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Veteran Banished Cells I HM - Soul Blast

code65536
code65536
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@ZOS_Finn

The final boss in Banished Cells I has an ability called Soul Blast (or something similar--I don't recall its exact name). The boss picks a player at random, turns towards them, and launches a projectile that, if unblocked or undodged, will knock the player down.
  1. This ability ignores taunt since it targets players at random.
  2. This ability has virtually no warning/telegraph. He turns and immediately fires, and players only have a split-second to react. It's very difficult to avoid even for players with good ping and FPS and is impossible to avoid for players who don't.
  3. The damage from this ability is extremely high. With a CP-capped magicka character wearing 5/1/1 with 19.5K health (and that's with the help of the tank's Ebon buff), the ability hits for 19.1K and is just a sliver shy of a 1-shot. But for many characters, particularly those who don't have the extra mitigation and health of a CP-capped player and the help of an Ebon buff, the ability is a 1-shot, and for most players who are not fully topped-up on health, it's a 1-shot.
  4. In contrast, Rilis's other high-burst ability--his heavy attack--has a clear telegraph and a sufficiently long windup to allow a player to react and get their block up. That ability also respects taunt.
  5. In contrast, Nerien'eth's big skull attack and Skoria's fireball attack, which are the closest analogues that I can think of (they too ignores taunt, do a tremendous amount of damage that can potentially 1-shot, and knock the player down if the player survives), both have clear cues and sufficiently long windups to allow a player to react and either dodge or block.

Mechanics should reward skillful play.
  • If the ability respected taunt, then it would reward groups with a competent tank, but it ignores taunt.
  • If the ability did less damage, then it would reward healers who can react quickly, but in its current state, it is often a 1-shot, and there is nothing a healer can do about it.
  • If the ability had a reasonable warning, then it would reward players who are paying attention and who can react to avoid damage, but unlike almost other all the high-burst boss abilities in the game, such as his heavy attack, Nerien'eth's big skull attack, or Skoria's fireball, this ability does not give anyone a reasonable amount of time to react.
Changing any one of these would make this boss ability more interesting and promote skillful play. But until that happens, this attack is nothing more than a case of poor artificial difficulty and RNG punishment.


PS: As someone who frequently tanks, I'm really not a fan of abilities that ignore taunt, as they just call into question why the tank is even needed. I've done the Rilis fight without a tank, and it's not any more difficult because his heavy attack has enough of a warning that a DPS can block it in time, and this Soul Blast ability ignores taunt. And Rilis is not the only offender. For example, the Whisperer in Spindleclutch I and the Spawn of Mephala in Fungal Grotto II both have an ability that is almost an exactly like Rilis's. They'll turn to a random player and quickly fire off a ball that hits hard and knocked them on their back. And as a tank, it's very frustrating to see that happening and knowing that there's absolutely nothing that I could do about it.
Edited by code65536 on November 12, 2016 9:59PM
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  • efster
    efster
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    Yes. Also, Drodda. As far as I have been able to tell, she just straight up ignores taunt entirely and blasts at whomever she wishes.
    AD is the best looking faction. Sorry, I don't make the rules.

    efster - PC NA AD Bosmer Swiss Army Nightblade • AR36 • vMA • Master Angler
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  • strikeback1247
    strikeback1247
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    I really don't have a problem with that ability. You can always see him charge up his attack and then he turns to a random player and fires. I always dodgeroll after he charges even if he doesn't target me, just to be sure.
    P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    I have to agree completely with the OP. The lack of a telegraph, the huge damage and the lack of taunt aggro makes this a difficult attack. Not sure what ZoS is thinking here. While you can deal with it, the ability is out of line compared to other similar abilities as mentioned in the original post which makes me wonder if the current implementation is intended.
    Bal-Busters - PC/NA
  • yodased
    yodased
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    1s after his wind up heavy attack he will shoot his wad. Block directly after heavy attack or prepre to dodge.

    Use his heavy uppercut slash attack as your warning
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • Yo_Donno
    Yo_Donno
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    Totally agree with OP. Not only is the telegraph extremely short but its hard to see with all the blue fire AOEs he puts down.

    Also very frustrating for people who want a no-death run on this dungeon (and vSpindleclutch I) because any dps or healers that could reasonably survive this would have to compromise a lot of dps or sustain.

    In general, attacks that avoid taunts should be low damage AOEs, but absolutely should have a reasonable telegraph.
  • SickDuck
    SickDuck
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    Had a lot of deaths because of this. Damage should be slightly reduced or give it a clear indication + reaction time. To make things worst Rilis likes to have fun knocking you down into the fire, just in case it wasn't a one-hit already.
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  • Preyfar
    Preyfar
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    The cast time needs to be increased. The only way to have a chance to avoid it is to do the fight ranged. Melee have almost no chance to block the attack given the fast cast time (and high damage).
  • Reorx_Holybeard
    Reorx_Holybeard
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    yodased wrote: »
    1s after his wind up heavy attack he will shoot his wad. Block directly after heavy attack or prepre to dodge.

    Use his heavy uppercut slash attack as your warning

    Usually but not always unfortunately. He can also cast it right after his normal light attack or really anytime. The few times I've done this dungeon's hard mode as a DPS/Healer I switch to all healthy jewelry giving me 20-22k health and tend to block whenever I'm not focused on the boss. As a healer its not too bad as if you're at max range you can usually anticipate when he's going to cast it and block in preparation. As a melee DPS, however, its close to impossible to avoid all the time.

    Edited by Reorx_Holybeard on November 13, 2016 2:29PM
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  • Lukums1
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    We do this with 3 dps and 1 healer.

    Because taunt always seems an issue running banished cells with a tank is pointless and useless.

    You can easily dodge.

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  • Martan
    Martan
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    He casts Soul Blast every 10th or 11th second. Just count.
    Edited by Martan on November 17, 2016 4:59PM
  • Karius_Imalthar
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    This ability does kill people but I think it's something that you just have to be prepared for. If i'm right this seems to come soon after he drops his fire so it might just be worth block casting for a moment until it goes off.
  • pattyLtd
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    Really love tanking atm but it should be beneficial in at least all veteran dungeons which it not always is.
    It's fine that some dungeons can be done without a tank but at least make it so that it's always somewhat easier/favorable to bring a tank along and if it's nothing they breaking there own game IMHO.
    Edited by pattyLtd on November 18, 2016 11:29AM
    English is not my native language, no grammar police please, tyvm
  • Mojmir
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    Ran it last night for first time OT, it's a BS move. The drops aren't even worth the headache of dealing with it.lol
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
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  • Reorx_Holybeard
    Reorx_Holybeard
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    Martan wrote: »
    He casts Soul Blast every 10th or 11th second. Just count.

    I was timing it and got anywhere between 13 and 18 seconds between Soul Blasts. It depends on what his previous ability was and how long it took to channel/cast. It can seem like it does after every X ability but that changes depending on the exact nature of the fight. I've seen him cast it after every ability he does.
    Edited by Reorx_Holybeard on November 18, 2016 3:55PM
    Reorx Holybeard -- NA/PC
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  • ChandraNalaar
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    Yes. Also, Drodda. As far as I have been able to tell, she just straight up ignores taunt entirely and blasts at whomever she wishes.

    Yes, she does. Also her big red ground aoe is incredibly difficult for colorblind players to see. Could we get a patch for that, @ZOS_GinaBruno ? Some form of aid for the colorblind among us? :expressionless:
  • jk1103b16_ESO
    jk1103b16_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    bump, this is bs
  • Reorx_Holybeard
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    Martan wrote: »
    He casts Soul Blast every 10th or 11th second. Just count.
    code65536 wrote: »
    @ZOS_Finn Did someone accidentally leave off a zero?

    I was doing some testing with a custom addon collecting raw data of all the combat events in that fight. It turns out that Soul Blast officially has a cast time of 100 milliseconds. Are you sure it's not supposed to be 1000ms? 1s would've be more reasonable, since nobody can react within 0.1s.

    (The green resource drain arrow in vDSA has a 1910ms cast time; why is avoiding a mechanic in a tier-1 vet dungeon 19x harder than avoiding a mechanic in a vet 4-man trial?)

    Assuming that it is this skill then it is indeed a 100ms cast time from the game data itself. Interesting!
    Edited by Reorx_Holybeard on January 26, 2017 9:22PM
    Reorx Holybeard -- NA/PC
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  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    It is skillfull: use shields.....or
    don´t go melee into that fight

    100% l2p issue
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  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    It is skillfull: use shields.....or
    don´t go melee into that fight

    100% l2p issue

    I was gonna say ward too.

    Then Pet.

    Then my Shepherd build that solos veteran Banished Cells 1 and 2

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  • Cronopoly
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    I Tank this with a high HP DK Shield Tank with 2K mag regen, so my mates nearly always have Igneous on them. HM isn't a problem. Even if a squishy isn't using a shield, I cast one for him typically more than half their HP and I can tell when someone has Bastion because the shield will go 80or 90% of their HP's. this makes the healers job way easier. Different tactics is all.

    P.S.
    I got bored of the 2 year traditional "just hold block builds"... And because I only block boss HA's, I can spend more time repositioning and yanking ranged healers and DD's into the AOE pile, Taunting/Chains while in my rotation. I'm way better at it now with practice but that OP mechanic is not a serious problem now.

  • cbaudersub17_ESO
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    Surprised this hasn't been pointed out, but maybe players other than tanks need to be mindful of their available health pool. Sure you can shave it down IF you know what you are doing and with a competent group. Live and heal rather the wait for rez.


    @Cronopoly, run one as well; but run a few other varieties on other characters too. One thing I notice with my shield tank is that others get too comfortable standing where the shouldn't and the blood carnage can get the healer too DPS focused. Alone and on trash, not really an issue. But when they happen together on a boss, I am usually taking a moment to pick up people. Still good fun and a great setup to introduce others to harder content.
  • Cronopoly
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    @Cronopoly, run one as well; but run a few other varieties on other characters too. One thing I notice with my shield tank is that others get too comfortable standing where the shouldn't and the blood carnage can get the healer too DPS focused. Alone and on trash, not really an issue. But when they happen together on a boss, I am usually taking a moment to pick up people. Still good fun and a great setup to introduce others to harder content.

    I see the same. The repeating Shields sometimes gets the healer and rest of group too comfortable, and many of them stand in Red circles , and even overlapping reds, some of which God could not heal or shield through. :o

    That said, as you know we can take an entire team of undergeared persons through a Vet dungeon and while it make take twice or three times as long due to typically low DPS, we can teach them the fight mechanics while the dungeon gets eventually cleared....eventually :*

    A sub 100 cp DD asked me just yesterday "why are you at cp561 running this dungeon with us when you don't need to?", I told him that one day he might do the same to someone who asks for help... o:)


  • stupiddog
    stupiddog
    I couldn't agree more with the OP. It is a shame how this game treats players working from beginner to the intermediate stage. Even more frustrating is that ZOS seems to be too lazy to even respond to the problem, let alone fix it. If that is the quality I can expect from the next expansion then, well, No Thanks.
  • Mix
    Mix
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    Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but it came up on my search. I just went to help a guildmate on this fight and was rather shocked how hard this blue stunning ball hit for. Soul Blast.

    I was trying to watch for a way to dodge or have enough time to block but (mDK here) between running to kill feasts and avoiding fire and dps'ing Rilis.

    It honestly felt like we were missing a mechanic (apparently I hadn't run vBC1 since I got the bust when we downed him lol)

    It one shot our healer and the other dps repeatedly - I lived with Harness Magicka and Dragon Blood immediately after being hit (and I def don't have 100% uptime on Harness Magicka, just kinda tossed it up when I could).

    Since it isn't an avoidable mechanic I regret not trying Igneous Shield - although mine isn't that great! (Templar was a tank, not sure what they have...)
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  • BuddyAces
    BuddyAces
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    Hardest freaking 4 man in the game outside of some dlc ones for the simple fact that this fella just randomly blasts someone at will with no cast time. Also, seen on multiple times, he will do this randomly. Non tank party member gets killed by insta gib shot, someone goes to rez and then they too get blasted. No time to react with it. Put a cast timer on this dude.
    They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
  • Sjizzle
    Sjizzle
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    lol another player who wish dungeon nerfs.... what the hell ...u must be joking if u think that BC last boss is hard and u can not survive there.... and it's not the hardest non DLC 4 man dungeon there are plenty of harder dungeon with same 1 shot mechanics there ...BC is the easiest one
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