Combat Update in U21 - A New Approach

Czekoludek

Please, can you for once buff things that need the buff rather then nerf the good ones? I'm tired of all this nerfs

firedrgn

How about a magic bow. I have been really good this year.

KittyHazWares

Rip Argonian xD

IZZEFlameLash

What I read: "We are going to nerf the hell out of popular races instead of making non-Redguard/Altmer/Dunmer/Orcs useful. And we are going to overbuff or just change something useless with another useless set bonuses."

CaliMade

all i want is some *** STAM MORPHS FOR STAM DK.

WHY IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR?

NupidStoob

CaliMade wrote: »

all i want is some *** STAM MORPHS FOR STAM DK.

WHY IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR?

Same for stamSorc please.

Make them about wind. They literally have a skillline called "Storm calling" which already has that concept with Hurricane.

- Remove mages wrath morph for some stamina execute or spammable.
- Replace Lightning Flood with a stationary tornado or other wind related aoe dot.
- Change overload to fixed cost with a fixed duration (preferably not so high to open up master architect and war machine) and have one morph shoot wind instead of lightning.

- Remove Dark Exchange cast time and make it completely over time to bring it in line with Netch, Rune Focus and Siphoning Strikes. This will help with the terrible sustain sorcerers have as well as give stamSorcs a meaningful way to provide minor prophecy to the group.

usmcjdking

The race changes sound nice.

I don't feel this game is going anywhere, though. Just treading water with "balance" instead of just making it fun.

evoniee

im ready for argonian and redguard 'changes'

DoobZ69

@ZOS_RobGarrett

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

I’m guessing many of you will be interested to know more about the racial balance changes. While we aren’t ready to share specific details yet, here’s a peek at the goals driving the team’s effort:

• When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.
• The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.
• Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.
• The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

That's all for now. Feedback, as always, is welcome.

Yes, yes, yes, 1000 times yes!! The players picking their race should be able to pick the race they want to play, not pick the race they should pick for the role they are intending to play. +1. Well done. Please make sure the following are all considered for racial passives for all races: pvp+pve+melee+range+magicka+stamina+dps+tanking+healing in a balanced way across the board.

The next most important point to consider is when someone changes their role. I fear that you will make more races be able to do more roles when choosing the character but not be flexible after the fact. So for example a magicka DPS deciding to change to tanking and Stamina at max level. The race design should accommodate for that without punishing the player for the race chosen at original creation.

You have mentioned keeping the unique feeling and flavor which is another important factor. Please don't consider this over balance because it will only work against actually levelling the balance between the races. I hope you have considered that if some races are clearly better than others at a thing it works not only to have this race being chosen more often but also purposefully avoided due to 'cheese' factor. Those who don't want the race pick because they have to and those who do avoid because they are turned off due to OP design.

As a suggestion I would like for you to grant a 1 week free race change activation period token for anyone who is subscribed and a 3 day one for anyone who is not. This will allow everyone a chance to have a go at all the new races and possibilities, encourage people to subscribe and leave no-one behind. Only of course after the change goes live.

Looking forward to the re-balancing of the class passives to follow along the same line of thinking and attention. Churr

Morgul667

Thanks Rob for sharing.

Your posts are going a long way.

I think it is too late for me, as Im already thinking of moving on and a few couple updates feel like eternity but this kind of post is going in the right direction.

Hope you could do a similar thing for performance issues

_Ahala_

Could we also get some mag ice morphs for Magden? I’m sick of everything being a generic buff or a health based skill

HappyLittleTree

Thank you for looking into racial passives. As for the class representatives I hope they'll give you some good feedback on the changes and best of luck that everything works out. I have faith in all of you! Devs and Representatives!

Chilly-McFreeze

Well, there goes my hope for a sorcerer class overhaul.

Cinbri

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Whilst looking at racial balancing can you please go and take a look at the Orc Craftsman skill. Whilst it's awesome for new characters it's the only racial passive which doesn't remain useful throughout the game (once you've leveled all crafting skills it's useless).

The Combat team is focusing specifically on the combat-related passive abilities. We currently don't have any changes planned for the non-combat racial passives.

But what about non-combat passive interact with pvp? Like dunmers Ashlander passive does not reduce damage in environmental lava in Cyrodiil zone or Foyada Quarry battleground zone, is it intended or considered as bug that should be fixed?

Aluneth

"We need more money!" - Person 1

"We're adding new things to the crown store..." - Person 2

"It's not good enough! WE NEED MORE MONEY!" - Person 1

"What about changing the races, think of the race changes!" - Person 3

"But... The playerbase!" - Person 2

"To hell with the playerbase, change the races!" - Person 1

GaunterODim

Now that you guys admit that you made too heavily handed changes, is there a chance that you revert the crippling expedition changes before you are "pulling back on the volume of combat changes being introduced"?

Cheezits94

While I understand that this is probably intended to bring the races more in line in terms of dps and to not have every newly created tank and healer to be an Argonian, this has me incredibly terrified that any special perks a race has will be gone in the future. Especially if a "flavor perk" is actually useful in combat.

I am most scared of the unique Spell Resistance passive of Bretons getting hit by a nerfhammer. While being a niche passive, this is incredibly useful for newer players and for healers who want to be a bit more tanky in certain situations.

SaintSubwayy

Well I appreciate the Race Balance changes. I am concerned about the race you pick not beeing as important to what you want to do with the char, like it is now.

I like the fact that dunmer deal the most Firedmg, yes it became Best MagDD race, but not cause it deals that much more firedmg. Because changes like the Flamestuff dealing 8% more ST dmg, in Combo with Dunmer bade them Bis.

If the changes are goin to be major, then I hope we get a RaceChange Token for every Character we own. And NO not a 1 Week period of free changeing arround. BIS Races wont be found withing 1 week, same a it took us quite a while to figure out that Thief is still the best MUndus in PVE for MagDD's.

John_Falstaff

I wholeheartedly welcome the balancing of racial passives, making them equal in combat power and hopefully untying the races from preferred roles. That was long time coming. (Why, as a khajiit sDK, no wonder I do, and there are folks who have it way worse than I do.) And yes, I do think that one doesn't need any other reason to choose one race over another but the fact they associate themselves with it. We're in roleplaying game, you don't need to have an extra excuse to choose an argonian other than feeling yourself an argonian, or extra peer pressure for choosing something else and not what you feel with.

So, different sets of passives, or constellations, or morphs (provided they're all balanced for respective preferred roles), it all will be a change towards better. I do have misgivings, given the track record, but at this point, I have fairly low expectations, and that means I have higher than normal chances to be pleasantly surprised... so there's that.

Aluneth

I have a feeling that people who ask for homogeneity when it comes to races, don't fully understand what they're asking for.

Altmer that is more resilient than an Orc? That is equal to a Redguard when it comes to using a sword?

A Nord that is as good if not better at sneaking than a Khajiit? That is equal to a Bosmer in archery?

You're throwing lore under the bus.

I'm perfectly fine with a balance, and I'm all for races getting the option to be a viable tank/healer. There should still be a difference though, and the races should be unique.

One could look upon the passives as genetic makeup for the different races. Sure there are exceptions (a Nord archmage), but that's an exception and not the norm.

Zer0oo

Just get rid of the passives per race and let players select 4 passives they like and for a moderate fee of gold, they just can change them whenever they want.

Aluneth

Zer0oo wrote: »

Just get rid of the passives per race and let players select 4 passives they like and for a moderate fee of gold, they just can change them whenever they want.

"Today I want to be a powerful Magician!"

"Weren't you a powerful Magician yesterday?"

"No stupid, I was a resilient Berserker!"

"I'm tired of being a Redguard Swordsmaster. If only I had the money to be a Powerful Magician too..."

While this can be simulated by changing your attributes, there is still an affinity for certain parts that you can't change.

John_Falstaff

@Aluneth , if having whiskers or tail or dark skin isn't enough of a difference between races for you, then I don't know why you're even playing this game. It's not a single player game, it's a competitive MMO in addition to being RPG, so of course some fine points of lore have to be sacrificed for balance. It comes without saying.

Aluneth

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Aluneth , if having whiskers or tail or dark skin isn't enough of a difference between races for you, then I don't know why you're even playing this game. It's not a single player game, it's a competitive MMO in addition to being RPG, so of course some fine points of lore have to be sacrificed for balance. It comes without saying.

There are many reasons for me playing this game, one of them is gameplay. I'm a number person, I happen to enjoy D&D. It's not just looking like a huge orc, it's also having the strength of a huge orc. It's part of the immersion for me, a link between gameplay and roleplay.

It's the least competitive MMO I've ever played, and I've played my share of MMOs.

PouletRico

Masel wrote: »

It actually feels weird to read all this unjustified negative stuff when you know what's gonna happen

Right ? Damn, everyone crying about Argonians, but what I read is:

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.

So maybe, they'll buff an other race to be viable for tanking. Guys, this post is good new actually...

John_Falstaff

@Aluneth , then you're just not playing the competitive side of it. Doesn't mean such side doesn't exist. So next time you're sitting by D&D table, imagine DM telling you - oh, you're huge orc, but see, in this campaign, we need you to be an effective mage, so either stop being orc (and I assume you enjoy being an orc, else again, why do you even bother playing?) or GTFO.

In other words, if your imagination and knowledge of lore doesn't provide you with enough flavor for races and you need crutches in form of actual in-game passives, then the problem is on imagination's part.

SaintSubwayy

PouletRico wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

It actually feels weird to read all this unjustified negative stuff when you know what's gonna happen

Right ? Damn, everyone crying about Argonians, but what I read is:

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.

So maybe, they'll buff an other race to be viable for tanking. Guys, this post is good new actually...

Of course its good that they finally want to make a big step towards race balance.

However we have seen in the past how ZOS did their balancing....get the bulldozer and nerf Top performing sets, passives, Classes and Races into oblivion.

So its actually more fearing that they will continue this trend, rather than buffing underperforming things (which they might finally do with U21, atleast they stated that).

Predicting the future by looking at the past.

Aluneth

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Aluneth , then you're just not playing the competitive side of it. Doesn't mean such side doesn't exist. So next time you're sitting by D&D table, imagine DM telling you - oh, you're huge orc, but see, in this campaign, we need you to be an effective mage, so either stop being orc (and I assume you enjoy being an orc, else again, why do you even bother playing?) or GTFO.

In other words, if your imagination and knowledge of lore doesn't provide you with enough flavor for races and you need crutches in form of actual in-game passives, then the problem is on imagination's part.

It's a game. It has spell/physical resistance, penetration, critical, regeneration, damage reduction, attributes, etc. This is part of the game. I enjoy spending time building up my character, using the right items, tweaking the numbers. This has always been part of a RPG. Different races brings different abilities to the table, helps to enhance this aspect. If you remove the different racials, then you're not just ignoring the lore, you're also dumbing down the game.

I don't have a problem with my imagination, thank you for asking.

Maryal

I LOVE my racial passives and don't want any of them changed! I've played the same character since I started over 3 years ago. I chose my race specifically due to the racial passives - to me they were a perfect fit for being a NB. I am so immersed in Elder Scrolls lore ... words can't even begin to describe how much fun it is. I've always been fascinated by elves and there is nothing I'd rather RP as than a stealthy, sneaky, thieving, (and sometimes assassin) wood-elf NB. I even sneak around (RP'ing) when farming ores and flowers despite the fact that i could easily 1-shot mobs in those areas. LOL!

Masel

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

PouletRico wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

It actually feels weird to read all this unjustified negative stuff when you know what's gonna happen

Right ? Damn, everyone crying about Argonians, but what I read is:

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.

So maybe, they'll buff an other race to be viable for tanking. Guys, this post is good new actually...

Of course its good that they finally want to make a big step towards race balance.

However we have seen in the past how ZOS did their balancing....get the bulldozer and nerf Top performing sets, passives, Classes and Races into oblivion.

So its actually more fearing that they will continue this trend, rather than buffing underperforming things (which they might finally do with U21, atleast they stated that).

Predicting the future by looking at the past.

Back then we weren't there to have them adjust things properly and meet the community expectations. The last patch wouldve been good if they didnt do sweeping changes that they didnt show us in advance, e.g. the major expedition changes and cast times on shields. When they present new sets and combat balance changes months before they hit the pts as they do now we have enough time to keep the good stuff, but make them rethink the bad stuff. And from the impression i get so far since we signed the NDA, it helps a ton.