Joy_Division wrote: »The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.
Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?
OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?
I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.
But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
- Shields no longer have a cast time
- My shield is larger in PvP
- Frag damage nerf got reverted
- Dark Exchange was improved
I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.
So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.
I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...
The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.Malem_Benign wrote: »Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.Malem_Benign wrote: »What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.
It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.
Already posted above the allegory.
In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?
Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.Malem_Benign wrote: »What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.
It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.
Because there could have been useful feedback in getting the colour of the walls right. In some way there even was.Malem_Benign wrote: »The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.Malem_Benign wrote: »Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.Malem_Benign wrote: »What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.
It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.
Already posted above the allegory.
In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?
In other words - "we do what we want". First honest answer on the forum for the past few weeks. Thanks for that.
Well, that's fine, I can accept that, but why you talk about the useful feedback then? There is no useful feedback possible when things made this way. It's an illusion of feedback nothing more.
Because there could have been useful feedback in getting the colour of the walls right. In some way there even was.Malem_Benign wrote: »The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.Malem_Benign wrote: »Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.Malem_Benign wrote: »What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.
It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.
Already posted above the allegory.
In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?
In other words - "we do what we want". First honest answer on the forum for the past few weeks. Thanks for that.
Well, that's fine, I can accept that, but why you talk about the useful feedback then? There is no useful feedback possible when things made this way. It's an illusion of feedback nothing more.
The landlord originally wanted to just remove the wall entirely (casting times) but we explained how we didn't feel that was good for the rented accommodation. So instead they agreed to put back the wall, but it would have to be repainted. Then we sat there saying we hated all the colours.
As I've said elsewhere, you won't and can't stop ZOS making changes you don't desire, it's their game and they will do what they want. We can however do our best to advise why and how things could be better done. Screaming "I hate this" doesn't do that very well.
Because there could have been useful feedback in getting the colour of the walls right. In some way there even was.Malem_Benign wrote: »The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.Malem_Benign wrote: »Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.Malem_Benign wrote: »What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.
It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.
Already posted above the allegory.
In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?
In other words - "we do what we want". First honest answer on the forum for the past few weeks. Thanks for that.
Well, that's fine, I can accept that, but why you talk about the useful feedback then? There is no useful feedback possible when things made this way. It's an illusion of feedback nothing more.
The landlord originally wanted to just remove the wall entirely (casting times) but we explained how we didn't feel that was good for the rented accommodation. So instead they agreed to put back the wall, but it would have to be repainted. Then we sat there saying we hated all the colours.
As I've said elsewhere, you won't and can't stop ZOS making changes you don't desire, it's their game and they will do what they want. We can however do our best to advise why and how things could be better done. Screaming "I hate this" doesn't do that very well.
Dear @ZOS_RobGarrett
So.... How's that revenue looking? I see you're down just a few subscriptions, and I'm sorry to see that.
Hopefully you guys can fix this before someone important notices the shortfall. I recommend more rainbow sparkle pony mounts in the clown store.
Dear @ZOS_RobGarrett
So.... How's that revenue looking? I see you're down just a few subscriptions, and I'm sorry to see that.
Hopefully you guys can fix this before someone important notices the shortfall. I recommend more rainbow sparkle pony mounts in the clown store.
@Minalan Where can you find financial statements? I will go analyze right now!
Joy_Division wrote: »The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.
Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?
OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?
I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.
But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
- Shields no longer have a cast time
- My shield is larger in PvP
- Frag damage nerf got reverted
- Dark Exchange was improved
I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.
So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.
I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...
Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.Malem_Benign wrote: »What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.
It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.
Joy_Division wrote: »The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.
Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?
OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?
I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.
But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
- Shields no longer have a cast time
- My shield is larger in PvP
- Frag damage nerf got reverted
- Dark Exchange was improved
I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.
So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.
I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...
Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.
Pre Murkmire -
1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.
2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory
3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile
4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use
5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.
Post Murkmire -
1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.
2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory
3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile
4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.
5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.
6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.
7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.
8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong
9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.
Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?
Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.
Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?
OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?
I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.
But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
- Shields no longer have a cast time
- My shield is larger in PvP
- Frag damage nerf got reverted
- Dark Exchange was improved
I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.
So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.
I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...
Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.
Pre Murkmire -
1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.
2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory
3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile
4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use
5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.
Post Murkmire -
1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.
2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory
3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile
4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.
5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.
6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.
7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.
8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong
9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.
Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?
You're barking up the wrong tree. I didn't nerf your class. And you don't have to waste time talking to me at all. Go ahead and be quiet or continue to bitterly type out that your class sucks. Suit yourself, I don't care.
I asked because a lot has changed since that thread was started and if a realistic conversation is going to be had, then the positive changes that ZOS has made has to part of that conversation because ZOS is going to bring those up in a meeting.
Zos most certainly does not heed the reps advice at times. But they have in some cases, notably with the classes, with templars. So it's possible with objective argument.
Joy_Division wrote: »The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.
Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?
OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?
I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.
But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
- Shields no longer have a cast time
- My shield is larger in PvP
- Frag damage nerf got reverted
- Dark Exchange was improved
I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.
So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.
I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...
Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.
Pre Murkmire -
1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.
2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory
3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile
4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use
5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.
Post Murkmire -
1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.
2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory
3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile
4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.
5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.
6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.
7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.
8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong
9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.
Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?
Joy_Division wrote: »The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.
Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?
OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?
I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.
But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:
- Shields no longer have a cast time
- My shield is larger in PvP
- Frag damage nerf got reverted
- Dark Exchange was improved
I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.
So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.
I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...
Oh thank you, this is easy, below are my pain points pre-Murkmire, and then pain points post-Murkmire.
Pre Murkmire -
1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.
2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory
3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile
4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use
5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.
Post Murkmire -
1. Streak cost increase - Streak cost increase makes the skill ineffective as a method for kiting (unlike Cloak etc.) because stamina players have spammable gap closers with snares, with no additional cost increase.
2. Buffs/Debuffs - countless threads pore over the data here, self explanatory
3. Surge - should be brought in line with other self heal skills - buffs to healing received, etc. the works should all apply to surge the same way they apply for other classes now that so many classes have easy access to defile
4. Overload - Overload bar extremely clunky, should be a reliable single target burst skill - DBOS is one of the best ultimates in the game, not even class specific, our class defining ultimate should be easy to use - You made it less clunky by allowing us to use it with other skills - but the animation still locks up, isn't clean, and you can get stuck doing heavy attacks still - therefore it's still just as clunky as before - not really a fix, more of a band aid, and then you cut the dmg by 50%, making it not even close to other classes ultimates, that have no visible tells and can instagib you, we get a slow moving projectile that can be easily dodged.
5. Rune Cage & Skill bar Space - you gutted a skill that was a hard counter to dodge roll spamming cloaking NB's, now made it worthless, and pigeon holed most sorcerer's into running Reach for PVP. Every single Sorc PVP build will be cookie cutter reach skill bars.
6. Shields - by implementing crit resist on shields, but not allowing shields to crit, and also reducing their strength according to max health, you've nerfed their effectiveness without providing Sorc any other reliable means for defense, you've also completely eliminated the CP star Bastion, your shield values are still bugged. Also, shield stacking was never a problem against any competent player, in fact, Sorc defense was low. Sorc Defense needed to be high in PVE because it gave us enough effective HP to live through boss one shots without sacrificing our DPS, which was already on the significantly low spectrum in comparison to equally skilled DPS stamblades, etc. making it harder to find raid spots as a MagSorc with serious guilds.
7. Boundless Storm nerf - you nerfed the major expedition, which was really the only reason to take this skill, as far as I know the skill has a 5m range, which forces you to be in melee range - is not a strong deterrent from people inflicting melee damage - and the resists it provides to a LA user are worthless considering how much more impen we will need to now stack to counter crit damage on shields - this was a mobility tool but you took away the mobility - don't see the point of that.
8. Frags travel time - we already have some seriously easy to see skills to dodge - Reach is easily dodgeable / reflectable, Rune Cage is not easily predicted, Frags is easy to see coming, Overload is easy to see coming. Everything in our kit can be dodged by a competent player except for Curse - which doesn't do enough damage consistently to pressure anyone, allowing them to pull out DPS us while dodge rolling continuously and still having enough stamina sustain to continue dodge rolling and breaking free if we do land hard CC - this pigeon holes us into using cost increase poisons - if you don't use cost increase poison as a sorc you're doing something wrong
9. Hard CC - the only very reliable hard CC we had was Rune cage, this was nerfed. Now the Sorc class has absolutely zero hard CC in its kit.
Helpful for you? I don't see why you forced me to waste my time responding to you, when you admitted yourself in other threads that the class reps are being ignored. You told them shields didn't need touching, they touched them. You told them about Sorc skill bar issues, they made it worse. I don't know how to define a white knight, but I think you might be it, ZOS is using you as fodder for the rest of the community so that they don't need to do their jobs. You don't even get paid to be their mule or punching bag of the community and they don't bother to listen to your expertise, so.....are you a white knight?
Malem_Benign wrote: »It... Hasn't?
You got shields changed to a usable state, and in certain situations its buffed. Dark deal was slightly unnerfed. Frags got a bit more dmg on it.
Yeah they have done everything their own way, as usual. But Warden, DK and templar have had literally no changed based on feedback. At all. So not ignored.
Are you sure? Usable state? Do you play sorc or no? Seems like no.
Warden also was nerfed btw. Especially tank build. No damage and aggro anymore.
So what could it be? A message from the, I don't know player from other game?
I did say there were useful posts later, and you did champion the most useful non-official thread. I just wanted to make a point to everyone saying "65 pages" that in reality it wasn't entirely 65 pages of useful feedback.Turelus
It’s awesome you deliberately picked my short posts where I was just voicing my disbelief. All I do is rant I guess.
Your landlord has a funny idea of treating his residents. While he dismantled the wall on one side he makes the next neighbor’s room even nicer (Bleeds and Enchant procs) while both pay the same.
How can anyone justify these “adjustments” when the already favored spec just got more goodies (the Major Expedition Nerf hits everyone)?
I did say there were useful posts later, and you did champion the most useful non-official thread. I just wanted to make a point to everyone saying "65 pages" that in reality it wasn't entirely 65 pages of useful feedback.Turelus
It’s awesome you deliberately picked my short posts where I was just voicing my disbelief. All I do is rant I guess.
Your landlord has a funny idea of treating his residents. While he dismantled the wall on one side he makes the next neighbor’s room even nicer (Bleeds and Enchant procs) while both pay the same.
How can anyone justify these “adjustments” when the already favored spec just got more goodies (the Major Expedition Nerf hits everyone)?
The landlord idea was stupid, but honestly the debate was getting to the point I was giving up trying to get my point across.
TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562
TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562
However in the thread Rich replied well to everyone who was constructive and joining in the right way. He only told someone who was being a jerk they didn't have to be in that thread.TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562
This caught my attention. What's worrisome, is that at the time I looked that post up, it had a staggering 83 awesomes.
I don't judge Rich, his reaction was human and appropriate. But it was also unhelpful and unfriendly. Not awesome.
I see players trying hard to provide constructive feedback and insights. They often receive smug comments and belittlement for their efforts. Yet, a ZOS employee can post... this, and gets a ton of praise. Hm...
This community must drop the rose-tinted glasses, shatter them and throw a nuclear bomb at the fragments.
However in the thread Rich replied well to everyone who was constructive and joining in the right way. He only told someone who was being a jerk they didn't have to be in that thread.TBH I wish ZOS had more freedom to reply like that more often, there are more than a few snarky posters on these forums who deserve to be called out for it. His reply was pretty fair (IMO) considering he was doing an AMA of sorts and someone wanted to make a snarky comment to him.They DID respond years ago, and it covers everything since. "you know you don't have to be here right?" After that, what else is there? I don't agree with the changes, I'm watching as it almost seems they are headed towards forced grouping(and EQ was enough of that for me thank you) but it's their game, win or fail.
Link for those who want to judge for themselves.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562
This caught my attention. What's worrisome, is that at the time I looked that post up, it had a staggering 83 awesomes.
I don't judge Rich, his reaction was human and appropriate. But it was also unhelpful and unfriendly. Not awesome.
I see players trying hard to provide constructive feedback and insights. They often receive smug comments and belittlement for their efforts. Yet, a ZOS employee can post... this, and gets a ton of praise. Hm...
This community must drop the rose-tinted glasses, shatter them and throw a nuclear bomb at the fragments.
ZOS staff shouldn't have to put up with the kind of snark they get from people. They're more than willing to take constructive criticism about the game and their updates, for those that have attended any events Rich has been at he's very approachable and will try to answer the hard blunt questions. However if you're a jerk about it, don't expect engagement.
Also if anyone is posting smug comments or belittling other community members in a thread and you feel it's not fair on the poster. Hit the report button for that post, normally reported posts are moderated within a couple of hours if ZOS agrees with your assessment of it.