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Veteran Banished Cells I HM - Soul Blast

  • Carbonised
    Carbonised
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    code65536 wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    The telegraph on that is fine. Even if you don't notice the red lines, the animation is distinct and looks nothing like anything else the boss does. The telegraph is long enough that I can even get it as a DPS. Generally, it's the tanks job to get it, since they are always within melee range and there's really nothing else for the tank to do. Most PUG tanks don't know that they need to bash that, though, so I typically stay in melee range (even as a ranged DPS) and get the bash.

    In BCI, the ability has a cast time of 0.1s. You have more than an order of magnitude more time in Blackheart. These two things really are not comparable.

    The channel of that boss is still significantly shorter than other channels you have to bash. Plus, it should have the red lines that indicate it's interruptable. Regardless of whether you think it is easy to do it or not, it should adhere to the general principle of channels. ZOS even made players have the red lines in PvP now to indicate they can be interrupted.

    I wasn't necessarily comparing the Wavecutter boss to Rilis, I was simply adding that there are also other bosses that need to be looked over in addition to Rilis.

    It's something that, once someone learns what it looks like and learns to look for it, is pretty easy to spot and react to. Yes, the channel time is a bit on the shorter side, but it is nevertheless something that people can react to fast enough, if they've had that practice. And for a zone-5 dungeon, I think that's fine. You say you aren't comparing it to the Rilis attack, but you are posting that in this thread, and the two really aren't comparable because the latter is something that no human can react to, even if they knew what to look for, which is why every mitigation (e.g., start block-casting at certain intervals) are preemptive ones rather than reactive ones.

    Code, while I usually agree with most of what you write here on the forums, you need to stop being defensive about this instead of continuing along your "I am experienced and know when to anticipate this attack, so there is no problem".

    It's a channeled attack that can be, and is supposed to be, interrupted. It should have the visual cues to indicate that it should be interrupted - i.e. the red lines animation. That's really all there is to it, end of story.

    But... there are red lines. If you are not seeing them, then that could be a graphics problem on your end. There has always been the sparkling-red-lines telegraph on that ability.

    I've been leveling crafting alts lately, and have been doing a lot of normal dungs for the exp. That includes quite a few runs of Blackheart. The red animation doesn't show when he/she does the attack. The only graphical cue is when the boss raises the hand for a very short moment before the bolts shoot out. The red lines that indicated a need for interrupt/bash isn't showing.

    Since I do see every other channeled ability with the red lines, it would seem rather strange if it was only an issue at my end.

    Edited by Carbonised on March 14, 2018 1:55PM
  • code65536
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    @Carbonised I took this screenshot from today's Blackheart pledge. The red interrupt lines are definitely there.
    wavecutter-boss.png
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  • Carbonised
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    Odd. I could swear it wasn't there the last couple of times I did that dungeon. I'll have to pay close attention next time I do it. Thanks for the screen though.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Added extra restiance from warden seems to the trick if they are at full Health
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  • itsfatbass
    itsfatbass
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    Just block cast when he's about to do his soul blast. You'll survive everytime. Blocking is an unusual concept I know...
  • Inanegrain62
    Seems like this is the only thread where someone complained, I'll complain as well.

    As a magsorc dealing with cluttered skill bars and bound aegis to back myself up in scenarios where I have to block, I actually am able to survive if I get really really dedicated into learning when Rilis is about to fire his soul blast. By having 16.1k health, I can block the attack with bound aegis which is about ~14902 dmg received, an unblocked soul blast will just outright kill me with 24k~ dmg.

    It leaves most magsorcs that run full light armor to die from it despite blocking if they don't use shields and also relied on bound armor. I ran a heavy helm which made me pass the 14k hp threshold and allows me to survive blocking most of the time while running 6 light armor cause RNG. Though, I think I would live if I had slotted and activate bound aegis and ward.

    At first I'd think that low health players should dodge, and I should to avoid dying from something unfortunate such as running into fire (As soon as he's done with the aoe fire animation, he can immediately throw out soul blast OR delay it for a few moments before firing it).

    I'd be fine if I was able to live in the scenario mentioned, but I can't as I will take damage from the AOE, this makes the healer more needed to make me live as I won't be pass 14k health and will die from a potential soul blast if I don't block in time or react poorly to dodge. Most of the time I won't be able to dodge for how unexpected it is, I've used to count 10 seconds but now it's varying from 10~17 seconds and a very short window of him casting it. I'm not too sure if that's what causing me to fail my dodges as I was able to dodge it most of the time, sometimes I run out of stam and resort to blocking which happens when I just got revived and only had heals given to me.

    I went through trial and error on figuring out his soul blast due to his lack of tell, and now I'm slapped with varying times, I didn't feel much difference when doing Spindleclutch 1 as I was able to dodge web blast as usual.

    Of course, during the run I had that made me question myself, I did notice that the tank was... unusual and may have not maimed it, either way, I should have had an easier time dodging soul blast. I'll probably get the timing right again after getting pummeled repeatedly again by soul blast. Though, it'll be very eye straining to focus on his hands through the fire...
  • karekiz
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    Agreed. In the whole scheme of things lets look at two encounters that use high bolt fast cast skills

    Spindle 1 And BC1 - Both teired same difficulty

    There are *quite* a few differences in how the mechanics work.

    Spindle 1:
    Boss does a pull in
    Boss does a Knockback spit
    Boss does a high damage bolt - "Blue spider" spit that can kill

    BC1:
    Boss does various AOE flames that require players to move
    Boss does a high damage bolt attack <Rule of thumb after heavy attack>
    Boss spawns orbs that must be dealt with or heals him.

    See the difference? Its quite large if you didn't notice.

    Spindle 1 does not clutter the battlefield. It doesn't divert attention from the boss to another object. This leads to a easier time dodging an attack. Boss turns - immediantly dodge. There are no flames, no orbs, just the boss to focus on. There have been PLENTY of times the boss in BC1 goes: Flame attack -> DPS move to avoid flames -> While DPS move Boss HA's -> It turns and shoots. Its essentially a stacking mechanic in a T1 dungeon. That's not even counting the orbs that are spawing/moving while those 2 mechanics are going on.

    Remember this isn't BC2. This should be balanced for CP 100, players roughly <assuming HM, lower if not HM>. That means you most like won't have:
    Full set of Ebon
    Warhorn rotation <Though that doesn't even matter HP wise anymore>
    Maybe maim <yes maybe>

    Put this into perspective:
    Crypt of Hearts 2 has a bolt attack with a LONG cast time. It doesn't even 1 shot you, even though in all honestly it should.
    Edited by karekiz on October 28, 2018 4:18PM
  • code65536
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    LOL, two years later and people are still digging up this topic. But that's because it hasn't been adjusted. With better defensive power creep, Soul Blast is no longer a 1-shot for any CP-capped player, but this is a tier-1 dungeon...

    karekiz wrote: »
    Boss does a high damage bolt attack <Rule of thumb after heavy attack>
    The first one is after his first fire summon, not after a heavy attack. The second one is a few seconds after a heavy attack. The ones after that follow heavy attacks most of the time, but if his timing ever becomes skewed, the blasts will come in the middle with no landmark cues.
    karekiz wrote: »
    Spindle 1 does not clutter the battlefield. It doesn't divert attention from the boss to another object.
    It's not even a matter of cue clutter. Even if you are staring at the boss, Soul Blast happens so fast (0.1s) that you don't have any reasonable amount of time to react.
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  • tommalmm
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    code65536 wrote: »
    LOL, two years later and people are still digging up this topic. But that's because it hasn't been adjusted. With better defensive power creep, Soul Blast is no longer a 1-shot for any CP-capped player, but this is a tier-1 dungeon...

    Nowadays it's not a big issue, as you said. It's absolutely enough if a tank keeps minor maim for even low CP players to not get one-shotted, not to mention weakening on top of that (though, I'm max CP and I died there recently with 17.7k HP, but it was a positioning error on my part - I got knocked into the fire and healer wasn't fast enough ;) ).

    It's only annoying, because the only measures are preemptive. You either block in advance or shield yourself in advance. There is no telegraph, or at least the telegraph is immediately followed by cast.

    Someone mentioned vSC. It's quite different. In spindleclutch before she turns to you and actually spits the projectile, there is a whole lot of time to dodge. The only issue might be positioning (so it's not obvious who is she turning to). So in fact people are dying there only if they do not know mechanics or are unable to position themselves correctly.

    In vBC if you see him turning to you, it's already too late to do anything (the input lag+monitor lag might be higher in some cases, especially in mine, because I'm not using a typical PC monitor but rather a big TV). Blockcasting works (with loss of DPS and resources, obviously), just as shielding (with loss of resources and DPS). That being said, I was actually able to dodge his soul blast quite a few times, but it was more like a hunch rather than a reaction (the dodge window is long enough so that it doesn't have to be very accurate).
    Edited by tommalmm on October 29, 2018 10:39AM
  • Sparr0w
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    It is skillfull: use shields.....or
    don´t go melee into that fight

    100% l2p issue

    Can agree I've solo'd HM before on a stamsorc. However many of the pug groups I run with do get one shot from this so can agree with the OP too.
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  • SaltySudd
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    I really don't have an issue with this mechanic from a tank, dps, or healer perspective. It doesn't annoy me as a tank that a single, telegraphed attack ignores my aggro. It doesn't annoy me as a dps that the boss might target me with a single, telegraphed attack which can easily be roll dodged/blocked. It doesn't annoy me as a healer that the boss might target me or a dps with a single, telegraphed attack which can be dodged/blocked. I have tanked/dps'ed/healed this dungeon countless times and never once did I think the mechanic should be changed or removed since it is a single, telegraphed attack which can be easily dodged/blocked.

    It just causes the dps/healer to actually become aware instead of zoning out while spanking the boss :)
    Stop exploiting players.
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    code65536 wrote: »
    @ZOS_Finn
    The final boss in Banished Cells I has an ability called Soul Blast (or something similar--I don't recall its exact name). The boss picks a player at random, turns towards them, and launches a projectile that, if unblocked or undodged, will knock the player down.

    Been one-shotted by that guy more times than i care to remember and i agree with your assessment, there is no telegraph for that attack and the only time i even have a sliver of a chance to survice is if my health and/or shields are maxed *and* i happen to already be blocking.

    It's a stupid "you dead" mechanic that has nothing to do with skill (or lack thereof) ...
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  • TheNightflame
    TheNightflame
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    the whisperer I feel has a good telegraph (my group does all three achievements at once when leveling undaunted on new toons). as long as you see where she's facing, you can dodgeroll. rillis is a little harder to keep track of but the whisperer is fine
  • SaltySudd
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    i agree with your assessment, there is no telegraph for that attack and the only time i even have a sliver of a chance to survice is if my health and/or shields are maxed *and* i happen to already be blocking

    But there is a telegraph. The boss will turn towards the player he's about to attack and will extend his hand. It can easily be dodged. It just requires a quick reaction. The tank needs to face the boss away from the group and all 3 other players have to stand behind the boss but spread out enough so that everyone can tell who is going to be targeted.
    Stop exploiting players.
  • RoyalPink06
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    Agree, my friend. This ability makes me rage, especially when it targets me repeatedly (random my ass) when I’m on my dps. As you say, there is no discernible telegraph. Nothing I’m more tired of in this game than getting cc’d or knocked down.
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  • Sparr0w
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    SaltySudd wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    i agree with your assessment, there is no telegraph for that attack and the only time i even have a sliver of a chance to survice is if my health and/or shields are maxed *and* i happen to already be blocking

    But there is a telegraph. The boss will turn towards the player he's about to attack and will extend his hand. It can easily be dodged. It just requires a quick reaction. The tank needs to face the boss away from the group and all 3 other players have to stand behind the boss but spread out enough so that everyone can tell who is going to be targeted.

    Heavy attack > pause > turn & fire
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  • SaltySudd
    SaltySudd
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    Sparr0w wrote: »

    Heavy attack > pause > turn & fire

    Exactly! The boss always follows this rotation. He will heavy attack the tank, turn and shoot the ball at someone, then go back to attacking the tank (occassionally raising his sword for the fire phase). So after he has shot somebody you know that he is not going to do it again until after his next heavy attack, and when he does it is telegraphed.
    Stop exploiting players.
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    SaltySudd wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    i agree with your assessment, there is no telegraph for that attack and the only time i even have a sliver of a chance to survice is if my health and/or shields are maxed *and* i happen to already be blocking
    But there is a telegraph. The boss will turn towards the player he's about to attack and will extend his hand. It can easily be dodged. It just requires a quick reaction. The tank needs to face the boss away from the group and all 3 other players have to stand behind the boss but spread out enough so that everyone can tell who is going to be targeted.

    Well, that explains that. Most of my unlucky encounters with this guy were when soloing that dungeon.

    He's always facing me ...
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  • NordSwordnBoard
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    One of those bosses where shield ultimates can be better than ones that buff damage during the execute phase to prevent death.
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  • code65536
    code65536
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    SaltySudd wrote: »
    Sparr0w wrote: »

    Heavy attack > pause > turn & fire

    Exactly! The boss always follows this rotation. He will heavy attack the tank, turn and shoot the ball at someone, then go back to attacking the tank (occassionally raising his sword for the fire phase). So after he has shot somebody you know that he is not going to do it again until after his next heavy attack, and when he does it is telegraphed.

    I feel like a broken record at this point, since I've said this probably half a dozen times now: That does not "always" happen. That pattern holds for the third blast onward most of the time. But if his timing gets skewed, it will not follow that pattern.

    I.e., the blast following a heavy attack is a matter of coincidence, not of design.
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  • luton0watford4
    luton0watford4
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    According to the bandit ui add-on, the soul burst is every 12 seconds.

    I will give it another go today to retest it, as I only noticed it towards the end if the fight.
    Edited by luton0watford4 on November 4, 2018 9:21AM
  • Lieblingsjunge
    Lieblingsjunge
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    I enjoy that mechanic. I mean - if you pay attention to the boss animationyou'll see that he 1) Spawns those blue circles, once the last circle is almost done = He'll throw the Soul Blast. (Ez dodge the last circle he spawns on you).

    Then he'll light attack, light attack, light attack, heavy attack, light attack => Fire.

    Just pay attention to the boss mechanics and that thing is ezpz. It's one of the dungeons that actually rewards you, if you know the mechanic, instead of being just a "Hitting-HP-Sponges-With-DPS".
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  • Inanegrain62
    I enjoy that mechanic. I mean - if you pay attention to the boss animationyou'll see that he 1) Spawns those blue circles, once the last circle is almost done = He'll throw the Soul Blast. (Ez dodge the last circle he spawns on you).

    Then he'll light attack, light attack, light attack, heavy attack, light attack => Fire.

    Just pay attention to the boss mechanics and that thing is ezpz. It's one of the dungeons that actually rewards you, if you know the mechanic, instead of being just a "Hitting-HP-Sponges-With-DPS".

    Not sure if it was changed in the patch as I have not tried BC1 recently.

    The fight I had that annoyed me had an unusual pattern which was very not the pattern you mentioned. The very annoying part was how short the window to dodge soul blast I had. I can tell the projectile speed of SC and BC to be very different, SC was slow and seen easily during the fight while in BC, the blast is nearly instant after he does a 360 and blasts someone, the timing was off between 10-17 seconds. Will do it again the next time it appears in the pledge.
  • Rungar
    Rungar
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    i believe the old warhorn made that survivable for most players so you might see that more often now without a warden.
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  • Noldornir
    Noldornir
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    I main a Tank an in that role u only realize that boss is ignoring you for a split second. Almost all bosses has such a mechanich.

    I also have a DD alt tho and i can tell what helps me:

    If i'm not standing behind tank (and i rly should never do, best place for DDs is behind BOSS hitting him in the back).

    This way rilis (or whisperer) MUST turn toward me BEFORE shooting so i have all time to react (if he turns block or dodge).

    Of course this cant work if i'm just too lazy and stay where the tank is (or behind him) because i'm really making Rilis boss easier since he don't need to turn anymore.

    Also, if the boos is maimed (and he should be) he shouldn't oneshot anyone. On these bosses u rly need to make sure those debuffs nevers run out (i use heroic slash+weakening-infused weapon on off bar to that purpuse).

    BTW the fact a tank is there does not mean DDs n healers should be glass cannons and it's rly hard to be killed by Rilis in vBC I tbh
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