Why is 65 pages of Customer Feedback regarding the Sorc class being ignored?

MalagenR

The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

SHADOW2KK

Cos ZoS does whatever it wants, and has done since 2014, you will get used to it.

Vahrokh

MalagenR wrote: »

The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

Because if they reply, they give the impression we have a point and therefore we'd ask for changes.
By not replying, they show they are going to enforce the changes in our throats and we have to deal with it.

Sadly, they are right, most players are not going to respond appropriately as they'd do in other MMOs (mass unsubs, and very blatant demostrations (see other MMOs "riots" for info). Most are just going to be peaceful guys and take whatever is being thrown at them.

jcm2606

More like why is 99% of the threads in this section being ignored? Sorc isn't the only thing being wrongfully nerfed.

qbit

They reverted the cast time...

I main a magsorc. No idea yet how shields will be impacted in game play since I dumped my sig other abit ago and am at the pub.

VaranisArano

Just because ZOS is listening and reading your PTS comments doesn't mean they are going to run the game the way you think it should be run.

If it did, I'm pretty sure we wouldnt have had the Great Sustain Nerfs of Morrowind, and Templars definitely wouldnt have been butchered to buff Wardens.

When the Devs and the players have different priorities, its the Devs who make the game. All players can do is vote with their pocketbook.

Sleep724

jcm2606 wrote: »

More like why is 99% of the threads in this section being ignored? Sorc isn't the only thing being wrongfully nerfed.

This. I stopped reading them because it’s almost pointless. Other classes have been ignored a lot longer than Sorc has ie DK, Templar.

eso_nya

50% of the "feedback" threads were just whining, screaming and ranting. No arguments, no numbers, nothing usefull. The other half was "positive feedback" like "u finally got what u deserved", "they DO listen to the community". Noone with half a braincell would bother reading that.

Or was the complaint that they didnt listen to valuable feedback like "u can just delete the class" and deleted all the sorc chars?

ak_pvp

It... Hasn't?

You got shields changed to a usable state, and in certain situations its buffed. Dark deal was slightly unnerfed. Frags got a bit more dmg on it.

Yeah they have done everything their own way, as usual. But Warden, DK and templar have had literally no changed based on feedback. At all. So not ignored.

Nebthet78

Because ZOS doesn't give a *** and it shows.

BalticBlues

ZOS devs probably play other games in their free time...

ESO players having other chars than Sorc can switch to them.
However, many occasional players with only a Sorc will now stop playing.
My daugther now plays Overwatch, and I switch to my Templar and NB.

RIP SORC, MY ONCE FAVORITE CLASS.

Malem_Benign

ak_pvp wrote: »

It... Hasn't?

You got shields changed to a usable state, and in certain situations its buffed. Dark deal was slightly unnerfed. Frags got a bit more dmg on it.

Yeah they have done everything their own way, as usual. But Warden, DK and templar have had literally no changed based on feedback. At all. So not ignored.

Are you sure? Usable state? Do you play sorc or no? Seems like no.

Warden also was nerfed btw. Especially tank build. No damage and aggro anymore.

So what could it be? A message from the, I don't know player from other game?

Malem_Benign

eso_nya wrote: »

50% of the "feedback" threads were just whining, screaming and ranting. No arguments, no numbers, nothing usefull. The other half was "positive feedback" like "u finally got what u deserved", "they DO listen to the community". Noone with half a braincell would bother reading that.

Or was the complaint that they didnt listen to valuable feedback like "u can just delete the class" and deleted all the sorc chars?

What argument do you need?
I supposed that right in reverse - that the one who brings changes should share the strong arguments. Especially why you change something that worked well for a lot of years.

raistin87

You guys are going to have a lot of fun in this patch.

Pro tip: When you see someone with DW, just start streaking away without hesitation. Or start mashing the respawn button

Turelus

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

Malem_Benign

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS devs probably play other games in their free time...

ESO players having other chars than Sorc can switch to them.
However, many occasional players with only a Sorc will now stop playing.
My daugther now plays Overwatch, and I switch to my Templar and NB.

RIP SORC, MY ONCE FAVORITE CLASS.

Most of the casual players play Pet Sorc. Because it's pleasant, it's easy enough to play for a few hours every day, and to get satisfied.
Now they got no shield to save from multi-shots or KOs, and pets die. Without any reason btw. Because there were NO reasonable explanation for all that nerfs except "we want to make it more good and less bad". Really?

Malem_Benign

Turelus wrote: »

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

Wrong. Right in reverse. That's the one who's going to bring change should share strong arguments, not the ones that defend that's already exist and work for years.

Nobody talks about making all the way each customer asks. No idiots here, stop distorting the stream. But you have to work with the community, and if there are 65 pages in the topic asking "why?" you should come and say why if you're 100% sure that it will be good for the game, for all of us at the end of the day. But not the abstract "becuase it's good, we know it". Really? It's we who play your game, not you, btw. Meaning players can know the mechanics and balance inside the game sometimes better than devs that mostly staring at their dry statistic charts.

Sygil05

Turelus wrote: »

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

@Turelus ,

I agree that it would be stupid to run the game based only on player feedback and opinions, and that the Devs/ZOS are free to do as they please until the game is turned off. Of course, that's not what the OP asked for, and isn't a tangent we need to go down.

There are some pretty drastic changes being implemented in this patch, and based on the excessive number of redundant posts (that you have specifically complained about in a different thread), a not insignificant number of players are seriously unhappy with the upcoming changes. If ZOS were able to articulate why these changes are being made in the context of their longer plan for balance between the classes, it might reduce some of the angst and cut down on those posts you hate so much.There will still be whiners, but at least some of us would have faith that this game will get better in the near to mid future. As it currently stands, I feel like the next several updates we get will just be wasted trying to balance out these changes they're implementing with Murkmire.

WoppaBoem

Because this game is for more players than just sorcs. It is a community with a lot of diversity you have tunnel vision and only see yourself. I like the changes very much, thank you ZOS

usmguy1234

Turelus wrote: »

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

The word "development" is grossly misused here in my opinion. Development carries with it a sense of betterment. I would say that the game being better both performance wise and balance wise is heading in the wrong direction.

Turelus

Sygil05 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

Turelus ,

I agree that it would be stupid to run the game based only on player feedback and opinions, and that the Devs/ZOS are free to do as they please until the game is turned off. Of course, that's not what the OP asked for, and isn't a tangent we need to go down.

There are some pretty drastic changes being implemented in this patch, and based on the excessive number of redundant posts (that you have specifically complained about in a different thread), a not insignificant number of players are seriously unhappy with the upcoming changes. If ZOS were able to articulate why these changes are being made in the context of their longer plan for balance between the classes, it might reduce some of the angst and cut down on those posts you hate so much.There will still be whiners, but at least some of us would have faith that this game will get better in the near to mid future. As it currently stands, I feel like the next several updates we get will just be wasted trying to balance out these changes they're implementing with Murkmire.

I get it and I understand why people are frustrated, however this idea that ZOS doesn't listen or that they need to listen to everything said (then act on it) isn't the reality of this games development.
As I said in another thread a moment ago, whatever ZOS did with shields* this was going to happen. However they did in some part listen, if they didn't we would have one second cast times right now.

I've said many times I want a road ahead/dev diary for each update regarding balance, we for a short time had the combat team updates (now the class rep updates), but we have what we have. If we want to encourage better communication and discord with ZOS on issues we need to stop the toxic, hateful posting every change that's made.
Until then we only have the channels we have which is threads to post as well as we can and the class reps.
* whilst there are other changes that have upset people I feel this one is the biggest cause.

As for the actual 65 pages let's take a look at page 1.

Feanor wrote: »

Thank you ZOS. You made it much easier to play anything else instead of Sorc next patch.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435669/rip-my-beloved-sorc

Feanor wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Great changes tbh. The shield stacking has gotten out of control.....

It’s quite ironic seeing a stamNB receiving even more buffs and thinking it’s great other classes get huge nerfs.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

This gotta be the worst nerfs Ive seen to a class since 1.6.

Ankael07 wrote: »

Whats the point of providing feedback when the next changes will be nonsense anyway. Cast time for hardened ward? No Overload bar? Im speechless

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Does anyone know who the sorcerer class rep is? I would love to hear their thoughts on these changes and why they happened.

ezio45 wrote: »

Where is the cast time on cloak ZOS_Wrobel

ezio45 wrote: »

I dont even care whats in these patch notes, im done. Unsub'ing and quitting.

This is complete bs.... zos has destroyed my class and i just dont care any more, I really dont

gepe87 wrote: »

Not even a streak or blast rework.

Witar wrote: »

WTF, zos? 1 second cast time to harness? Crits on shields? Are you f*king kidding? THAT is not balance.
Also changes to overload will completely destroy overload gankers. You want everyone to play stamina or something?

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

When you look at the class tool kit of a Stamden or Stamblade, it's like ZoS doesn't even know StamSorc exists.

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Indeed worst patch for sorc, adding cast time to shield ability has simply kill light armor use in pvp

Congrats, ZOS team for this failure.

Was just thinking how a heavy magplar sounds so much better right now. Spot on. Light armor will die death in any PvP[/quote]

JamieAubrey wrote: »

This is going to be a great thread, grabs popcorn

12/31 posts added nothing to the conversation or lacked any kind of helpful feedback (note I was generous and let some of the one's saying it's a bad idea off, as they added some extra reasons why)
That 65 page thread has a lot of useless bloat is all I am saying.

MalagenR

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Because this game is for more players than just sorcs. It is a community with a lot of diversity you have tunnel vision and only see yourself. I like the changes very much, thank you ZOS

65 pages of Feedback is not me having tunnel vision. Do you have depth perception?

MalagenR

Turelus wrote: »

Sygil05 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

Turelus ,

I agree that it would be stupid to run the game based only on player feedback and opinions, and that the Devs/ZOS are free to do as they please until the game is turned off. Of course, that's not what the OP asked for, and isn't a tangent we need to go down.

There are some pretty drastic changes being implemented in this patch, and based on the excessive number of redundant posts (that you have specifically complained about in a different thread), a not insignificant number of players are seriously unhappy with the upcoming changes. If ZOS were able to articulate why these changes are being made in the context of their longer plan for balance between the classes, it might reduce some of the angst and cut down on those posts you hate so much.There will still be whiners, but at least some of us would have faith that this game will get better in the near to mid future. As it currently stands, I feel like the next several updates we get will just be wasted trying to balance out these changes they're implementing with Murkmire.

I get it and I understand why people are frustrated, however this idea that ZOS doesn't listen or that they need to listen to everything said (then act on it) isn't the reality of this games development.
As I said in another thread a moment ago, whatever ZOS did with shields* this was going to happen. However they did in some part listen, if they didn't we would have one second cast times right now.

I've said many times I want a road ahead/dev diary for each update regarding balance, we for a short time had the combat team updates (now the class rep updates), but we have what we have. If we want to encourage better communication and discord with ZOS on issues we need to stop the toxic, hateful posting every change that's made.
Until then we only have the channels we have which is threads to post as well as we can and the class reps.
* whilst there are other changes that have upset people I feel this one is the biggest cause.

As for the actual 65 pages let's take a look at page 1.

Feanor wrote: »

Thank you ZOS. You made it much easier to play anything else instead of Sorc next patch.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435669/rip-my-beloved-sorc

Feanor wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Great changes tbh. The shield stacking has gotten out of control.....

It’s quite ironic seeing a stamNB receiving even more buffs and thinking it’s great other classes get huge nerfs.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

This gotta be the worst nerfs Ive seen to a class since 1.6.

Ankael07 wrote: »

Whats the point of providing feedback when the next changes will be nonsense anyway. Cast time for hardened ward? No Overload bar? Im speechless

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Does anyone know who the sorcerer class rep is? I would love to hear their thoughts on these changes and why they happened.

ezio45 wrote: »

Where is the cast time on cloak ZOS_Wrobel

ezio45 wrote: »

I dont even care whats in these patch notes, im done. Unsub'ing and quitting.

This is complete bs.... zos has destroyed my class and i just dont care any more, I really dont

gepe87 wrote: »

Not even a streak or blast rework.

Witar wrote: »

WTF, zos? 1 second cast time to harness? Crits on shields? Are you f*king kidding? THAT is not balance.
Also changes to overload will completely destroy overload gankers. You want everyone to play stamina or something?

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

When you look at the class tool kit of a Stamden or Stamblade, it's like ZoS doesn't even know StamSorc exists.

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Indeed worst patch for sorc, adding cast time to shield ability has simply kill light armor use in pvp

Congrats, ZOS team for this failure.

Was just thinking how a heavy magplar sounds so much better right now. Spot on. Light armor will die death in any PvP

JamieAubrey wrote: »

This is going to be a great thread, grabs popcorn

12/31 posts added nothing to the conversation or lacked any kind of helpful feedback (note I was generous and let some of the one's saying it's a bad idea off, as they added some extra reasons why)
That 65 page thread has a lot of useless bloat is all I am saying.[/quote]

Every single post thread has useful bloat in it, go read the NB 8 page discussion. You're seriously downplaying 65 pages of replies, which is almost 6 or 7 times more than the other classes. To pretend like this isn't a big deal, shame on you.

MalagenR

Turelus wrote: »

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

Note, I didn't ask for any specific changes. I asked for an explanation from ZOS on how they could ignore overwhelming feedback from their community. The Sorc feedback thread almost has more pages than any currently existing thread on these forums. Why are we pretending like that isn't a big deal?

Joy_Division

MalagenR wrote: »

The title basically says it all - it's clear our feedback thread has the largest number of posts by far in the history of ESO, while you can't assume the cause for this is specifically the changes being made by developers to the Sorc class in Murkmire patch, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the customers deserve more responses from ZOS due to the strong correlation between the changes they decided to implement, and the overall reaction of the customer to those changes.

Is it not reasonable for us as customers to get a serious explanation as to why these changes are still being implemented when the feedback provided correlates to the fact that this might be a disastrous change?

OK, if I a rep wanted to report your pain points, I would not know where to begin because you just sound pissed off. About what?

I read a lot of that 65 page thread (which, btw, is not the longest thread in history. This templar thread was) and a lot of it was on a topic that is no longer relevant: cast-time on shields.

But to be more speicfic, unlike previously mentioned templar thread, in which ZOS responded by doing nothing, ZOS did make adjustments:

• Shields no longer have a cast time
• My shield is larger in PvP
• Frag damage nerf got reverted
• Dark Exchange was improved

I am the farthest thing from a "white knight," but, hmm, ZOS didn't ignore the feedback. In fact, my sorcerer is better in this patch than it was in the previous one in the only realm that I really care about (PvP). As for its shields in PvE, yes they are weaker, but you don't need a 20K single shield to do PvE content: last night I ran vMA to get the Dremora skull thing and I received my highest score ever despite not having run that content in like 6 months.

So, what from that 65 page thread needs to be addressed? I'm not being snarky, it's a legit question because my issues with sorcerer as they stand now (Rune cgae still a dumb skill, Crystal blast useless, class gives very little to stam players, boundless storm is pathetic, streak gives me whiplash, etc.) have all been outstanding long before the Murkmire PTS came online.

I have heard that pets dying is an issue, where are they dying? I guess for inexperienced vMA, but that's easily fixable to addd that arena to the 0 damage content. Where else? Don't tell me while questing in Murkmire...

Sandman929

MalagenR wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

Note, I didn't ask for any specific changes. I asked for an explanation from ZOS on how they could ignore overwhelming feedback from their community. The Sorc feedback thread almost has more pages than any currently existing thread on these forums. Why are we pretending like that isn't a big deal?

Is there any explanation that would suffice? Any further developer comment that would stop another 20-30 pages of "NO NO NO NO NO!"? There are some explanations in the patch notes about bringing shields in line with other game mechanics and to make them useful tools for certain playstyles rather than primary mitigation, but those explanations (and probably any further elaboration) are just going to be met with scoffing and hyperbole.

Malem_Benign

Turelus wrote: »

Sygil05 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Because at the end of the day, players are not the ones developing the game and ZOS can go in the direction they wish or carry on with controversial changes they want to see implemented.

The most we can do as customers is provide them with constructive feedback and solutions which might be better suited, however they're not ever beholden to our wishes and desires.

That's not how MMO game development works, and in the games I have played at least once I've heard devs agree that the times they work only on player feedback and opinions it's generally not worked out better for the game.
This isn't to say that all players are wrong and shouldn't be listened to, but for every opinion on something there will be a counter view and opinion. Without having things backed up with evidence or using internal statistics game balance on players whims would be a disaster.

Turelus ,

I agree that it would be stupid to run the game based only on player feedback and opinions, and that the Devs/ZOS are free to do as they please until the game is turned off. Of course, that's not what the OP asked for, and isn't a tangent we need to go down.

There are some pretty drastic changes being implemented in this patch, and based on the excessive number of redundant posts (that you have specifically complained about in a different thread), a not insignificant number of players are seriously unhappy with the upcoming changes. If ZOS were able to articulate why these changes are being made in the context of their longer plan for balance between the classes, it might reduce some of the angst and cut down on those posts you hate so much.There will still be whiners, but at least some of us would have faith that this game will get better in the near to mid future. As it currently stands, I feel like the next several updates we get will just be wasted trying to balance out these changes they're implementing with Murkmire.

I get it and I understand why people are frustrated, however this idea that ZOS doesn't listen or that they need to listen to everything said (then act on it) isn't the reality of this games development.
As I said in another thread a moment ago, whatever ZOS did with shields* this was going to happen. However they did in some part listen, if they didn't we would have one second cast times right now.

I've said many times I want a road ahead/dev diary for each update regarding balance, we for a short time had the combat team updates (now the class rep updates), but we have what we have. If we want to encourage better communication and discord with ZOS on issues we need to stop the toxic, hateful posting every change that's made.
Until then we only have the channels we have which is threads to post as well as we can and the class reps.
* whilst there are other changes that have upset people I feel this one is the biggest cause.

As for the actual 65 pages let's take a look at page 1.

Feanor wrote: »

Thank you ZOS. You made it much easier to play anything else instead of Sorc next patch.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435669/rip-my-beloved-sorc

Feanor wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Great changes tbh. The shield stacking has gotten out of control.....

It’s quite ironic seeing a stamNB receiving even more buffs and thinking it’s great other classes get huge nerfs.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

This gotta be the worst nerfs Ive seen to a class since 1.6.

Ankael07 wrote: »

Whats the point of providing feedback when the next changes will be nonsense anyway. Cast time for hardened ward? No Overload bar? Im speechless

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Does anyone know who the sorcerer class rep is? I would love to hear their thoughts on these changes and why they happened.

ezio45 wrote: »

Where is the cast time on cloak ZOS_Wrobel

ezio45 wrote: »

I dont even care whats in these patch notes, im done. Unsub'ing and quitting.

This is complete bs.... zos has destroyed my class and i just dont care any more, I really dont

gepe87 wrote: »

Not even a streak or blast rework.

Witar wrote: »

WTF, zos? 1 second cast time to harness? Crits on shields? Are you f*king kidding? THAT is not balance.
Also changes to overload will completely destroy overload gankers. You want everyone to play stamina or something?

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

When you look at the class tool kit of a Stamden or Stamblade, it's like ZoS doesn't even know StamSorc exists.

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Indeed worst patch for sorc, adding cast time to shield ability has simply kill light armor use in pvp

Congrats, ZOS team for this failure.

Was just thinking how a heavy magplar sounds so much better right now. Spot on. Light armor will die death in any PvP

JamieAubrey wrote: »

This is going to be a great thread, grabs popcorn

12/31 posts added nothing to the conversation or lacked any kind of helpful feedback (note I was generous and let some of the one's saying it's a bad idea off, as they added some extra reasons why)
That 65 page thread has a lot of useless bloat is all I am saying.[/quote]

What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?

And btw. What the inverted view? Let's say your gov comes and say: "From now you will receive 40% of initial water only, that's for good, trust us." Are you sure that's the reasonable way to argue on that topic is to argue on the neccesity to drink? Or you have to drop or to argue about the reasonable percentage? Let's say not 40%, let's say 50%! Ok? Ok! Hoorrray!

Maybe there is another way? Maybe it's the gov who should convince ppl? Trying to say that guys, our planet is almost dead, we have to reduce the water consumption, otherwise everyone will be dead. Here are the maths, statistics and charts.

Or maybe it's just a reckless or greedy fake to fulfill someones unreasonable wishes? And then you probably should leave this state or vive la revolution?

susmitds

Any nerf to the most casual class will always be met with negative player feedback. If devs were to listen to whiners, no OP spec will ever be nerfed.

Turelus

Malem_Benign wrote: »

What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?

Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

Malem_Benign

Turelus wrote: »

Malem_Benign wrote: »

What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?

Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

Already posted above the allegory.

In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?

Turelus

Malem_Benign wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Malem_Benign wrote: »

What kind of helpful feedback do you need? Isn't 65 pages flame over the upcoming change a feedback itself?

Whilst 65 pages of flame is still feedback, but it's not useful feed back. "This change bad, no like this change" doesn't help ZOS make a change you do like.
Not every post in there was bad, some were really well structured and provided good feedback and examples, but there was a lot of bloat per page of feedback that just said "this is bad" which doesn't help understand why it's bad.

It's like screaming at the decorators you don't like the colour of the walls, but never actually saying what colour you want them painted.

Already posted above the allegory.

In yours - the question is not the color, but why you want to repaint that wall, that stands here 4 years and looks fine.
Bored? No other walls with scratches and cracks to repair?

The landlord decided that work needed to be done on the wall to correct some structural mistakes.