Combat Update in U21 - A New Approach

Minno · November 2018

casparian wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.

The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.

Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.

The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

I smell multiple morphs of racial passives. That would be an interesting change.

lol.

Though I smell a return of racial ultimates

Shinshadow · November 2018

Hey @ZOS_RobGarrett , what are the odds of us getting another weapon skill line?? I would LOVE to see whips (so non dragonknights can use it) and orb/tome (dual wield for magic users) come in to play. It'll not only give the system a nice change, but really add another flavor to the RP community

frostz417 · November 2018

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Whilst looking at racial balancing can you please go and take a look at the Orc Craftsman skill. Whilst it's awesome for new characters it's the only racial passive which doesn't remain useful throughout the game (once you've leveled all crafting skills it's useless).

The Combat team is focusing specifically on the combat-related passive abilities. We currently don't have any changes planned for the non-combat racial passives.

Say goodbye to argonians, redguards, and dark elves guys!!

GreatGildersleeve · November 2018

Sorry Rob but all I got out of that was...

Incoming nerfs to racial passives.

Colour me jaded from Morrowind, Nerfmire etc but that’s my only tl:dr takeaway.

KhajiitHasSkooma · November 2018

Oooh. I wonder what they will do to disappoint a majority of the player base that already has less than zero positive expectations for these changes.

One thing for sure, any race with sustain passives, prepare your buttholes for broad and sweeping nerfs that will take a few years to undo before you can sustain 90% of what you used to. And also lowkey magDK nerfs just to keep up with tradition.

Minno · November 2018

old list of race ultimates:
- argonian: Histskin - Health regeneration increased by 100 for 15 sec. Activated elite ability.
- dark elf: Ancestral Guardian - 15 seconds, activated, can taunt.
- nord: Battle Cry - 7% AE damage increase anyone in area, activated.
- breton: Dragon Skin – Damage shielded is absorbed as magicka during this period.
- orc: Berserker Rage – Increase damage done by 20% and reduce damage taken by 10%.
- redguard: Power Charge – Increase power by 20% for 15 seconds.
- high elf: Highborn – Increase magicka recovery by 100 for 15 seconds.
- bosmer: Summon Bear – (Instant / Self / 100 Ultimate) Summon a Bear to attack nearby enemies for 15 seconds.
- kitty: Eye of Fear – (Instant / 36 meter range / 120 Ultimate) Fear target and cause it to take 5% additional damage from all attacks for 5 seconds.
- imperial - ?

source:
https://eldersouls.com/_/elder-scrolls-online/news/racial-skills-daggerfall-covenant-r159

VaranisArano · November 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Interesting... We'll still have the Dunmer Master Race though right? Please?

Thanks Rob, these are the kinds of updates which help give people an idea where game direction is going.

Edit: Whilst looking at racial balancing can you please go and take a look at the Orc Craftsman skill. Whilst it's awesome for new characters it's the only racial passive which doesn't remain useful throughout the game (once you've leveled all crafting skills it's useless).

Dunmer don't need great passives to be the Master Race. Just n'wah to lord it over.

SorataArisugawa · November 2018

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

[...]

To that effect, the team is currently investing a portion of its time into codifying our vision and long-term strategy for combat. This is not a trivial task because, as mentioned before, the game is huge and there’s a lot to cover with combat. As such, we’re pulling back on the volume of combat balance changes being introduced in U21 compared to previous updates. Currently our planned changes for the update include:
New item sets for our Q1 2019 DLC

Redesigns for several PvP item sets that are currently rarely used

A balance pass on racial passive abilities

A small number of other balance changes, many of which are wrapping up efforts the team took on in U20

An assortment of bug fixes

[...]

If you do all that, it will be much more than an normal update. Great changes normaly appear after an year or so. Each update would be great, but this hasn't happen so far. At least this changes will effect more, I assume. Especially the racial passivs could be very interesting if you guys do it right and go just a litte (not too much) overboard with the system compared to now.

But I hope with this "decline in volume for this update" the next update gives us much more to hope for. A clear strategy would be great at first definitely, more diversity in a class and more usfull morphs and skills on the longer run are extremly needed. Hope that you are the change that the combat team needed. Would be very nice if you can give the development the right fundamental boost! Keep it up please

Masel · November 2018

It actually feels weird to read all this unjustified negative stuff when you know what's gonna happen

jypcy · November 2018

Minno wrote: »

old list of race ultimates:
[...]
- bosmer: Summon Bear – (Instant / Self / 100 Ultimate) Summon a Bear to attack nearby enemies for 15 seconds.
[...]

source:
https://eldersouls.com/_/elder-scrolls-online/news/racial-skills-daggerfall-covenant-r159

Bosmeri wardens when racial ultimates are added:

rabidmyers · November 2018

HELL YEAH!

Itacira · November 2018

Wouldn't that be an awesome opportunity to also introduce class change

?

Silver_Strider · November 2018

I expect this to fail in spectacular fashion but who knows, maybe something good can come from it. I highly doubt it but I've been wrong before.

jcm2606 · November 2018

Masel wrote: »

It actually feels weird to read all this unjustified negative stuff when you know what's gonna happen

If only you could let us know what is going on so we could... oh wait.

dpencil1 · November 2018

You know...when the Warden came out, I feel like I remember something from an ESO Live where they said something to the effect of wanting to get all classes to a place like the Warden, where each of the class skill lines was more distinctive toward dps/tanking/healing...that they wanted to bring all classes to a place of true well-roundedness where they would all be able to accomplish the three primary roles equally well, just in different ways. I thought that was the overall vision established in Morrowind.

So by virtue of making all classes equally capable for whatever role, just with a different flavor, true balance would be achieved.

The core problem seems to rest with player psychology. We want the most efficient/powerful thing...class, race, skills, sets, etc. And so even if the difference is small, whatever is not the top is perceived as trash. So you try to get players to quit going to that top pick by nerfing it. But then that just means something different become the top, and so on...the endless game of whack-a-meta.

Zypheran · November 2018

Thanks Rob and it's great to see the development of more forthcoming communication from the dev team. It's also very positive to hear that a more long-term, strategic approach to combat is being taken. Brutal changes with little communication has given the community a feeling that the direction for this game is impulsive and reactive over the past year so a change in approach should be well received.
Naturally it would also have a huge positive impact on community engagement if a similar approach was taken with performance issues and bugs i.e. a statement to acknowledge performance issues and a pledge for a strategy to address it. The "we're aware of this and looking into it" line of communication hasn't done enough to give the community a sense of confidence that these issues are being worked on. It would truly be great to see better communication around what's being planned to tackle these issues.

Galarthor · November 2018

cpuScientist wrote: »

Oh boy here we go!

Thanks for the update. Sad many classes will have to wait 2 updates now for needed fixes...

2 months? Earliest in 2 months U21 will go on PTS where it will stay for 1.5 months, so the you will see fixes to classes / skills / sets will be in 3.5 months. But it gets even better, U21 will only contain very few changes and fixes. That means you will likely not see the desired fixes until U22, which will hit live roughly 3 months after U21, which means you won't see (most of) the for at least 6.5 months - or in other words half a year!

On a different note, I like the idea of reworking the race passives. In their current form they feel pretty unexciting. However, given ZOS track record of balance in recent updates I am also worried about these changes.

Skander · November 2018

Mind this: if every race has the same things, why having multiple races?
I can't tell imperials from bretons a part from the roles.

adeptusminor · November 2018

I shouldn't get a sinking feeling in my stomach when you guys vaguely mention balance changes, but I do

Bevik · November 2018

CrimsonGTX wrote: »

I somewhat expect disappointment, it will most likely be a nerf Argonian, High Elf, Dark elf and Redguard. Lore wise these classes are in-line with past Elder Scrolls games. Except that Imperials should have the Resourceful passive that Argonians have, and Redguard should have 50% Poison resist included in their passives somewhere.

All zenimax can do from this point is add some buffs to other racial passives......but i doubt that would be the case.

Honestly I see only Argonian potion passive as a huge problem as it makes superior in a lot of situations if not all. Everything else is let's say somewhat balanced. What I would like to see to buff classes so they can be more role specific. Like buff Woodelf more so can be an ultimate bow/bow race. But this will create the opposite as ZOS trying to make races/classes pretty much equal. Than as said what is the point to have races and classes other than cosmetics and different names for skills. They should actually go against their idea and really separate the races and classes. Let's face it that's how MMOs are working. You pick a different race and class for a different role in an order of effectiveness. We have them already anyway.

Otherwise I'm afraid they are going to overdo the whole thing and all my Redguard stam classes are going to be rubbish. If they won't let us change to any race atleast this is going to be a hard fail.

Footfalls · November 2018

I don't know if racial morphs are planned, or what changes are being discussed but I think some lore friendly racials buffs would be nice.

Khajiit: Give them spell crit as well (to help make Khajiit mages viable)
Breton: Whenever you take magic damage gain 300 magicka, can happen every 4 seconds (150 mag recovery, lore friendly spell absorb, can reduce spell resistance passive to compensate if too OP)
Imperial: +10% max magicka (+10% all stats is not OP, but Nibenese Imperials are supposed to be magically inclined in lore).
Nord: I can't think of any lore-friendly buffs but they need help

Argonian, Dunmer, Altmer, Redguard, Orc: no changes required

Bosmer: Not sure if buffs needed

Please don't nerf the stronger races, just buff the weaker ones.

Minno · November 2018

Footfalls wrote: »

I don't know if racial morphs are planned, or what changes are being discussed but I think some lore friendly racials buffs would be nice.

Khajiit: Give them spell crit as well (to help make Khajiit mages viable)
Breton: Whenever you take magic damage gain 300 magicka, can happen every 4 seconds (150 mag recovery, lore friendly spell absorb, can reduce spell resistance passive to compensate if too OP)
Imperial: +10% max magicka (+10% all stats is not OP, but Nibenese Imperials are supposed to be magically inclined in lore).
Nord: I can't think of any lore-friendly buffs but they need help 50% unarmed damage

Argonian, Dunmer, Altmer, Redguard: no changes required

Bosmer: Not sure if buffs needed

BigBadVolk · November 2018

Minno wrote: »

old list of race ultimates:
- argonian: Histskin - Health regeneration increased by 100 for 15 sec. Activated elite ability.
- dark elf: Ancestral Guardian - 15 seconds, activated, can taunt.
- nord: Battle Cry - 7% AE damage increase anyone in area, activated.
- breton: Dragon Skin – Damage shielded is absorbed as magicka during this period.
- orc: Berserker Rage – Increase damage done by 20% and reduce damage taken by 10%.
- redguard: Power Charge – Increase power by 20% for 15 seconds.
- high elf: Highborn – Increase magicka recovery by 100 for 15 seconds.
- bosmer: Summon Bear – (Instant / Self / 100 Ultimate) Summon a Bear to attack nearby enemies for 15 seconds.
- kitty: Eye of Fear – (Instant / 36 meter range / 120 Ultimate) Fear target and cause it to take 5% additional damage from all attacks for 5 seconds.
- imperial - ?

source:
https://eldersouls.com/_/elder-scrolls-online/news/racial-skills-daggerfall-covenant-r159

I wonder how some of these will change, like the Dark Elf prob gonna be a discount destro ult or they are all gonna be totally reworked

FR0STDEE · November 2018

Better be giving away race change tokens with your race nerfs.

Machete · November 2018

#BuffBosmer

Though I do have to say for Khajiit and Bosmer, please get rid of the stealth passive! Please!!!

DaGhostDS · November 2018

Split pvp and pve balance.

SirAxen · November 2018

New item sets for our Q1 2019 DLC

Looks like q1 2019 will be another dungeon dlc. Yay?

NupidStoob · November 2018

So we won't have any meaningful balance updates until April? Almost half a year of nothing in order to find direction?

technohic · November 2018

So the complaint is that it's hard to understand the changes when not seeing the end goal for combat balance, and the answer is to do fewer changes so we see even less of the full picture?

I guess at least focusing to actually have a vision for where you want to go is good but it's just words so long as you're churning out updates with more Cp and new item sets that greatly impact balance every 3 months

mb10 · November 2018

Please have a look at buffing the Winterborn set for Ice Mages

Also my 2 cents on races is to buff weaker ones as oppose to nerfing stronger ones