think it fits the genre at all.
All MMOs I have played have some measure of account progression, but most of the progression is per character, and just leveling a character will not get you that progression.
So the folks who would rather ESO was a MOBA may need to consider this and maybe accept that their character is going to take a bit of work? That work doesn't have to be done all in one go. You can make an alt and play them on occasion. Grab a couple of skyshards, run a dungeon, do some PvP and they will get where they want soon enough. But looking at the end of the road before you have taken the first step is self-defeating.
Skills trees in this game are already gated behind your level and having to obtain a certain amount of XP before they unlock.
As well, some skills are DLC based (purchased). At some point, developers will need to equalize skill points available with skill lines. Having 125 account bound skill points that you've acquired from old content grind (skyshards) is IMO enough monetization to justify this QOL improvement.
Are you suggesting that people be able to buy a zone's worth of skyshards? At say 1000 crowns per zone (which would be about 5 skill points)?
Nope, my previous grind is my currency.
And should that apply to skyshards only or to every thing else that is also a "previous grind"? And why?
this is thread is about account bound skyshards nothing more, unless I read the OP incorrectly, did I?
And the first reply to the OP was:rexagamemnon wrote: »Skyshards, wayshrines, alliance war ranks, are just a few items that should be account bound
And I have not seen anyone on the pro-account-wide-skyshards camp say that any of those other things should NOT be account-wide.
Do you differentiate between them? If so, how?The Moot Councillor0 -
TheTombstone✭✭✭Wayshrines should not be account bound. Alliance war ranks also should not be account bound, though titles could have an argument. I'd for one like to have "Former Emperor(ress)" as a title on all my toons, but that is besides the points.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheTombstone wrote: »Not everyone wants to spend money, and do the same content again and again. That's why games often have expansions. Especially when they have a subscription on their game. I bought the game, and have a subscription. I don't have enough time to just sit here and find all the shards again and again whenever I try a new character. It's fun the first 2 times maybe, but after that it gets tedious and boring.
The first, and probably obvious aspect, is when we reach the point we do not want to go through the process of leveling up another character it is probably time to stop leveling up new characters.
The other aspect that is probably obvious is all of this is part of leveling up a new character. Those that just run circles grinding XP are only doing part of the job so they want the rest just given to them because they feel entitled.
Heck. Just do the SP quests and pick up what is easy to pick up and in the end the character has more than enough SPs to be effective. This is the part that seems to be not so obvious for some.3 -
corpseblade✭✭✭Can we define "quality-of-life" improvement? QoLs to me are things that improve gameplay without affecting how the game is played. E.g. moving your alts around on the character select screen, cosmetics, mounts, storage, houses etc. None of these affect the way the game is played.
It seems to me that the proponents of account-wide skyshards, etc. want to change how the game is played. They don't want an mmorpg where each character makes its own progress. They want to skip to endgame. I have only seen this in late-stage mmos like wow, eq2, and lotro and then it has a hefty pricetag. ESO doesn't seem to be at this stage yet. They are pumping out new content very quickly.
And how would the mechanics of this work? Do all your alts get auto-awarded SPs from new content. Does just one character trigger it for all? What if a different character does the new content? Does that count as one character having completed it? What a nightmare.
Why not ask for top level characters be sold in the Crown store? It seems to me you want a bunch of FREE top level characters. Frankly, it seems to me you don't like mmorpgs.3 -
TheTombstone✭✭✭Corpse, the way I would think it should work, is that when you get the achievement for completing all the sky shards in a given area on one character, it unlocks all of those sky shards. It's actually a pretty simple thing to do mechanically since the game already gives you dyes based on achievements on all your characters.3
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Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭corpseblade wrote: »Can we define "quality-of-life" improvement? QoLs to me are things that improve gameplay without affecting how the game is played. E.g. moving your alts around on the character select screen, cosmetics, mounts, storage, houses etc. None of these affect the way the game is played.
It seems to me that the proponents of account-wide skyshards, etc. want to change how the game is played. They don't want an mmorpg where each character makes its own progress. They want to skip to endgame. I have only seen this in late-stage mmos like wow, eq2, and lotro and then it has a hefty pricetag. ESO doesn't seem to be at this stage yet. They are pumping out new content very quickly.
And how would the mechanics of this work? Do all your alts get auto-awarded SPs from new content. Does just one character trigger it for all? What if a different character does the new content? Does that count as one character having completed it? What a nightmare.
Why not ask for top level characters be sold in the Crown store? It seems to me you want a bunch of FREE top level characters. Frankly, it seems to me you don't like mmorpgs.
That's why people suggested the skyshard skills don't come into effect till you hit 50, so therefore your a max level character, and yes QoL changes do effect gameplay decisions that improve the games performance and keep people that can't really play all that long time compared to others happy and stick around further.
Edited by Cpt_Teemo on November 16, 2018 12:36PM2 -
TheTombstone✭✭✭I mean, I'm not suggesting level 50 they get unlocked. But that would still be better than what it is now.1
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Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's why people suggested the skyshard skills don't come into effect till you hit 50, so therefore your a max level character, and yes QoL changes do effect gameplay decisions that improve the games performance and keep people that can't really play all that long time compared to others happy and stick around further.
Though I think it's been mentioned a few times in the thread already, MMOs and players with a limited amount of available gameplay time aren't all that compatible.
When you select the MMO genre to fulfill a hobby, you should already be aware of the time commitment it takes to get a playable character to an acceptable level of gameplay.
ESO does a great job of keeping casual players interested ... but after all it is an MMO.
Don't have the time for skyshards?
A number of suggestions have been made to get around that in-game.
Such as not making Alt characters in the first place ... which depend on another set of skill points. Or, ignoring skyshards altogether and focusing on quests, dungeons, and other activities that do yield skill points.
But, the proponents of account-wide skyshards want to continue on with the discussion ... when they could be getting three skyshards in-game instead of drafting that next forum post.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on November 16, 2018 10:25PM3 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I can see both sides of this, as someone who has played a long time but usually only weekend mornings. The grind to produce an "end game alt" is real. The Psijic Order quest grind especially irritated me, as I have fully leveled alts who now have to go through the questline to stay as effective as before. It had been a LONG time since an ability was not easily accessible for me.
However despite my limited game play time overall I think this would hurt the game (my opinion) for these reasons:- It reduces reasons to do things with other people... especially other less experienced people in the community that could most benefit from learning and playing with the veterans of the community. I am more likely to go help with a world boss or help a group finish something on an alt if I need to grab a skyshard or a lorebook in that area.
- Skyshards are "discovered" as you explore, so it just does not make sense to arrive in previously undiscovered territory to find them already claimed.
Of course it feels like a grind if you feel you must have all of those skill points immediately after hitting max level and you must get them all at once. But everything, really, in the game is meant to be progress towards a goal: collecting the lorebooks, the skyshards, leveling weapon skills.... everything. There is a point where ESO would really need to change what kind of game it is to make some of these things account wide. Changing it so alts have access to everything one's main has done seems too drastic.
I am wondering if there is some type of compromise for this, though. Maybe a quest you can go through as a new character, where a magical entity asks you to gather some materials in exchange for showing you unexplored worlds. At the end of the quest, you black out and when you come to, you've discovered through your dreams a base amount of skyshards and those areas on your map have been discovered.
In other words, don't make them all account bound and completely change how the game does discovery and character development, but maybe give alts a head start.
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TheTombstone✭✭✭Even just allowing alts to have a small boost would be better than what they currently get, which is nothing.1
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Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cillion3117 wrote: »That takes away the fun of discovery.
How do you "discover" the same things, over and over?
2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Cillion3117 wrote: »That takes away the fun of discovery.
tell me what you discover on your 15th toon?
If you are on you 15th "toon"
You may have some OCD issues.....and might want to think of alternate forms of entertainment.
I think you would need to have some (very specific) "OCD issues" to want to do skyshards on even your second "toon", actually.
That's (partly) why I only have one max level.
The thought of levelling a second char, at all, is kind of off-putting, in general.
Actually, in my case, I suppose it would be second and a half?
As I got one char to 40-something, when the game first launched, before leaving and then coming back a few years later to level a Warden.
I may change my mind about alts, in futue; but, right now? No.Edited by Tigerseye on November 20, 2018 10:08AM2 -
Metavente✭✭Um yea one question why the he'll would you need more then 5 chars or lets even stretch it to 10 chars. Just respect your chars.Its hell lot easier and less time to do that then grind a new toon. I have 5 toons even I think I have too many alts.0
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JykJax✭✭i would love a feature like that, it will remove hours of grind for the ones that don't want to retake it again.
the only real downside i would see is that less players(alt) will move around the world but i think that you will have dungeon finder waiting time reduced a lot, with more player that offer all the roles.1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not sure why this is still going. As has been previously mentioned, I've yet to see actual build justification for needing 143 extra skillpoints.
Not completionism, not just because. Actual necessity to make a build work (even with crafting tied on).
There are other ways of accruing skillpoints. Pick one you can at least tolerate, and do so.
The argument that no one want to do this 15x doesn't fly either, because there are 1000's of people that have in order to have the build they were after.
Even the crafters don't need them right away - it takes time to level up, it takes far more time to research traits. Picking up the occasional shard here or there is really not that big of a deal.
It's also made to sound as if you truly have to hunt for ever single one out there. Some of them are literally almost dropped in your lap. Every delve has one. Find the giant beam of light and go to it or don't. Compared to the hours upon hours you'll have perfecting combat and acquiring gear, the optional skyshard grind is not that dire.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS3 -
TheTombstone✭✭✭Just because people have doesn't mean it shouldn't change. People grind for a bunch of things in other games, only foor the next update to get rid of said grind.2
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tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Not sure why this is still going. As has been previously mentioned, I've yet to see actual build justification for needing 143 extra skillpoints.
Not completionism, not just because. Actual necessity to make a build work (even with crafting tied on).
There are other ways of accruing skillpoints. Pick one you can at least tolerate, and do so.
The argument that no one want to do this 15x doesn't fly either, because there are 1000's of people that have in order to have the build they were after.
Even the crafters don't need them right away - it takes time to level up, it takes far more time to research traits. Picking up the occasional shard here or there is really not that big of a deal.
It's also made to sound as if you truly have to hunt for ever single one out there. Some of them are literally almost dropped in your lap. Every delve has one. Find the giant beam of light and go to it or don't. Compared to the hours upon hours you'll have perfecting combat and acquiring gear, the optional skyshard grind is not that dire.
could not agree more...
The few posters (that are still reviving this thread) have it in their minds that they need the skyshards, and because they need them, they should just be given to them, despite the plethora of well-thought, reasoned responses from many, many different individuals contrary to that opinion. But, let us continue to beat that dead horse, after all, that seems to be the MO for how things get done today. "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it"The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,140 achievement points4 -
sulima✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Not sure why this is still going. As has been previously mentioned, I've yet to see actual build justification for needing 143 extra skillpoints.
Not completionism, not just because. Actual necessity to make a build work (even with crafting tied on).
There are other ways of accruing skillpoints. Pick one you can at least tolerate, and do so.
The argument that no one want to do this 15x doesn't fly either, because there are 1000's of people that have in order to have the build they were after.
Even the crafters don't need them right away - it takes time to level up, it takes far more time to research traits. Picking up the occasional shard here or there is really not that big of a deal.
It's also made to sound as if you truly have to hunt for ever single one out there. Some of them are literally almost dropped in your lap. Every delve has one. Find the giant beam of light and go to it or don't. Compared to the hours upon hours you'll have perfecting combat and acquiring gear, the optional skyshard grind is not that dire.
could not agree more...
The few posters (that are still reviving this thread) have it in their minds that they need the skyshards, and because they need them, they should just be given to them, despite the plethora of well-thought, reasoned responses from many, many different individuals contrary to that opinion. But, let us continue to beat that dead horse, after all, that seems to be the MO for how things get done today. "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it"
@tmbrinks
I bet if a Daedra genie came to you and offered a quality of life improvement that you wanted, but reminded you that what ever you received your fellow player would get twice as much; you'd wish for more GRIND...3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Not sure why this is still going. As has been previously mentioned, I've yet to see actual build justification for needing 143 extra skillpoints.
Not completionism, not just because. Actual necessity to make a build work (even with crafting tied on).
There are other ways of accruing skillpoints. Pick one you can at least tolerate, and do so.
The argument that no one want to do this 15x doesn't fly either, because there are 1000's of people that have in order to have the build they were after.
Even the crafters don't need them right away - it takes time to level up, it takes far more time to research traits. Picking up the occasional shard here or there is really not that big of a deal.
It's also made to sound as if you truly have to hunt for ever single one out there. Some of them are literally almost dropped in your lap. Every delve has one. Find the giant beam of light and go to it or don't. Compared to the hours upon hours you'll have perfecting combat and acquiring gear, the optional skyshard grind is not that dire.
could not agree more...
The few posters (that are still reviving this thread) have it in their minds that they need the skyshards, and because they need them, they should just be given to them, despite the plethora of well-thought, reasoned responses from many, many different individuals contrary to that opinion. But, let us continue to beat that dead horse, after all, that seems to be the MO for how things get done today. "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it"
@tmbrinks
I bet if a Daedra genie came to you and offered a quality of life improvement that you wanted, but reminded you that what ever you received your fellow player would get twice as much; you'd wish for more GRIND...
This isn't a QoL improvement, it's a handout. It's an MMO, there are supposed to be some things that are "grindy". I don't even think skyshards are grindy, since you run into pretty much every single one of them as you are questing through the game. ESO is already one of the least grindy MMOs out there, with the shared bank, shared CPs, craft bag (for subs), etc...
You already got transmute crystals, which are easy to get and reduce grind. You got gear sharing between group members, to reduce grind. Where does it end? You and I draw the line in different spots. I say they've gone to far already, making the game more casual.
I don't want people to be able to just "power level" a character, getting it carried through skyreach, and having it be a fully capable class spec in PVE, PVP AND Crafting, all upon reaching level 50 (With all skyshards, and the skill points from leveling you would have OVER 200 skill points!!!) I honestly think that will cause the beginning of the end of this game. If you make it too easy, too casual, people will find something else that actually has a challenge.
But @sulima please actually bring an opinion or idea to the conversation, rather than just sarcastic statements that do nothing to forward the conversation or topic at hand.
Edited by tmbrinks on November 20, 2018 3:15PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,140 achievement points2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheTombstone wrote: »Even just allowing alts to have a small boost would be better than what they currently get, which is nothing.
Alts get champion points (if you want to use them), as well as access to gear and food/potions that your main character can craft. That is quite a boost.TheTombstone wrote: »Just because people have doesn't mean it shouldn't change. People grind for a bunch of things in other games, only foor the next update to get rid of said grind.
I'm still waiting for someone to point to an MMO that lets one character use skill points earned by another. The ones that I play (GW2, BDO, SWL) don't do that. Even Diablo 3, which is not an MMO, still make you level each character individually (though you do earn all skills as you level).
But I have thought about this and I propose the following:
Get Tamriel Skyshard Hunter on 5 different characters and those skyshards and skill points can be automatically unlocked on any future characters (as an option). Whether ZOS wants to make the requirement to be one character or each class or just 5 characters period, that would be a good compromise between having to do it only once and having to do it 15 times.
(My vote is one character of each class, and if they make new classes than one of that class would need to get the achievement too, but that's just me)
The same principle could be applied to skyshards from a DLC zone, provided that the DLC is owned by the player and not just accessible via ESO plus.The Moot Councillor0 -
xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭I gotta say I am xtremely bored in this game and I’ve considered creating new chars to mess around with and try stuff out...but I don’t due to skill points/skyshards
Been there...Done that...Naw thanks...
Still haven’t done the Psijic skill line due to the same run around game...it’s boring...the End may justify the means...but it’s BORING4 -
sulima✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Not sure why this is still going. As has been previously mentioned, I've yet to see actual build justification for needing 143 extra skillpoints.
Not completionism, not just because. Actual necessity to make a build work (even with crafting tied on).
There are other ways of accruing skillpoints. Pick one you can at least tolerate, and do so.
The argument that no one want to do this 15x doesn't fly either, because there are 1000's of people that have in order to have the build they were after.
Even the crafters don't need them right away - it takes time to level up, it takes far more time to research traits. Picking up the occasional shard here or there is really not that big of a deal.
It's also made to sound as if you truly have to hunt for ever single one out there. Some of them are literally almost dropped in your lap. Every delve has one. Find the giant beam of light and go to it or don't. Compared to the hours upon hours you'll have perfecting combat and acquiring gear, the optional skyshard grind is not that dire.
could not agree more...
The few posters (that are still reviving this thread) have it in their minds that they need the skyshards, and because they need them, they should just be given to them, despite the plethora of well-thought, reasoned responses from many, many different individuals contrary to that opinion. But, let us continue to beat that dead horse, after all, that seems to be the MO for how things get done today. "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it"
@tmbrinks
I bet if a Daedra genie came to you and offered a quality of life improvement that you wanted, but reminded you that what ever you received your fellow player would get twice as much; you'd wish for more GRIND...
This isn't a QoL improvement, it's a handout. It's an MMO, there are supposed to be some things that are "grindy". I don't even think skyshards are grindy, since you run into pretty much every single one of them as you are questing through the game. ESO is already one of the least grindy MMOs out there, with the shared bank, shared CPs, craft bag (for subs), etc...
You already got transmute crystals, which are easy to get and reduce grind. You got gear sharing between group members, to reduce grind. Where does it end? You and I draw the line in different spots. I say they've gone to far already, making the game more casual.
I don't want people to be able to just "power level" a character, getting it carried through skyreach, and having it be a fully capable class spec in PVE, PVP AND Crafting, all upon reaching level 50 (With all skyshards, and the skill points from leveling you would have OVER 200 skill points!!!) I honestly think that will cause the beginning of the end of this game. If you make it too easy, too casual, people will find something else that actually has a challenge.
But @sulima please actually bring an opinion or idea to the conversation, rather than just sarcastic statements that do nothing to forward the conversation or topic at hand.
@tmbrinks
We have different definition of MMO, here is one to go by: an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.
I don't think anything should feel "grindy" in a game that I purchased and pay a subscription fee. Progression towards a common goal -absolutely! Shiny rewards for completing content? -yes please! Unanimous cheers in discord for a job well done? -Hell ya!
Current performance issues aside, this is a game with great potential. Personally I don't think it would be the beginning of the end for this game if previously acquired Skyshards became account bound.
It's a nothing burger; can you imagine yourself explaining to a developer that if they ever went forward with a change like this it would break their game? I mean really picture yourself sitting down and going in great lengths explaining this is game breaking feature?
I play maybe a couple times a week, a casual player for sure. I pay a monthly subscription and have purchased new expansions in the past and plan to do so in the future. I don't care for daily rewards, or having to do crafting writs on 10 + alts everyday, just not my thing. What I do enjoy is relevant content, right now I would like to check out new classes. I still need to level the character, progress through current content and level the skills to learn the class. There should be progression, but when it becomes a drudgery of rehashing old content that becomes the definition of grind to me.
I believe casual payers have a place in ESO, this would be a QoL improvement to enjoy and participate in relevant content.
2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Not sure why this is still going. As has been previously mentioned, I've yet to see actual build justification for needing 143 extra skillpoints.
Not completionism, not just because. Actual necessity to make a build work (even with crafting tied on).
There are other ways of accruing skillpoints. Pick one you can at least tolerate, and do so.
The argument that no one want to do this 15x doesn't fly either, because there are 1000's of people that have in order to have the build they were after.
Even the crafters don't need them right away - it takes time to level up, it takes far more time to research traits. Picking up the occasional shard here or there is really not that big of a deal.
It's also made to sound as if you truly have to hunt for ever single one out there. Some of them are literally almost dropped in your lap. Every delve has one. Find the giant beam of light and go to it or don't. Compared to the hours upon hours you'll have perfecting combat and acquiring gear, the optional skyshard grind is not that dire.
could not agree more...
The few posters (that are still reviving this thread) have it in their minds that they need the skyshards, and because they need them, they should just be given to them, despite the plethora of well-thought, reasoned responses from many, many different individuals contrary to that opinion. But, let us continue to beat that dead horse, after all, that seems to be the MO for how things get done today. "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it"
@tmbrinks
I bet if a Daedra genie came to you and offered a quality of life improvement that you wanted, but reminded you that what ever you received your fellow player would get twice as much; you'd wish for more GRIND...
This isn't a QoL improvement, it's a handout. It's an MMO, there are supposed to be some things that are "grindy". I don't even think skyshards are grindy, since you run into pretty much every single one of them as you are questing through the game. ESO is already one of the least grindy MMOs out there, with the shared bank, shared CPs, craft bag (for subs), etc...
You already got transmute crystals, which are easy to get and reduce grind. You got gear sharing between group members, to reduce grind. Where does it end? You and I draw the line in different spots. I say they've gone to far already, making the game more casual.
I don't want people to be able to just "power level" a character, getting it carried through skyreach, and having it be a fully capable class spec in PVE, PVP AND Crafting, all upon reaching level 50 (With all skyshards, and the skill points from leveling you would have OVER 200 skill points!!!) I honestly think that will cause the beginning of the end of this game. If you make it too easy, too casual, people will find something else that actually has a challenge.
But @sulima please actually bring an opinion or idea to the conversation, rather than just sarcastic statements that do nothing to forward the conversation or topic at hand.
@tmbrinks
We have different definition of MMO, here is one to go by: an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.
I don't think anything should feel "grindy" in a game that I purchased and pay a subscription fee. Progression towards a common goal -absolutely! Shiny rewards for completing content? -yes please! Unanimous cheers in discord for a job well done? -Hell ya!
Current performance issues aside, this is a game with great potential. Personally I don't think it would be the beginning of the end for this game if previously acquired Skyshards became account bound.
It's a nothing burger; can you imagine yourself explaining to a developer that if they ever went forward with a change like this it would break their game? I mean really picture yourself sitting down and going in great lengths explaining this is game breaking feature?
I play maybe a couple times a week, a casual player for sure. I pay a monthly subscription and have purchased new expansions in the past and plan to do so in the future. I don't care for daily rewards, or having to do crafting writs on 10 + alts everyday, just not my thing. What I do enjoy is relevant content, right now I would like to check out new classes. I still need to level the character, progress through current content and level the skills to learn the class. There should be progression, but when it becomes a drudgery of rehashing old content that becomes the definition of grind to me.
I believe casual payers have a place in ESO, this would be a QoL improvement to enjoy and participate in relevant content.
If the developers did decide to go through with this, I would very much like to opportunity to explain to them how I think it's game breaking. But please, call my argument a "nothing burger" (whatever the heck that is???, assuming it's negative by the word "nothing")
You can trial new characters all you want on the PTS, if that's your desire.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,140 achievement points0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
@AlnilamE, I've proposed something similar as a compromise.TheTombstone wrote: »Even just allowing alts to have a small boost would be better than what they currently get, which is nothing.
Alts get champion points (if you want to use them), as well as access to gear and food/potions that your main character can craft. That is quite a boost.TheTombstone wrote: »Just because people have doesn't mean it shouldn't change. People grind for a bunch of things in other games, only foor the next update to get rid of said grind.
I'm still waiting for someone to point to an MMO that lets one character use skill points earned by another. The ones that I play (GW2, BDO, SWL) don't do that. Even Diablo 3, which is not an MMO, still make you level each character individually (though you do earn all skills as you level).
But I have thought about this and I propose the following:
Get Tamriel Skyshard Hunter on 5 different characters and those skyshards and skill points can be automatically unlocked on any future characters (as an option). Whether ZOS wants to make the requirement to be one character or each class or just 5 characters period, that would be a good compromise between having to do it only once and having to do it 15 times.
(My vote is one character of each class, and if they make new classes than one of that class would need to get the achievement too, but that's just me)
The same principle could be applied to skyshards from a DLC zone, provided that the DLC is owned by the player and not just accessible via ESO plus.
Add up the total of all (insert thing here, in this case skyshards.) and divide by 14. That's the head start you'd have on a new character. It would give a little bit of a boost, directly corresponding to level of play across all characters, but it wouldn't be everything in one swoop.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally take each character and hunt skyshards until they're 50 then go do the quests.(opens wayshrines etc) but I can see the attraction to NOT having to do it every time. Some say you have to earn your skills, but you do that. You can't just use them, you have to level them and they are STILL locked unless you grind. Some say power level characters. We have many, many posts on how to get a character to 50 in hours, days, etc.(and I'd rather that guy tanking and new to the character have their passives) also read well we've done it in the past so it's no big deal. We've also camped items waiting on the right traits for weeks(months?) Now we can morph traits.
Personally I see value in opening wayshrines(helped with summerset!) But if you've done it before, I don't see why not.
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